28k Service

[JoeRock]

Right guys, as my bike has now come up to 28k, decided I'm going to give it a full service. Got a list together, but was wondering if there was anything else that would likely need checking that isn't in the Hayes manual, or that should probably be done anyway?

Right, here goes:
-Strip and clean calipers, check pads, replace brake fluid and brake hoses for braided. Check the brake system as a whole, and the operation of the - brake lights.

-Check and regrease swingarm, suspension, wheel and steering bearings

-Check and lubricate clutch/gearshift/brake lever/brake peadl/sidestand/centrestand pivots and throttle/choke/clutch cables

-Check all electrical connections and clean with contact spray

-As I've still got my strange low down running symtoms (cutting out on cylinders beneath 5k ish revs), going to take the carbs apart and clean them up

-Check the fuel system and hoses

-Drain, flush, and replace the coolant

-Clutch is making quite a noise at the moment, heard of grumbly clutches before but mine is properly rattly, so going to be checking that as well

-Engine oil and filter change

-Clean and reoil air filter

-Change spark plugs and compression test

-Check CCT

-Carb balance and idle speed check

-Once I've done all that lot, I'm hoping that whatever is causing my strange low down running will stop. That said, probably going to go ahead and check the valve clearances anyway, just in case my bike is the one Fazer 6 that does need doing!

So, what have I missed?!

·       

[darrsi]

Re-oil air filter at 28k ?


I'm a fan of leaving Radflush in the coolant system for a couple of days to give the bike a proper de-scale, although i wouldn't advise doing this if you're planning on a long run in this weather as it may get a bit warm, but it definitely gives it a better clean when the bike has warmed up and cooled down a few times. Then give it a good flush with a hose and refill as normal.


If you haven't already, get a K&N oil filter with the nut on the end for easy removal next time.


May as well change the fuel filter while your at it, they're only a few quid.

[Dead Eye]

To add context to the above message;

Standard Air Filter shouldn't be oiled - its paper and should just be replaced

K&N filters don't need to be re-oiled until 50k miles

[His Dudeness]

You could change the spark plugs and caps and trim the ht leads if you wanted. Cheap to do.  Check your front sprocket nut and your chain for stiff links. Maybe give it soak in kerosene and re oil it. Lube the clutch and throttle cables. You could change the fork oil. Maybe replace the fuel filter.  That's all I can think of that you haven't mentioned for now

[JoeRock]

To add context to the above message;

Standard Air Filter shouldn't be oiled - its paper and should just be replaced

K&N filters don't need to be re-oiled until 50k miles

Forgot to mention that I've got a K&N! Know it doesn't need it, or at least shouldn't, but as I don't know the history of the bike it could be a used one and in serious need of an oiling!

[Dead Eye]

That's fair enough then, thought this might be case after I wrote my reply

[simonm]

Please can you let me know if I can watch you do the service.  Or you can do it here, plenty of space.  I'd love to see one done.


Cheers
Simon

[darrsi]

Please can you let me know if I can watch you do the service.  Or you can do it here, plenty of space.  I'd love to see one done.


Cheers
Simon

That sounds like motorcycle dogging 

[His Dudeness]

Please can you let me know if I can watch you do the service.  Or you can do it here, plenty of space.  I'd love to see one done.


Cheers
Simon

That sounds like motorcycle dogging 

He likes to watch 

[simonm]

Pfooey.  Perves. 

[JoeRock]

Please can you let me know if I can watch you do the service.  Or you can do it here, plenty of space.  I'd love to see one done.


Cheers
Simon

Not a problem at all mate! I've ordered all the bits I need now so am waiting for them to arrive, as soon as they do we can sort out something! If you've got any bits that need doing might be worth doing them together so you can learn about doing some bits yourself?

[JoeRock]

Re-oil air filter at 28k ?


I'm a fan of leaving Radflush in the coolant system for a couple of days to give the bike a proper de-scale, although i wouldn't advise doing this if you're planning on a long run in this weather as it may get a bit warm, but it definitely gives it a better clean when the bike has warmed up and cooled down a few times. Then give it a good flush with a hose and refill as normal.


If you haven't already, get a K&N oil filter with the nut on the end for easy removal next time.


May as well change the fuel filter while your at it, they're only a few quid.

Would this be the kind of stuff you meant Darsi? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Holts-Radflush-2-Part-Lasts-For-Up-To-12-Months-Number-One-UK-Maintenance-System-/300925004667?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Car_Care_Cleaning&hash=item4610872b7b
I'm assuming it's a case of mix it into water, pop it in the rad and run it throguh a couple heat cycles? I can't leave it in there for a few days unfortunately as driving up to Liverpool soon, but I could certainly run a couple heat cycles through it on the drive or something - not like it's going to take long to get up to temperature! (have also PM'd you, just to make sure you see this )

[darrsi]

Re-oil air filter at 28k ?


I'm a fan of leaving Radflush in the coolant system for a couple of days to give the bike a proper de-scale, although i wouldn't advise doing this if you're planning on a long run in this weather as it may get a bit warm, but it definitely gives it a better clean when the bike has warmed up and cooled down a few times. Then give it a good flush with a hose and refill as normal.


If you haven't already, get a K&N oil filter with the nut on the end for easy removal next time.


May as well change the fuel filter while your at it, they're only a few quid.

Would this be the kind of stuff you meant Darsi? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Holts-Radflush-2-Part-Lasts-For-Up-To-12-Months-Number-One-UK-Maintenance-System-/300925004667?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Car_Care_Cleaning&hash=item4610872b7b
I'm assuming it's a case of mix it into water, pop it in the rad and run it throguh a couple heat cycles? I can't leave it in there for a few days unfortunately as driving up to Liverpool soon, but I could certainly run a couple heat cycles through it on the drive or something - not like it's going to take long to get up to temperature! (have also PM'd you, just to make sure you see this )

Yep, that's the stuff.
Unbelievably it's cheaper in Halfords though!!!   

[JoeRock]

Well started a couple of the jobs, air filters been out, cleaned and oiled back up, and the HT leads have had a wee trim, so they're all good. About as much as I can do now, just waiting for a couple huge boxes of stuff to turn up so I can crack on with the rest! Did end up needing new front brake pads, was very close to the wear line so decided rather than have to fanny around in a few weeks when I hit it, I'll just buy the pads now and get it all over and done with. Also bought a new fuel filter too.
Swear by the time I've done this lot, I'll basically have a brand new bike! 

[JoeRock]

rather conveniently had an unexpected day off work today, was just going back to bed after the phone call when the doorbell rang, so I opened the door to a load of parcels! Thought seeing as the sun was out I should probably crack on, so I've just spent pretty much the entire day doing a load of bits on the bike.

Got the calipers stripped down, the pistons were in much, much better nick than I was expecting and there was very little dirt, so I pumped them out, cleaned them up, lubed them up with red rubber grease and fitted my new Carbone Lorraine pads, before starting the fitting process of the new HEL lines. I've bled some bloody difficult brakes before (6 pot Tokicos anyone?!), but these weren't exactly either, kept getting air through for about a liter of fluid before it finally started firming up, so i've left the brake cable tied in and will give a quick last blast tomorrow. Rear was a peace of piss though which was a nice surprise, but I didn't bother changing the pads in the end as there's tonnes of meat on them still - should probably use that a bit more!
Got most of the electrical connections cleaned up and sprayed so they should be pretty much done with now for the rest of the time I own the bike.

Engine oil and filter change, and then coolant drain, flush, and refill. I have no idea what genius decided to put the drain plugs on the side of the bike as they've always been on the bottom, the engine oil came out a little further than expected (about a foot), but caught most of it in the tray, then did the same thing for the coolant and there must've been a good 4 foot of high powered hot coolant spraying onto my legs at one point! Oil looked very clean, reckon it must've been done recently, but the coolant was proper manky so I'm glad I did it. Had a tonne of crap come out of the rad too whilst I was flushing it so it was deffo in need of being done!

Drained the fuel tank again, checked all the fuel hoses and fitted a new fuel filter.

Jobs on for tomorrow (if I'm off work again) are to check the valve clearances, then do a compression test, rebalance the carbs (did them today but forgot they need doing after the valves), and then get greasing - copper greasing all the bolts and silicon everything else. Reckon the front tyre needs balancing too as its bit slappy at the moment if I take my hands off the bars, so will get that done as well whilst I'm at it (although thinking about it, did have one slightly sticky piston on the front brake which may have exagerated it)

[Hedgetrimmer]

I've had that with bleeding braided lines Joe. Sometimes you work away for what seems like forever, then bang! they suddenly firm up. Tying back the lever is only a temporary fix. They'll soon be back to how they were before doing this.

[JoeRock]

I've had that with bleeding braided lines Joe. Sometimes you work away for what seems like forever, then bang! they suddenly firm up. Tying back the lever is only a temporary fix. They'll soon be back to how they were before doing this.

Same Nick, i know the lever isn't a proper fix, but it should allow bubbles to collect in the highest points of the system (bleed nipples and hopefully the m/c banjo bolt which I can then bleed out tomorrow! Might see if I can find a cylinder with a built in bleed nipple actually, makes life so much easier!

[JoeRock]

Well somewhat annoyingly, it's still doing its strange misfiring below 5k ish thing!

However, I did notice yesterday that it appears to be considerably worse when wet. AFter about 20 minutes of riding it was a lot better, and it was exactly the same today, except that after about 20 minutes it appeared to be running completely fine!

I would thus suspect that I may be getting water into my spark plug caps, which is then causing this crap running until it dries out. Ordered a set of NGK caps which will hopefully be arriving tomorrow, so if they are I'll be taking my current ones off and rebuilding them with the NGK caps - fingers crossed!
WIll also be checking the valve clearances and hopefully the CCT - but to be honest from the fact that it occasionally runs spot on, I'm suspecting them to be fine!
Then just gotta give the front brakes a quick last rebleed, and I should be good to go!
Well, still need to check the front sprocket nut, wait for the chain and sprockets on there to die, and then replace them and get a scoittoiler!

[Hedgetrimmer]

Seem to be a lot of bikes on here recently with miss-fires, stutters etc (mine included). Is this just the price we pay for running older bikes? Could it be that 10 year old plus bikes are just experiencing electrical problems from the materials in old components (coils, HT leads, plug caps, wiring) degrading, and perhaps old fuel systems gumming up a bit? (have heard of people doing some pretty thorough carb cleaning etc, but then still having problems - when professionally cleaned after, problems cured). Just wondering.

[JoeRock]

Seem to be a lot of bikes on here recently with miss-fires, stutters etc (mine included). Is this just the price we pay for running older bikes? Could it be that 10 year old plus bikes are just experiencing electrical problems from the materials in old components (coils, HT leads, plug caps, wiring) degrading, and perhaps old fuel systems gumming up a bit? (have heard of people doing some pretty thorough carb cleaning etc, but then still having problems - when professionally cleaned after, problems cured). Just wondering.

You're probably right there to be honest Nick - particularly being combined with the amount of rain we've had recently, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the electrics on our bikes are mucking around, they all use the older non-sealed type connectors which must be letting water in!
Got my HT leads off and trimmed downa  little for fresh wire - not got my new NGK plug caps screwed on with a big dollop of grease around where the cable sits on the cap so that hopefully I won't get any water in there any more! Now just need it to stop absolutely hammering down so I can go and fit them, and then fingers crossed she'll start up as she should!

[simonm]

So those white pole doodahs were ceramic resistors ?  Neat.  What was the plug cover part numbers you requested ?  What was the resistor value ?


Cheers
Simon

[JoeRock]

Got a set of these Simon:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230778918900?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Darrsi on here was that fella that linked up first, but he and a bunch of other people have used them now.

BLoody good news so far, I ran the bike a bit before swapping them over, as to be expected now it had a lumpy idle, and wasn't revving right (dropping cylinders); Old HT leads off, fitted these, fitted them back on the bike, it fired up first stab of the button (well actually it didn't, but I'll get to that in a second), and within a couple of minutes had a bloody nice strong steady idle!

Did have me confused for a bit though, I had the coils back onto their bracket, with the caps on their respective spark plugs. Tank back on, attached that all up and tried to start the bike - no go. The engine was spinning, but it just wasn't starting. Of course after a couple of highly confused minutes, I remembered it would probably help if you connected the coils back to the loom! 

[darrsi]

So those white pole doodahs were ceramic resistors ?  Neat.  What was the plug cover part numbers you requested ?  What was the resistor value ?


Cheers
Simon

 
You can always buy original spark plug caps.......only £52 EACH 
 
http://www.yamahamotorcyclespares.co.uk/spares/epc2.asp?modelID=9656&PageiD=45&m=YAMAHA+FZS600+Fazer+ELECTRICAL+1&uID=0

[simonm]

Do you think the NGK caps would be considered as better than OEM or not ?


NGK are extremely well known for spark plugs and caps, would they produce better stuff than Yamaha or whomever makes it for Yamaha ?


I think I might have to get some NGK iridium plugs and caps for the next service.


Although, as an aside, the bird on page 2 looks even more mad than hot.


http://ngkntk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/2013-Motorcycle-Cat.pdf

[JoeRock]

Do you think the NGK caps would be considered as better than OEM or not ?


NGK are extremely well known for spark plugs and caps, would they produce better stuff than Yamaha or whomever makes it for Yamaha ?


I think I might have to get some NGK iridium plugs and caps for the next service.


Although, as an aside, the bird on page 2 looks even more mad than hot.


http://ngkntk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/2013-Motorcycle-Cat.pdf

Defiitely be worth doing I reckon to be honest - plugs at least. I've always put iridiums in every bike I've owned, I don't find a massive running difference but they definitely make startups a bit easier (although admittedly that may be because they're new, rather than specifically because they're iridium), but they also last for AGES, which makes them a lot more cost effective than usual plugs!
the caps are definitely better than the genuine yam ones I had - but then you'd seen how loose mine were! The seals on the NGK ones though are definitely tighter than the Yam ones (as in where the wire physically enters the cap, I don't have a gap any more so no more water ingress). To be honest at a tenner for the set, I don't really think you can go far wrong!

And Darrsi, that is absolutely mad, Yamaha must just not want to sell any spares at that kind of price!