Off-siding

[Grahamm]

Rather than drag the "Respect" thread off topic, I thought I'd post this in a new thread.

Firstly I was surprised when I read this article from the AA which was linked to in the other thread, because that's not "off-siding" as I understand the term, but rather "Illegal riding". A traffic island with blue sign with a white "Keep Left" arrow is a mandatory, ie you *must* obey it and going the wrong side of it is bloody dangerous as much as anything else.

However the definition of "off-siding" that I'm familiar with is when you position your bike across the centre line. generally on a left hand bend, in order to give yourself a better view of the road ahead.

Here is the current IAM advice on this practice for people taking their Advanced Test:

16: Definition clarification: ‘Off-siding’ = the crossing of the centre line/hazard line, (or in the absence of such a line, the centre of the carriageway) in order to extend a view.

Off-siding – Single track road clarification: In situations where there is no possibility of passing an oncoming vehicle due to the width of the road and in order to enable your presence to be seen earlier, this is acceptable, providing it is both advantageous and gives no risk of conflict.

Off-siding (to extend view) – two-way carriageway clarification:

Experience is showing that this is causing Candidates to put themselves in danger. The IAM actively discourages this practice and it is therefore not acceptable on test.

Related to this is their advice on straight-lining or "trimming" a series of bends:

17: Set of open bends – straight-lining/trimming clarification:

Trimming or straight-lining a set of open bends whilst acceptable on test must not be carried out if there is a risk of conflict with other road users or where it will inconvenience, confuse or cause alarm or distress, to others.

If the Candidate compromises their own or any other road user’s safety they will fail the test.

So mostly the advice seems to be "Don't put yourself in danger" and "Don't do something that will cause someone else to feel they have to change speed or direction".

[BBROWN1664]

[noggythenog]

Cheers graham


This is my idea of that technique although i hadn't actually heard of the term before.


Bit of a crap name imo as it sounds like high siding, off suggests falling off & off side is of course a negative couple o words in the football world,everything about its name 'suggests' danger when in fact it is safe.


Calling it 'Using the other lane' would just be too easy


Thanks for the clarification though

[Skippernick]

This was mentioned in my recent check ride before my IAM test, i do it occasionally.
BUT the AA have obviously got it wrong here. As a member i should complain.

[sure2ride]

I didn't know this was called "off siding" but it was something I was shown on my bikesafe course a few years ago, and which a ritired m/c cop friend of mine also does sometimes.  I often use it on single track road, and think it quite safe and helpful, but like everything else it is a matter of judgement, not to put yourself or anyone else in danger. IMHO though, as far as two carriageway roads are concerned , and although I ocassionally do use it on these roads, to be honest I feel it is more appropriate to an emergency responder than to the likes of us old codgers.....no offence intended   

[simonm]

I'll stick my oar in on a subject I know nothing about as I usually do...

It would seem to me that it would be best not to do this at all on the basis that there is no inference that a failure to do it would result in a fail where if you do it in the wrong situation you would fail.

Why take the risk for something that could cause you to fail, when, by not doing it you won't fail... Or will you?

[Raymy]

Is this the same thing as go8ng to the opposite side of the carriageway and getting a further vanishing point?

Reason I ask, I was on a b road in a transit van some years ago. All twists etc and behind a line of vehicles. Think a truck was holding everything up. Cannae mind. But two bike cops appreared at the back taking down the queue one at a time. They were in fro t of us for a wee while cos of oncoming traffic before one pulled ahead and jumped past some more. The other wasn't far behind but stayed a little longer. To get a view he pulled all the way to the right side of the road hugging the boundary line and popped back in. Waited til it was a bit clearer,  did it again and the resumed picking off cars one at a time.

Is that off siding?

[Skippernick]

Is this the same thing as go8ng to the opposite side of the carriageway and getting a further vanishing point?

Reason I ask, I was on a b road in a transit van some years ago. All twists etc and behind a line of vehicles. Think a truck was holding everything up. Cannae mind. But two bike cops appreared at the back taking down the queue one at a time. They were in fro t of us for a wee while cos of oncoming traffic before one pulled ahead and jumped past some more. The other wasn't far behind but stayed a little longer. To get a view he pulled all the way to the right side of the road hugging the boundary line and popped back in. Waited til it was a bit clearer,  did it again and the resumed picking off cars one at a time.

Is that off siding?

Thats the one, was there white lines on the road? My observer basically said if there are white lines don't do if not then technically you can use the whole of the road. Its all just get a better view of the road.

[sure2ride]

Thats the one my police buddy does, pretty sure thats what they mean by "off siding".

[Raymy]

Not double whites, overtaking allowed

[Grahamm]

Is this the same thing as go8ng to the opposite side of the carriageway and getting a further vanishing point?

[...]

Is that off siding?

Yes, that's one version of it. If it was a twisty bit of road, I'd have expected him to be taking views down the inside of the vehicles ahead as well before pulling out to check.

He may have been pushing it a bit by going all the way over to the far side of the other lane (difficult to know without seeing it personally) but Roadcraft says for a "three stage" overtake (ie where you have to wait behind another vehicle) that...

"[...] move out to an offside position. Generally, do this without accelerating. From this new position make a thorough information check of the road ahead and behind for any unidentified hazards. Decide whether to continue with overtaking."

As I mentioned in the OP, I think the reason the IAM disapproves of it is that, if you don't take proper care, you can put yourself and others at risk.

[Raymy]

He didn't accelerate until after he saw clear path. They were buzzing about in front long enough to see how good their technique was. Raymy was transfixed

[Noj]

Thank you Grahamm for posting, interesting and handy to know the quotes.

[pitternator]

Making full use of the road to maximise observation...is what its all about.
 
The issue is judging speed of oncoming vehicles, its not for beginners. Get it wrong and there is a very nasty accident potential. Get it right and the trade off is potential for swift progress through traffic queues etc. Its like filtering to some extent , as both are risky. Filtering much more so, but the issue with off siding is just at what point is it not risky...an advanced rider can justify their own techniques, but trying to pass that sixth sense, that reaction time etc to a pupil is impossible, so IMO its not for beginners.
The iAM will expect making use of your lane though , but always with caution regarding on coming traffic.
Plus people like to show off a bit , show how " advanced" they are etc to others,might be tempted to push the safety limit a bit ,let alone the issue of riders following their leader !  so in todays litigacious society I aint surprised its being dropped. I passed my IAM 14 yrs ago, and riding techniques were much more towards police standards back then, you were expected to show intelligent overtakes by off and near siding , making full use of bike acceleration , but showing restraint for all speed limits. Its actually quite difficult to get all that to meld!
 
Also dont forget a cop bike in full highviz will also get some respect from oncoming traffic, which we just wont ! It has to be a safe manoeuvre.

[caretaker]

i still prefer noggy's version - 'using the other lane'