NEW BIKE?

[SEPTIKANGEL]

Test rode a Cross Tourer at the weekend.
Lovely bike, silly prices, got back on my Fazer 1000 and thought.....  how stupid would I be to part with my Fazer - luvvin' it!  (even after blowin' a fork seal too!)

[tomlinscote]

I always feel like that after trying other bikes, they are usually great, nice and showroom shiny and with modern parts FI ABS TC AWC and lots of other nice toys to go wrong then I ask myself can they offer all the things the Gen 1 can and so far the answer has been no. Sat on the crossthingythe other day and it seemed huge but I will try the new Triumph 1200 when it comes out just in case........
 
P

[pitternator]

interesting ...can you expand a little on the CT...its on my short list ( not a definite purchase, more a wish list ), along with the triumph explorer.I have ridden the VFR12 , liking it , but feeling its all too focused on big big speed, and feels a bit irrelevant at 60 to 100mph.
The fazer can do similar , but still feels " relevant" and comfortable at legal speeds or just above. IMO for touring and general road use....170 bhp is simply OTT.Useability , comfort and handling seem much more relevant.

[MEM62]

It's true, the Gen 1 Fazers are incredibly good road bikes and, even now, you have to go a long way to beat them. I used to change my bikes every few years but have had my '05 Fazer 1000 for six years now with no plans to change.  My machine has been Ivanised and if money ever starts burning a hole in my pocket I'll probably throw some at upgrading the suspension rather than replacing the bike.     

[AyJay]

Agree with everything said so far. As a road bike, it's without peer.


I'm halfway to buying a ZZR1400 at the moment (too much is never enough) but I can't help come back to the fact that the Fazer is the most practical bike for 95% of the riding I do. Which is why I've had the same bike for the last 8 years. Damnit, why didn't Yamaha just update the handling of the Gen 1 rather than botch the job with a titchy tank, rock hard seat and uninspiring engine. Roll on the Crossplane Fazer.


In the meantime, I rather suspect it's ZZR1400 and bar risers for me. And no, I'm not selling the Fazer, just in case.

[pitternator]

the only problem with the gen1 is its now an old design aestheitically, probably designed in 1998 for 2001 launch. Yes its classic design, so will always be appealling , but its not up to date.Even the FZ-1 styling  based on a 2004 R1 is 8 yrs old ! I do wonder if Yam will ever update the bike  ?...apart from the bodged together FZ-8 ( not even really a new design) is their only " new " roadbike for quite some time now..
Hence we all will look to other manufacturers for a new bike....Yam just dont have any !

[cable tie]

I went to the Honda open day on saturday on the triumph 12 explorer, i went to gate crash it on the triumph as i know the honda dealership owners very well so was taken with banter ie get that pish of sh1t out of our yard 
I did sit on the cross tourer and for the small leg fella's ie me and you jon its not good it felt taller than the 12 multistrada and higher than the trumpet 12 explorer, there no seat adjustment and no low seat, and its bloody expensive for the blinged version, screen looks too small to do anything and the fact you cannot adjust it without using a allen key cant see the point !
However i note from this weeks MCN there is a mugen spec'd version looks very nice but its not for the uk market   

 
The gen1 fazer is a hard to beat bike around Derbyshire there is a massive influx of em now our local sunday burger stop is now full of gen1 ive never seen as many, were before id not see another on the rd in the same day now its trying not to see him and there holding there value very well.
 
Dave 

[tomlinscote]

Cable, it would be good to know your opinion of the triumph 12 esp if you have tried the GS and can make a comparison, I ask mainly due to now getting sore neck and knees on the Gen 1 and find myself having to sit very upright and stretching legs a lot more than I ever used to.
 
Also on  a totally different note to AyJay I had the opportunity to take the new ZZR1400  out but didn't have the paper bit of my license handy    so would be interested to  ear your views on that too.
 
P

[cable tie]

Well this is my opinion on the  demo ride.
The demo was on the fully spec,d triumph 12 exp launch model cost £12k, it was last saturday bike was from Pidcocks and I was sold on the looks alone in phantom black but that's as far as it got, at 5'7" the reach to the bars seem to be more than the gs and after a while It gave me shoulder ache! I ride with the balls of my feet on the pegs and so my left heel hit the centre stand every time ! with the seat in the low position i could get my feet down so that was great the screen i tried at every angle I could not reduce the buffeting and it was very annoying, the front forks seem very soft load the front brake and it wanted to headbutt  me into the Tarmac, the rear brake was poor had no feeling, the span adjustment on the levers was not enough for my smallish hands but ok,  tyre pressure monitors did not work they had gone faulty already ! I found the throttle to be wooly most peeps had said it was crisp not on the bike I road it was 1/4  turn before it did anything,the cruise was good and did what it said however the set button was along reach with your thumb and so you had to be careful not to move the throttle, handling wise it did not feel as stable as my gs I found the bike wanted to run wide when I had it leant over but than again it's no sports bike, the engine was nice and had plenty of go upto 6k than seemed to flatten out it sounded lovely with the stock can as triples do.

When I took it back and said thank you but I won't be putting my order in I was told I was the 1st to dislike it ! and tbh i wanted to like it so My conclusion is that it's still work in progress and being a new model has flaws that I'm sure will be put right in time once peeps take ownership and give there feedback to triumph as per all new models i think the 1st year is the so called test year and than the 2nd year all the improvement will have been made.
 
Regarding the GS i prob should try not to compare it too my bike (as below) as its abit different !! but even stock form the gs is great as doing what it does and with great confidence

 

 

[tomlinscote]

Wow, lovely looking GS and I bet it sounds the dogs with those cans 
Cheers for the review too, plenty of points to consider methinks, inc note to self  - carry both parts of driving license with you!!

[pitternator]

dave
Its the problem at the moment m8...there actually are few really new roadbikes. All manufacturers are getting on the adventure bandwagon. If you dont like or suit adventure bikes, you are a bit stuck.I test rode a GS 12 way back in 05 so I know its old stuff but I just didnt suit it at all. Oddly I could get me feet down on the deck ! I also hated the screen which made my head buffet a lot. Interesting to see the explorer hit you similarly. I think the adventure bike posture is to blame. I like the look of adventure bikes, but still feel they somehow lack something ...which at 12k means I really aint sure its my cup of tea. TBH I am still veering more K1300S or vfr12 than the adventure versions.But its just such a big ask to put down maybe 8k on top of my fazer for a bike which tbh I aint sure is actually gonna do anymore for me than shiny bike syndrome !, and whose performance bias is the "wrong" side of 100mph , which IMO makes them a bit  pointless on UK roads. The speed triple by contrast has all the power and torque just in the right place for me, shame its not as much an allrounder as the fazer. I couldnt see me touring on one !
I reckon I would fit a new GS , but I do wonder if its capitulation to get one !  ...and will its value shrink with the watercooled model waiting in the wings ??
I am thinking to either respray my fazer , or maybe get another, find  a low miler as a keeper, give it  all the mods, and use my silver bike just for touring. Its got 36K on it plus a few blemishes, so its never going to be concours ...but still does everything I want ...apart maybe from a more characterful engine.
What might suit me is  a fazer chassis with a 1050 or 1200 triple engine with abs...

[cable tie]

Jon, I totally agree with you and as you say 8k and your fazer for a bike that will do exactly what the fazer can do is something to think about, obviously all bikes have +/- one thing that I like about adventure bikes is how well they ride with there wide bars and there very easy to adapt to, only downside is the cost not sure I'd want to off rd one as dropping it would be costly to me anyway as I could not live with even a scratch. Maybe a used fjr 1300 would be ideal replacement one day for you as there suppose to be a cracking bike !!

Regarding triumph and ongoing quality, will it be affected !! As it seems there building a factory in India ! They already have one in Thailand !

[pitternator]

The asian triumph factories are primarily there for that market. Triumph are bringing out a 250cc bike for the asian market.Hinckley will still build most of the  UK/premium models.
Its the depreciation which worries me. My 09 speed triple cost 7999 back then. A new one now is 8999. Thats  a grand up in 2.5 yrs. However , the second hand trade ins are more based on the 09 value! My bike has 12k on it , so aint gonna be top dollar, but I reckon I will be lucky to get 5k for it. So theres 4k down just to get a new speed triple...then as soon as I wheel the bike out of the showrrom, its lost 2k....two yrs time, maybe back down to 6k?...so thats 8k cost for 4 yrs riding. feck, thats frightening.But its a symptom of a low volume / high price market. just a few years back it cost 2 K every 2 yrs to trade a bike., so its doubled.Question is...do I want to play ?..feck, 8 k takes some time to save up these days .Alternatively I can get a full K tech suspension package for the s3 for £700, which will bring it pretty close to the new model for handling.TBH I probably fancy a sprint ( not the GT) to the explorer, the factory will still make me one, but it has no electronics or abs, and thats £8700...put a pipe on it , abs and its nearly 10k.Theres no bike seemeingly under 10k to get anything near equivalent to my fazer for ability. However ....they R new of course.I still rate the sprint as a road bike, and a jet black one does still look smart.But somehow it feels like going backwards??
I like yer idea of a used FJR...its certainly the touring version of the fazer. Must admit , if one did come along I could be tempted.New , they are about 14 K !!   
Its the first time in years I have the cash to buy almost anything out there now...but am so held back at the thought of what it will be losing in value  in a few years.Maybe the multistrada would be my bike...but I just aint tall enuff to enjoy it. And the potential loss on one of those is even more cash ! ...IIRC a PCP gives a residual of about 8K after 2 yrs...= 7K loss !

[SEPTIKANGEL]

Its the depreciation which worries me. ...then as soon as I wheel the bike out of the showrrom, its lost 2k....two yrs time, maybe back down to 6k?...so thats 8k cost for 4 yrs riding. feck, thats frightening.But its a symptom of a low volume / high price market. just a few years back it cost 2 K every 2 yrs to trade a bike., so its doubled.Question is...do I want to play ?.. Its the first time in years I have the cash to buy almost anything out there now...but am so held back at the thought of what it will be losing in value  in a few years.

Think you've hit the nail on the head with my thoughts too.  The CT is a fine bike, but current climate is making me more careful I suppose -  as needs be - or maybe I am turning into me Dad.  I'm fortunate enough to own 2 bikes which are holding their own reasonaby well value wise - and there's nothing wrong with either of 'em.  Stealers offer drivel on a part ex. while still wanting serious wonga for the new bike.  Well I think I've had enough - I can afford to buy, but have probably decided subconciously to stick two fingers up to the new bike trade - in fact I'm going to the Stafford Classic bike show next weekend - see you there!
ANYONE GOT A MINT FOXEYE EXUP 1000 FOR SALE? (1994-96)

[pitternator]

aye septik, it is exactly my point. Its wonderful to have a new bike, but its an experience which soon fades. I was quite happy to do it every 1 or 2 yrs when it cost so little, but when the cost is as much as buying say a great condition  second hand GSXR1000..I do need a lot of persuading !..plus the sobering thought is you will have to repeat it in 2 or 3 yrs time.I still think bike manufacturers are killing the market...there soon will be just a select few who are young enough and well off enuff to want to buynew bikes.I think we are witnessing  the demise of the performance bike market , its not going to come back.I dont think we will ever see R1s at less than 10k equivalent again.They almost are exotica prices now...The shift to adventure bikes reflects the shift in owners - more mature riders who dont want focused machinery...they have the cash, so the bikes reflect their tastes, hence the gadgets, features and ease of use...rather than performance as a must .As fuel costs soar , mpg will be the selling point ...the new  Honda 700 " jizz" as I call it ( half a whizz = a jizz !  ) surely is starting the ball rolling.?..and its priced the right side of 6k...
TBH at this point I would have thought the japs would have thought of developing more bikes in the fazer mould...cheaper than full on sports, more comfort , practicality etc...so its amazing Yam have not brought out the gen3....especially as the super tenere is so targetted at the elite rather than mass market.Honda has the CBF 1000, kwak the SX1000 ( plus the oddball versys 1000)...yam defo seem to be missing a trick, especially as the FZ-1 is so sportily focused, at odds really with market trends ?? Or will we all be shifting towards middleweight ( cheaper ) bikes ?..but to my mind after 12 yrs or so of riding 1000cc , grunty bikes its not a natural step for me...