Turns over but wont fire up fzs 600 (98)

[fazersharp]

Was a member of the old forum now this. To save any questions --History first Had the bike 11 years - never seen rain or wet with me, damp cloth at worse. I replaced with braided hoses and done the light mod about 5 years ago. Don't ride much, bought with 5k on the clock and now still only on 15k. Always ridden in the winter so long as dry.(rather do this that just stand and warm it up.) I keep it in a anal clean condition in a garage Never had a starting problem -in fact almost starts as my thumb just gets near the button, as if to say "come on come on ---lets go" Never replaced the battery or spark plugs or air filter as aint broke -didn't fixit. PROBLEM Last time I went out it was a little stubborn to start- I thought it may be because it had been a little longer this time since last started. Anyway started and off I went - stopped once or twice with no problems restarting. Today would not start, ignition all as normal, lights ect with the pump clicking away as normal turns over as normal but would not fire up, took out spark plugs and saw no obvious problems cleaned them a bit and put back and tried some more, now battery almost flat.           1st thing I am going to do is get a battery charger I will post another thread for help on that one. Then a set of spark plugs Any other ideas

[richfzs]

11 years, no battery in that time, and not been on a charger?

Buy a new battery, you've done well to get it this far!

[Bracechenko]

11 years, no battery in that time, and not been on a charger?

Buy a new battery, you've done well to get it this far!

Hmmm....not so fast. Buying a charger is a good idea anyway particularly considering lack of use but my battery is 12 years old and still original and no probs reported.

It could be a fuel issue, perhaps carbs have dried up? When did you start it last?

(By the way, the optimate has a conditioning program that is designed to plug onto the battery when it's being stored for any period of time. It keeps the battery in tip top condition ready for whenever you need it next. There's a lead supplied so you don't even have to remove battery or seat)

[richfzs]

absolutely, buy a charger (optimate!)

But I still reckon your problem is the battery - Brace, you use yours daily (or at least 5 times a week) I think? So yours is getting a decent charge on your "longish" commute? Friend Fazersharp doesn't have that benefit - and the symptoms / timescales he describes are mighty similar to when my batteries have died.

I'd do that before looking for more complex issues.

[fazersharp]

Can go 3-4 weeks between rides but if that is the case I am always mindful and try and make sure that I have a good blast.
Why would a week battery that turns over the bike as normal (at 1st anyway ) not then fire it up.
If it is say a blocked filter - tank or inline then the pump would not do its clicky thing would it, that all sounded normal --fast clicks slowing fast then no more each time I turned on the ignition in between start trys 

Ignor these photos as I am just dropping them here to use later, because when I add as an attachment I am limited to the amount of phots and I can not add any text inbetween when I add via attachments so by placing them here first I can cut and past to the post I need them
   

[Bracechenko]

Yep fair point Rich but it was the fact that the bike turned over 1st as normal and still didn't fire that suggested another dodgy issue

Fazersharp - Standard tests...check spark first, fuel second and then check for blocked air filter. See how you go

[richfzs]

Don't suppose you have a multimeter do you?

A battery takes a massive hamering to start the bike - while it may be retaining enough juice from the last time you ran it to get it to start once (or twice in your case), but it knackers a cell, and then you don't start again...

Brace - that'll teach me to read more carefully, hadn't seen the bit about turning over 

[Bracechenko]

Brace - that'll teach me to read more carefully, hadn't seen the bit about turning over 

That's alright, think this is the first time in the last 5 years that i've possibly come close to being a little helpful and I still think that's a fluke! 

I'm logging off before I feck it all up.....goodnight! 

[fazersharp]

Don't suppose you have a multimeter do you?

A battery takes a massive hamering to start the bike - while it may be retaining enough juice from the last time you ran it to get it to start once (or twice in your case), but it knackers a cell, and then you don't start again...

Brace - that'll teach me to read more carefully, hadn't seen the bit about turning over 

Shopping list
Battery charger - am thinking about the hein gerick one
4 ngk CR8E spark plugs
Multi meter -but what tests to do and what reading should I see

[richfzs]

voltage across the battery, with engine off. You should see around 12.5 - 13 volts.

But, as above, it sound as though there's another issue if its turning over fast.

[solorider]

Don't suppose you have a multimeter do you?

A battery takes a massive hamering to start the bike - while it may be retaining enough juice from the last time you ran it to get it to start once (or twice in your case), but it knackers a cell, and then you don't start again...

Brace - that'll teach me to read more carefully, hadn't seen the bit about turning over 

Shopping list
Battery charger - am thinking about the hein gerick one
4 ngk CR8E spark plugs
Multi meter -but what tests to do and what reading should I see

A fully charged battery should show 12.8 volts,any less and it means either a knackered battery or not fully charged,if the battery is tired the starter may take all the juice leaving nothing spare for the ignition system

[fazersharp]

Don't suppose you have a multimeter do you?

A battery takes a massive hamering to start the bike - while it may be retaining enough juice from the last time you ran it to get it to start once (or twice in your case), but it knackers a cell, and then you don't start again...

Brace - that'll teach me to read more carefully, hadn't seen the bit about turning over 

Shopping list
Battery charger - am thinking about the hein gerick one
4 ngk CR8E spark plugs
Multi meter -but what tests to do and what reading should I see

A fully charged battery should show 12.8 volts,any less and it means either a knackered battery or not fully charged,if the battery is tired the starter may take all the juice leaving nothing spare for the ignition system

It turned over good to start off but on reflection did drop off I suppose quite quickly after a few attemps - it still turns over but quite slow now
Going to get a charger and whilst that is doing its job will be fitting new sparkplugs
Any reason not to get the hein gerick one as for me in leicester I can get hold of that tomorrow - so long as they are in stock, not sure where to get the optimate 4 one that quick

[Gnasher]

Just charge it and try it first dont bother with the plugs unless it dont start.   

[fazersharp]

Thank you all so far for your help
Got myself a multimeter today and took out the batteryand the meter said it was 11.8v
Got a charger (see my other thread )
Battery now on charge Since 2.pm going by the leds on the charger the desulphation stage was skiped and it went straight to a soft start (slower rate i think) for one hour and now in main charge mode
Question why was 11.8v not enough to fire up the engine.It turned it over ok
I have also got new spark plugs and checked the gap. Wow that is small I think my old ones when I had a quick look (sill in the bikefor the now) were well worn.
I also have a new air filter but will first try with the new sparks and full battery as if that is no good then I shall next be looking at the in line filter and when under there will change the air filter too.
Question Why would a blocked air filter stop it from starting when that is exactly what you are doing with the choke
 

[Gnasher]

Question why 11.8v is was enough to fire up the engine.

You need a minimum of just over 12v .2 doesn't look like a lot but it is.
 
Question Why would a blocked air filter stop it from starting when that is exactly what you are doing with the choke.
 
  It wouldn't the battery is the problem a blocked air filter will give you running problems by having the effect of the bike being on choke or over rich, it would keep cutting out when the throttle was opened and would idle erratically if at all once warmed up.

[Fazerider]

11.8v from a battery after it has delivered a lot of power attempting to start a bike isn't bad... certainly worth sticking on the charger of course, but it doesn't sound like you've a dead cell in there. Sparks or fuel must be more likely as the cause of the problem.


"Why would a blocked air filter stop it from starting when that is exactly what you are doing with the choke."
Gnasher is right, it wouldn't, but it's not quite the same thing anyway... the choke does restrict the flow of air, but also forces it down over the slow jets which is actually what makes the mixture richer. So a blocked air filter isn't a good substitute for the choke, that tends to make the mixture richer when the throttle is opened wider.

[fazersharp]

Thanks for your input
I have had the battery on charge since 2pm -7 hours now
Its a CTEK MXS 5.0 -rebadged as a Yamaha YEC-40 all was going ok but it gets to its part 5 stage which is an analyse section after charge to check if voltage drops to 12v.
Then instead of going on the the next stage (float) it reverts back to stage 4 which is a declining current after the main charge. From this info the instructions say that it canot hold its charge
Here is the instructions http://www.theultimatefinish.co.uk/Documents/CTEK_MXS5_User_Manual.pdf

[Ton13]

hey, i had a similar problem a while back, with a lot of sarcastic answers of yyou have to turn the key till the pretty little lights come on 
 
Anywho, i found that when i eventually did get it going i took it for a blast and put fresh petrol into it, it had oil change filters and spark plugs done in october last year so i know its not them....
had to put it on charge using that CTEK charger just to stop the battery from dying, unfortunately i got mine from the NEC bike show so paid £25 with extras so not sure how much they are but worth it..... just try the petrol first....
 
Plus its been fluctuating in temp recently and i know my Bike hates it.... He likes the Warm and is a foccer in the cold!
Anywho, hope you can get it sorted!

[fazersharp]

ITS GOING - ITS Going !
Battery has been on charge /clean and refited
New spark plugs-
clean ht leads and caps with contact cleaner.
Started in a split second like it always has.
So its looking more and more like it was spark plugs for me, strange how they "fell off the cliff" with hardly any/much  warning.
Petrol warning light was also on so I put 2 ltrs fresh in
Only 2 ltr as my next job is to replace the air filter and did not want too much slopping about
Heres my theory Im thinking that the battery is not in the best of health 14 years old 1000 miles per year 2,3,4+ weeks inbetween rides, never been on charger. But the bike has always started instantly - so never needed much juce from it to get going. Untill the spark plugs had had it that is.
Not sure about the battery tho
Was on charge for 24 hours and read
12.61v right after unpluging
12.46v 10 mins later
12.39v 1/2 hour later
Then put on bike - 12 mile blast
read 12.57V
12.37v - after 20 mins parked
Not sure what all this means as to its health but the charger after 24 hours did not kick in to Float mode (Green led) which acording to the instructions says not able to hold its charge
 

[Fazerider]

It tells you the bike's charging system is working fine... and that the battery isn't as fresh as it was when new, but while it still works you might as well keep using it. And now it should survive the intervals between rides better.