Author Topic: cam chain tool (Read 11113 times)

His Dudeness · « **on:** 23 August 2012, 12:32:53 am »

Hey. I was wondering if anyone has replaced a cam chain what riveting tool did you use? Thanks

red98 · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 August 2012, 03:36:27 pm »

reading the haynes manual,the thundercat has a split link

cant see why i would not work on the fazer

His Dudeness · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 August 2012, 11:24:55 pm »

would probably work but i just wouldn't trust a split link

red98 · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 August 2012, 06:47:23 am »

Quote from: His Dudeness on 23 August 2012, 11:24:55 pm

would probably work but i just wouldn't trust a split link

yes ..i know what you mean......going back a few years,hondas twin cylinder cb 500 had a link,and i know of a few that failed

........but never heard of one failing on the thundercat

griff86 · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 August 2012, 07:31:42 am »

I used a split link camchain on my 1st mk1, no probs on it after 20,000miles when I sold it.

I used my chain tool which came with smaller pins to press the cam chain together, will be doing it again to my latest mk1.

'Just to edit this I mean't to say the chain I used was an endless chain that I had to riveted together not a split link type'

His Dudeness · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 August 2012, 11:01:09 am »

nice one griff. any chance you could stick up a link to the riveter you used?

griff86 · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 August 2012, 07:09:43 pm »

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-Chain-Heavy-Duty-Breaker-Riveter-Riveting-Tool-Kit-420-532-Chains-/200785291675?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2ebfbc699b

This is the one I have. It doesn't come with instructions but it almost identical to the Motion Pro chain tool so I downloaded their instructions.

His Dudeness · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 August 2012, 01:23:23 pm »

I'll probably get that one thanks

. Would you have any tips on riveting the link or replacing the cam chain in general?

red98 · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 August 2012, 09:21:20 pm »

with the split link in place you will be able to take the head off with out taking the cams out

the cams have access holes in them to reach the head bolts

same as the thunder cat

griff86 · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 August 2012, 06:41:47 pm »

I wouldn't take the head off to do it, another £60 on top of the job to replace the head gasket.

Its quite an easy job if you take ur time with it.

When the cams are off and the cam chain is split I reattatch the the new cam chain to the old one and feed it through the engine then rivet the new chain together. I find this is the easiest way to make sure the chain goes all the way round the bottom sprocket.

Just to see how much the old chain has stretched I measure the new one on a bench before fitting then compare that to the old one.

As for the tool link, I think this one is better,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CHAIN-LINK-SPLITTER-RIVETER-TOOL-HEAVY-DUTY-/390357102833?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5ae318b0f1

red98 · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 August 2012, 08:05:50 pm »

Quote from: griff86 on 27 August 2012, 06:41:47 pm

I wouldn't take the head off to do it, another £60 on top of the job to replace the head gasket.

Its quite an easy job if you take ur time with it.

When the cams are off and the cam chain is split I reattatch the the new cam chain to the old one and feed it through the engine then rivet the new chain together. I find this is the easiest way to make sure the chain goes all the way round the bottom sprocket.

Just to see how much the old chain has stretched I measure the new one on a bench before fitting then compare that to the old one.

As for the tool link, I think this one is better,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CHAIN-LINK-SPLITTER-RIVETER-TOOL-HEAVY-DUTY-/390357102833?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5ae318b0f1

thought i would mention the fact that you could take the head off if you had a split link in the chain....an added bonus

the way you have described how to replace the chain is indeed the best way,no need to remove the head

[size=78%]......think you could do it with the cams in place as well if you slide out the front chain tensioner [/size]

His Dudeness · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 August 2012, 10:17:15 pm »

yeah just doing the chain for now. its hard to know which riveter to get because there's quite a few different types and the prices vary quite a bit

Deefer666 · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 August 2012, 08:25:11 am »

I personally would never (and have never) used a split chain.... way too risky and to me it seems almost a botched job done that way.

His Dudeness · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 August 2012, 03:37:00 pm »

Quote from: Deefer666 on 28 August 2012, 08:25:11 am

I personally would never (and have never) used a split chain.... way too risky and to me it seems almost a botched job done that way.

when you say you wouldn't use a split link would you include a riveted link as well?

griff86 · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 August 2012, 08:45:37 pm »

I think what Deefer does(from what I've read on here)is to split the engine and fit an endless chain like the way it gets done in the factory, gives you the chance to check other parts of the engine are within tolerence.

His Dudeness · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 August 2012, 02:30:51 pm »

Quote from: griff86 on 28 August 2012, 08:45:37 pm

I think what Deefer does(from what I've read on here)is to split the engine and fit an endless chain like the way it gets done in the factory, gives you the chance to check other parts of the engine are within tolerence.

ah yeah i know. im not really setup for a full engine rebulid. i think most people use a riveted chain

Bias · « **Reply #16 on:** 02 September 2012, 12:38:41 am »

Thought I'd jump in here as Ive just replaced my cam chain using a splitter/riveter like the one linked above.

It took me about 6 hours from taking the tank off to restarting the engine. The DID chain came pre split with a soft link rivet and the installation was painless. I did have help from my younger son, but only to help keep the new chain taut as it was fed down the front of the engine as I turned the engine over and pulled the old chain out the rear. It only took about 5 mins to actually do the rivetting.

I did consider a total engine split but decided against it purely cos of the amount of hassle involved.
I measured the new chain length prior to fitting and it turned out to be 3mm shorter than the old one. It may not sound a hell of a lot but the difference was instantly noticable as I started the bike. It purred rather than rattled and I counted the clicks on the CCT as it tightened the chain so I know theres a good few left.

I'd happily use a split chain again with a soft link

markbubble · « **Reply #17 on:** 02 September 2012, 06:38:39 am »

my pal who races bikes(mostly fzr 400s) says if you thrashing the engine only use an endless chain or if you are doing a total engine rebuild put an endless one in but for the average rider who doesnt go redline the bike everywhere a soft link should be fine,he says never at all use a split link in the chain !

griff86 · « **Reply #18 on:** 02 September 2012, 07:48:40 am »

Quote from: Bias on 02 September 2012, 12:38:41 am

Thought I'd jump in here as Ive just replaced my cam chain using a splitter/riveter like the one linked above.

It took me about 6 hours from taking the tank off to restarting the engine. The DID chain came pre split with a soft link rivet and the installation was painless. I did have help from my younger son, but only to help keep the new chain taut as it was fed down the front of the engine as I turned the engine over and pulled the old chain out the rear. It only took about 5 mins to actually do the rivetting.

I did consider a total engine split but decided against it purely cos of the amount of hassle involved.
I measured the new chain length prior to fitting and it turned out to be 3mm shorter than the old one. It may not sound a hell of a lot but the difference was instantly noticable as I started the bike. It purred rather than rattled and I counted the clicks on the CCT as it tightened the chain so I know theres a good few left.

I'd happily use a split chain again with a soft link

Good post that Bias.

His Dudeness · « **Reply #19 on:** 02 September 2012, 10:58:25 pm »

Quote from: Bias on 02 September 2012, 12:38:41 am

Thought I'd jump in here as Ive just replaced my cam chain using a splitter/riveter like the one linked above.

It took me about 6 hours from taking the tank off to restarting the engine. The DID chain came pre split with a soft link rivet and the installation was painless. I did have help from my younger son, but only to help keep the new chain taut as it was fed down the front of the engine as I turned the engine over and pulled the old chain out the rear. It only took about 5 mins to actually do the rivetting.

I did consider a total engine split but decided against it purely cos of the amount of hassle involved.
I measured the new chain length prior to fitting and it turned out to be 3mm shorter than the old one. It may not sound a hell of a lot but the difference was instantly noticable as I started the bike. It purred rather than rattled and I counted the clicks on the CCT as it tightened the chain so I know theres a good few left.

I'd happily use a split chain again with a soft link

yeah nice one

so you used this type riveter http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CHAIN-LINK-SPLITTER-RIVETER-TOOL-HEAVY-DUTY-/390357102833?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5ae318b0f1
and this chain http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer/98-99/picture/cam_timing_chain_did/
is that right?

Bias · « **Reply #20 on:** 03 September 2012, 10:34:29 am »

Quote from: His Dudeness on 02 September 2012, 10:58:25 pm

yeah nice one so you used this type riveter http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CHAIN-LINK-SPLITTER-RIVETER-TOOL-HEAVY-DUTY-/390357102833?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5ae318b0f1
and this chain http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer/98-99/picture/cam_timing_chain_did/
is that right?

Yep, they're the offending items

His Dudeness · « **Reply #21 on:** 03 September 2012, 10:20:18 pm »

Quote from: Bias on 03 September 2012, 10:34:29 am

Quote from: His Dudeness on 02 September 2012, 10:58:25 pm
yeah nice one so you used this type riveter http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CHAIN-LINK-SPLITTER-RIVETER-TOOL-HEAVY-DUTY-/390357102833?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5ae318b0f1
and this chain http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer/98-99/picture/cam_timing_chain_did/
is that right?

Yep, they're the offending items

cool thanks

Mads · « **Reply #22 on:** 24 September 2012, 05:55:24 pm »

Could someone tell me the complete procedure to change the chain. From removing the tank to putting it back on. Do I need to remove the engine from the frame. What about the tensioners - can I change these as well, without taking out the engine and without removing the head.

My engine ratles like a box of nails. I would like to change both chain and tensioner but preferably without removing the engine.

Enlighten me!!!

Mads

Deefer666 · « **Reply #23 on:** 27 September 2012, 08:42:15 pm »

Yes, I always remove the engine and split the casings to fit an endless chain, I too have had riveted links let go on me in the past. I can do it all in one day, but I guess thats the advantage of being a bike mechanic with a kitted out workshop.

unfazed · « **Reply #24 on:** 28 September 2012, 12:39:51 am »

Buy the Haynes Manual first and then download the Yamaha service manual from the down loads section. Having both is better than just one and the Haynes pictures are helpful to beginners.
These are the items requiring removal:
There is no need to remove the engine
Remove the Tank
Remove the side panels on air box
Remove the side covers
Remove the coils and fuel pump
Remove the carbs
Remove the cam cover end caps
Remove the bolt holding the Coolant filler/thermostat
Remove the Alternator Cover and tie it up
Remove the cam chain tensioner (remove the bolt and spring at the end first to release the pressure on the tensioner
Remove the cam cover from the left side and move the coolant filler/thermostat to facilitate removal of the cover.
Remove the spark plugs and cover the spark plug holes just to stop anything from fallin in.
Break the chain and be careful no to drop anything down the chain tunnel
Remove the cams
With the cams removed you can turn the crank as all valves are closed and no compression as plugs are removed.
Under no circumstance turn the crank until the plugs and cams are removed.
Make sure all dowels are out of the inlet side of the head as they will impede the refitting of the inlet camshaft
Lining them up on refitting is fiddly but with a new chain all timing marks should line correctly
The split link is not as we know it but what is known as a soft link which can be peened over like the like on the drive chain.
However I would recommend that the peening over of the soft link is not done by a novice.
I did not find the motion pro tool or type tool very effective and reverted to the heavy and light hammer method