Author Topic: neutral light?? (Read 8036 times)

CRH · « **on:** 16 May 2012, 11:52:13 am »

hi all, got fazer booked in for mot friday morning, so just gave it a final check over! ran it around my estate to bed new pads in etc! and noticed that my neutral light wont go out!!!! through non of the gears up or down box! stays on all the time!! any ideas??????

Fazerider · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 May 2012, 01:56:42 pm »

Cable trapped when the sprocket cover was last screwed down?
Don't think it would cause an MOT failure, but I'd tape over the light with black insulating tape or take the bulb out if you can't find the cause before the test. (Believing you're in neutral when you're actually in gear being more likely to cause an accident.)

CRH · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 May 2012, 02:10:30 pm »

cheers for that fazerider! not had the cover off myself? but ile whip it off now you said that and have a look!! (check out sprocket nut at same time ???)

Raymy · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 May 2012, 02:12:29 pm »

I had this and traced it to corroded plug in the wiring box under the tank. Caused by water ingress due to fighter styling and single headlights allowing a route in.
Sorted by wire brush, wd40 and a plastic bag to cover the opening. Easy fix

Raymy · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 May 2012, 02:13:27 pm »

Always check sprocket when the cover Is off.

CRH · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 May 2012, 02:42:53 pm »

well? had cover off and everything ok in there!! noticed (original) 9mm nut still in place!!! so? tiberius " ile take tank off like you suggest and have a look there!! amazin int it? a few wks ago booked me zafira in for mot never had any problems with it since i bought it 4yrs ago!! day before i take it?.....rear brake lights pack up!!!!! looks like this is going to be another bstd????????

CRH · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 May 2012, 03:44:34 pm »

ok!! had tank off, everything under there fine!! no corrosion anywhere? dont know if this has anything to do with it? but!..when engine running , clutch in , 1st gear engaged , flick sidestand down, light goes out.and engine cuts out!!! now should i now be able to pull clutch back in with side stand still down and engine start? if so it dont!!!

clayt74 · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 May 2012, 03:50:22 pm »

no it wont, side stand switch will cut engine when in gear, regardless of clutch.

CRH · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 May 2012, 03:56:22 pm »

ok clayt thanks for that!! just trying to eliminate side stand switch? dont know where else to look

clayt74 · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 May 2012, 05:29:58 pm »

assuming that its not the actual neutral switch that is stuck closed. then unfortunately it is probably an earthing fault that could be almost any where within the loom.

good luck mate

red98 · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 May 2012, 06:24:08 pm »

if the faults in the loom it may be best to disconnect at each end and run a new wire down the outside of the loom,save upsetting the loom and less work

CRH · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 May 2012, 06:52:18 pm »

thanks for that red! i may well be doing what you suggest? its a bstd! hate anything electric! just peed off its 2days before mot? ive tried every ones suggestions! appart from the last from clayt" check if actual neutral switch is jammed? after that then see if i have a bad earth or fracture somewhere? just hope they dont pick it up on mot if i havnt sorted it by then?

red98 · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 May 2012, 09:14:39 pm »

dont think it will fail mot on that.....good luck

Andy FZS · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 May 2012, 10:53:07 pm »

If the side stand switch stops the engine then it sounds like it's working. Looking at the drawings there is a diode between the neutral light and switch, so if water or a damaged wire was earthing the lamp (therfore lit) between the lamp and the diode then the switch would work and stop the engine but the lamp would be always lit. Sadly can't explain why it went out when the engine stopped though. I'll keep looking so let us know if you get it sorted or if it sorts itself.

Andy

CRH · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 May 2012, 11:48:58 pm »

hi, andy! been in garage for 3hrs tonight, been through all wiring etc associated to the neutral switch couldnt find any bare/ trapped wiring that could be causing it! everything looks intact /clean etc. have noticed one thing though?? when the gear selector is in neutral " the neutral light is very bright!! when put in gear its dim!! so does that sound like a earth fault??? i havnt took out the neutral switch yet as ime not sure what seals it in? o ring or gasket?? by the way? the light doesnt go out when engine is stopped!! only when sidestand is put down!!! cheers clive.

byker_groves · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 May 2012, 12:49:39 am »

from what you've just said there about it being on bright in actual neutral and then on dim in gear suggests a parallel path or a cross connection somewhere drawing some current throught the neutral light from some of the other circuitry, have you had a look on the back of the clocks? not sure what the wiring looks like on the back but if there are any terminal blocks or plug connectors it might be worth inspecting those. also it might aid the fault diagnosis if you look to see if any off your other light dim/brighten when you go in and out of neutral - could give you a clue as to where it's drawing current from.

Andy FZS · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 May 2012, 04:11:35 am »

I've been looking at the drawings some more and concluded the following about the neutral lamp.
1, The lamp has +12V with the main switch "ON"
2, The lamp illuminates when in neutral via a diode when the neutral switch connects the lamp to -12V (earth)
3, The neutral switch also when in neutral connects the ignitor unit to -12V and also the Starting circuit cut-off relay.

So if the engine starts without pulling the clutch then I would think the neutral switch is ok, BUT a slight earth fault caused by the dreaded water or damaged cable might cause the lamp to glow.

Also the manual states that the neutral switch is sealed with an "O" ring but shows that the connection can be removed without removing the switch.

You say that the neutral lamp goes out when the side stand is "Down" this could be due to a diode failure as looking at the drawings the neutral switch and the side stand switch both go to the starting circuit cut off relay via diodes to stop back feeding. As far as I can tell the diode unit is a small block under the tank below the coils but above the carbs.

I hope some of this helps as I'm just going on what's in the manual and I've not seen any of these parts first hand so to speak.

Best of luck Andy

clayt74 · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 May 2012, 08:26:30 am »

Quote from: Andy FZS on 17 May 2012, 04:11:35 am

I've been looking at the drawings some more and concluded the following about the neutral lamp.
1, The lamp has +12V with the main switch "ON"
2, The lamp illuminates when in neutral via a diode when the neutral switch connects the lamp to -12V (earth)
3, The neutral switch also when in neutral connects the ignitor unit to -12V and also the Starting circuit cut-off relay.

So if the engine starts without pulling the clutch then I would think the neutral switch is ok, BUT a slight earth fault caused by the dreaded water or damaged cable might cause the lamp to glow.

Also the manual states that the neutral switch is sealed with an "O" ring but shows that the connection can be removed without removing the switch.

You say that the neutral lamp goes out when the side stand is "Down" this could be due to a diode failure as looking at the drawings the neutral switch and the side stand switch both go to the starting circuit cut off relay via diodes to stop back feeding. As far as I can tell the diode unit is a small block under the tank below the coils but above the carbs.

I hope some of this helps as I'm just going on what's in the manual and I've not seen any of these parts first hand so to speak.

Best of luck Andy

I have to agree with Andy about the diodes. it does appear your neutral switch is working correctly and the fact that with stand down the lamp goes out and when stand is up lamp is dim does indicate a parallel path, the diodes are there to block that path.
from what i can see the diodes are part of the "starting circuit cut off relay" item 31 on this drawing.

good luck

CRH · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 May 2012, 08:44:13 am »

ok, thanks for that byker! ile chk that out later! and thanks to you again andy! going to spend the day on it today, and double check everything as i go along!! ile try and locate that diode and see if i can either get it tested or get another to try! thanks again clive.

CRH · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 May 2012, 08:58:53 am »

thats brilliant clayt!! that will help no end? like ive said? going to spend the day on it!! ime sure with the help you lott are giving me, ile find the bstd !!! .....eventually !

bikemad62 · « **Reply #20 on:** 17 May 2012, 02:04:56 pm »

Try the multi relay in the side panel. It controls the starting and the fuel pump inc neutral light borrow another relay clean the plug, plug in the loan relay. if the problem goes buy a new relay. Hope this helps.

CRH · « **Reply #21 on:** 17 May 2012, 03:07:36 pm »

first of all thanks for your input bikermad!!.......BUT

....cracked the fkd up, never t cum down agen bstd!!!!!!!!! first of all i followed clayt and andys ideas! took off side panel ,removed relays, pulled out connectors, made sure they was ok?, then traced wiring bk to under tank and tooked away under coil bracket is the diode!!removed that and chkd for continuity! that was ok?..so next step was to disconnect live feed to neutral light!!(green plug)... n guess what??...fkn light still on

..so i thought ? right!,something not fkn right here???...i then disconnected the blue plug!!..and the bstd went out when i selected gear $:\$ ..so? me thinks the blue plug feeds the side stand switch!! the fault MUST BE IN THE WIRING???..feeding the neutral light?(dont ask me how) anyway? after examining the wire!.. i found the

little bstd!!!where the wire is routed down from top of engine it passes through the waterpump and somehow had worn through!! it had fused itself to the water pump (out of view) body!! so ive simply chopped the wire and put a new piece in! and ...eureka..

its bang tidy agen!!anyway thanks to everybody who helped sort it for me!! and if i was use!! i would give yours a quick check over? and where it touches the water pipe give it some good insulation, it may be just a one off but worth checking ?? thanks again clive ..

red98 · « **Reply #22 on:** 17 May 2012, 07:20:48 pm »

well done crh

....another fazer back on the road...