Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: gfurm on 21 April 2020, 08:13:29 pm
-
Hi,
Need advice on the subject. I think the chain on my Fazer is an original one as it got DID 50VN7 stamped on the link. Bike has done 17k miles.I'm pretty sure chain needs changning. It's lost some o-rings and mesures more than 152mm between 10 links (manual says max is 150mm).Front sprocket has plastic/rubber bits missing all over but the teeth are OK, that probably needs changing as well.Rear looks fine, no excessive wear to teeth.
Quesion is, will new 530 chain fit properly on original sprocket? Is this 50NV7 different size or is it just called different due to age? I can't seem to find any info on it.
-
hello im not sure of much but i do know if ur changing a chain or sprocket u need to change it all front rear sprocket and chain need to be new. I think thats what ur looking for.
-
Here's my story, I changed last year, chain had rights spots but like you the sprocket were ok apart from the plastic breaking away on the front, I did everything anyway
Forgot to add the link. Here you are http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=25205.25 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=25205.25)
-
Just to add support - It’s pretty much the same rule for bicycles as well -change cassette , chain and chainring at same time unless chain itself has been regularly replaced. So it’s best to do the lot - in future you can get away without having to repeat all this by replacing chain only well ahead of schedule.
-
It best practice to change the sprockets at the same time you change the chain, less then say 2k ok but after 17k no brainer. If you don't it will reduce the chain life considerably, depending how bad they're drastically. It's your money.
I quality chain, properly maintained, ridden as many do, weekends, holiday in the dry should easily last 25k, many don't why......................
They're over and incorrectly adjusted, use aerosol lub that turns to a sticky paste. Yes the stuff sticks, yes it lubs but it's also a magnet for grit, and grit added to paste turns into grinding paste. They're dry lubs, these are silicon mixes, some are good others crap, for good ones, they're expensive, need applying every few hundred miles, they're better than sticky non fling aerosols, but need applying more often and for good one's bloody expensive. If expense is not an issue and you like a spotless bike, ride only high days, holidays in the dry, these are the way to go.
If your more like many of us, the best thing is plain old engine oil, yes it's not as convenient, needs to be done every 500 miles or so more if its wet, but it's better. As the grit is washed off, cheaper, you've already used the oil ;) Better still fit a Scottoiler (SO) and use the old engine oil. Many are put off by SO's, as nearly all are fitted and set up very badly by stealers or owners, which means they over oil, flood or don't oil.
I've lost count of the number of units I've fitted, to every type of bike, a good few to dispatch bikes that cover huge mileages, 30k plus yearly. I've had bikes in fitted new chain/spockets and a SO, they were still on the same chain at 45k, these bikes are ridden in all weathers, Busa's with 30k, one had 38k on the chain, same for R1's, GSX-R's, ZX's etc, all in excess of 25k. Chains with correctly fitted/adjusted SO will not need adjusting in 1000's of miles. My XJR hasn't needed adjusting since I fitted the SO to what was a 2k bike when I got it it's now done 6k, my ZX10 was the same fitted at 1,5k it's on 7k now adjusted at 5k.
The other reason is poorly fitted chains in the first place, either by the stealers or owners, it's not as easy as it looks. Poor quality tools and lack of experience and the link is just too tight, that's your chains life cut in half. Best way is endless but that involves major work, but is the best option.
Now if your happy with the convenience your sticky spray lub gives you, don't mind the mess in front sprocket housing/or frame/swingarm etc from over lub, or having to change it more often, you stick with it. It's your money.
If on the other hand, you're on a budget and want to adjust the chain much less, reuse old engine oil, either manually oil or fit a SO. If you don't trust yourself or your local BS to fit the SO drop me a line.
-
aerosol lube that turns to a sticky paste. Yes the stuff sticks, yes it lubs but it's also a magnet for grit, and grit added to paste turns into grinding paste. They're dry lubs, these are silicon mixes, some are good others crap, for good ones, they're expensive, need applying every few hundred miles, they're better than sticky non fling aerosols, but need applying more often and for good one's bloody expensive. If expense is not an issue and you like a spotless bike, ride only high days, holidays in the dry, these are the way to go.
This is me.Which are the good expensive ones you speak of.18 years dry miles only had tight spots at 22k but sprockets were ok. But changed them anyway.
-
Since changing my C&S last year I have adopted the oil route (gear oil ) at the minute I and doing it every 300 miles as per DID recommendations. But even though I don't swamp it and I wipe it after and gear oil is thicker it still flings off and some ends up on the side of the tyre. After the first 50 or so miles its ok but still annoying.
I used to use putolone chain tech - see pictures, but even that still flung off.
(http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20030.0;attach=31014;image)(http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20030.0;attach=31022;image)
(http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20030.0;attach=31026;image)
(http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20030.0;attach=31020;image)
-
I use 80w90 gear oil on my chain these days, which i paint on at the rear sprocket every few weeks or so with a 2 inch paint brush while the chain is still warm after a ride, dependant on the weather (heavy rain). I then just wipe off as much excess as I can with a rag before putting the bike away.
The chain has never been in better shape. Every link remains completely free and no dirt or grit sticks to it at all any more.
Plus by using the paint brush very little oil is needed to cover the whole chain which also only takes about 2 minutes max to do.
-
I use 80w90 gear oil on my chain these days, which i paint on at the rear sprocket every few weeks or so with a 2 inch paint brush while the chain is still warm after a ride, dependant on the weather (heavy rain). I then just wipe off as much excess as I can with a rag before putting the bike away.
The chain has never been in better shape. Every link remains completely free and no dirt or grit sticks to it at all any more.
Plus by using the paint brush very little oil is needed to cover the whole chain which also only takes about 2 minutes max to do.
It was mainly your advice and help when I changed the set that I went to 80w90 gear oil. I wouldn't go back to the chain tech but Gnasher's post about a good expensive dry lube pricked my ears.
I don't like the fling down the side of the tyre.
-
I’ve heard chainsaw oil is used by some. Less fling.
Personally I’ve gone round the houses with most methods and am now back to the scottoiler. Gets a bit messy with temperature changes but relatively easily cleaned and keeps the chain in very good condition.
-
I’ve heard chainsaw oil is used by some. Less fling.
Personally I’ve gone round the houses with most methods and am now back to the scottoiler. Gets a bit messy with temperature changes but relatively easily cleaned and keeps the chain in very good condition.
I did do some research on chainsaw oil, but was swayed away from it because it is meant to be quite thick and sticky, which means it would attract and hold on to road dirt and debris again.
-
Since changing my C&S last year I have adopted the oil route (gear oil ) at the minute I and doing it every 300 miles as per DID recommendations. But even though I don't swamp it and I wipe it after and gear oil is thicker it still flings off and some ends up on the side of the tyre. After the first 50 or so miles its ok but still annoying.
I used to use putolone chain tech - see pictures, but even that still flung off.
([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20030.0;attach=31014;image[/url])([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20030.0;attach=31022;image[/url])
([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20030.0;attach=31026;image[/url])
([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20030.0;attach=31020;image[/url])
Your over lubing it try to reduce it.
I wouldn't recommend any spray on lub, for the reasons given as such personally I don't use and haven't used spray on chain lub for over 20yrs.
These dry lubs I mentioned are from what some owners have told me about and looking at their bike chains. They're Teflon not silicon as I said earlier having now spoken to the chap. Now it's very possible they're over egging what they're telling me i.e. how often they use it, how much they use and/or how often the clean the bike.
This is the stuff he uses and others have followed, now we're talking but 4 bikes here, but all the chains are in good condition and the bikes are clean just keep in mind what I said above. DuPont Teflon Chain-Saver Dry, Self-Cleaning Chain Lube I've no idea where you get it, he got it form another chap who we can't no longer get hold of, but he did say it was expensive and they all bought a dozen cans each, so it suggest to me from the US.
I'll state it again I'm not recommending you use this, or any spray on lub, good old (strained) used engine oil in a SO is the way to go, or just brush on gear oil. It's way cheaper and better.
-
Will just stick to gear oil I think
Hope we have not :hijack the thread too much.
-
Thanks everyone.
Thread kinda drifted sideways but lots of good info on chain lubrication.
Since my rear sprocket is in really good nick I have only bought front one and the chain. Will see how it sits and decide later.
I got pretty good at taking things apart over last couple months so no problem to take the wheel off if need be.
Since I use i for commuting and ride in all weathers I was thinking about getting Scottoiler, but I've spent too much money on it lately, maybe after next payday.
-
Totally agree with Gnasher "Chains with correctly fitted/adjusted SO will not need adjusting in 1000's of miles. " First thing I fit to a bike!
-
Admittedly all my mileage is pleasure riding, but never had a problem using Wurth High Performance dry lube. The original chain got changed at a few hundred short of 24k miles, changed more as a precaution than necessity, as a couple of jaunts were on the cards. If I'm on a trip I'll take it with me giving the chain a quick squirt at the end of the day back at the campsite, or if out for the day, before the bike's pushed back into the garage.
Thank goodness for the centrestand, as usually on my own.
-
Admittedly all my mileage is pleasure riding, but never had a problem using Wurth High Performance dry lube. The original chain got changed at a few hundred short of 24k miles, changed more as a precaution than necessity, as a couple of jaunts were on the cards. If I'm on a trip I'll take it with me giving the chain a quick squirt at the end of the day back at the campsite, or if out for the day, before the bike's pushed back into the garage.
Thank goodness for the centrestand, as usually on my own.
I used Wurth lube for decades, i tried others but found them nowhere near as good.
But after cleaning the chain and trying out firstly engine oil, then buying a litre of 80w90 Gear Oil i would not go back to using spray lube again.
You can physically see and feel that all the links are free moving like they are when the chain is straight out of a brand new box.
Another thing that took me a bit of getting used to is the chain has a different tune to it, it's so free moving that it makes a different noise compared to being gunked up with lube. Plus as i said before NOTHING sticks to it, so it looks much cleaner as well, and i don't need to clean it any more, i just add more oil with the brush, then wipe of the excess.
You can't miss any single link either when using the paint brush like i do, and no doubt with the Scott Oiler too. Over time there would always be that one link that would start going stiff simply because the lube never quite got in there as much as it should have, probably with a combination of salted wet roads not helping during winter as well.
If it's not for you then no harm done, but i would certainly recommend that you at least try it for a month or two as a comparison.
-
If you really want to solve the problem and get well over 200k plus from your chain, when properly fitted and cared for, fit one of these: -
https://advrider.com/f/threads/fully-enclosed-motorcycle-chain-drive.1241227/ (https://advrider.com/f/threads/fully-enclosed-motorcycle-chain-drive.1241227/) I've fitted a couple over the years, not this version but similar.
They're not new, fitted to many bikes from almost the start until the late 90's in the latter years these were on smaller commuter type bikes.
One one the best was fitted to the MZ 2 strokes
https://www.mzridersclub.com/marque-history/a-potted-2t-history/mz_etz250/ (https://www.mzridersclub.com/marque-history/a-potted-2t-history/mz_etz250/) Not exactly great looking but they run and run and run.
-
If you really want to solve the problem and get well over 200k plus from your chain, when properly fitted and cared for, fit one of these: -
https://advrider.com/f/threads/fully-enclosed-motorcycle-chain-drive.1241227/ (https://advrider.com/f/threads/fully-enclosed-motorcycle-chain-drive.1241227/) I've fitted a couple over the years, not this version but similar.
They're not new, fitted to many bikes from almost the start until the late 90's in the latter years these were on smaller commuter type bikes.
Good for keeping your skirt out of the chain :lol
-
As you know my riding is dry only and I used the white spray sticky lube and the chain gained tight spots. Perhaps that's my problem - all dry / dusty riding sticking to the chain.Actually why do we even need to lube, they are sealed via x or o rings.
-
Actually why do we even need to lube, they are sealed via x or o rings.
You only need to lub the rollers and the sticky shite turns into grinding paste, which not only buggers the rollers it slowly destroys the X/O rings and the grease escapes and you get tight spots and a buggered chain. It doesn't take long even in the dry somewhere between 4 - 12k, I've replaced chains with around 2k on them, I kid you not. He'd being using cheap spray can lub, I think the propellant destroyed the O rings.
Oil just lubs the rollers, washes the grit off and protects the X/O rings. Obviously you've got to do it properly and often enough, which could be every ride in some conditions, that's where Scottoilers excel, the chain is oiled all the time, you do need two settings dry/wet. The latter isn't the odd shower it's prolonged rain over more than a day.
-
That doesn't look bad at all in black, and is probably the best part about that MZ :lol
-
and is probably the best part about that MZ :lol
Although they don't look very sexy, they're, cheap to run, reliable, simple and build for a purpose which they do/did extremely well. They even race them and they're quick, not far behind the 250/350LC in the right hands, I kid you not. ;)
-
As you know my riding is dry only and I used the white spray sticky lube and the chain gained tight spots. Perhaps that's my problem - all dry / dusty riding sticking to the chain.Actually why do we even need to lube, they are sealed via x or o rings.
Funny you should say that as I was watching a video from MCN the other day where Neevsey was talking about motorbike upgrades and what you realistically need to bother with etc
He said he doesn't lube his chains at all, just cleans them with WD40 after each ride to get the crap off and that's that. He reckons your chain will last much longer and stretch less with that basic maintenance? And the guy does know he stuff 🤔
https://youtu.be/eDCtJUB6gfI
Good video all round but skip to the 16 minute mark onward for the talk about chains
-
He said he doesn't lube his chains at all, just cleans them with WD40 after each ride to get the crap off and that's that. He reckons your chain will last much longer and stretch less with that basic maintenance? And the guy does know he stuff
https://youtu.be/eDCtJUB6gfI (https://youtu.be/eDCtJUB6gfI)
Good video all round but skip to the 16 minute mark onward for the talk about chains
It's just doing what oil does only it costs, 600ml around £5, 5Lt around £30, used engine oil cost nothing, WD40 also contains a propellant which evaporates, which isn't so cleaver in the rain.
If you don't like the idea of using used oil, you can get 5lt of Tripple X semi 5w 30 for just over £16 that's approx £1.90 ish for 600ml and that's half the price of 5Lts WD. I also found this stuff Mannol Defender Semi 10W 40 £5.99 for 5Lt :eek Don't think I'd be putting in my car but if it's made to the spec it say's it will be fine, it will probably not have all the nice additives but for chain lub which is waste oil, I'm going to give it a go.
-
WD40 is no doubt ok for a Sunday morning breakfast whizz, but even he said he'd use chain lube on a proper trip, where a daily routine of a squirt of lube at the end of a knackering day is the way to go. Centre stands really come into their own then :lol .
-
So wd40 sounds like what I need. I only do max 100 miles in a blat out and all dry dusty, so a quick spray with wd40 will wash off grit then most will evaporate leaving a clean washed/ slightly lubed chain with nothing to fling. At the minute after applying gear oil the first 70 miles i am almost reluctant to lean over too much :eek
-
At the minute after applying gear oil the first 70 miles i am almost reluctant to lean over too much :eek
If you apply too much even of WD you will get the same result. That said the thing to bear in mind with WD if you're not the most accurate and you over do it the mist gets on to the tyre. This acts a bit like silicon but not as bad, if you've ever used silicon water repellent or bike sprays and got it on a disc or tyre you'll know all about it very quickly, you've got to be careful with any spray, especially light oils/silicon.
Oiling using a brush or oil can directly onto the chain, should be directly followed by you wiping/running the chain through a cloth BE CAREFUL when you do this so as not to feed your fingers into the sprocket :eek Wipe at the bottom hand rotating the wheel towards the front of the bike slowly NEVER have the engine running and the bike in gear. Also as this is done after each ride any surplus not caught by the wiping, will just drip off and/or drop to the lowest point, it will not drift onto discs or tyre edges. As oil flings off it also tends to fly off into the chain guard, sprocket cover etc, yes you will get some very small traces on the tyre wall. Only if the oil is still being added to or it's just been done, will there be a risk of the oil reaching the tread.
-
Oiling using a brush or oil can directly onto the chain, should be directly followed by you wiping/running the chain through a cloth BE CAREFUL when you do this so as not to feed your fingers into the sprocket :eek Wipe at the bottom hand rotating the wheel towards the front of the bike slowly NEVER have the engine running and the bike in gear.
Yep I do this
-
Here you go, after the first 10 miles. It was oiled wiped and left for a week then wiped again before riding. But after I cleaned off what you can see there was no more.
-
You're over oiling.
Also you've got to thoroughly and I mean thoroughly de-grease the chain and inside the sprocket cover of all your old spray on lub as adding oil softens all the hardened deposits.
-
You're over oiling.
Also you've got to thoroughly and I mean thoroughly de-grease the chain and inside the sprocket cover of all your old spray on lub as adding oil softens all the hardened deposits.
its a brand new chain and sprocket and the inside of the cover area was spotless. My regime was the white spray lube like my first pictures but since my new chain I have been oiling and this is only my 3rd oil which I am doing every 300 miles.
When oiling the chain i have been using a small bottle with a pointy nosel, hold it in position on one side and spin the wheel then do the other side of the links. Next time I will use a brush to put less on but spread it around.
Oil bottle
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=25205.0;attach=35162;image (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=25205.0;attach=35162;image)
-
Funny that I had about the same amount of fling when i used spray wax. Wonder if itts the person putting it on or something to do with the hugger.
-
This time of year and in the dry every 500 should do it. Once the oils penetrated to the roller pins it will stay there for a good while, don't add anymore until the fling stops. Then just a wipe with a unloaded brush on the rollers, not the side plates, the plates you can use a moisten sponge or thick rag. You really don't need much at all, just a film on the rollers and on the roller pins ;)
-
It's clear I am putting too much on. But it only flings for 10 miles then nothing after. I will use your method next time. I understand the side plates are rust protected and shouldn't really need any more than a film.