deja vu !

[keno]

I put a K&N filter in my bike 4 years ago with bog standard exhaust ran spot on, i have since changed the exhaust twice with stubby race cans and apart from popping on decel bike still runs perfect.
Just thought i would put that in the mix..

[glynblue2]

When you say you have checked the plugs have you tried actually changing them? holding plugs onto a head and checking for a spark is NOT the way to check a plug is okay plus which have you checked the plug cap resistances,and also checking what colour the plugs are is a useless procedure if its not done correctly.as in its no use checking them when its been idling as there is a set procedure for checking plugs which is called a plug chop.

[ade the blade]

Out of curosity, will it rev with the choke on?

will rev very slightly better, but nothing near perfect. thanks

[ade the blade]

I put a K&N filter in my bike 4 years ago with bog standard exhaust ran spot on, i have since changed the exhaust twice with stubby race cans and apart from popping on decel bike still runs perfect.
Just thought i would put that in the mix..

dont doubt it mate.........thats why i m baffled ( forgive the pun ) as filter has been in bike at least 2yrs prior to this without a hiccup. thanks anyway

[ade the blade]

When you say you have checked the plugs have you tried actually changing them? holding plugs onto a head and checking for a spark is NOT the way to check a plug is okay plus which have you checked the plug cap resistances,and also checking what colour the plugs are is a useless procedure if its not done correctly.as in its no use checking them when its been idling as there is a set procedure for checking plugs which is called a plug chop.

ok...just to clarify matters, plugs have been renewed as stated in initial post. cap resistors checked with multimeter. with regards plug check, i do know that bike idling for a long period of time will give a false reading ( usually nice and sooty ), thats why i managed to find a quiet stretch of road. took out plugs, cleaned and refitted. started bike and gave it a good blast up the road and killed the engine with kill switch and drifted ( coasted) to a nice silent halt. took out plugs and checked. otherwise known as a plug chop if i remember !!

[Bracechenko]

OK, some suggestions...

- Have you checked the inlet rubbers? Can't remember if you've answered that question but they can split and would cause your symptoms. Spray some WD40 on them whilst idling and see if the engine tickover changes. If it does, they're leaking

- By any chance has this all been during damp weather (god knows when!?!) as in the wet before I found that the spark was arking from a plug cap to the rubber flap as it was too close

- Could it be crap fuel? I know you've cleaned out the whole system but maybe it was a shite bit of fuel?

I'm out of ideas now lol 

[ade the blade]

okey dokey...........now that the steam has stopped blasting out of my lugs, here is episode 2. managed to get a few hours in again to tinker about and tried out a few bods ideas. e;g refitting original air filter. all to no avail unfortunately. however, having studied plugs yet again ( bit of a sore point right now ) they did look very slightly `lean` so i went ahead and partially (approx 2/3 ) blocked off air intake with duct tape and took it out for a plug test . sure enough, as expected, plugs were becoming nicely(?) sooted. so i decided to give it a short test ride. apart from a very small hesitation at 4000 rpm, it managed to get up to the dizzy heights of 6000 !! and 70-80 mph (compared to the original 4000 rpm and 50 top end ) and then bogged once again .......no higher. still unable to give it a good handful if needs be. so apart from finally confirming its running pretty lean, im still at a loss,.........................................soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo let the suggestions flow please. ( ak47 is loaded ready tonight   ) cheers once again Ade

[ade the blade]

OK, some suggestions...

- Have you checked the inlet rubbers? Can't remember if you've answered that question but they can split and would cause your symptoms. Spray some WD40 on them whilst idling and see if the engine tickover changes. If it does, they're leaking
all checked out............used 2 cans of carb cleaner nearly !!!!
- By any chance has this all been during damp weather (god knows when!?!) as in the wet before I found that the spark was arking from a plug cap to the rubber flap as it was too close
no sorry........bike has been kept in the dry.
- Could it be crap fuel? I know you've cleaned out the whole system but maybe it was a shite bit of fuel
doubt it mate, as at one point i siphoned all fuel out and run it through the other bikes with no probs whatsoever.
I'm out of ideas now lol    hey....i`m more than grateful for everybodys ideas/suggestions to get this b............ running sweet again

[Bracechenko]

It's a real puzzler!?!

Just thinking logically, it's lack of fuel or too much air. As you've studied those carbs in HUGE detail it's just got to be a leak somewhere along the air intake system. God knows where but perhaps there's a crack or god knows what at some point from filter to inlet?

You know that the bike runs fine with a K&N so it's not that. I just feel that you're clearly quite knowledgeable (way so more than me) so the obvious things have already been checked. That leaves the unusual and not so obvious things left I guess?

[ade the blade]

It's a real puzzler!?!

Just thinking logically, it's lack of fuel or too much air. As you've studied those carbs in HUGE detail it's just got to be a leak somewhere along the air intake system. God knows where but perhaps there's a crack or god knows what at some point from filter to inlet?

You know that the bike runs fine with a K&N so it's not that. I just feel that you're clearly quite knowledgeable (way so more than me) so the obvious things have already been checked. That leaves the unusual and not so obvious things left I guess?

quite right my mate..............probably linked in some way to the slightly warped front rotors

[Bracechenko]

  Well best of luck anyway, my time to stand down methinks hehehe!

[red98]

evening all...iam now pretty sure we have the same problem,iam also sure we`re in the right area....carbs...in my last post on my topic i was going to check the inlet rubbers again,as the carbs are off the bike at the moment this will be easy.ill be looking at the rubber o ring between head and rubber and may use a smear of sealent...i like you are running out of ideas....when you`ve finished with the ak47 could i borrow it. 

[Major Rant]

Mouse nesting in the exhaust ? (probably now an ex-mouse  ).
 
Certainly sounds like an obstruction somewhere.
 
 

[ade the blade]

evening all...iam now pretty sure we have the same problem,iam also sure we`re in the right area....carbs...in my last post on my topic i was going to check the inlet rubbers again,as the carbs are off the bike at the moment this will be easy.ill be looking at the rubber o ring between head and rubber and may use a smear of sealent...i like you are running out of ideas....when you`ve finished with the ak47 could i borrow it.

ammo in the post ready mate !!
 

[red98]

cheers......boom,boom

[ratfazer]

Is the TPS connected?  Maybe the fuel filter "inside" the tank is gummed up not allowing enough fuel through?.  Could be a bad earth?  these are all i can suggest good luck mate.

[clayt74]

sorry i was talkin utter BS   

[ade the blade]

sorry i was talkin utter BS 

lost me now mate !

[ade the blade]

Is the TPS connected?  Maybe the fuel filter "inside" the tank is gummed up not allowing enough fuel through?.  Could be a bad earth?  these are all i can suggest good luck mate.

tps checked and connected......tank gauze filter fine.............been through leccy system with a lot of patience, all fine from what i see.
thanks for taking time to add input   Ade

[red98]

thinking out loud....ive been searching on ebay for fazer bits,mainly carbs and coils,although you cant gaurentee any of the parts i still think a cheap set of carbs/coils will help in problem solving,and you can always sell them on afterwards...iam watching a few ads and might make a bid if its cheap.....would`nt want to keep the parts on my bike,purly for problem solving.......

[Fazerider]

If it's getting starved of fuel at larger throttle openings then, since you're sure the float bowls are supplied, I can only think it's the slides failing to rise which could be due to an obstruction in the pipe supplying air to the underside of the diaphragms. Is the path from the airbox via the little gauze filter clear? (Clutching at straws here, I doubt you'd have missed that since you've had 'em to bits so many times... also it doesn't tally with the performance improving slightly when you partially blocked the airbox intake.)
I agree with Red98, once brain power has failed to diagnose the cause of the problem, eliminating suspects by substitution usually gets results. Ideally from a trusting foccer nearby who is prepared to lend his vehicle as a source of known good bits rather than by buying possibly equally duff items off eBay.  
TPS, CDI and carbs would be top of the swaps in my book.


I also wonder if we're following red herrings and the cause is elsewhere entirely: inlet valve timing slipped a tooth or two late perhaps? Did you check the timing as well as the clearances?

[red98]

yes much better to use know parts from a friends bike,but friends like that are few and far between,if i get mine sorted this weekend i would be happy to swap parts to get yours sorted...where are you ?
  think i`ll still take a chance on the ebay parts they will have to be cheap though......

[ade the blade]

hello, good evening and welcome once again to red and ades fu...... fazer corner folks !! well ive had a little read of the last few posts and totally agree with fazerider and red with regards aquiring test parts. it seems the only option now. i have the same problem with regards other local fazer riding mates....................none. ( would be spoilt for choice if it was a bloody fiesta !! ) anyway, before i forget, fazerider, the valve timing was double checked anyway whilst the cover was off for clearances and yep all was lined up nicely with my own timing marks. thanks anyway. now for some new info that may or may not have some bearing on this bloody ongoing farce. i thought id re-check all the ignition circuit once again ( out of sheer boredom really ) but this time used my neighbours multimeter to confirm or indeed rule out my one being on the blink. guess what? everything on both the meters apart from both yes both coil primary / low tension circuits read the same resistance. however, the reading for these were within spec on my meter, but with the neighbours meter ( both digital by the way ) showed a different story. according to shop manual resistance should be between 1.87 and 2.53 ohms . both were giving a reading of between 4.5 and 5 ohms. according to yam workshop manual, its bin time. so now i have 2 questions for you if you aint lost the will to live yet   1)  i would accept one coil breaking down at some point, but two together ? 2) if this is relevant in any way, what connection, if any could this possibly have with improving performance slightly by blocking off part of the air intake ? please discuss. sorry its long winded but obviously kicked off too early on the magners tonight. burp.............scuse me !

[red98]

not too good on electrics plus its been a long week....are you saying that both multimeters are giving readings between 4.5 and 5.0....if thats the case i would say there pretty close and as you say bin time,as regards both coils failing together,could one faulty coil put extra load on the other OR is there one faulty coil affecting the performance of the other.......the improved performance when blocking  the air supply,i think ,is a bit of a red herring,but if the coils have failed this could well be your problem

[ade the blade]

evening mate.............long week alright ! both coils were in spec on my meter, but coil A ( plugs 1 and 4 ) showed approx 4.5 and coil B ( 2 and 3 plugs ) approx 5.0 on his meter. and it was a nice newish all singing- all dancing bugger.........snob . think tour poss right mate with regards filter red herring ( or should that be manky bloater   ) any joy with your machine anyway?