Author Topic: Downpipe removal....Snapped things.... (Read 40295 times)

anutz · « **Reply #50 on:** 03 April 2015, 08:42:07 pm »

i shall get may hands on a tap set, and will set to work drilling and tapping at some point next week....

already have some M6 Stalin less Steel rod and Nuts

Paulfzs · « **Reply #51 on:** 03 April 2015, 09:19:22 pm »

centre punch in the middle of the snapped stuf then start with a tiny 2mm and work up, dont rush it! do not push hard!!! if you snap the drill bit itll be a bugger!

expect it to take an hour so chill.

anutz · « **Reply #52 on:** 03 April 2015, 09:38:29 pm »

thanks Paulfzs...

So its going ok, i have worked up to 5m diameter and 10mm depth...

I have stopped as i need to know

1. How deep do i go, i have no orignal studs to compare to
2. What diameter do i drill to, so i can then tap

I know the tap pitch i use depends on the rods i have, they are M6 from Screwfix but i need to measure the pitch etc

Thanks for your help ( all...)

Paulfzs · « **Reply #53 on:** 04 April 2015, 02:37:09 pm »

id say about 10mm depth is fine, i drilled mine till it went all the way through and had no resistance as the stud obviously wasnt all the way to the end of the threaded part.

tapping a 6mm thread into a 5mm hole is fine.

anutz · « **Reply #54 on:** 04 April 2015, 03:57:30 pm »

Thanks

Have done some practice drills and taps on a block i had, went well....so no concerns there, got a kit from screw fix, not the best in the world but good enough and has M6x1.0 and M6x0.75 tap drill bits

http://www.screwfix.com/p/carbon-steel-tap-die-set-51-piece-set/11449

Have almost done getting the head off and out the bike, no way i could get my tapping tools in the space i had, might be possible for some but i decided against it..no matter what i did i could not get access with the tap bit and handles...

I have the week off work, and i knew the carbs potentially had blocked pilot jets so i figure i may as well just go for broke

Just undoing the cam shaft covers....only the one thing i am not sure of is do i need to disconnect ALL the cables in the cable box and move them so i have room, but i suspect once i have the head cover off and cams out i will be ok

Anutz

bandit · « **Reply #55 on:** 04 April 2015, 04:36:45 pm »

Just a thought & I maybe wrong, but if the stud you are drilling out is 6mm would it not be better to tap a 8mm thread into the head,so purchase a 8mm to 6mm exhaust stud of the required length & correct thread pitch.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-exhaust-Stud-8mm-To-6mm-50mm-Long-/130644495868?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1e6b04cdfc

Paulfzs · « **Reply #56 on:** 04 April 2015, 05:19:52 pm »

i just took the cables out the black box then lifted the whole loom up as high as i could get it and cable tied it to the crossbar when i took my head off for inspection.

i can't help but think youre being a bit ignorant with advice.

youve ignored it a few times now, rather than removing the head i would have got a decent tap set that accepts a ratchet and extension bar like i did.

anutz · « **Reply #57 on:** 04 April 2015, 05:47:56 pm »

OK so - ignoring advice, the reason i wanted to try and get the studs out was that i intend to order a new set of down pipes, and did not fancy having to drill their clamps out - in hind sight it might have been easier.....but its always 20/20

regards getting the extension bar - good idea, but i already have the head off now....and its a lot easier with it on a bench then lying on the floor in a cramped space

i have much less experience than most on here, only had the bike about 3 months.....had no idea how an engine really worked until i started learning a few months back, so for me i am pleased i have taken it off and am making progress

red98 · « **Reply #58 on:** 04 April 2015, 05:49:19 pm »

Yep me too....extension of some sort, even if you have to make one yourself

.........that said.well done for tackling this yourself, alot of people would have given up by now, you can remove the cover without touching the electrics, its tight but doable, are you going to re-grind the valves whilst the heads off ?

anutz · « **Reply #59 on:** 04 April 2015, 06:01:00 pm »

thanks....

will not pretend to know what re-grinding the valves means - but before i re-assemble i shall make sure i have read up on what needs to be considered

i was thinking that if i am just going to put it back together i should not need to do too much else, aside from checking clearances and timing etc...

sinto · « **Reply #60 on:** 04 April 2015, 06:12:24 pm »

I know this is maybe a long shot, but if anyone is closer and who has more experience, would it not be a nice thing to offer to go and help, I've already messaged to offer anutz but he's too far away, I'd need a few nights away to help him, I'm sure anutz would have the kettle always on boil :-)

fazersharp · « **Reply #61 on:** 04 April 2015, 06:21:19 pm »

You are doing far more than I would dare attempt and the on-going updates of your work on this post are going to be helpful to many others, keep it up and don't forget to keep taking photos as you go and post them here

sinto · « **Reply #62 on:** 04 April 2015, 06:47:27 pm »

Quote from: fazersharp on 04 April 2015, 06:21:19 pm

You are doing far more than I would dare attempt and the on-going updates of your work on this post are going to be helpful to many others, keep it up and don't forget to keep taking photos as you go and post them here

+1
Just had a look at mine as I was washing it, again!
But anyhow, all the exhaust bolts look like stainless steel and from what I see of the studs that are showing they look the same so hopefully when I need to replace the exhaust as that looks original it should be ok, but not counting my chickens. Did ask myself why someone would just change the bolts/studs???

anutz · « **Reply #63 on:** 05 April 2015, 11:39:02 am »

Update, so i had the cylinder head of last night, was not that difficult, just needed some methodical steps...i.e. follow the service manual.....

Biggest thing was the prep, which took me all day - but worth it, had to tap the head with a rubber mallet a few times, was concerned i would not have clearance, but had no issues

I plan to put together a full description of what i have done and update the FIRST post at some point, but for now i need to asses what to do with the head and if i can save these exhaust studs, i had 2 to remove, one i did a good job with, the second as you will see when i post i drilled off center....so might just need to get a new head, OR i have seen someone rotate the clamp and drill into the opposite parts of the head...

one thing is for sure, putting it back together will be fun - have to make sure i get nothing wrong, do not fancy having to deal with broken valves/pistons....sure i shall have some more threads relating to any issues i encounter, or should i keep it all in here?

red98 · « **Reply #64 on:** 05 April 2015, 01:10:06 pm »

Good work anutz....main thing to watch out on re-asembly is that the timing marks are spot on, turn it over by hand a few times checking the marks as you go, dont try starting it unless the marks are spot on

Beeblebrox2nd · « **Reply #65 on:** 05 April 2015, 05:49:16 pm »

Am i just gonna piss everyone off now by saying that I went round to a mate's house on Friday afternoon for him to take my pipes off and replaces them, ready for a blast out today (Sunday) and that everything went swimmingly well and had the bike back to me by that evening? Had them off in 20 mins (applied mini cooking blowtorch heat to each nut before it came off(also, engine was still hot from riding it there)) and didn't even need any spray lubricant at all. Bearing in mind my bike's a boxeye '01, with near 60K on the clocks and these were the original downpipes(you could tell by the state of them!) then either my friend is a damned genius at doing this job, or one lucky $%*!?

darrsi · « **Reply #66 on:** 05 April 2015, 05:53:57 pm »

Had to take mine off when i got the bike as my mechanic said the down pipes were blowing a bit, and they had TWO sets of gaskets fitted.

anutz · « **Reply #67 on:** 05 April 2015, 07:03:07 pm »

Enjoy the nice weather Beeblebrox2nd....i wish i could have gone out today!

Anyway.....at least the head is off and i can now easily either repair the snapped studs, else buy a new head, which is what im tending to think might be best, i am sure i drilled one off center due to me trying the initial steps while the bike was in the frame and access was less than optimal...

sinto · « **Reply #68 on:** 05 April 2015, 07:18:22 pm »

Quote from: Beeblebrox2nd on 05 April 2015, 05:49:16 pm

"either my friend is a damned genius at doing this job, or one lucky $%*!?"

Probably both ;-) but it's just jealousy on my and most other people's part lol

fazersharp · « **Reply #69 on:** 05 April 2015, 07:44:18 pm »

Quote

Anyway.....at least the head is off and i can now easily either repair the snapped studs, else buy a new head, which is what im tending to think might be best, i am sure i drilled one off center due to me trying the initial steps while the bike was in the frame and access was less than optimal...

Could you elongate the hole in the clamp to match

His Dudeness · « **Reply #70 on:** 06 April 2015, 01:11:08 am »

You could just drill and tap the next size up and use a bigger stud and nut. The studs on the fazer are too small anyway. That's one of the reasons they snap so easily. If you're buying a new head make sure it comes with the original cam caps because they're machined specifically to fit that head. Cam caps off another head won't work

anutz · « **Reply #71 on:** 06 April 2015, 09:15:12 am »

I am going to take the head to an engineers shop local to me - ideas are...

1. Get the holes drilled and tapped with a larger diameter if there is enough tolerance to line up with the exhaust clamps, depends on if i made too much of an error....

2. Rotate the clamps 90 degrees and drill 2 new holes for studs i.e. studs move left at the top and right at the bottom, i have seen some posts on the old site where someone did this and it seemed to work fine

3. buy a new head.....depending on the costs of the above, but i know mine has only done 18,000 miles so would like to save it....if possible....

would it be a good idea to do the timing chain whilst i have the head off?

Jules-C · « **Reply #72 on:** 06 April 2015, 10:43:23 am »

1. Engineering shop should be able to sort off centre hole. Depending on how off centre may have to go oversize but could helicoil insert to bring it back to 6mm or use a stepped stud 8mm in head and 6mm for exhaust clamp.

2. Fine if others done it then no problems with drilling into oilway in head.

3. New (used) head could bring new problems you would only find out about after putting it all back together.

Shouldn't need to do cam chain after 18k

If engineers shop reckon hole to bad to retap at 6mm I'd go for helicoil and fit stainless stud/threaded rod

anutz · « **Reply #73 on:** 06 April 2015, 11:42:53 am »

Thanks Jules-C - that sounds like potentially the next best step - like you say new head could bring new issues...

anutz · « **Reply #74 on:** 06 April 2015, 11:50:40 am »

OK so i have contacted a local engineering firm and am awaiting a reply - will post some pictures of the current state the 2 snapped studs are in a little later....and hopefully at some point not too far off....the resolution!