[SOLVED] numb fingers - 3000-4000rpm

[keratos]

I read this:
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=8954.0

had the bike 2 weeks now, but :-
- my carbs are balanced and just around 240 all 4 gauges which is bang on according to spec
- I kept below 4000RPM as I heard the vibe was 5000+
- I have heavier bar ends although still riding with stock grips
- engine mounts are torqued to spec

cant feel my fingers and operating brakes is difficult which makes it rather dangerous

any ideas? is this common?

[reddave101]

I had a similar problem when I first had mine but after a few tweaks I don't have any kind of vibration in the handlebars whatsoever.. I'll list a things you could possibly look at and even alter to make it feel better..


Front and rear wheel bearings? Is their any play or when you spin the wheels is their any clugging? Changed all mine out for industrial machine bearings with steel seals instead of rubber/plastic ones( seems to be smoother)


Wheel spacers, worn, cracked? Spindles worn or dirty?


Fork oil degraded? If degraded in one side more than the other will throw the balance of the front end off? I upgraded my springs to hyper pro to stop the diving and change the oil in them every 6 month


Front tyre uneven wear? Throwing the balance off again?


Wheels balanced? Should really have the balance checked every time you have anew tyre put on but believe it or not this is overlooked quite a lot?


Handlebars bent? Again balance is out?


Front spindle over taught which could crush against the bearings and would cause a lot of friction resulting in vibration? 67nm is perfect.


Brake caliper piston jammed up and not retracting so pads are wearing uneven, again causing too much friction causing vibration??


Just a few thoughts for you..

[Fazafou]

Most of those mods are speed related though, not revs.

If you're stationary and bring the revs up slowly you'll feel if it's engine related. Then you can choose which things to aim at working on.

[keratos]

I had a similar problem when I first had mine but after a few tweaks I don't have any kind of vibration in the handlebars whatsoever.. I'll list a things you could possibly look at and even alter to make it feel better....

Front and rear wheel bearings? Is their any play or when you spin the wheels is their any clugging? Changed all mine out for industrial machine bearings with steel seals instead of rubber/plastic ones( seems to be smoother)
>> I cannot detect anything but then I wouldnt know what poor/worn bearings look or sound like. Bike just passed an MoT this week so??..


Wheel spacers, worn, cracked? Spindles worn or dirty?
>> How would I find out whether spacers worn? Wheel spins freely and no unusual binding , resistance or sounds.

Fork oil degraded? If degraded in one side more than the other will throw the balance of the front end off? I upgraded my springs to hyper pro to stop the diving and change the oil in them every 6 month
>> No idea and would be a big job for me; I dont own fork holders, t-handles, vices, etc. as mentioned/required in the Yam Shop Service manual (section 7-45)

Front tyre uneven wear? Throwing the balance off again?
>> Nope.

Wheels balanced? Should really have the balance checked every time you have anew tyre put on but believe it or not this is overlooked quite a lot?
>> Dont know. will need to ask a garage to balance; again I dont have the equip for this

Handlebars bent? Again balance is out?
>> No

Front spindle over taught which could crush against the bearings and would cause a lot of friction resulting in vibration? 67nm is perfect.
>> Spindle - see above. both wheels "seem" - to me  - ok

Brake caliper piston jammed up and not retracting so pads are wearing uneven, again causing too much friction causing vibration??
>> Brakes are fine

These are more than tweaks for me - probably over £400 of garage labour time  (8rs) alone. Just to diagnose before any problem gets fixed - at extra cost. Bike only cost £1700. Two work colleagues owned Fazers and complained of numbness too, they suggested getting thicker neopreme grips??

Also, what I noticed is that at around 50-60mph, arms sort of relaxed, if I make small, minor, very gentle forward and back movements of my elbows, probably 1cm, the front end feels wobbly and unsafe.???

[keratos]

Most of those mods are speed related though, not revs.

If you're stationary and bring the revs up slowly you'll feel if it's engine related. Then you can choose which things to aim at working on.

I get vibes , quite a bit, when stationary when revving (no load) upto 3000-4000rpm. Maybe its because I came from a 500cc maxi-scooter single cylinder 1 yr old 2000 miles on clock belt driven smooth bike?? This fazer is 2000 (14 yr old) with 20K on the clock??

So the vibes are defo engine related, not speed.

[reddave101]

Now you've mentioned moving arms backwards or forwards and feels unsafe it could still be the front end and not engine..


Possibly headstock bearings have degraded?? Even if you don't feel any notching, if the bearings are degraded it can make the centre shaft loose which will vibrate up and through the handlebars..


And consider the forks. If the oil has degraded it won't damp correctly which will make it feel light and loose when moving as the front end will rise whilst accelerating but when riding the weight will make the front end sink and every mm of road surface will be felt all the way through the handlebars. Even if not actually felt it will be harmonic which will cause dead fingers and hands?


Very easy to change the oil in the forks. No special knowledge or tools are needed. All you need is a 19mm (spanner) ,socket for the top nuts, Allen key for spindle lock and stantion clamps, 12mm socket (spanner) for brake caliper bolts and Allen key for damper nut, flat screwdriver, small drill bit and small drill..Fork oil, oil seals, dust covers(if yours are gone) and new springs if want to upgrade. And about 1hr of time..sounds a lot but seriously it is easy to do and saves money..

[fazersharp]

I had this when I firt got the bike and I changed the grips to (i think) pro sports or somthing and it sorted it

[mickvp]

I would try flinging a set of thicker grips on it first - cheapest and easiest fix. Just be careful the vibration is not a symptom of another issue, which you then mask with the thicker grips causing (potentially) more damage!

[midden]

Front and rear wheel bearings?  Changed all mine out for industrial machine bearings with steel seals instead of rubber/plastic ones( seems to be smoother)
>> I cannot detect anything but then I wouldnt know what poor/worn bearings look or sound like. Bike just passed an MoT this week so??..





Out of interest why would you contemplate changing specifically designed motorbike wheel bearings for industrial machine bearings with steel seals, if you wouldn't even know what a worn bearing would look like?


Do you even know if the bearing you have installed can take the pounding put upon wheel bearings

[mickvp]

Front and rear wheel bearings?  Changed all mine out for industrial machine bearings with steel seals instead of rubber/plastic ones( seems to be smoother)
>> I cannot detect anything but then I wouldnt know what poor/worn bearings look or sound like. Bike just passed an MoT this week so??..





Out of interest why would you contemplate changing specifically designed motorbike wheel bearings for industrial machine bearings with steel seals, if you wouldn't even know what a worn bearing would look like?


Do you even know if the bearing you have installed can take the pounding put upon wheel bearings

Think you have picked that up wrong Midden, reddave has changed out his bearings for industrial machine bearings, but its keratos who wouldnt know what a worn bearing looks/sounds like

[reddave101]

I would try flinging a set of thicker grips on it first - cheapest and easiest fix. Just be careful the vibration is not a symptom of another issue, which you then mask with the thicker grips causing (potentially) more damage!

I don't think this would change anything. I've got alloy grips on mine with rubber inserts, so not giving much vibration protection and I don't suffer with any numb fingers or hands after a 100mile run..


I definitely do agree though you could just mask the problem which eventually become more dangerous without knowing...




The wheel bearings I've put in can definitely take the pounding from wheels as they are the same ones they use at work on a high speed mixer which spin a thick chemical which has hardcore in it at 50.000 rpm. Thought it was worth a shot and had mine installed for the past 8 month with no problems

[keratos]

Think you have picked that up wrong Midden, reddave has changed out his bearings for industrial machine bearings, but its keratos who wouldnt know what a worn bearing looks/sounds like

Correct sorry. I should have been clearer

I'm confused. So many options and different advice some conflicting.

I get vibes at standstill so perhaps not forks or bearings. Defo engine related then? What can I do?

Noticed this...
http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=252662&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25&sid=e34965cbbd87dfaaeccca193d6f4d063

And my bike does hunt at idle. Revs fluctuate from 1250 to 1300 may be 1350 and it direct sound like smooth. The rev counter is twitchy but I balanced my carbs and they looked OK. I might try again. Or is this fluctuation normal on carbs. I've only ever had fuel injection on previous bikes.

[reddave101]

Fluctuation on carbs is normal but not that excessive. Blockage in air intake, carbs, breathers? Cracked rubbers, pipes? or try just resetting the TPS? mine jumps between 1250 & 1270. If all seems ok try changing plugs and air filter..

quick tip to try in seconds, take the hte leads of each plug and spray wd40 in each end. let them soak for a couple of minutes then put them back on the plugs. Could be simply corrosion or dirt built up in the plug caps.

[keratos]

Fluctuation on carbs is normal but not that excessive. Blockage in air intake, carbs, breathers? Cracked rubbers, pipes? or try just resetting the TPS? mine jumps between 1250 & 1270. If all seems ok try changing plugs and air filter..

quick tip to try in seconds, take the hte leads of each plug and spray wd40 in each end. let them soak for a couple of minutes then put them back on the plugs. Could be simply corrosion or dirt built up in the plug caps.

Sorry, my readings were crap. I took another reading today. 1250 and 1300 rpm is the margin of fluctuation.
 
When I bought the bike I replaced: Fuel filter, Air filter, all plugs and balanced carbs. carbs we thought were ok, difference of no more than +/- 10 across all 4, as per shop manual. I sprayed caps and all accessible (seat, side covers, signals, tank etc.) loom connectors - with Holts Contact Cleaner, let drip n dry, and all was well.
 
A guy at work has just suggested its my style or roads (I use 'B' roads with scrappy tarmac) or thin fingers and poor gloves perhaps because he remembers me complaining about numb fingers on my previous bike.
 

[Fazafou]

Nah, vibes are vibes, regardless of style or gloves etc.

You can get numb hands from gripping too tight etc, but if you feel vibration then it's irrelevant.

I'd start simple since its obviously engine speed related.

At standstill get the bike to the revs where the vibes appear and move around the engine etc looking/listening for anything buzzing off the frame or engine or for any area the problem seems worse.

[keratos]

Nah, vibes are vibes, regardless of style or gloves etc.

You can get numb hands from gripping too tight etc, but if you feel vibration then it's irrelevant.

I'd start simple since its obviously engine speed related.

At standstill get the bike to the revs where the vibes appear and move around the engine etc looking/listening for anything buzzing off the frame or engine or for any area the problem seems worse.

ok. thanks. will do late afternoon and report back.

[midden]

Front and rear wheel bearings?  Changed all mine out for industrial machine bearings with steel seals instead of rubber/plastic ones( seems to be smoother)
>> I cannot detect anything but then I wouldnt know what poor/worn bearings look or sound like. Bike just passed an MoT this week so??..





Out of interest why would you contemplate changing specifically designed motorbike wheel bearings for industrial machine bearings with steel seals, if you wouldn't even know what a worn bearing would look like?


Do you even know if the bearing you have installed can take the pounding put upon wheel bearings

Think you have picked that up wrong Midden, reddave has changed out his bearings for industrial machine bearings, but its keratos who wouldnt know what a worn bearing looks/sounds like

Ahhh my apologies Keratos,   Cheers Reddave for the bearing explanation and cheers Mick for just being there

[keratos]

I can't find anything loose

I took another route home from work, along A roads. A Few stops at lights. Got home 30 mins later and no numb fingers. I usually travel on unclassified country roads, bumpy, tarmac loose or stripped, hardly any stops/lights.

[keratos]

Wheel balanced and both front bearings replaced.

No numb fingers!

Solved!