Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: Bitfik on 26 February 2013, 08:37:15 pm
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Hi, I have never had a pillion passenger, but that may be about to change, and to be quite honest about it I'm quite worried about it.
From even the simplest things like mounting/dismounting, cornering (both at normal road speeds and in slow corners and tight turns and roundabouts), being stopped etc... I guess straight lines won't be a problem tho lol.
Obviously I'll be careful, but am I worrying too much? How is it to ride with a pillion? And do you guys have any hints or tips to help?
Cheers in advance for even the most simple and obvious sounding hints, they will all be appreciated!
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don't do it !!!!!
Seriously though, my eldest is going through this at the moment.
Don't do it until you know your bike and how to ride etc etc etc
Once you have that, you get on the bike first, both feet down and then let the sucker (pillion) climb on the back however they feel fit.
Once on, take it VERY slowly to start with as EVERYTHING will be different. Handling, ride, braking, acceleration etc. Build up speed as you get used to it. Job done.
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Just take it easy and render everything takes longer with the extra weight. Acetate and brake gradually applying rear brake as slowing down. Try and be smooth otherwise you will start to bang helmets.
Get it right and its a great experience to share.
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ive taken many pillion passengers for rides,be careful of fat birds :eek :eek :eek take my daughter out whos probs about 7st and dont know shes on there....take it easy at first once you get going you`ll be ok........also worth checking your insurence to see if it covers a pillion :) .....some dont but can be added at extra cost :rolleyes
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Depending on how comfortable you are/your pillion is:
a.) for new riders/pillions. Basically ride as though it's wet, accelerate more gently, brake more gently (you can use the back brake a lot more too with someone on the back without it locking), and don't lean the bike over as much.
Mounting, I get on the bike, both feet on the floor, get the pillion to put their left leg on the left peg and swing over. Once they're on and settled, I pull off - that's the only bit I'm not a fan of as with heavier pillions, the bars are much lighter than normal if you've not adjusted the preload to compensate. You'll probably want to tell them that before they get off, they need to check with you to make sure it's ok!
Cornering with people on I don't really find much different, slow speed stuff is a bit trickier, particularly u-turns.
General advice that you might want to tell first time pillioners - stay relatively still, particularly at low speed stuff. Stay behind the rider (and be warned, 95% of people i've had on the back for the first time have at the first corner, have leaned the wrong way to begin with).
If they're only little/particularly nervous, I'd get them to hang on around your waist, makes people feel more comfortable, but also means they don't tend to lean the wrong way as much if they do. For bigger guys/more experienced people, I prefer them holding onto the grab rails/grab strap as you don't get as much weight transfer onto your arms when braking (not particularly a massive issue with an upright bike, but was seriously painful with heavy people under heavy braking on my old Ninja 900)
That said, once you get used to it, you can have some great fun with people on the back, I've a few female mates who love it on the back that I take out quite often and I much prefer riding with them to riding alone - you have someone to talk to (i've got a set of headsets i use specifically for this purpose, they're also good for new pillioners as you can talk to them, let them know what you're up to and generally reassure them), which is nice for cruising along, and you can also ride quite hard, albeit it in a different way with someone on the back - you get a lot more rear grip, so you can accelerate bloody hard out of corners without the rear skipping up!
Personally, started at 7ish on the back of my dad's bike and loved it, he took it carefully to begin with, and now he's at the point where he doesn't really notice if I'm on the back really (which led to an interesting occasion once where he was grinding his footpeg out, having actually forgot I was behind him!)
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Way back in history, when telly was black and white, I used to tell the pillion to "pretend you're a sack of spuds".
Also when approaching bends, to close eyes (so they don't try to lean the wrong way).
Worked a treat - one of my first girlfriends was so good, I often forgot she was there!
That was on a 1964 Triumph Tiger 100!!!!
Cheers
Harry
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You might want to bump up the preload on the rear spring a notch or two.
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Once u get the hang of 2up riding a family bike day is possible :eek
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I take a pillion on a regular basis, usually with a 52ltr topbox and occasionally also with 2x 36 panniers on top.
I'm a short arse and weigh 11st, my pillion weighs about the same. With practice it became second nature, so anybody can do it.
I adjust the way I ride and I'm definitely steadier but I don't avoid overtaking or filtering but that confidence has come with practice and advanced training, which if you haven't done already I'd thoroughly recommend. I live in London so filtering and slow speed stuff is unavoidable so I crank up the preload to suit the load and it's all quite manageable. In regards to u-turns etc, it helps if you're already confident doing slow manouvers solo. Plenty of practice and taking it easy to begin with is the way to go.
Mounting and dismounting needs getting used to, especially if there's luggage that can make it awkward. The bike can move around quite a bit depending on how good your pillion is, so it helps to be able to have both feet firmly on the ground (beware of gravel etc). There's no harm in practicing mounting & dismounting with your pillion, especially if the pillion is new to it all. My pillion is far better now at getting on and off than a few years ago, bear in mind that they need practice at pillioning too.
I'm also very clear with my pillion that she may only mount and dismount when I say so (hehe), that way I can be ready and can ensure it's safe for them. We usually talk about it after so we can give each other a bit feedback to improve the next time.
Still, the main thing for me is making sure I'm in the right state of mind to deal with the extra responsibility and that I act accordingly. My objective is to get my pillion to the destination safely, comfortably and that we both enjoy it. It can be great fun :)
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Ask if they're ready to go before you pull off, so that they're not adjusting thir glove or something, and wait for a verbal response. When getting off its the other way round. Make sure they wait for you to say 'off you get' before they dismount. Some people seem to think that because your stationary its ok to get off not knowing that your just about to hit your biting point on the clutch!!!
Also, have a signal they can give if they want to stop for any reason, even if they're just a bit uncomfortable and want a stretch. A simple double tap on your side and you can find a safe place to stop. It really helps with first timers confidence if they know that they can stop the bike safely by communicating with you, especially on motorways etc.
Finally if theyre anything like my missus ask them not to give the finger to cars that cut you up. Makes for awkward moments at the next set of lights
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Always good to set up a signal system with each other. I used to ride pillion on my dads bike a lot. If i tapped his left leg then I wanted him to slow down or if I tapped 3 times it meant stop. I'd tap his right leg to let him know I was ready to go. I would wait to get on or off the bike until he got his feet down and gave me a nod to say he was ready. Simple. tell them to sit there like a sack of potatoes and not fidget as it can unsettle the bike if they're bouncing about. Also warn them about the fact your helmets might bang off each other a bit but not to worry about it.
Things I wish i'd been warned of before getting on a bike are the wind noise is something I wasn't expecting and also remind them to relax, tell them not to hold on too tight,either to you or the grab rails as they'll get sore hands. I always prefered holding around the riders waist with both hands but the grab rail can be handy when going slower. if they go for both hands around you tell them to put their hands back to back, one to push on the tank while braking (so they don't slide forward and squash your gentlemans gentleman) and one to brace against you while accelerating.
As others have said, relax, take your time and enjoy it. you'll be fine. nice deep breaths buddy! 8)
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To add to the good advice so far, I tell first time pillions to hold on to my waist which as well as helping to keep them in line with me it also allows me to know how happy they are as a pillion if they are not they hold on tight. I also tell them to watch the back of my helmit to start of with if they are following my movements it is more like just having a heavy ruck sack on.
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First rule of taking a pillion, you are carrying precious cargo. You are totally responsible for someone elses life.
Lots of good advice in the posts above.
I hope you both really enjoy it.
Cheers
John
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as all ready stated communication is key, especially with mount/dismount, always have both feet firmly planted.
I also give the missus a quick tap on her left leg before hard acceleration whn looking to overtake.
I also found these love handles work great to help them stay inline with you also for their own comfort
www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_888471_langId_-1_categoryId_165547 (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_888471_langId_-1_categoryId_165547)
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not taken anyone pillion on my fazer yet as still learning the bike itself but did on my others
must say on my yamaha RXS had a larger female on the back and had to lean over the front handle bars to pull off & brake! :o
on my F650 another lady seemed to love the thump of the big single cylinder! :D
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yes I had a girlfriend like that, but she didn't have to pretend, she was a sack of spuds?????????????
Way back in history, when telly was black and white, I used to tell the pillion to "pretend you're a sack of spuds".
Also when approaching bends, to close eyes (so they don't try to lean the wrong way).
Worked a treat - one of my first girlfriends was so good, I often forgot she was there!
That was on a 1964 Triumph Tiger 100!!!!
Cheers
Harry
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Just a point about insurance, back in the 70's they made pillion insurance compulsory, I'd say it still is? I think they ask you if you carry a pillion just to asses your risk? I may be wrong, anybody know for a fact?
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I have taken my son on the back since he was 4. To start with it was only sunny sunday evenings, 20mph up and down the cul-de-sac, then around the village, slowly getting him used to bikes as he got older. I used to unzip my side pockets on my leather jacket and let him grip onto the pocket opening so he had something to hold onto properly as his arms were to short to reach round me. We had a system of tugs on my jacket, 2 to slow down, 4 to stop etc.
He is now a strapping great 17 yr old with his own bike, he grew up loving bikes and still rides nearly every day dispite having an 'off' last autumn.
Some pillion passengers are better than others, I can recommend them putting one hand on the tank though, it stops a lot of helmet banging lol
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Get them to sit as close to you as possible to centre the weight on the bike and stop buffeting at speed.
Mind the front brake as the forks will dive like hell and the steering goes a bit wobbly at low speed.
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i passed my test last year and the missus loves going out on the back of the bike, like they have all said take it easy at first, i had some practice in a industrial estate first, pc plod was sat in his car watching me going round in circles lol,
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Just a point about insurance, back in the 70's they made pillion insurance compulsory, I'd say it still is? I think they ask you if you carry a pillion just to asses your risk? I may be wrong, anybody know for a fact?
That's an interesting point... wouldn't a pillion be considered a third party? I pay extra for pillion cover but as you say Chaz that could simply reflect an assessment of higher risk by the insurance co.
The bottom line though is that even if pillion cover is compulsory by law and is there already, if you take a pillion and told the insurance co that you don't, you'd be breaching their terms of your cover. This would most likely lead to your insurance being voided.
So my understanding is that if you ever take a pillion, your insurance company absolutely must know about it.
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Just a point about insurance, back in the 70's they made pillion insurance compulsory, I'd say it still is? I think they ask you if you carry a pillion just to asses your risk? I may be wrong, anybody know for a fact?
That's an interesting point... wouldn't a pillion be considered a third party? I pay extra for pillion cover but as you say Chaz that could simply reflect an assessment of higher risk by the insurance co.
The bottom line though is that even if pillion cover is compulsory by law and is there already, if you take a pillion and told the insurance co that you don't, you'd be breaching their terms of your cover. This would most likely lead to your insurance being voided.
So my understanding is that if you ever take a pillion, your insurance company absolutely must know about it.
not sure about the law but when i last renewed my thou insurance they asked me if i wanted pillion insurance i said no and saved £15 :)
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H guys, thanks for all the great tips and advice. Still not sure it will happen, but if it does it will be when the weather turns nice and I have shaken off the winter rustiness from not riding very often.
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Just a point about insurance, back in the 70's they made pillion insurance compulsory, I'd say it still is? I think they ask you if you carry a pillion just to asses your risk? I may be wrong, anybody know for a fact?
I have no need or intention to carry a pillion, so I got it taken off my insurance which made it about £15 cheaper.
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I've taken loads of pillions and can agree with most of what has been said.
Other points to watch out for - braking - if it takes them by surprise you will bang crash helmets together. This will quickly become annoying, so make sure they anticipate your braking and can push back at the right moment. I often ask them to look over my shoulder and see when I might brake.
If they are a new pillion, the pre briefing is everything. It gives them confidence in your ability as well. Take it slowly, there's a lot to sink in. One other thing to mention is to let them know that they don't need to put their foot down when you stop.
You'll quickly get used to it, and as already said, a lightweight nimble pillion is a delight. I sometimes carry a very experienced one, and she out-leans me in the corners :-)
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I've taken loads of pillions and can agree with most of what has been said.
Other points to watch out for - braking - if it takes them by surprise you will bang crash helmets together. This will quickly become annoying, so make sure they anticipate your braking and can push back at the right moment. I often ask them to look over my shoulder and see when I might brake.
If they are a new pillion, the pre briefing is everything. It gives them confidence in your ability as well. Take it slowly, there's a lot to sink in. One other thing to mention is to let them know that they don't need to put their foot down when you stop.
You'll quickly get used to it, and as already said, a lightweight nimble pillion is a delight. I sometimes carry a very experienced one, and she out-leans me in the corners :-)
What do you say for your pre first ride briefing? :)
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With insurance on a car you don't have to say you having passengers so why should you with a bike made to carry pillions ?
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With insurance on a car you don't have to say you having passengers so why should you with a bike made to carry pillions ?
Its a shit one, but its because they make the rules, and you are a slave to them.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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With insurance on a car you don't have to say you having passengers so why should you with a bike made to carry pillions ?
A very good point and one I thought about myself but a car passenger can do little to influence the direction of a car unlike a pillion who might freak and lean the wrong way etc. sitting in a car takes little to no skill whereas to be a pillion requires quite a bit thus making it more risky and there for insurance is more for the higher risk. There are a lot of people I wouldn't take on my bike that i'd happily take as a passenger in my car... there are some people who are not welcome in that either though! haha
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I took a mate for a spirited ride round some back roads, and got a decent lean on round a bend (with clear sight of what was round the bend).
What I didn't see was the egg sized stone in the middle of the road which I hit because I couldn't adjust the bike's lean angle in time as we were two up. Hit the stone, front wheel skipped out, my right foot instinctively pushed out to prop us up, it hit the ground and was thrown back up and backwards into my mates shin.
How the FOC we got round that bend rubber side down I'll never know, my mate thought it was brilliant, so he is obviously an idiot :)
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How the FOC we got round that bend rubber side down I'll never know, my mate thought it was brilliant, so he is obviously an idiot :)
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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What do you say for your pre first ride briefing?
I take things in logical order:
1. Make sure they are properly kitted up. The helmet fits and they are properly protected. Show how the visor lifts up and down. Make sure they are wearing gloves, even if it is a hot day and they don't want to. You will probably need to fasten the helmet for them, and make sure it is secure.
2. Getting on and off - Explain that you get on first, then they get on by placing foot on footpeg (point to it) with hand on your shoulder to steady. Afterwards, they get off first, likewise their hand on your shoulder. Assure them that you will be able to hold the bike upright while they do this.
3. Pulling away - Explain the forces of acceleration will make them lean backwards so explain they temporarily need to lean forwards to counter it. Agree method showing grab rails, and/or holding around waist. Show how to hold grab rails. Tell them they can use either methods and switch between, whichever they are more comfortable with.
4. Follow this up with explanation of braking and that they will move forwards so need to lean backwards. Again show grab rail method and waist method.
5. Tell them that you will take it slowly (very slowly) at first and will only increase speed if they indicate that they are happy with it. Agree method of communication, so that they can let you know how they are feeling, and you can indicate what you are about to do. Can be intercom, tap on shoulder, squeezing their thighs ;) , your hand on their knee :b or whatever. Tell them to observe over your shoulder and anticipate.
6. Agree with them where you are going - how far and for how long.
7. Explain that when you stop at traffic lights etc, you will put your feet down, and they don't need to. Tell them to keep both feet on the pegs throughout
8. Explain corners and leaning. This is the bit that may worry them the most. Show how it works with the bike stationary. Say that it is nothing to worry about and bikes are meant to work like that. Tell them just to follow you. As said, it helps if they are holding onto your waist. Explain that they may feel the bike is falling over, but it won't. Take the first few corners slowly, and be prepared for them to try to correct the lean, or at least wobble a bit. With your experience and a slow speed it shouldn't cause any problems. If they do it a few times, stop and explain to them again. The first corner will be quite a telling factor.
9. Explain that for much of the time, while cruising, they can relax but to always anticipate.
10. After a small distance (half a mile-ish ?) stop the bike and check they are OK with what has been going on so far. Even if they show no signs of panic. Depending on how they are, you might want to do this again. Gradually build up the levels of acceleration, lean and top speed depending on the feedback you are getting about how comfortable they feel.
That's about it. Gain their confidence and enjoy. I've never had anyone who didn't want a second go :)
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A very good points list to go through with someone. Alway worth going over it the first couple of times someone comes out too. 8)
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I think the only thing I can think of that hasn't been mentioned is that if the pillion wants to look over your shoulder, to look over your left. This allows you to still perform life-savers without them being in the way :)
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All I'd say is don't. But if you have to, and now and again I've had to,
Much as said above.
Take it all easy, my three main thoughts
1. Think about how you will stop in a hurry, it's much much harder with a pillion, which in turn should make you realise you need to take things much easier and really think ahead.
2. How they hold on, make sure they know how to hang on with their thighs as well as their hands, it can make quite a difference.
3. Know how to steer your bike, so no matter what your pillion decides to do you can place the bike exactly where you want it. If you don't know what that means - ask.
Yeah weight - taking 7 stone pillions, well you need to try and remember that they are their, often the terrified screams remind you that you have a pillion (ops - sorry!). I don't mind the light ones, but the fat bastards are a real pain to carry, it's hard work, and you need to take it very easy just in case the unexpected happens.
Have fun.
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Good points about left shoulders and particularly fat bastards, but I don't carry them :)
On the bit about emergency stopping with a pillion, yes much harder, and brace yourself against the inevitable clatter as they bang into the back of you.
Lastly, watch out for ones that fall asleep on the back. Yes it does happen .....
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Just crack on and get them on the back. Not a big deal really. Bike just feels a bit heavier. I found the fazer coped well 2 up and I could still fling it round a bit with the missus on the back. Get used to bashing helmets!!!!!!!!
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My son used to sit up in corners then I invented the dad rule, if we are leaning left chin on my left shoulder, right chin on my right shoulder, hes a natural now.
the only thing I dont like about carrying a poillion on the fazer is below 5mph the front end feels very loose and its difficult to crawl or sty still for a second at junction approches.
Enjoy the dad rule.
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My son used to sit up in corners then I invented the dad rule, if we are leaning left chin on my left shoulder, right chin on my right shoulder, hes a natural now.
the only thing I dont like about carrying a poillion on the fazer is below 5mph the front end feels very loose and its difficult to crawl or sty still for a second at junction approches.
Enjoy the dad rule.
Its not just me then, I have the same on my thou Gen2 with a pillion!!
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I take my son or my wife regularly as a pillion. The best thing ive found is a set of love handles (the belt with handles but ive got the skin and fat ones too). If im with the missus and brake to hard i end up with me nuts on the tank and her weight behind me so i try not to do it to often. The real key is to be as smooth as you can and get them to sit still. My son has occasionally figeted as we go round a roundabout at low speed. that gets your bum sqeaking. Clutchless shifts save you getting nutted to the back of your head when you get it right. of course the best thing is practice for you and your pillion. Good luck and enjoy
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I started riding with a Pillion the day after i passed my test, i knew that she would always be on the back so i wanted to get used to it as quickly as possible.
i usually get myself set (leave side stand down in case they are heavier than you expect) and hold the front brake to stop the bike rolling forward.
get the to get on like you would a horse, then hold onto the grabrail if you have one, or you if you have the Love handles mentioned above....
The first time my mrs hit me in the back of the head, i pulled over told her if she did it again she'd be walking back......
ive attached a link from MCN with some hints and tips
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/RidingEvents/ridingeventsresults/Riding-skills/2006/November/Aug17-05-How-to-ride-with-a-pillion-incorrect-pics/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/RidingEvents/ridingeventsresults/Riding-skills/2006/November/Aug17-05-How-to-ride-with-a-pillion-incorrect-pics/)
hope it works...
Good luck!
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Well I've had big girls, thin girls and even the occasional man on the back of mine and its been no problem really with any of them.
Take it slow and easy and tell them to relax and go with the flow of the bike, brake early and lightly as required, use plenty of clutch and throttle to stabilise at slower speeds and mainly don't worry too much about it.
I had my sister in law on it once and she was shitin herself. That translated to speed wobbles ajd twitching that I was finding difficult to control. Thankfully it was only a run along a b road to let her see what it was like. Any longer and I w9uld have stopped and told her to calm it but before that could happen I had her back home again but in the main people generally are ok if you explain what you want them to do on the back i.e. reach down for the heater, grab chest area for extra safety, stay close ajd rub up and down subtly for extra comfort. It turned the girls liked doing that as well. ESPECIALLY the sister in law.
Ooh err
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I always make sure I am settled on bike, feet planted well out, give a thumbs up for pillion to mount bike......
at end of ride, I plant my feet give a thumbs up meaning its ok to get off and pillion dismounts......
Otherwise same advice as above..........
......its no fun if pillion decides to jump off and you aint ready !!!!!!
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ive taken many pillion passengers for rides,be careful of fat birds :eek :eek :eek
(http://cdn.bikechatforums.com/files/fat-bike1-599x394_163.jpg)