Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: slimwilly on 06 February 2014, 05:58:12 pm
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I see them union leaders leading their members into strikes, so that you , the general public will love them more. :)
It's odd how the employees seem to know how to run the companys.
If they are not careful it will be like the car manufacturers and miners, all go tits up.
There is always the risk the employers will replace the unions with foreign workers who say "thanks for the job"
Hope thet get it sorted, seems to be fucking up London,and all those workers who need to be places.
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Totally agree.
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Funny those union bosses earning £250k working for the hard pressed working man.
900 odd are needed to loose their jobs and over 1000 have said they would take volentry redundency. = no need to strike
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I see them union leaders leading their members into strikes
Union leaders cannot lead their members into a strike.
Unions represent their members. Members are balloted for industrial action if or when negotiations fail. There is an extremely difficult lengthy process to go through before you can call an official 'legal' strike. Which in turn is why more and more good old fashioned 'illegal' wild cat strikes are sadly becoming more common.
Funny those union bosses earning £250k working for the hard pressed working man.
Firstly who is this man or woman. Secondly why is it OK for Maggie Thatcher to grow up as a Grocers daughter but spend her last years living at the Ritz, but if a working man or a union boss gets a decent rate of pay certain stupid idiots want to piss all over them. So fuck off!
If they are not careful it will be like the car manufacturers and miners, all go tits up.
Who was that fella that ran ICI years ago, in his later years he had a TV show called The Trouble Shooter or something, anyway he said "there is such thing as bad industrial relations, only bad management"
Germany has a far far higher of union membership than the UK, but in Germany businesses value their workers (better rates of pay, terms, conditions and pensions) and see unions as their partners.
I'm told the problem doon in London is London Underground want the majority of stations to run without ticket offices? Never mind the jobs, but really how dumb can you get, or perhaps how stupidly greedy.
That's another thing that England is crap at (rather than the UK cos I think we're trying to learn that one in Scotland) - service.
I know it's a pain for those who rely on the London tube to get to work, but for focs sake try and blame the right people. It's about time somebody asked the bosses - why are your trains not running - why are you trying to wreck the service - get it fixed!
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May be if the union bosses also lost a days pay they wont be so interested in strikes
And why do we even need ticket offices
I bet youve got a red fazer
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Someone privately paid for Maggie to live at the Ritz, so you can scrub that one off the hate list. And she got to that stage by working, not striking. So fuck off.
Hopefully the tube will go driverless soon anyway, DLR runs just fine driverless. All striking does is give more strength to bringing in technology that works 24/7 without going sick or striking.
And TfL want the ticket office staff to move out onto the 'shop floor' - where they can help people, so all this 'there won't be anyone to help' is bollocks.
Who knows, it might keep them awake so they can actually do what they're paid for :z
(http://www.standard.co.uk/incoming/article9108236.ece/ALTERNATES/w620/sleepy.jpg)
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Someone privately paid for Maggie to live at the Ritz, so you can scrub that one off the hate list. And she got to that stage by working, not striking. So fuck off.
That private somebody would be Sir David and Sir Frederick Barclay, owners of the Daily and Sunday Telegraph, err who also happen to own the Ritz I do believe. I guess part of her reward for keeping the 'scum' under control for the toffs.
The rest of us, our good jobs gone, our pensions stuffed will probably end up lying in our own piss in some shitty minimum wage staffed crappy private care home, that every few years has to be bailed out by the state (tax payer). Not that that will worry the rich as they don't pay tax anymore.
Hopefully the tube will go driverless soon anyway, DLR runs just fine driverless.
Yup just great till something goes wrong and there's no human to override it. It's common sense to run a train with a human on board to oversee the immediate system.
And if it was your job? goldfazer = fuck you I'm all right Jack?
And TfL want the ticket office staff to move out onto the 'shop floor' - where they can help people, so all this 'there won't be anyone to help' is bollocks.
Yeah right. It's just a step to getting rid of em. I guess it's up to folks in London, but ah ken if they proposed removing the ticket offices from The Clockwork Orange, I'd be happy to show support for the workers.
And of course London will just become a joke in Europe without ticket offices. I mean the English train services are already a joke, so why not turn the your London tube service into a joke.
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'And if it was your job? goldfazer = fuck you I'm all right Jack?'
I've been made redundant. And guess what, I got me arse into gear and found something else. And I pay for my own pension.
Trouble is VNA, folks like you hate success and actually want to end up 'lying in our own piss in some shitty minimum wage staffed crappy private care home' just so you can keep feeling bitter.
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Trouble is VNA, folks like you hate success and actually want to end up 'lying in our own piss in some shitty minimum wage staffed crappy private care home' just so you can keep feeling bitter.
I'm a union member, I've been a union member all my life working in unionised workplaces, so I do very well thank-you very much.
Sorry to hear about your redundancy, but I hope your new career is to your liking and yer earning some good doh.
Success, envy? Not me, I'm all for it (um the success, not the envy ;) ), but not at other folks expense.
I mean take poor Bob, the boss of a big union which campaigns for the future of our transport system and with some success defends the pay terms and conditions of it's workers, well poor Bob takes a holiday and he gets it in the neck. The Daily Mail is up in arms cos he took a wee break advertised in it's pages. I winder who the Daily Mail thinks such holidays are for?
Talking of success, you know what gets me, it's hard working people not sharing in success. Should not everybody doing their job and working full time not be able to share some success. But no, a whole host of massive companies in the UK get away with paying their workforce the minimum wage, a wage that lies below the living wage - ie what you need to earn to be able to comfortably support ones self. These are the very same companies that are very often dodging billions in corporation tax (legally allowed to do so by our Westminster government), which is why so many of us are focced.
So people like (you maybe) and I, earning good money and paying our taxes have to subsidise these big rich companies, their greedy fat cat directors and shareholders by putting our taxes towards benefits for their hard working employees. If that is the politics of envy (not), then like a great many others I'm guilty as charged.
But the popular media, such as the Sun, the Mail, the Telegraph and so forth are successfully pulling the wool over the eyes of the masses getting them fighting each other over 'benefits' and good old Bob Crow sipping a cocktail on a beach in Brazil. How dare Bob have a holiday!
God help good old Bob Crow if he even as much as spends one nigh in the Ritz!
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I remember during the miners strike Scargill being called a militant by the Sun while at the same time calling the Polish electrician Lech ( can't remember his surname a freedom fighter for wanting to form a union , so go figure .
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Funny those union bosses earning £250k working for the hard pressed working man.
Bob Crow is paid £135K for leading a union of 80,000 members. Seems about right to me. He's just doing his job. I think you only get paid £250K if you are a banker, or a CEO whose job it is making thousands redundant.
900 odd are needed to loose their jobs and over 1000 have said they would take volentry redundency. = no need to strike
So what if they have enough applications for voluntary redundancy ? That's 950 fewer jobs for the jobless. Anyway, if you read TFL's proposals this is about much wider issues than just those jobs.
O and BTW that photo has been proven to be faked.
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The Daily Mail is up in arms cos he took a wee break advertised in it's pages. I winder who the Daily Mail thinks such holidays are for?
I've no love for Bob Crow (nor Boris!) but when the Daily Fail came out with this crap about him having a holiday drinking in "sun-kissed Brazil" he a) asked them what they expected him to do: Read Karl Marx all day? and b) pointed out (as you mention) that he actually got the holiday deal *FROM* the pages of the Daily Heil!!
:D
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It's a shame Maggie didn't have the balls to do what was needed to make BT profitable instead of passing the blame and wealth to the private sector.
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1/q71/s720x720/1795624_793436820673468_1499005766_n.jpg)(https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=793436820673468&set=a.340040879346400.100101.100000214733975&type=1&theater)
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Its bad enough having self service checkouts in supermarkets
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:agree
I cant stand those self service checkouts and would rather queue up at a normal till than go to an empty self service one.
Regarding the unions though, WANKERS. The lot of them and Bob Crow is amongst the worst.
I do think that stations should be manned though. Get rid of the drivers instead and bring in more DLR type driverless trains.
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Strange that Boris Johnson said that he would not close any ticket stations in 2010 because it was popular with electors and travellers.......and helped to get him elected so perhaps those who decide things might try consulting their customers - or is that too inconvenient for British management s usual. Strange that japanese car companies can set up & work well here - perhaps they just have better management than the rank amateurs often at thee head of british 'old boy network' run companies......just an alternative view
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Not sure Id feel comfortable without a driver on a London tube train but it's easy enough using the ticket machines, easier than queuing at the ticket office!
I expect next weeks strike will go ahead as Arsenal are at home to Man utd so the union is bound to foc that up.
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Never been a member of a union myself, but I do think sometimes they are necessary to stop employers taking the piss. It's sad to have to say that, but we see it often enough. It's about balance. Employers should look after their employees, and unions & employees should not feel the need to go all militant in their methods to get what they are entitled to. But unfortunately, we have this thing called human nature... :\
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Strange that japanese car companies can set up & work well here - perhaps they just have better management than the rank amateurs often at thee head of british 'old boy network' run companies......just an alternative view
That is about it. When certain Japanese companies were considering and negotiating to open car plants in the UK, a few things they were clear about was, 1. They were happy to have a unionised workforce but they insisted on a single union deal (ie they didn't want to have to sit down with 6,7 or 8 unions), 2. they sought assurances from the government that the UK was in the EU common market for good. They needed car plants in Europe to get round EU import restrictions.
The Japanese value and respect their workers and do much business on the basis of trust. Change at work in a Japanese plant is through negotiation.
Talking of British car makers, Triumph Rover in I think the late 80's was in partnership with Honda and both were starting to make some half decent cars sharing technology and common platforms. Thatcher (or was it Major) arrogantly sold Rover to BMW without consulting Honda. Part of the reason BMW wanted to get it's hands on Rover was to get it hands on the new technology that the Japanese were coming up with. If it wasn't for the shear stupidity of certain Tory ministers Rover would still be in partnership with Honda today. A total foc up.
Employers should look after their employees, and unions & employees should not feel the need to go all militant in their methods to get what they are entitled to.
I can tell you, no employee, no union member ever wants to go on strike. Industrial action can also cement resentment and bitterness in a business. There's no need for industrial action, but when you have dumb macho managers it's inevitable.
A rail service with no ticket offices, I mean what a joke. Surely it's taking the piss out of London Undergrounds customers too.
Anyway polls are showing a strong majority of Londoners supporting the strike despite the inconvenience they are suffering. Maybe Londoners ain't such a bad lot after all :D
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Regarding the unions though, WANKERS. The lot of them and Bob Crow is amongst the worst.
8 million wankers. Nice one. Ya fud.
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Never been a member of a union myself, but I do think sometimes they are necessary to stop employers taking the piss. It's sad to have to say that, but we see it often enough. It's about balance. Employers should look after their employees, and unions & employees should not feel the need to go all militant in their methods to get what they are entitled to. But unfortunately, we have this thing called human nature... :\
I agree. I've been in a Union all my working career. They handled our outsourcing/insourcing well where we could have lost out even more than we did. I've been on strike twice in 29 years, the last time was 1992 or thereabouts. The last ballot for industrial action 2 or 3 years ago about cuts/pensions got a resounding no.
Dont forget, its the workers that have to vote for a strike, not just the Union leaders saying lets strike.
Do other European cities have ticket offices for all stations on their underground/trams? I cant recall seeing an office in Koln or Vienna, you just stick your money in the machine. A simplified pricing structure would help. Vienna has 1 city zone for the majority of the city.
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I thought they were closing the offices and putting some of those people in the stations to assist on the shop floor? Can't see a problem with just using ticket machines. And if there is a handy high vis clad "travel coordinator manager executive assistant" somewhere to help when I have spent 10 minutes trying to shove my fiver into the credit card slot then that is a bonus.
I've been through London only a handful of times, so not enough to get familiar with the underground system, but I've never had to use a manned ticket counter, or felt the need to, so a big fuss about nothing in my view. I would have more sympathy if they were just striking about the loss of jobs, but grinding London to a halt because some ticket offices are getting shut, seems OTT to me.
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The Japanese value and respect their workers and do much business on the basis of trust. Change at work in a Japanese plant is through negotiation.
Working at a Japanese bank, that is true. However what it also means is that they are often reluctant to change, particularly where its needed quickly, and often have an unneccesarily complex business structure because of it!
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Anyone who believes there is no need for unions is just a fucking idiot,
But fuckit my 2 pence worth move half the fucking jobs out of London to areas were the cost of property is less and labour costs likely less as well. No wonder the Jocks are pushing for Independance, everything in this fucked country seems to be centred in the South East of the country.
As regards Thatcher spending her remaining days at the RITZ even her own children had had enough of the old cunt.
Got herself elected for a second term on the back of a war. Then refused to let the injured and disfigured for life, service men parade through London with the armed forces as part of a victory celebration to saint Pauls.
Yes they were allowed to attend the service but had to quietly file in and sit at the back so as the general public could not see there hideous scars and disfigurement.
That old bitch has split the UK in two as in the North South devide.
She led the charge to destroy our manufacturing base ably assisted I may add by Scargill and co, but at least villian that he was he forecst the damage that that bitch and her cronies would do to the country.
The London underground are wanting to make x amount redundant to save £50 million, will those savings be passed onto the customers in stalling the next price hike in fares, I doubt it. They save £50 million , payout redundancy packages(costs please) the now unemployed have to sign on the dole for benifits, which I assume will be means tested. Who is going to pick up the tab for unemployment benifits? so can some one explain to me were are the actual savings.
One thing I will say is that strikes by public service workers should not be allowed, but if an independent body fines in favour of the work force heads should roll at the very top of management.
Get back to talking about fazers for fucks sake and screw politics.
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Lew....... U got some miner issues.... Lol and not even a mention of the poll tax... Go on son... Let it out....we all here ya...
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Haha, we are all entitled to an opinion :) , whether it is shared is another thing,dont get to mad or personel,remember there are us employers who have to work hard for the jobs we create ,and we are in favour of self enterprise,if you want it , go and get it, learn to make your own oppertunities.
Employers have to bend over backwards to comply with the law for employees, some of the recent rights are a bit of a piss take and sometimes you have to ask is
it all worth it.
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and sometimes you have to ask is
it all worth it.
Yep I downsized years ago and got rid of full time staff. Got fed up working my bollocks off to give thousands of pounds to staff.
Nowdays, overall I have less stress and more money in my pocket!
I'm self employed and my earnings are directly effected by my productivity and bottom line profit.
By striking London Underground are forcing probably thousands more people to lose a days wages as well - not funny.
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Bit too heavy for my morning read - Christo, where are ya?! :lol
I do wonder about people who say go and make your own opportunities though. Is it only people who have managed to that say this? Don't the conditions, as well as the individual's attitude have to be right to do this? Oh well, I must just be a thick bastard then.... :\
Us workers whinge about our lot - that's just what we do, it keeps us happy :)
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yes nick !!!
then we all hugged and went for a pint
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"Carl Marx believed that there are two major outcomes of prolonged capitalism. The first outcome is the gradual formation of a smaller and wealthier social class (the capitalists). Because the wealth of society continues to accrue to this wealthier class, the increasing wealth of society is controlled by less and less. At the same time, weaker capitalists gradually sink into the lower class of laborers. The second outcome is the alienation of workers. While workers produce more and more wealth, they turn poorer and weaker to the point they become mere commodities."
It will get worse and worse. Perhaps those 19th century Luddites were not so crazy after all. Unions and strikes are the only way for workers to fight for themselves, although Union leaders are often bribed and working for the capitalists actually, while pretending to be fighting for the workers.
Best way to rule is to divide people. I'll always remember when in secondary school some thugs came to beat a guy from our class. We all stood behind him and said - you fight one on one, or we all come in. They gave up. Some years later, in the army, 5 older idiots were harassing 50 new ones. Without problem. What was the catch? 50 new recruits came from different parts of the country and didn't feel united, connected. So as long as the thugs didn't harass all 50 at the same time, but picked one by one - there was no problem.
So one must make sure to divide people. When train drivers are protesting, make people hate them, for the inconvenience, not support them. Later, when professors start strike, train drivers will remember no support and not help professors get their rights. Make people not feel as one, but divide. Starving in Africa - who cares?! Taxi drivers having problems - just make sure they don't block the streets in protest, I need to go to work. My wage is cut this year in half - no one but me cares, just as long as I don't inconvenience them with my whining...
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a point that seems to escape the 'im alright jack' brigrade is that when us peasant workers go on strike, we lose a days pay,and so you dont strike willy nilly,you strike after months/often years of shit 'management' and bullying/harasement. the days of red commie wankers getting the workers to walk cos 'someone looked at em wrong' are thankfully long gone,but every strike ive ever been involved with in my 32 years with Royal mail have been long drawn out events that have led to a legal ballot-the fact that every ballot has returned a massive YES vote shows that the cause was true and NEEDED.
yes,strikes cause inconvience to other people but some times in life you have to stand up for yourself and your workmates,cos if you dont no one else will,the post about the classmates standing up for the kid being bullied was spot on.
put it this way,if we was out on a foccers ride out and some cager knocked off one of us,would the rest of you ride round the downed foccer or would you all stop and help? and if that caused the road to be blocked,causing hold ups for the other cagers,would you give a toss? no,your'd be more concerned for the welfare of the poor foccer who's been hurt.its the same to me,you look out for yer mates/work collegue's and if some fuck wit does'nt get it,then sod em :evil
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put it this way,if we was out on a foccers ride out and some cager knocked off one of us,would the rest of you ride round the downed foccer or would you all stop and help?
Suuuuch an opportunity for some shit-stirring here - resist, RESIST, RESIST.....Phew, crisis over! :evil :lol
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put it this way,if we was out on a foccers ride out and some cager knocked off one of us,would the rest of you ride round the downed foccer or would you all stop and help?
Suuuuch an opportunity for some shit-stirring here - resist, RESIST, RESIST.....Phew, crisis over! :evil :lol
do it!! ;)
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put it this way,if we was out on a foccers ride out and some cager knocked off one of us,would the rest of you ride round the downed foccer or would you all stop and help?
Suuuuch an opportunity for some shit-stirring here - resist, RESIST, RESIST.....Phew, crisis over! :evil :lol
Cough, cough....
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We've lost two good Union men in the last couple of weeks,
Mick Abbot - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/michael-abbott-9179828.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/michael-abbott-9179828.html)
Tragically Bob Crow - http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/11/bob-crow (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/11/bob-crow)
And earlier in the year Hugh D'Arcy - http://www.scotsman.com/news/obituaries/obituary-hugh-d-arcy-union-leader-and-bricklayer-1-3283178 (http://www.scotsman.com/news/obituaries/obituary-hugh-d-arcy-union-leader-and-bricklayer-1-3283178)
Those who slag of the Unions might want to read their obituaries. If you are getting a decent rate of pay, an eight hour day, paid breaks and holidays, decent welfare facilities, a safe work environment etc etc etc etc etc, well it's probably down to folks like Mick, Bob and Hugh along with all those members whom supported them.
It is of course particularly sad too loose Bob so suddenly. I think it's a big loss, we need more trade unionists with the intelligence, wit and negotiating skills that Bob possessed, and of course above all his absolute integrity.
The RMT membership increased from less than 60,000 to over 80,000 during Bob's time as leader. Speaks for itself really.
A lot of folks will miss Bob.
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Bob Crow was generally respected and loved by his members , says it all really . Its a shame there aren't more people like Bob who was prepared to fight for fair pay and conditions .
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Well Boris was on TV saying he was a decent Chap, bet Boris is happy all the same to see the back of him. Agreed we need more like him employers are getting away with murder these days. And all you feckers who moan it is tough being an employer , try getting by on a basic salary.
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It is dog eat gog out there,
sad news about Bob,did his job well according to his members.
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Well Boris was on TV saying he was a decent Chap, bet Boris is happy all the same to see the back of him.
I won't shed one single tear over her death. She destroyed the NHS and destroyed industry in this country and as far as I am concerned she can rot in hell - Bob Crow commenting on the death of Thatcher.
Boris is a lying Tory wank.
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This is a quote Boris should have made, " I won't shed one single tear over his death. He tried to destroy the London Underground and commerce in London, and as far as I'm concerned he can rot in hell" Boris commenting on Bob Crow's death. I'm pretty sure that is what he would be thinking!
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I don't think that's what he would be thinking, Boris might give the impression of being a bit of a buffoon, but it's just an act and a distraction.
The problem with what Boris said, and perhaps Boris thought people would too stupid to notice, is that yes, Bob was indeed an honourable man and one that stuck up for his members. It's very revealing that Boris should say so, and I do believe he meant what he said.
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Inappropriate topics for dinner conversion,
Religion and politics,
You'll always upset someone...
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Too true! Religion and politics the biggest precipitants of mass murder in history.
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Too true! Religion and politics the biggest precipitants of mass murder in history.
Oh shit here we go... :lurk
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Bob Crow in pictures;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-26526515 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-26526515)
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2014/mar/11/bob-crow-a-life-in-pictures (http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2014/mar/11/bob-crow-a-life-in-pictures)
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do any unionists take any notice of what the general puplics veiw is?
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The unions job is to protect its members , not to curry favour with Joe Public .
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do any unionists take any notice of what the general puplics veiw is?
Trade Unionists are the general public.
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Trade Unionists are the general public.
Unfortunately a dwindling proportion .......
Capitalism is about maximizing profit and to distribute it between the owners of the capital. The main way of achieving that is to minimise the cost of production, which in a labour intensive industry means reducing the workforce and suppressing wages.
Hence the need for unions.
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Capitalism is about maximizing profit and to distribute it between the owners of the capital. The main way of achieving that is to minimise the cost of production, which in a labour intensive industry means reducing the workforce and suppressing wages.
I'd like to point out that there is nothing wrong with owning the capital. I could spend my free capital on a new motorboat but I have invested in a little import/export concern which currently has two lads working 3 days a week (soon to be 5 days)
People can be a little too polarized when it comes to capitalism v socialism or whatever politic.
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Britain's five richest families worth more than poorest 20%
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/mar/17/oxfam-report-scale-britain-growing-financial-inequality (http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/mar/17/oxfam-report-scale-britain-growing-financial-inequality)
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I'd like to point out that there is nothing wrong with owning the capital. I could spend my free capital on a new motorboat but I have invested in a little import/export concern which currently has two lads working 3 days a week (soon to be 5 days)
People can be a little too polarized when it comes to capitalism v socialism or whatever politic.
And someone else will have had to have made that motorboat, providing employment.....
This isn't a 'capitalism v socialism' issue, it's basic economics. Nothing wrong with capital being reinvested, that's the point of it. But as I said, to maximise capital you have to either sell at a higher price, increase production and therefore demand, or reduce costs. Unfortunately, the latter seems to be in fashion. Hence the need for unions.
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And eventually there is nothing left to cut , and your pot is empty .
I'd like to point out that there is nothing wrong with owning the capital. I could spend my free capital on a new motorboat but I have invested in a little import/export concern which currently has two lads working 3 days a week (soon to be 5 days)
People can be a little too polarized when it comes to capitalism v socialism or whatever politic.
And someone else will have had to have made that motorboat, providing employment.....
This isn't a 'capitalism v socialism' issue, it's basic economics. Nothing wrong with capital being reinvested, that's the point of it. But as I said, to maximise capital you have to either sell at a higher price, increase production and therefore demand, or reduce costs. Unfortunately, the latter seems to be in fashion. Hence the need for unions.
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And I need to point out that one of the most successful British companies, John Lewis Partnership/Waitrose, is 'socialist'. A workers' co-operative, the board is made up of workers' representatives, and all of the capital produced by way of profits is shared amongst the workforce, not paid to shareholders.
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And I need to point out that one of the most successful British companies, John Lewis Partnership/Waitrose, is 'socialist'. A workers' co-operative, the board is made up of workers' representatives, and all of the capital produced by way of profits is shared amongst the workforce, not paid to shareholders.
So tell me do you bank with the Co op banking group then?????
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Erm ....... I think you will find that since its last little 'problems' the Co-Op bank is no longer a cooperative, owned by its members :rolleyes
Nearest comparison is a Building Society like the Nationwide. But anyway they are all members co-operatives, not workers co-operatives.
As a customer of the Nationwide, you own part of the organisation. As a customer of Waitrose you don't.
As an employee of the Nationwide, you don't own part of the organisation. As an employee of Waitrose you do.
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And someone else will have had to have made that motorboat, providing employment.....
What do you need employment for in this level of tech advance?!
You make 100.000 fazers and close the factory gates for the next 10 years. Go fishing.
Make blue jeans for all the people.
Capitalism is all about stupid things - like 1000 models of cars, clothes, services, and I see ordinary people doing 2 jobs and not spending time with kids, wifes - which should be the priority. At this level of tech advance, people should work for 2-4 hours tops, everything else is fake. Doing jobs they don't like to buy the things they don't really need.
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What we seem to increasingly have is;
Multi-national companies that don't pay their corporation tax despite making massive profits, increasingly pay large sections of their workforce the minimum wage, now often on a zero hours contract, no paid holidays, no sick pay, no pensions, no benefits whatsoever, and whilst they stuff their boots with cash, those of us who are lucky enougth to have reasonably well paid jobs have to fork out via our taxes to support the employees of these big rich companies.
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And someone else will have had to have made that motorboat, providing employment.....
This isn't a 'capitalism v socialism' issue, it's basic economics. Nothing wrong with capital being reinvested, that's the point of it. But as I said, to maximise capital you have to either sell at a higher price, increase production and therefore demand, or reduce costs. Unfortunately, the latter seems to be in fashion. Hence the need for unions.
That's NOT basic economics. You increase production to suit an increase in demand. Increasing production does not create demand.
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Erm ....... I think you will find that since its last little 'problems' the Co-Op bank is no longer a cooperative, owned by its members :rolleyes
Nearest comparison is a Building Society like the Nationwide. But anyway they are all members co-operatives, not workers co-operatives.
As a customer of the Nationwide, you own part of the organisation. As a customer of Waitrose you don't.
As an employee of the Nationwide, you don't own part of the organisation. As an employee of Waitrose you do.
The CO- OP bank is or was part of the Britainia Building society so as the members own the building socety they have a share in the CO OP bank do they not??
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Wrong way round, lew... The coop took over the brittania - brittania now exists solely as a trading name for the coop.