Author Topic: More problems... non-starter and cutting out. (Read 16729 times)

Lawrence · « **on:** 18 June 2012, 10:05:23 pm »

Had another problem develop this afternoon. Coming home from work I filled up with petrol, same petrol station as usual (same pump even) but when I went to restart the bike just cranked over and over and didn't want to fire. Tried a few times, then waited a minute and tried again, more cranking, then it fired up the instant I pressed the button! Remainder of the journey (another 45 miles ish) it was fine. When I got home I switched it off and tried starting again and it did the same thing. It'll just randomly start working and when it does it fires up straight away. Big backfire out of the exhaust on two occasions but that's just down to all the fuel going through it and not being burnt off I guess.

To add to this, I went for a quick run down the road and when I was turning round in a layby, sitting still in neutral it just conked out - not like a stall, but like I'd turned the ignition off. Once I'd got it going again it rode home perfectly, plenty of power, no missing or anything.

Now this definitely sounds electrical to me, but what could it be? It was wet this morning, but it was wet last week and had no issues then... anyone got any ideas? Need it for work and I can't really afford to have it off the road for any amount of time

Ta very much

limax2 · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 June 2012, 11:23:17 pm »

Sounds electrical to me as well. If you used the side stand when you stopped it could be the cut out switch on the side stand sticking. Worth a quick check.

Lawrence · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 June 2012, 11:26:47 pm »

The side stand stops it cranking though doesn't it?

Might just be water in the coil(s?) from the rain this morning maybe? I'll see how it starts in the morning...

AdieR · « **Reply #3 on:** 19 June 2012, 12:47:15 am »

Worth checking your electrical / ignition circuits for breaks / chafing / corrosion as well as water ingress.
Anything going through plugs / sockets can be a menace.

darrsi · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 June 2012, 01:09:15 am »

Start simple, charge the battery.......and make sure plugs haven't come loose at all, it happens

Also, make sure the rubber flaps in front of the plugs are pushed forward protecting them from water.

red98 · « **Reply #5 on:** 19 June 2012, 06:25:14 am »

a good close inspection of all electriacal connections for anything amiss...take the tank off and check the coil connections.....battery,side stand cut out check the lot

Lawrence · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 June 2012, 08:37:41 am »

Started first push of the button today

So looks like it was water in something, possibly side stand switch or killswitch maybe? I'll go over all the joins with contact cleaner tonight and check plug caps are down firmly, flap things are in the right place etc.

It has now however developed a chirping noise on overrun... I think it's something to do with the clutch mechanism inside the sprocket cover (I had that off yesterday to check out the nut) so need to take that off again and stick a bit of new grease in it.

marksfazer · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 June 2012, 10:52:52 am »

Has it got an alarm or immob?

Lawrence · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 June 2012, 11:07:18 am »

Nope, no fob and no key chip.

marksfazer · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 June 2012, 12:04:57 pm »

Well rules that out then!

Lawrence · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 June 2012, 05:57:52 pm »

Started fine this morning but I've just come out of work and it took aaaages to get it going. I've had to turn it off to go in somewhere and now it won't start again O_o battery is going to die sooner or later.

darrsi · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 June 2012, 07:12:28 pm »

I've found the Fazer to be easier than any bike i've ever had to bump start, have you tried that out of interest?

Battery leads done up tightly?

Lawrence · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 June 2012, 07:21:41 pm »

I've bumped it before (before this problem appeared) no problems, I tried bumping it yesterday and it just didn't want to fire. I'm going to get new plugs tomorrow and try that, I'll also get my meter on the coils etc and see what's up.

red98 · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 June 2012, 07:27:18 pm »

when its not starting see if you have a spark by taking the plug out re-connecting the ht lead and earthing the plug on the engine fins and turn the engine over with iginition on

darrsi · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 June 2012, 09:01:46 pm »

Just read your original post again, i don't s'pose you've had your tank up, or off, at all and perhaps kinked a fuel pipe?
And are you getting the clicking noise of the fuel pump when ignition is turned on?
I'm wondering if it's fuel starvation?
Doubt very much if it's the actual plugs, a clean up and checking the gaps will probably be okay for them.

Lawrence · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 June 2012, 11:14:48 pm »

Red: Last time I tried that it was the one time it actually started up

I'll give it another go tomorrow.
Darrsi: I have had the tank off/up, but not for a couple of days before this started. I'm pretty sure it's electrical from the way it'll crank over without a hint of firing for ages, then just as you're about to give up you hit it one more time and bingo it fires up instantly! Plugs look a bit scabby so I don't think a new set will hurt and for the sake of a tenner or so it does at worst rule them out.

CRH · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 June 2012, 11:19:33 pm »

if i was you i would re.check the pipes under tank??......could be restricting fuel...or breather pipe trapped causing vacuum in tank?

Lawrence · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 June 2012, 11:21:57 pm »

I'll definitely take a look at that tomorrow, want to check out the pump/relay while I'm under there.
As for breathers, there aren't any

just two connectors on the bottom of the tank... I know they're not blocked though because I tipped the tank up a bit too far last time it was off and petrol leaked out of them

CRH · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 June 2012, 11:31:19 pm »

to chk for any vacuum in tank?...when youve had it running for a bit and it stops on you?...open filler cap and see if it hisssses? if it does?....it shudnt???

...thats what could be happenin ? you run for a bit ?..then it Stops?.. if it was a vacuum problem it would stop fuel going to carbs?....intermittantly!!

Lawrence · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 June 2012, 11:36:21 pm »

It's only cut out once, but that was more like hitting the killswitch than fuel starvation - it just died, no spluttering/rough running. It has failed to start twice now when leaving petrol stations, so there shouldn't be a vacuum immediately after filling up.
Fairly sure it's electrical, got a feeling it's plugs or pump but will have to do some investigation tomorrow.

CRH · « **Reply #20 on:** 19 June 2012, 11:42:15 pm »

whilst you at it ?...chk for water in petrol?

darrsi · « **Reply #21 on:** 20 June 2012, 07:02:14 am »

For the record 99.9% Isopropyl Alcohol binds with water in the fuel tank, and then it gets burnt off.

I put 200ml in every full tank of fuel over winter otherwise it suffers from carb icing, not only does it get rid of any water it also lowers the freezing point.

But that's a totally different story..........

Lawrence · « **Reply #22 on:** 20 June 2012, 02:02:44 pm »

Just tried it, pump primed fine but no spark on cranking! What's the prime suspect for this? Do these bikes have one coil or 2/4? Anything else that can get tempramental and give results like this?

CRH · « **Reply #23 on:** 20 June 2012, 03:24:43 pm »

2 coils...and yes! it could be your ecu playing up?....rarely give bother though?...even if one coil had gone down?...i would have thought it would still start>...albiet only on 2 cylinders?......one for mr blade or red98 me thinks??

CRH · « **Reply #24 on:** 20 June 2012, 03:30:07 pm »

your ecu is tucked away under seat behind your toolkit!!!....chk if the plugs to it are tight and that its bone dry?....not much else you can do but try another if its suspect?.......couple on ebay for £10.00........