Author Topic: Am I being paranoid? (Read 6287 times)

alexanderfitu · « **Reply #25 on:** 29 January 2013, 09:30:06 pm »

The service manual says to check it with 2 wheels on the ground, ie on the side stand, I would go by that.

unfazed · « **Reply #26 on:** 29 January 2013, 11:08:38 pm »

Did you check the wheel bearings when you had the wheel off?

ade the blade · « **Reply #27 on:** 29 January 2013, 11:15:07 pm »

Quote from: alexanderfitu on 29 January 2013, 09:30:06 pm

The service manual says to check it with 2 wheels on the ground, ie on the side stand, I would go by that.

+1......think about it, for example. you adjust chain on centre stand to say,40mm. then you flop bike down off stand and the weight of the bike settling onto the suspension knocks that down to 30mm play. then you ( and possibly a pillion ) jump on, knocking that down to 20mm or even less. now imagine you adjust it on centre stand to spec, but manual says this must be done on side stand...........instant guitar string!! everything stressed to the max...bearings, output shafts etc, and that nice shiny chain just waiting to take your calf (or worse ) off. food for thought i think. ride safe

Skippernick · « **Reply #28 on:** 30 January 2013, 07:38:14 am »

In my defence your honour i only followed the manual.

ade the blade · « **Reply #29 on:** 30 January 2013, 08:53:21 am »

Quote from: Skippernick on 30 January 2013, 07:38:14 am

In my defence your honour i only followed the manual.

hey matey, don`t think for one minute i was aving a go at ya........far from it. I was just putting a comment in general out there for all peeps to consider, not aimed at you in particular. If it came across like that, then i really do apologise......no harm intended

just trying to safeguard others from bad mistakes i have seen people do over the years, thats all

ride safe ! Ade xxx just for you

red98 · « **Reply #30 on:** 30 January 2013, 09:42:43 am »

you upsetting foccers ade

.......cant get a reply from CRH but when i do he will sort you out

packie · « **Reply #31 on:** 30 January 2013, 10:08:40 am »

Quote from: ade the blade on 29 January 2013, 11:15:07 pm

Quote from: alexanderfitu on 29 January 2013, 09:30:06 pm
The service manual says to check it with 2 wheels on the ground, ie on the side stand, I would go by that.
+1......think about it, for example. you adjust chain on centre stand to say,40mm. then you flop bike down off stand and the weight of the bike settling onto the suspension knocks that down to 30mm play. then you ( and possibly a pillion ) jump on, knocking that down to 20mm or even less. now imagine you adjust it on centre stand to spec, but manual says this must be done on side stand...........instant guitar string!! everything stressed to the max...bearings, output shafts etc, and that nice shiny chain just waiting to take your calf (or worse ) off. food for thought i think. ride safe

Obviously you have made up those figures and are wild guessing??. I doubt if you went away and checked one or two people up on a bike and measured the chain slack after a centre stand adjustment.

Now what about the other side to the story?......

So, Haynes recommend that you adjust the chain on the sidestand with the same specs. What if they are wrong? Why do you assume that Yamaha got it wrong? I mean, they made the bike so I think that they would know what spec is best and the way to perform that function....no?

If there was a danger of chains snapping or if chains have snapped in the past because of this inaccurate information that Yamaha supplied, they I think they would have been sued to hell and all those Service Manuals would be forced to be withdrawn. I have no heard of any such thing lawsuits or withdrawal of their manuals.

One thing that I didn't see on this thread that the OP might check, which is the actual chain condition itself? Did he measure it in various spots and measure a section of the links like even the Haynes Manual suggests? Maybe he did and I missed it on the thread somewhere. But I know that my chain is being replaced as we speak as it has tight spots in certain parts of the chain and the slack would be 40mm in some areas and 30mm in other areas. Now if I had adjusted my chain to the minimum setting of 30mm on a slack spot, wouldn't the the tight spot of the chain be a way too tight and make plenty of noise around the front sprocket?

alexanderfitu · « **Reply #32 on:** 30 January 2013, 10:14:52 am »

So haynes matches up with the yam service manual, however if the slack was adjusted on the center stand, then the slack would go down, when one person sits on it normally, and then go down again with 2 people on it.

That is Ade's point, that the tension would be too high with 2 people on it for example, possibley runing the output bearing, possibly heating the chain up to cause failure etc. Its not the numbers that are being argued.

Oddly, the service manual says to check on the sidestand, the owners manual says to check on the center stand, and haynes says to check on the side stand. You can only assume that the sidestand and center stand measurements dont make that much difference (seing as the weight is still on the back wheel when on the center stand), maybe 5mm out if that?

richfzs · « **Reply #33 on:** 30 January 2013, 10:57:35 am »

The weight isn't on the back wheel, when on the centre stand. Not on mine anyway, and it's been that way from new. Nor on any other bike I've put on a centre stand.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

red98 · « **Reply #34 on:** 30 January 2013, 11:11:51 am »

interesting views here.....i find it easier to adjust chain with bike on centre stand at the tighest point in the chain if you have one,when finished adjusting take the bike off the centre stand and let bike settle and then give it another quick check.......each to their own of course......there must be a difference in slack between the two methods,parhaps 40mm suits both having 10mm tolerence to suit both methods

red98 · « **Reply #35 on:** 30 January 2013, 11:13:42 am »

will change again with pillion as atb has already mentioned......easy fix.....dont date fat birds

packie · « **Reply #36 on:** 30 January 2013, 11:34:10 am »

Quote from: alexanderfitu on 30 January 2013, 10:14:52 am

So haynes matches up with the yam service manual, however if the slack was adjusted on the center stand, then the slack would go down, when one person sits on it normally, and then go down again with 2 people on it.

That is Ade's point, that the tension would be too high with 2 people on it for example, possibley runing the output bearing, possibly heating the chain up to cause failure etc. Its not the numbers that are being argued.

I don't know if the tension would increase at all with pillions aboard as I never checked it and neither has Ade. That's why I shot down his figures and his assumptions until he comes up with hard facts.

Ade assumes that when a pillion sits on the bike that the slack will be "taken up" because it seems obvious to the mind....yes?

He also assumed that when you make an adjustment on the centrestand and then drop it on the sidestand that the slack would be taken up there also because that is obvious to the mind also and commonsense....yes?. But I know for fact that the latter one is FALSE from tried experience. There is no difference in adjusting from the centerstand and sidestand so the OP wasted his time!

Hard to believe isn't it? Do it yourself. Put a mark on a link on your chain. Take a measurement on the centrestand and then from the sidestand.....no difference!! The obvious and common sense is blown right out of the water. So adjusting on the centrestand is quite safe.

Also, until somebody takes a measurement with and without a pillion on board, I'll keep an open mind too on weather the slack is been taking up there too and by any significant difference. I like to deal in hard fact and not wild assumptions. Cheers.

packie · « **Reply #37 on:** 30 January 2013, 11:51:26 am »

Sorry about the last reply....the quote and response got jumbled up!!

Here's my response.............

Ade assumes that when a pillion sits on the bike that the slack will be "taken up" because it seems obvious to the mind....yes? But has anyone checked it out as to be actual fact and but how much slack is it taken up?

Ade also assumed that when you make an adjustment on the centrestand and then drop it on the sidestand that the slack would be taken up there also. This is obvious too and commonsense....yes?. Not so. There is no difference in adjusting from the centerstand and sidestand so the OP wasted his time!

Hard to believe isn't it? Do it yourself. Put a mark on a link on your chain. Take a measurement on the centrestand and then from the sidestand.....no difference or any difference of any significance that would impact your riding condition!! The obvious and common sense is blown right out of the water. So adjusting on the centrestand is quite safe.

So, until somebody takes a measurement with and without a pillion on board, I'll keep an open mind on that one too! I like to deal in hard fact and not wild assumptions.

alexanderfitu · « **Reply #38 on:** 30 January 2013, 12:44:25 pm »

No worries.

The only way the chain slack would be the same, regardless of swing arm position, would be if the pivot point was on top of the front sprocket. Which would be difficult!

As such, the chain slack will change with the swing arm position. See below image:

Not by much granted, and it only really affects bikes with bigger distances between swingarm pivot and the chain. not sure what the maths is for for fazer.

alexanderfitu · « **Reply #39 on:** 30 January 2013, 01:08:28 pm »

All this talk of chain tension made me go out and check mine. less than 20mm free play!

I hadnt checked it since I bought if from the dealer, all sorted now

Skippernick · « **Reply #40 on:** 30 January 2013, 01:16:09 pm »

Quote from: ade the blade on 30 January 2013, 08:53:21 am

Quote from: Skippernick on 30 January 2013, 07:38:14 am
In my defence your honour i only followed the manual.
hey matey, don`t think for one minute i was aving a go at ya........far from it. I was just putting a comment in general out there for all peeps to consider, not aimed at you in particular. If it came across like that, then i really do apologise......no harm intended just trying to safeguard others from bad mistakes i have seen people do over the years, thats all ride safe ! Ade xxx just for you

no offense taken, that was said with tongue firmly in cheek.

Skippernick · « **Reply #41 on:** 30 January 2013, 01:21:55 pm »

Blimey that set the cat amoungst the pigeons.

Just to clarify, i checked the slack in several places whilst on the centre stand. As far as i can tell the chain is in good condition. I am not even half way along the marks on the swing arm.

All i can say is that i checked the tension whilst on the centre stand and then this noise appeared, i will test ride on friday to see if it still there after checking the tension on the side stand.

alexanderfitu · « **Reply #42 on:** 30 January 2013, 01:24:10 pm »

No worries, Im in the same boat as you, did you end up moving the back wheel back when you adjusted the tension?

If so, it may be too tight, I have just loosend mine and will check it on a ride out later on. I will report back.

Boris · « **Reply #43 on:** 30 January 2013, 01:39:28 pm »

I generally find it best to have someone sit on the bike and adjust the chain accordingly. Saves the hassle of deciding which manual recommendation is the best. Plus if you have a tight spot on the chain it also gives you better idea of what you're up against.

Skippernick · « **Reply #44 on:** 01 February 2013, 07:50:46 pm »

Ok the results.
After a week of fettling and worrying, i went for a test ride this afternoon, and all sounds fine although i was still paranoid. And thought i could still hear it. And actually don't know if i was chain tension or wheel misalignment.
So went to my stealer to get them to check everything over and they gave it the a-ok. Possibly a tight chain coupled with the fact thats its original and got 18,000 miles on it. The mechanic also said chain tension should be checked on the centre stand. But i will double check when its on the side stand in future as well.
Other reason may have been on some yamaha's of this ilk they put a cush drive next to front sproket to reduce vibration, all it achieves is more noise apparently.
So there you go check, check and check again.

JZS 600 · « **Reply #45 on:** 01 February 2013, 08:04:57 pm »

As a rough guide, on the centre stand, if the chain can nearly hit the rubber guide on the bottom of the swinging arm, that's about right,,,

Yes, chain tension can be a bugger!

alexanderfitu · « **Reply #46 on:** 01 February 2013, 08:17:06 pm »

My odd noise had disappeared since I loosened up the chain tension.happy days

JZS 600 · « **Reply #47 on:** 01 February 2013, 08:24:49 pm »

Saves the gear box bearings too

Tourx4 · « **Reply #48 on:** 02 February 2013, 05:01:02 pm »

Double checked my lola and all is well, thank god!!!!