No body has mentioned that when the oil is warm it will have expanded and therefore higher in the window than when cold.Must admit I've never noticed the difference and anyway my light has never come on so I don't get concerned about it.I still change the oil at approx 4,000 miles and check the level now and again, but have never had to top it up between oil changes. Bike now done about 55k.Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%] [/size]
Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%] [/size]
The manual has to give a method that's accurate and covers all scenarios. They can't say check it from cold because a cold bike that was park two hours ago is going to show a different level to a cold bike that was parked a year ago even if they have the same amount of oil in them. The only way to cover all scenarios is to say start it up, turn it off, let it settle and then check it. They can't even give exact times to start it up because the bike could be parked in -10 weather or it could be in 40 degree weather so the viscosity of the oil would be totally different. Saying start it for two minutes and turn it off for a minute then check wouldn't work. The way they say to do it is the only way that covers all scenarios which is what the manual has to do.
Quote from: His Dudeness on 11 January 2019, 07:58:32 pmThe manual has to give a method that's accurate and covers all scenarios. They can't say check it from cold because a cold bike that was park two hours ago is going to show a different level to a cold bike that was parked a year ago even if they have the same amount of oil in them. The only way to cover all scenarios is to say start it up, turn it off, let it settle and then check it. They can't even give exact times to start it up because the bike could be parked in -10 weather or it could be in 40 degree weather so the viscosity of the oil would be totally different. Saying start it for two minutes and turn it off for a minute then check wouldn't work. The way they say to do it is the only way that covers all scenarios which is what the manual has to do.That (unfortunately) makes far too much sense. But I think may be the answer.How come there not so much angst among car owners.
Quote from: limax2 on 11 January 2019, 09:42:49 pmNo body has mentioned that when the oil is warm it will have expanded and therefore higher in the window than when cold.Must admit I've never noticed the difference and anyway my light has never come on so I don't get concerned about it.I still change the oil at approx 4,000 miles and check the level now and again, but have never had to top it up between oil changes. Bike now done about 55k.Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%] [/size]Expansion will be minimal. So ignore it.Oil will be up around the top of the engine when warm rather than all in the sump. This is why it is LOWER in the window when warm and why the manual says to check it when WARM
What about a dipstick?
Quote from: Dynspud on 11 January 2019, 06:47:49 pmWhat about a dipstick?Unrelated to the thread, but I owned a Citroen car several years ago that had a wire dipstick, but with a plastic tip on the end with the level lines on it.They were well known for the tip snapping off way down in the dipstick tube as it negotiated it's way around a bend in the tube.It was due to the constant heating/cooling weakening it. You had to buy a new dipstick, then as you inserted it the broken bit got pushed down into the sump. The oil strainer prevented it going anywhere or doing any harm. Daft though eh
Quote from: YamFazFan on 12 January 2019, 11:56:23 amQuote from: Dynspud on 11 January 2019, 06:47:49 pmWhat about a dipstick?Unrelated to the thread, but I owned a Citroen car several years ago that had a wire dipstick, but with a plastic tip on the end with the level lines on it.They were well known for the tip snapping off way down in the dipstick tube as it negotiated it's way around a bend in the tube.It was due to the constant heating/cooling weakening it. You had to buy a new dipstick, then as you inserted it the broken bit got pushed down into the sump. The oil strainer prevented it going anywhere or doing any harm. Daft though eh Yep - I had that car. And I would push dipstick down inch by inch and as I did I would let it rotate as it wanted to. I think the way down there was a contorted route that did not help the plastic bit on the end.
Quote from: fazersharp on 12 January 2019, 12:20:26 pmQuote from: YamFazFan on 12 January 2019, 11:56:23 amQuote from: Dynspud on 11 January 2019, 06:47:49 pmWhat about a dipstick?Unrelated to the thread, but I owned a Citroen car several years ago that had a wire dipstick, but with a plastic tip on the end with the level lines on it.They were well known for the tip snapping off way down in the dipstick tube as it negotiated it's way around a bend in the tube.It was due to the constant heating/cooling weakening it. You had to buy a new dipstick, then as you inserted it the broken bit got pushed down into the sump. The oil strainer prevented it going anywhere or doing any harm. Daft though eh Yep - I had that car. And I would push dipstick down inch by inch and as I did I would let it rotate as it wanted to. I think the way down there was a contorted route that did not help the plastic bit on the end. I bet you sold it to him?
Probably because cars rubbish and only good for carrying the shopping I think on some new cars you can't even check the oil level. The engine is sealed and you have to take it to a dealer to do an oil change....junk!
Quote from: BBROWN1664 on 11 January 2019, 10:04:32 pmQuote from: limax2 on 11 January 2019, 09:42:49 pmNo body has mentioned that when the oil is warm it will have expanded and therefore higher in the window than when cold.Must admit I've never noticed the difference and anyway my light has never come on so I don't get concerned about it.I still change the oil at approx 4,000 miles and check the level now and again, but have never had to top it up between oil changes. Bike now done about 55k.Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%] [/size]Expansion will be minimal. So ignore it.Oil will be up around the top of the engine when warm rather than all in the sump. This is why it is LOWER in the window when warm and why the manual says to check it when WARMThe reason to wait a few minutes after warming up is so that most of that oil drains back into the sump.Just for interest the increase in volume is :-Volumetric expansion coefficient of engine oil is 0.00070 per deg COil capacity say 2.7ltrs = 2,700c.c.Lets say temperature difference from cold to warm is 40 deg CChange in oil volume = 0.00070 x 2700 x 40 = 75.6c.c.To use a previous measuring scale that’s about three normal egg cups worth.I’ve no idea what that difference in volume represents in terms of height in the site glass and never bothered about it. Maybe I’ll have to check the oil level when cold and then again when warm after standing a few minutes and see if my calculation theory is total garbidge.
Quote from: limax2 on 12 January 2019, 08:35:16 pmQuote from: BBROWN1664 on 11 January 2019, 10:04:32 pmQuote from: limax2 on 11 January 2019, 09:42:49 pmNo body has mentioned that when the oil is warm it will have expanded and therefore higher in the window than when cold.Must admit I've never noticed the difference and anyway my light has never come on so I don't get concerned about it.I still change the oil at approx 4,000 miles and check the level now and again, but have never had to top it up between oil changes. Bike now done about 55k.Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%] [/size]Expansion will be minimal. So ignore it.Oil will be up around the top of the engine when warm rather than all in the sump. This is why it is LOWER in the window when warm and why the manual says to check it when WARMThe reason to wait a few minutes after warming up is so that most of that oil drains back into the sump.Just for interest the increase in volume is :-Volumetric expansion coefficient of engine oil is 0.00070 per deg COil capacity say 2.7ltrs = 2,700c.c.Lets say temperature difference from cold to warm is 40 deg CChange in oil volume = 0.00070 x 2700 x 40 = 75.6c.c.To use a previous measuring scale that’s about three normal egg cups worth.I’ve no idea what that difference in volume represents in terms of height in the site glass and never bothered about it. Maybe I’ll have to check the oil level when cold and then again when warm after standing a few minutes and see if my calculation theory is total garbidge. Been a while for my bike now but from memory when my bike was cold the oil was above the window.
The reason to wait a few minutes after warming up is so that most of that oil drains back into the sump.Just for interest the increase in volume is :-Volumetric expansion coefficient of engine oil is 0.00070 per deg COil capacity say 2.7ltrs = 2,700c.c.Lets say temperature difference from cold to warm is 40 deg CChange in oil volume = 0.00070 x 2700 x 40 = 75.6c.c.To use a previous measuring scale that’s about three normal egg cups worth.I’ve no idea what that difference in volume represents in terms of height in the site glass and never bothered about it. Maybe I’ll have to check the oil level when cold and then again when warm after standing a few minutes and see if my calculation theory is total garbidge.
So from what others are saying, the egg cup left in the galleries after several minutes after running the bike up to temp, is offset by the egg cup of expansion of the oil. When cold the egg cup that was in the galleries is now in the sump, and the egg cup due to heat expansion is no longer relevant. ergo, the level will be the same in both hot and cold scenarios.With regards to my own personal experience, the light has come on, on only one of the ten journeys I have made since my original post, if the oil level was dangerously low as has been suggested, it was low for all ten journeys, but only lit the lamp once. In the interest of covering all the bases, I checked the oil as per the manual, and marked a line after seven minutes, and then checked it again after two hours, and there was no difference whatsoever in the level. I then warmed the bike up and topped up to the top line. On four journeys since, the light has come on twice.Back to my original question, before I was accused of being an idiot, has anybody else had trouble with their oil light?A new switch is £86, so I'll look for a S/H one, unless I can fix the old one.
Yes I too have had the same issue with a flick on of the light after accelerating (with fun) from exiting roundabout. I looked at the level and it looked all ok so I put in about an egg cup full more oil and since then have not seen the light switch on.
Quote from: fazersharp on 16 January 2019, 01:44:56 pmYes I too have had the same issue with a flick on of the light after accelerating (with fun) from exiting roundabout. I looked at the level and it looked all ok so I put in about an egg cup full more oil and since then have not seen the light switch on. As I said in my original post, this all happened at tickover at a junction. No 'spirted' riding, that came later. It was also more than a flick, it stayed on constantly for minutes until I stopped and turned everything off and back on.Didn't come on today, I think it was scared of the snow.