Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: Skippernick on 14 February 2015, 04:07:30 pm
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Just passed MOT with an advisory for low front brake pads.
Now these are the originals so time for some decent ones.
What is the order of brake pads? 1. Sintered 2. Ceramic 3. Organic.
Organic are dusty and soft, I Know.
Ceramic are good power but not dusty?
Sintered are the ones that chew disc's but lots of stopping power?
Is my understanding correct?
Please advise and recommend with links.
Thanks Guys.
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OE are good but they are rather pricey.
Go for SBS they bite harder than OE and have very good wear rate way better than anything else out there in my opinion you need, 634 HS*
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Yes your understanding is correct, or at least it's the same as mine!
No intention of turning this into a which is better thread, but of all the pads I've gone through over the miles ferodo's platinum pads are my favourite, mainly because their performance in the wet is on par with the dry (which is good enough for track use!)
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I am very satisified with EBC HH-s.
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I've got sbs ceramic pads and they've been great wet and dry.
Hated the ebc pads I tried, organic ones were far too dusty and the HH sintered ones had no feel and started chewing through the discs at a rather alarming rate.
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Galfer, on Ebay, brilliant on the front, easy on the discs and just don't seem to wear out at all?
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dare i say it, ive always used cheap £8 brake pads and had no real issue, not changed pads on the fazer yet though.
they last a fair amount of time and stop pretty well.
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Anything but Armstrong pads which are basically blocks of wood, I like SBS but normally fit EBC HH because they are easy to obtain and thats what I stock on the shelf in the shop.
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EBC were good up until they were bought out sometime in the early 00's. Compared to SBS or OE they lack initial bite, have a wooden feel to them, are very hard on dics and wear fast, they are easy to get hold of and tend to be cheaper than most others.
They're other makes available but in terms of outright performance like for like there's nothing in it this side of a track. It's about how they feel and wear over the years I've fitted just about all that's available and in my opinion SBS are the best closely followed by OE.
One man's poison and all that!
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I am tempted by TRW pads at the moment with the deals getting offered to me by my supplier, I might have to try a set soon
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I am tempted by TRW pads at the moment with the deals getting offered to me by my supplier, I might have to try a set soon
Made by Lucas big in the US, I know of a few who have tried them mostly on track bikes. The feed back I have is there are about the same as EBC but cheaper they wear quick and eat discs :eek
Nearly all have gone back to Bendix or SBS probably race pads (please don't fit race pads to road bikes it will end in :'() not the best comparison track V's road but you still get a good idea of feel and comparisons of wear.
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Thanks guys.
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Ive got carbone Lorraine A3+ shintered in mine put them in when I put stainless braided hoses on in 2008 and I chose them from advice on this forum--- so was that a mistake are they eating my discs, can anyone tell me anything about them as no one has mentioned them in this post
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Ive got carbone Lorraine A3+ shintered in mine put them in when I put stainless braided hoses on in 2008 and I chose them from advice on this forum--- so was that a mistake are they eating my discs, can anyone tell me anything about them as no one has mentioned them in this post
Erm, shouldn't it be you telling us?
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Ive got carbone Lorraine A3+ shintered in mine put them in when I put stainless braided hoses on in 2008 and I chose them from advice on this forum--- so was that a mistake are they eating my discs, can anyone tell me anything about them as no one has mentioned them in this post
No there were the bench mark pad and are top notch, but they were expensive almost as much as OE! For some unknown reason they have stopped being made or imported for bikes the sole importer now only deals in car applications, perhaps it was the price I don't know.
You can still get old stock but this tends to be for rear pads or the less common bikes for the fronts.
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I just stuck them in after reading hear but that was in 08 and I cant remember what was said. They work, they stop me when I pull the leaver that is about all I can tell you.
Its just it got me to thinking when I read here people saying that shintered eat your disks or is it just the EBC HH ones.
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Ive got carbone Lorraine A3+ shintered in mine put them in when I put stainless braided hoses on in 2008 and I chose them from advice on this forum--- so was that a mistake are they eating my discs, can anyone tell me anything about them as no one has mentioned them in this post
No there were the bench mark pad and are top notch, but they were expensive almost as much as OE! For some unknown reason they have stopped being made or imported for bikes the sole importer now only deals in car applications, perhaps it was the price I don't know.
You can still get old stock but this tends to be for rear pads or the less common bikes for the fronts.
Thank you that is the kind of info I was looking for.
I have always had the principle that I dont do footbal or golf or anything else and the bike is for fun only and is not my comute bike that I have to make pay so I dont mind paying out for the best stuff.
I was wondering why no one has mentioned them - cause you cant get em now then
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Yes your understanding is correct, or at least it's the same as mine!
No intention of turning this into a which is better thread, but of all the pads I've gone through over the miles ferodo's platinum pads are my favourite, mainly because their performance in the wet is on par with the dry (which is good enough for track use!)
Punk, can't find these for my bike on flea bay, or do you get them form another source?
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I just stuck them in after reading hear but that was in 08 and I cant remember what was said. They work, they stop me when I pull the leaver that is about all I can tell you.
Its just it got me to thinking when I read here people saying that shintered eat your disks or is it just the EBC HH ones.
It's sintered mate, shintered is what Sean Connery has on his bike. :lol
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I just stuck them in after reading hear but that was in 08 and I cant remember what was said. They work, they stop me when I pull the leaver that is about all I can tell you.
Its just it got me to thinking when I read here people saying that shintered eat your disks or is it just the EBC HH ones.
It's sintered mate, shintered is what Sean Connery has on his bike. :lol
:rollin
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Been usind Bendix MF pads for a while now on a couple of my bikes. They have excellent feel from cold, and I've not managed to fade the brakes yet. Also they have never let me down in the wet.
A little cheaper than EBC, and perform as good, if not better from cold.
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Brake pads are like tyres on that the choice is dependent on the type of riding you do. A weekend warrior that rags the bike hard on dry roads will have very different needs from the pads than a commuter who rides through all weather's.
A very general way of looking at it is:
Organic - best in dry conditions, dusty but low wear on your discs. Not great in the wet, so generally not a great choice for all weather riders.
Sintered, not as good from cold but good once warm and much better in the wet than organic. Higher wear rate on discs.
The brands etc will always split people just like tyre choice, so it's almost a case of trying them out to find what you like.
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Brake pads are like tyres on that the choice is dependent on the type of riding you do. A weekend warrior that rags the bike hard on dry roads will have very different needs from the pads than a commuter who rides through all weather's.
A very general way of looking at it is:
Organic - best in dry conditions, dusty but low wear on your discs. Not great in the wet, so generally not a great choice for all weather riders.
Sintered, not as good from cold but good once warm and much better in the wet than organic. Higher wear rate on discs.
The brands etc will always split people just like tyre choice, so it's almost a case of trying them out to find what you like.
Don't forget ceramic and semi metallic.
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Keeping it simple ;)
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Best I've ever used were Carbone Lorraine. They've got loads on eBay, just search FZS600 Carbone Lorraine. It's the blue ones you want (their road spec).
I've been running them for a while interspersed with the occasional other brand and they've always been the best, am about to try brembos though just to see what they're like!
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Brake pads are like tyres on that the choice is dependent on the type of riding you do. A weekend warrior that rags the bike hard on dry roads will have very different needs from the pads than a commuter who rides through all weather's.
A very general way of looking at it is:
Organic - best in dry conditions, dusty but low wear on your discs. Not great in the wet, so generally not a great choice for all weather riders.
Sintered, not as good from cold but good once warm and much better in the wet than organic. Higher wear rate on discs.
The brands etc will always split people just like tyre choice, so it's almost a case of trying them out to find what you like.
Interesting where did you get this information from?
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Experience, talking to others, internet research.
It's a hugely summarised explanation, as I say its like telling someone which tyre to use.
As a 'standard' pad I'd always go sintered as these are the best for 'all round' use. Organic no good in wet, ceramic designed for higher temperatures (higher speeds or track use).
Lots of variables and personal favourite brands to chose from though.
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Keeping it simple ;)
Keeping what simple?
There's at least 4 types of pad available but you only mentioned 2.
Just so happens I have ceramic SBS on the rear, and Galfer semi metallic on the front, so you missed me out completely! :'(
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A very general way of looking at it is:
Organic - best in dry conditions, dusty but low wear on your discs. Not great in the wet, so generally not a great choice for all weather riders.
Sorry matey but no, organic are the old traditional pre sintered material give or take they are cheaper and perform well below sintered pads in all and any conditions. They are fitted to rear brakes and sold for commuting, everyday stuff, big users are despatch riders using mainly mid size lower powered workhorse bikes, some use higher powered and larger bikes but still fit organic for cost reason, as they go through them at a rate. One bike I looked after would go through 9 sets a year, most bikes used in this way will go through about 4 sets depending on mileage and riders. Of course they work, before the introduction of sintered material in the mid 80's all bikes had them as OE it was pretty much all you could get. This type of material is not suitable for most road bikes now sold, especially sports and bikes with mono block or radial calipers, plus sintered material is so much better why would you fit organic. It's just price.
Sintered, not as good from cold but good once warm and much better in the wet than organic. Higher wear rate on discs.
No, sintered will work in all conditions out performing any other material in road applications especially from cold. Yes compared to organic material they will wear a discs faster due to higher fraction rates but the brake performance is hugely increased for slightly increased wear. Some manufactures sintered pad compounds (EBC for one) do wear the discs faster than others and they don't perform as well but that's just how it is, they still out perform organic. Also not all sintered pads are the same they are rated eg FF, GG or HH etc as OE the pads in mono block Fazers are GG.
ceramic designed for higher temperatures (higher speeds or track use).
Yes and no.
Yes, ceramic material can take more heat but not in pad material application i.e. ceramic pads that are sold in this guise they are designed for low dust, noise, wear, with polished or decorated discs and where they are to stop heavy but low performance bikes say older Harleys.
No, a true ceramic pad will not out perform a sintered marital in a road application on most bikes.
But when ceramic is mixed with sintered material you get race pads these are designed to work at constant extreme temperatures with steal discs only experienced in tack applications. The sintered material gives you the bite as the brake is applied and the ceramic hold it all together as the heat builds up during prolonged and constant brake applications. These pads come in different grades to suit different types of track, long, short or some short road circuits, long road circuits (IofM) sintered are fitted due to the lengths between corners and brake application plus the potential constant changes in road/weather conditions, but on all circuits if it's a wet race they fit....................... yep you guessed sintered.
These type of pads are not suitable for any road application regardless the type of bike, to work they require constant heat road will not give you these levels of heat. You grab a handful and there's nothing there :eek :eek :eek :'( I kid you not!
What you need to be careful of is manufactures calling mixed material just ceramic most ceramic pads sold in the UK have a level of either organic or sinter material in them Bendix for one. Or where they give a type it's own name
Just so happens I have ceramic SBS on the rear, and Galfer semi metallic on the front, so you missed me out completely! :'(
SBS ceramic outside the US is a mix of sintered or organic, Galfer is just using their word for sintered as sintered is a metallic mix.
There is 4 main types of pad organic, ceramic/mix, sintered and sintered/ceramic/carbon, there are many more for particular applications such as mud/water etc but they are all a combination of the the main 4.
Then of course there's carbon carbon but at 6k plus for a disc and 3k plus for a set of pads don’t confuse these with ceramic mixtrix compound types you can get form some specialist race suppliers. I don't think will be seeing carbon carbon on road bikes anytime soon, most race teams this side of GP's can't afford them.
so it's almost a case of trying them out to find what you like.
To a point yes, except what I've said above certain material does work better than others, the choice is who's do you want to use.
In my experience brake performance is like eyesight you slowly loose it and it's not until you get it checked you realise just how much they can deteriorate. Over the years I've serviced 1000's of bike brakes many of the old members of this forum (we are all getting older lol) some of the bikes I've ridden before I worked on the brakes were frightening. I often got owners to ride mine for comparison those that did didn't realise just how good the Fazer brake can be.
The clue with pads is what did the manufacturer if as OE? In the Fazer and most bikes these days it's...............sintered some like the Fazer have organic rears.
But like you say Fazafou it's your choice.
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Well said and well put! Gnasher :thumbup :thumbup
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So my carbone Lorraine A3+ shintered are good then yeh ?. ( cause if they are good enough for sean connery then they are good enough for me)
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Bugger me, wasn't expecting so many replies. My head hurts now and i still don't know what to go for.
So are the OE pads sintered then?
Which means i want similar.
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Yes matey they are rated GG.
As I said earlier you wont regret it.
OE are good but they are rather pricey.
Go for SBS they bite harder than OE and have very good wear rate way better than anything else out there in my opinion you need, 634 HS*
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Sorry matey but no,
I'll just agree to disagree with some of that, but most is true, but as I said I was hugely generalising to avoid a post becoming immense ;)
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Gnasher's bit above - brilliant, I picked up a couple of bits there :thumbup
a couple of months ago having done a bit of reading and looking at previous posts on here I took what I hoped was an educated guess and went for these Galfer G1054 compound ones for both the front and back. [People mention Galfer but don't often mention which composition] these are 'semi-metallic' aka sintered
Calsport seem determined to call them 'HH' but galfer site says they are 'GG' friction rated, I still have the packets at home & will try and remember to have a look .... either way I find them very good and better than what was in before especially from a cold wet start and very predictable. My old ones were shit while wet.
I have only done a couple of hundred miles (Guernsey's a small island :\ ) so I can't speek for their longivety, but Darrsi has praised them in that regard many times and says they are kind to the rotors aswell.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151375523636?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT#ht_2646wt_1083 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151375523636?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT#ht_2646wt_1083)
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151349650076?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT#ht_2594wt_1083 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151349650076?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT#ht_2594wt_1083)
There is a comparison of Galfers compounds
http://www.galfer.eu/index.php/en/products-moto-eng/brake-pads (http://www.galfer.eu/index.php/en/products-moto-eng/brake-pads)
and a bit of the blurb :-
'The 1054 compound is the workhorse of the Galfer brake pad family. It offers progressive feel and feedback and is GG rated which makes it a great all round brake pad. This compound is available for front and rear calipers'
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I use EBC organic front and rear. I ride every day and do greater than average mileage and find that the organics are quite kind to the discs.
For a track day/racing/pub bullshitting etc I would choose something else ;)
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Gnasher's bit above - brilliant, I picked up a couple of bits there :thumbup
a couple of months ago having done a bit of reading and looking at previous posts on here I took what I hoped was an educated guess and went for these Galfer G1054 compound ones for both the front and back. [People mention Galfer but don't often mention which composition] these are 'semi-metallic' aka sintered
Calsport seem determined to call them 'HH' but galfer site says they are 'GG' friction rated, I still have the packets at home & will try and remember to have a look .... either way I find them very good and better than what was in before especially from a cold wet start and very predictable. My old ones were shit while wet.
I have only done a couple of hundred miles (Guernsey's a small island :\ ) so I can't speek for their longivety, but Darrsi has praised them in that regard many times and says they are kind to the rotors aswell.
[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151375523636?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT#ht_2646wt_1083[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151375523636?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT#ht_2646wt_1083[/url])
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[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151349650076?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT#ht_2594wt_1083[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151349650076?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT#ht_2594wt_1083[/url])
There is a comparison of Galfers compounds
[url]http://www.galfer.eu/index.php/en/products-moto-eng/brake-pads[/url] ([url]http://www.galfer.eu/index.php/en/products-moto-eng/brake-pads[/url])
and a bit of the blurb :-
'The 1054 compound is the workhorse of the Galfer brake pad family. It offers progressive feel and feedback and is GG rated which makes it a great all round brake pad. This compound is available for front and rear calipers'
They're an absolute steal at that price, and they just don't seem to wear out, or do anything to the discs. :thumbup
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Ok so after reading the thread about brake pads I thought I'd try some of the galfer 1054 pads. G1375 is what has arrived which is described as a ceramic sintered pad. Does anyone have any experience of these pads should I keep them or send them back. I'm fairly light on my brakes and from what I've read the ceramics need to be hot to work at their best. Or am I paranoid again
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Looks like they're designed for heavy braking on the track, I would try and get them swapped.
http://www.galferusa.com/brake-pads-street-sport-racing-motorcycles/ (http://www.galferusa.com/brake-pads-street-sport-racing-motorcycles/)
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Ok so after reading the thread about brake pads I thought I'd try some of the galfer 1054 pads. G1375 is what has arrived which is described as a ceramic sintered pad.
Send them back they are not for road use they will lack bite and feel in everyday use especially in the wet!
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Thanks I'll contact the seller to send them back or get them swapped
Cheers
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Contacted calsport1 who said they were out of stock and sent a substitute at no extra cost. I asked for a refund and they have been very good, the speed of their response was outstanding. I will reorder from them once they are in stock again.
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Contacted calsport1 who said they were out of stock and sent a substitute at no extra cost. I asked for a refund and they have been very good, the speed of their response was outstanding. I will reorder from them once they are in stock again.
I want to give these pads ago is calsport1 the ebay seller?
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Contacted calsport1 who said they were out of stock and sent a substitute at no extra cost. I asked for a refund and they have been very good, the speed of their response was outstanding. I will reorder from them once they are in stock again.
I want to give these pads ago is calsport1 the ebay seller?
Calsport have a website selling stuff at normal (expensive) prices, but sell a lot of gear at decent discount prices on Ebay?
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Yes calsport1 was the eBay seller. I followed the link posted earlier by ebme geek post 35 I think .
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Sorry, my question mark was 'why' they sell stuff so cheap.
It's good gear. :)