Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: grizzler on 30 May 2016, 08:42:19 pm
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Ok everyone any assistance with this problem wont get my hair back but it will help me stop making the head sized hole in my garage wall any bigger. My 03 fzs600 foxeye is playing silly beggars. If I ride for several miles at a speed over 70mph she dies as in fuel starvation. A few on/offs of the ignition and the cards are primed and were moving again. 60 mph is fine she will run all day. So logic says the fuel pump is caput yet it seems to be in fine working order, points and all. So could the tps cause the pump to pump slow? Even if the tps checks out ok when tested? Help!!!!!
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Airlock?
You tried riding at same speed with your fuel cap open, not with a full tank please
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Have you checked the fuel filter ?
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Checked the air filter? Sucking too much air perhaps?
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Shappaeye, she has had a new air filter. no difference. red 98, she has had a new fuel filter. no difference. joebloggs, that's a new idea i will try it out when the fuel level allows.. Thanks everyone. all suggestions are gratefully accepted...
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TPS won't affect it like that.
Next time it does it undo the fuel cap and see if the tank gasps for air.
Or just make sure the breather hole is clear anyway.
Also make sure your fuel tap is turned fully on.
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Checked the air filter? Sucking too much air perhaps?
Sorry but how the foc would u check the airflow through a filter and if by chance it was flowing more air than usual, would it cause the above symptom.
Check the other two.
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Checked the air filter? Sucking too much air perhaps?
Sorry but how the foc would u check the airflow through a filter and if by chance it was flowing more air than usual, would it cause the above symptom.
Check the other two.
As long as it's not a leak it would probably appreciate the air at higher speeds, bit like if you added a K&N filter.
If it was an air leak, like at the carb rubbers for instance, the bike would just bog down every time you try and overtake or give it a bit of welly.
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Trust me when i say she can zoom, just not for long..lol.. She accelerates very well and just keeps on pulling.
I replaced all filters when i replaced the engine. I had the same symptoms with the old engine (and no i didn't change the engine because of this problem). The gearbox was on it's last cogs..lol..
I luckily got my mits on a sweet 23000 miler for £50 off flee bay.
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Just had a quick check on the breather and it seems fine. i shall continue :wall for now..lol...
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What you need to do is rule things out.
Lift the tank check to ensure the fuel pipe is not kinked and routed properly, it should be routed under the frame cross brace and not over it.
If it is over it reroute it under the cross brace
Check the flow from the Fuel tap, lift the tank turn off the fuel tap pull off the hose and attach a long piece of hose to it. direct it into a can, turn on the tap, there should be a full even flow.
Next is do what Joebloggs suggested, rule out a blocked tank vent and ride it with the fuel cap open. If it is ok with the cap open, clear out the tank vent. Press in the two clasps to release the key and put the cap down but not closed.
If the problem still exists, bypass the pump by connecting the pump outlet to the fuel filter outlet, now fill the tank to the absolute brim, a full tank will not require the fuel pump. If it is ok now replace the pump.
Let us know how you get on
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Cheers for those ideas, fuel pipe is not kinked and routed correctly, the other checks shall be attempted this week as time permits..
Thanks for the advice everyone. More ideas are still welcome..
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Just out of interest.. what tells the fuel pump when to come on and off? And how does it decide when to be on and off?
Mine ticks away when the ignition is first switched on. I assume filling the carbs, but what tells it to stop? Is it constant speed or variable? It's one of those things I've never taken the time to understand.
Sorry to detract from the original post.. although on topic. ;)
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Checked the air filter? Sucking too much air perhaps?
Sorry but how the foc would u check the airflow through a filter and if by chance it was flowing more air than usual, would it cause the above symptom.
Check the other two.
Just trying to help, heard a call for assistance, so I contributed. I won't do that again in a hurry!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Just out of interest.. what tells the fuel pump when to come on and off? And how does it decide when to be on and off?
Mine ticks away when the ignition is first switched on. I assume filling the carbs, but what tells it to stop? Is it constant speed or variable? It's one of those things I've never taken the time to understand.
Sorry to detract from the original post.. although on topic. ;)
There is a pressure switch built into the pump that switched it off
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Checked the air filter? Sucking too much air perhaps?
Sorry but how the foc would u check the airflow through a filter and if by chance it was flowing more air than usual, would it cause the above symptom.
Check the other two.
Just trying to help, heard a call for assistance, so I contributed. I won't do that again in a hurry!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don't take my comment to heart, having myths dismissed is good for the forum.
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You say you've changed the fuel filter, but there are three in all...
It'd be worth checking the one in the tank attached to the fuel tap and the little one in the T-piece at the back of the carbs.
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Checked the air filter? Sucking too much air perhaps?
Sorry but how the foc would u check the airflow through a filter and if by chance it was flowing more air than usual, would it cause the above symptom.
Check the other two.
Just trying to help, heard a call for assistance, so I contributed. I won't do that again in a hurry!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don't take my comment to heart, having myths dismissed is good for the forum.
That's a good point actually, now I've stopped crying into my helmet, I understand, thank you.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Some very good ideas have been put forward here and i thank each and every one of you for them. Re tank open--- It made no difference so i'm going to remove that possibility. I checked the T piece filters when i had the carbs off during the engine replacement and they are fine. I've not checked the tank one yet but will as soon as i can though the fuel flow seems fast and constant when poured directly from the tap. getting a bit stressed now as i'm due to take on Germany in 3 weeks and still cant find the cause.. German autobahns at 60mph is not appealing..lol...
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I'd take a quick look at the carb diaphragms just incase they are perished or split. Could be that its not starved of fuel but that the slides wont lift high enough
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I notice you got a new engine, its not restricted is it.
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If you had the issue before then I would definitely be pulling the carb tops off, my old 600R had a split diaphragm and it would pull hard in the lower gears then struggle once under load at higher speeds. It may not be that simple but an easy one to rule out
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joebloggs, diaphragms are a ok (checked when stripped n cleaned). She pulls up to 120 and my bottle goes before the bikes willingness to go faster..lol..
Just for a bit more info, i believe it's a fuel starvation problem because i have to prime the carbs again after she conks out. I just cant seem to find the reason the fuel doesn't flow fast enough at higher speeds as it's a hard thing to test at 80mph..lol..
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Hmm very odd, had similar symptoms with my wife's old zzr400. Unfortunately, I never did resolve it. :-( Does it only become a problem when. travelling at 70 odd? I mean when at stand still can you rev the engine to a similar point? If so, then this may imply it's related to air flow at speed, or the Speed/gear the bike is in. We always suspected the Jap imported zzr400 was restricted based on speed/gear (did try grounding wires from CDI), or the ram air intake.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk
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Maybe the fuel is getting restricted after the T-piece.
If you compare the flow rates you can get from the carb drains it might be possible to judge which one isn't filling as fast as the others. It takes a surprisingly long time to empty a float bowl so you'd need to let each one pour for a couple of minutes before making a measurement.
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Carb icing?
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Did you do the pump bypass yet?
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How do you know the fuel pump is in good working order? Could it be functioning ok electrically but have a mechanical issue?
To me it does sound like the pump is not keeping up with demand for whatever reason.
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Did you check the pump output? They don't last forever and it's output is down it would only show up at higher speeds.
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I am just heading down that path as I seem to be running out of reasons..lol.. no idea how to check that so bought a new one. Awaiting it's arrival with worms in my mouth......... ( baited breath)... :)
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Given that you've checked everything else, I'd bypass the fuel pump and see what happens.
It could be a faulty pump or an intermittent electrical issue.
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Carb icing?
My bike suffered carb icing when I first got it, his symptoms don't sound like that.
Once the carbs ice up the bike runs like absolute shite, it wouldn't be resolved with a few on/offs of the key, the ice needs to be melted before you can set off again.
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Carb icing?
My bike suffered carb icing when I first got it, his symptoms don't sound like that.
Once the carbs ice up the bike runs like absolute shite, it wouldn't be resolved with a few on/offs of the key, the ice needs to be melted before you can set off again.
Ah good point, I have never had it but seen it mentioned and thought I'd throw it into the mix.
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Carb icing only happens in temperatures of around 4 degrees or less. It can happens from startup on the fazers until they reach operating temperature, but not after as the carb heaters prevent it. Some of the fazers came from the factory with a blockage in the coolant circuit in the carbs and are more prone to it, but is easily fixed.
Since the issue happens during a run of a few miles in excess of 70mph and drains the carbs it is most likely the pump that is misbehaving.
Bypassing the pump on a full tank of fuel is the easiest way to check a faulty pump if you do not have special pressure testers.
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The new pump arrived today and is now installed I'll get to test it tomorrow.. I'll let you know the outcome. ..
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Fuel pump?
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Ok.. so new pump is good and i can now cruise at over 60 with no problems... All is good... or is it? I'm sure that the pump is not supposed to be constantly pumping. Turn on the ignition and off she goes, pumping for England till what is assume is a timer tells it to stop. Now here's the killer. Press the stater and fire her up and the pump is going 10 to the dozen . Never slows it's rate n does not stop. When stationery it sound like the little ends are knocking g to come out. It wouls believe this is not good but for the fact that although it's pumping hard there is no leaking of fuel anywhere.. it's just like my luck to buy a brand new duffer of a pump but as it had to change the electrical conecter in can't send the bleeder back. But at least in know where the original problem stemmed from.. do these pumps have an internal presure sensor that makes them stop or is that controlled elsewhere? ?? Ps I've started a new whole in my garage wall...lol..
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I'm pretty sure all fuel pumps shut off with pressure. I'd try disconnecting the outlet from the pump. Put your finger over the outlet while it's pumping and it should shut off. If it does shut off then the pump is working and the problem is probably the float needle in the carbs not seating properly and the carbs are flooding. If the pump keeps pumping with your finger over the outlet then the pump is the problem. Be careful with the petrol
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Yes, the pump should cut out with time or pressure and you should test it as his dudeness says.
Out of curiosity where did you get the pump? There are a number of cheaply made rubbish pumps around and the fact it had the wrong connector should have aroused suspicion immediately
Since the pump is not an overly common fault on the 600 I would have risked a one from a breakers like Fazerspares in Bristol or known reliable breakers in you own area.
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I have tested as suggested and it doesn't stop.
But as I said there is absolutely no fuel leakage anywhere nor is there the smell of petrol. So although the pump is pumping enough fuel for me to ride happily at autobahn speeds it would suggest that it isn't actually pumping excessive amounts of fuel to overflow or even flood the carbs. Stranger n stranger...
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Unless it has an internal bypass valve. I personally would not leave it on the bike unless I knew how it worked.
Where did you get it and does it have make/model info on it?
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sounds like the pump you bought is faulty ! !
as for original problem stupid i know but have you checked the breather is clear on the tank filler neck ??? easily overlooked
as it deffinately sounds like a starvation problem :)
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As your new pump hasn't fixed the fault and doesn't have a pressure cut-off switch, I'd stick the old one back on.
Maybe it's an electrical problem, intermittent fuel pump relay perhaps.
The control signal for the fuel pump relay comes from the ignitor unit.
Try the usual search for loose and corroded connectors, damaged wires etc. and if nothing looks wrong, a new relay.
<edit> Sorry. Ignore this, missed the post where you found the original problem is solved!
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Just to correct a common misnomer, the fuel pump is not controlled by the ignitor, it gets it power from the Ignition fuse via the Kill switch and a relay which is is controlled by the ignitor.
The ignitor supplies an earth to switch on the pump relay, but knows nothing of the Fuel pump. All controls like the pressure control and timer are within the pump housing
The pump you bought is either faulty or not the correct one for the FZS600.
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I have pump number 3 (including the original duffer) on it's way.
This one I am promised by a good friend of a good friend who breaks bikes that this one is off a running 03 model.
In the meantime I have put a new tyre on the front as the v shaped one I had was getting fun to use..lol..
I stripped the old knackered pump just to see how it works. It would seem there are 2 valves inside it so I'm going with a faulty valve on the new one but as I had to change the connector I can't send it back. Lesson learned. . When the next pump is in place n tested I will report.. in the meantime I have learned to count to 10 and say the words please, thank you and beer in German...lol..
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Just to update and thank you all for your suggestions and advice. The pump I have aquire is working perfectly and I am able to cruise over 70 without a problem. Happy days as I'm off to Germany on Thursday. Nothing like leaving it late..lol.. Thanks to all who helped and although i don't wish it on anyone i hope I can help someone else out with a problem in the future. RIDE SAFE...
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Have a good trip, glad to see you got sorted :thumbup