Author Topic: Lots of Gen 1 in the new Jan 2012 issue of BIKE (Read 7853 times)

AyJay · « **on:** 26 November 2011, 11:25:25 am »

The issue's main theme is All Rounders and I'm pleased to see the Gen 1 beats the new Multistrada and the old VFR 750, not to mention the BMW GS 1200. Not bad for a bike designed probably 12 or 13 years ago.

I was at the Bike show last weekend and asked about whether there would be a crossplane Fazer (and begged them for a decent sized tank on it too). The Yamaha chap was saying nothing. . . .

tomjimtom · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 November 2011, 12:53:47 pm »

we even get a mention

best sit up straight

dekker555 · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 November 2011, 06:37:16 pm »

Is Bike mag available in the newsagents please?

tomjimtom · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 November 2011, 04:49:34 pm »

I got it from smiths, should be in most newsagents (all good newsagents.... )

pitternator · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 November 2011, 02:12:04 pm »

hmmm... I had a vfr750 and tbh its not comparable. The vfr handling is streets ahead of a stock fazer.It was a thinking mans sportsbike .Quality oozed out of every pore, an incredibly quality watch like machine... Power yes the fazer has more, but on the road the vfr could keep up with anything. Its a jewel, a beautifully crafted machine, which makes the fazer seem just a bitsa . And I have owned 2 gen1s, done 70k miles on them...but the vfr 750 is an absolute classic.Shame they stopped making them, much better than newr offerings ( IM very humble Op)
Also dont see just how you can compare a MS either ! Maybe if you look at how much a FZ-1 is brand new these days, its about the same as a basic MS. I feckin know which bike I would buy !

...the gen1 only beats a MS on price, IMO in all other respects its a no contest. Looks, electronics, handling etc...and its a ducati !
If you had 12k spare to spend on a bike...what would you do ?...buy a gorgeous red new MS ...or save money( cash which you maybe dont need or care to) by buying a 11 yr old design bike with known ( though easily fixable flaws).....the gen1 makes sense for bikers on a budget. If I could afford one, give me a MS over any gen1 ! Its a price issue, not a bike issue.
In my ideal world we all could afford a MS....or a GS ... or a 1198 !

AyJay · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 November 2011, 09:45:28 pm »

Yes, Mr P, you and I are of a mind. I owned two VFRs and the '89 FK is still the most satisfying bike I've ever owned. Thinking man's sports bike indeed. God I loved that thing. But over the years, Honda failed to keep the VFR up with the Joneses, so what's a chap to do? buy a Fazer 1000, that's what. VFRs are lovely, but they just don't have the oomph I want. I agree, it is a bit bitza compared to the VFR, which is probably the most considered machine of all mass produced bikes, but the Fazer makes up for it on so many fronts - power, simplicity, comfort, DIYability - and thanks to our Lord Ivan and others, it's so easy to make it better.

I've ridden the Multistrada and it is leagues ahead of everything else I've ridden this year, but I didn't buy one not just because of the price but something that BIKE crystallised for me; it's not exactly relaxed. It's a bit highly strung and only being able to use the first 3 gears until you hit 40 would drive me nuts when pottering on a tour or during town work. But heavens, that suspension was an eye opener. So it should be. The one I rode was the top spec 15k MS.

The bike I was going to buy was the VFR 1200, even if it was obscenely ugly and expensive. Then I rode one. I can't get over how disappointed I was. I keep going on about it to friends. Who are not now my friends.

It was going to be a struggle financially, but if it had been as good as I remember the ol' VFR, I'd have made the sacrifice.

I'm now waiting for a cross plane Fazer. Or for Honda to do what they always do and launch a second gen V4 which fixes all the problems of the first (remember the VF750F?) Drop the weight, sort the awful engine, give it a decent sized tank and make it pretty. They are perfectly capable of this if you think how they revolutionised big 4 cylinder sports bikes with the Blade, so why couldn't they adopt the same strategy with sports tourers? Why did they have to create a 268kg monster with a crap power delivery, awful linked brakes, poor ABS and a limited top speed?

So, as you say, it all comes down to money. Am I going to spend huge money to get something that only partly beats the Gen 1? No. Although, if I win the lottery, I'll design my own sports tourer - V5, 1000cc, 200kg max, full fairing, large tank, riding position somewhere between VFR and Fazer, 21 litre tank, comfy seat. And around 150bhp at the rear wheel. Can't decide on chain or shaft drive though. Hmm, maybe belt . . .

What would your perfect sports tourer be? (let me guess - similar, but with an 1200cc triple!)

pitternator · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 November 2011, 07:35:24 am »

My ideal bike ? well yes it would be either a big twin or triple , to get engine character...as IMO 130 bhp is enuff for road bikes. Your comment on vfr 12 is intresting since after my test ride I actually thought this bike has not got the oomph of a fazer below 6k let alone the outgoing blackbird.Its all about torque and usability. Its why I love the triple engine.Plus its actually a more " satisfying " power delivery. Gutsy, almost a bit savage ( on the speed triple anyway ! ) ...how a bike " should feel". My issue with 4 cyl bikes is the turbine delivery of power, which while impressive enuff cos of the numbers, is just a bit sanitised in delivery.I do believe Yam deliberately gave the FZ-1 this lightswitch power delivery to try to give it " character".
The viffer 12 makes sense over 100 mph where it has phenomenal grunt , but at 60 its almost like any other large capacity 4 cyl bike.The old 750 felt almost like a twin in its gruff power delivery , very satisfying , power just where you want it. I test rode my 750 back to back with a firestorm back in '97 and was surprised just how comparable in grunt a 750 V4 was to a 1000cc twin. Feck, somehow along the line, Honda lost that V4 sparkle.I fell in love with that vfr even though it cost way more than I wanted to pay. Sadly I got taken out by a smidsy car driver and it was destroyed along with my right knee! It actually was the very last 750 in the country at the time and irreplaceable. I would buy one again 2 moro .

Our beloved gen1 is almost in a class of 1. I have tried alternatives over the years but none hit the spot for one reason or other. I put it down to the great combo of easygoing chassis with an outstanding engine , power way above anything in its class at the time...and the incredible aftermarket work done by several fazer gurus eg ivan, pat etc....as well as pioneering work done by several veteran foccers eg falcon in getting aftermarket solutions to known issues, and the ease of working on this classically styled simple to work on bike.
It has meant that one can simply log onto e bay or look in mcn...buy a good condition low miler fazer for around £3k...spend a max of £1k to uprate sussies, fit a jet kit , and be rewarded with what is still a very potent competitive yet incredibly useable competant road bike.TBH on the road ones speed will be limited mostly by ones cojones, and on track by the footpegs ( or crash bungs) touching down. Even if I do end up buying a MS , GS , or whatever,I cant see me selling my fazer . I mean it dont owe me anything but it has given me so much fantastic biking adventures over the last 10 yrs to last a lifetime. It is a classic bike, and will be a keeper .
However we cant just stand still, and I for one will want to sample these latest goodies just to see if they do indeed offer some sort of alternative. Out of all of them my feeling is still the only real alternative is gonna be a GS 12 simply because it can do the off road stuff , and has without doubt the best alpine/ back road handling of any bike I have ever encountered bar none ! So , while it does give away a big chunk of top end power ...one questions just if that really counts on most roads ??.....dont like to admit it , but I could end up " joining the clan" !

....

...
if nothing else to satisfy myself as to its real capability vs the hype ???...now you can get them with a road bike seat height rather than towering traillie, its more likely than ever .

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 November 2011, 08:21:50 am »

If it's multi-role use and triple engine character you want, Jon, time to arrange a test on the new Triumph 1200 Adventurer I'd say.

Got to be better than that wheezy, unreliable old German boxer twin thing.

As for mods to the Gen 1, you missed out the guy that's done more than any of us - Devilsyam. One of the first to slot in R1 forks, plus a host of other tweaks and farkles over the years. Most recently, he's lead the way with the R6 shock mod which has transformed the bikes of dozens on this forum and over the Pond.

Credit where it's due, Luke's done the most pioneering on the Gen 1 and that by some distance.

Mike

MEM62 · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 November 2011, 11:08:48 am »

The VFR / FZS debate is always one that interests me - particularly because I have a 2005 FZS1000 and a 1998 VFR800fi. Both bikes are excellent machines in their own right but are so different that direct comparison isa difficult. The Fazer I have owned for the past 5 years and the VFR I have had for three. In the past I would change bikes every three years or so but, since owning these two, have no desire to change. The FZS1000 is comfortable, easy to ride and has more than enough performance for road use. Mine does have an end can and an Ivan's kit. Even the suspension, often slated, I have no issues with - although I did take the time and trouble to set it up properly. The VFR is addictive; less comfortable than the Fazer although I have done 600 miles in a day on it. Even after 13 years (It's its birthday tomorrow!) and 40,000 miles it rides like a new bike - although I did replace the shock this year.
I love both bikes and would imagine that they will be gracing my garage for some years to come.

mickdel · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 November 2011, 02:18:59 pm »

Quote from: Falcon 269 on 30 November 2011, 08:21:50 am

If it's multi-role use and triple engine character you want, Jon, time to arrange a test on the new Triumph 1200 Adventurer I'd say.

Got to be better than that wheezy, unreliable old German boxer twin thing.

As for mods to the Gen 1, you missed out the guy that's done more than any of us - Devilsyam. One of the first to slot in R1 forks, plus a host of other tweaks and farkles over the years. Most recently, he's lead the way with the R6 shock mod which has transformed the bikes of dozens on this forum and over the Pond.

Credit where it's due, Luke's done the most pioneering on the Gen 1 and that by some distance.

Mike

Yep, Luke certainly is a trailblazer.

Gray fox · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 November 2011, 08:26:54 pm »

Just read the Bike article, made me remember why i dont buy mags anymore. The usual regurgitated ill informed twaddle. I do lots of riding in the company of VFRs my gen1 always beats them on fuel consumption and range whilst travelling at the same speed. I admit they are a good bike as long as you dont have to do your own maintenance. As for the BMW GS well i had a brief spell of ownership, it doesn't do anything as well as the Fazer, i would even prefer to take the Fazer off road, at least i would be able to pick it up when i fell off. My tip is enjoy what you have, and forget about the latest overpriced stuff in the mags you will be much happier, as i am for getting that lot off my chest.

PieEater · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 November 2011, 08:55:25 pm »

Quote from: Gray fox on 30 November 2011, 08:26:54 pm

Just read the Bike article, made me remember why i dont buy mags anymore. The usual regurgitated ill informed twaddle.

I must admit I found myself scratching my head after having studied the list of the best 25 "Bikes That Do It All" where the Gen1 came #3 to then read the companion article where the 4 top bikes are riden side by side and the general concensus is that the Gen1 is the bike they'd choose, so evidently it should have been #1.

AyJay · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 November 2011, 09:16:53 pm »

Yeah. I was a bit baffled by the VFR winning too. It has sold shed loads more than the Fazer though, and is more of a quality item. Actually, that's nonsense. I'd been through the disks on my 750 by 25,000 miles and the exhaust fell apart soon after that! Fazer's still rock solid in those areas at 88,500 miles.

With regards to the VFR12 being less gutsy than the Fazer, I noticed that. Below 90, it really doesn't feel any faster at all. And oddly enough, I'd ridden the VFR VTech just a couple of weeks before and been surprised that the Fazer was less gutsy than that at very low revs, so for an extra 400cc, the 12 really is sorely lacking in oomph.

Reading the replies and having had the chance to think more on this, I think the reason the VFR12 was such a let down was because I was expecting the 800 but with Fazer power at the top end. And yet here was a bike that has had it's power delivery ruined by electronic interference below 90. And let's face it, that's where most people ride most of the time. Except in Germany. On holiday. You never saw me, right!

I did contemplate getting a 12 and 'fixing' it - but I don't think there's a PCIV for it, you can't do anything about the poor ABS (nor the linked brakes because of the ABS), dropping weight would be very difficult, no one does a full system for it and even if all this was possible, well, you're looking at many thousands. And that's before you look at it again and realise it'll never ever be a good looking machine.

Yes. Stick with what I've got. Actually, I suspect I'm going to supplement it with a decent '89 VFR and fit it out with CBR6 forks and wheels (for radial tyres). Maybe an Ohlins too . .

Although, there's always this . .

http://www.aaperf.com/vfrkit-gen5.html

while I'm waiting for a crossplane Fazer

cable tie · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 November 2011, 11:09:29 pm »

Ive owned a GS and im sure JP will

value for money its by far the best i brought mine new in nov 2010 was the latest DOHC engine vastly improved over previous years much more GRUNT twas a pre-reg so good saving i did 2500 miles around germany in may for 9 days, and 3500 miles going to imola (italy) for 11 days end of sept-oct, and the odd weekend ride outs and i took all my bling off and just sold the bike all i lost was £600 over the price i brought it new i doubt there is any other bike that holds its value as good as a GS, it used some oil as all do till about 30k i thrashed it a real goodun and it never let me down once.

Minced with sportsbikes to and fro italy with ease as you find you can ride a GS faster in the twisties than a spastic rocket due to the confidence it gives

I was going to Replace it with a Multistrada a full dancing n singing pikes peak or s-sport but they got serious issues no rear brakes, gearbox jumping out of gears, eletronics locking you out the list just goes on and on, so if any one is thinking about a used one think wisely no extended warranty can be taken unless you have owned from new $:\$ , (however bmw will extend the warranty on there bikes to any owner as long as bike serviced upto date and its not expensive for what you get) so tbh i dont think a MS is good value unless you prepared to loose a sh1t load of wonga, used MS bikes aint selling.

Dave

pitternator · « **Reply #14 on:** 07 December 2011, 08:13:42 am »

Falcon- I did write " several veteran foccers"...of course Luke is one of them.However in my book you are responsible for pioneering the implementation of the 2 greatest fazer mods - ivans jet kit ...and K tech suspension solution...both at a very early stage in fazer history, hence why you appear first in my list......I aint sure about the 1200 trumpet cos its very tall m8 ! I struggled a bit with the seat height of the 800, although it is a cracking back roads bike. Awesome handling.The 1200 is actually reported to be a bit taller...
The GS- feck, what an enigma....me and dek's encounter in the pyrenees with a pair of german plated GS 1150s back in 04 is abit of folklore now, our fazers obviously much more power on any straight bits, but struggled to keep up in the tight twisties. Since then I have encountered GS12s which were fastr than my fully modded fazer in mountain passes...so power is not the issue. They have a handling which inspires their riders to absolutely chuck them into bends.Whilst I never claim to be the fastest out there, if you go by me when I am on it...you are doing well. So I am quite happy to give praise where its due .Just having a fast bike dont make you a fast rider.Maybe on a road I know very well, or a track, the power advantage of a fazer will count , but so far , on the road, GS riders dont seem disadvantaged...
Dave- I cant see me going MS for the same reason as above- very tall seat height. By contrast you can get a GS with seat as low as 790mm !! Bout the same as me cut down fazer seat.I really dont know what bike I will go for next...may just keep the fazer , and maybe look at either the speed triple R ( very pricey for a second bike !

) or possibly a tricked up street triple R with all the goodies...reason being it will always be a back road scratcher , so aint sure the speed triple really much faster on such roads...I also am liking the new 848 duke streetfighter, for similar reason.Might even go completely left field and get one of those steve mcqueen bonnies !

what i will say about the ( old model 1050) speed triple is its engine is so satisfying to use, its handling good enuff for most road situations, its been one of my favourite bikes to own and ride. It is a better ride overall than the fazer , which some may raise an eyebrow over, down to its superb responsive engine, fantastic brakes and forgiving ergos. But its not an allrounder, so ultimately cant replace the fazer. I will for sure ride the 1200 explorer, if it rides as well, its a possibility.But the fazer will remain.

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #15 on:** 07 December 2011, 10:35:41 am »

Fair enough, JP ... I'll own up to 'veteran' and I guess that's why I was early onto the Ivan's and K-tech stuff but Luke's the fella who has spent time really thinking about cost-effective ways to improve the Gen 1. Granted, some of the mods on his 80s duvet cover 'un were anything but cheap (I'm thinking single-side swingarm, ISR/rim-mount front brake etc) but any man who gets thrown out of Fowlers for lying on the floor measuring R6 shocks is sure to get my vote.

I tend to forget the inside leg challenge of the 'tall-rounders' and I confess to sitting on the GS1200 and thinking 'hmm, comfortable' but that's as close as I'll get to buying one. I like reliability, me.

I've tried mates' Sprint 1050 and Tiger 1050 and I must be missing something because the triple motor did nothing for me at all. It felt rather wooffly and I didn't feel I was riding anything particularly torquey. The Sprint felt long and slow-steering. The Tiger was tall and roomy - a good distance tool, no doubt - but my boat remained firmly on the beach.

As for being embarrassed by GS riders, one of our crew over here is a police car and bike instructor. Used to ride a GS1200 with his life's possessions in the panniers (about 40 kgs, I'm convinced - why he never took them off beats me) but he'd fly round the outside of even our quickest riders as though he was obeying his own Laws of Physics, Jim. All you'd hear would be this noise like a WWI biplane, then the Red Baron's shadow would flit rapidly past your eyeline. Still, at least he was first at the cafe to get the orders in ...

Cheers!

Mike

pitternator · « **Reply #16 on:** 08 December 2011, 12:57:46 pm »

Its intresting about your thoughts on sprints and tigers. I owned 2 sprints, both had triumph aftermarket cans, with remaps, and did pull quite hard from low revs, top speed about 165 to 168 on speedo.The 1050 engine is all about torque, and the sprint felt right on fast A roads and sweepers.... I have ridden tigers and they definitely are in a lower state of tune to the sprint.Maybe as much as 10 -15 less bhp. They do feel much less urgent .
My speed triple is completely different. Lower gearing , about 5 to 10 bhp more than the sprint , ,courtesy of the open arrows and a remap,40 kgs less weight ....its so in yer face, makes the full monty fazer seem weak till its pulling 6000rpm.A rear tyre lasts 2000 miles if I am lucky. You could very easily get yerself into trouble by riding one cackhandedly.0 to 100 is just so damned quick and easy to do, not even hard revving! Its sheer throttle response in any gear , and the roar of its engine is a real experience....hard not to grin and lark around like a complete nutter when you ride it...rather diffrent to a sprint , and overwhelming compared to a tiger.Not everyones cup of tea, but you can ride it reasonably civilly , and is comfy enuff for long days out. Though its not a bike I would tour on.
The sprint is better in that role, the softer power delivery better suited to roll on roll off situations, and its the comfiest bike I have ridden. TBH if you rode at 9/10ths,didnt push to the max, dont know if you would ever need any more.Its power delivery was torquey, but very controllable. The sprints weakness was a bit of topheavyness in slow tight corners, but IMO thats all.I also disliked the underseat exhaust because of practicality.
Where the fazer scores for me is its chuckability , especially in tight corners.The weight distribution is just right.... In a way its a bit GS like...on paper it shouldnt be so good. I put it down to the steering geometry which while not as sharp as some bikes,with the wide bars just give so much confidence in hurling the bike about and cranking into corners. I think back to sept this year at Cadwell Park...feck the bike is still competitive against sportsbikes. Wont beat them, but feck they marvelled at its handling and speed out of corners. And with a top speed of 150+ is very hard to drag on the straights. Only modern R1, blades, 1198 dukes etc have the power advantage to do so.IMO ..what you can do with a modded fazer is down to the rider more than the bike...ground clearance issue aside.Yet at the same time, its so capable of doing the big tour, strapping on huge amounts of luggage, has a big tank range, good mpg etc....its why it beats the sprint IMO.Not really so much the power , more the all rounder stuff.
And all for little money eh ???

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #17 on:** 08 December 2011, 03:18:27 pm »

I guess I should reserve final judgement on the 1050 motor until I get chance to try one in the Speed Triple, Jon. Lower weight, extra bhp and geared to suit would obviously change the game completely.

For now, though, I still can't get beyond my well-modded Gen 1. It does all I want and more. Rode it today after yesterday's trip on Cable Tie's first Gen 1 with the standard sussies and it feels so very different - in a good way. Plus the motor in mine is virtually vibe-free by comparison. Good to get the opportunity to compare after so many years of only riding my own.

SEPTIKANGEL · « **Reply #18 on:** 08 December 2011, 06:37:28 pm »

Quote from: Falcon 269 on 07 December 2011, 10:35:41 am

one of our crew over here is a police car and bike instructor.

This guy local (originally) to Merseyside Mike?

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #19 on:** 08 December 2011, 07:35:31 pm »

I don't know, mate. He's a Brummy (not that I hold that against him

) but he could have worked with another force. Name's Paul and like I said, he used to have a GS1200. He's changed it this year for a 1200 Bandit, which I guess is a value for money tourer but not what I'd have expected him to go for over the Beemer.

He'll still be riding around the outside of me on that, I'm sure ...

SEPTIKANGEL · « **Reply #20 on:** 08 December 2011, 09:37:30 pm »

Nope, don't know him then, ta...... a Bandit going round the outside of a Fazer?...........never, never, ever.........pride comes before a..........etc..... and it brings us back to the original topic then I suppose (sorry)

If anyone from BIKE reads this, maybe they could explain just HOW they arrived at the VFR being placed at 'number 1 allrounder' position when the four journos testing clearly favoured the Fazer eh?

tomjimtom · « **Reply #21 on:** 09 December 2011, 12:17:37 pm »

Yeah, sorry Mike, you'll have to take him out, the pride of thousands is at stake (ish)

I would imagine they take into account other things, not just a day or so of testing round country lanes in the dry

Maybe the VFR is cheaper/ was cheaper when it was new compared to the fazer?
More people bought VFRs?
full fairing gives more wind/weather protection?
Honda have a reputation for better build quality

I don't know, and obviously I also favour the Fazer but I would imagine (for once) a motorcycle publication hasn't based it's overall view on 4 people of a fairly similar mindset riding 1 example of each bike for a few hours

Also, if they continue saying the VFR is better, Fazers will stay cheap

AyJay · « **Reply #22 on:** 09 December 2011, 09:38:45 pm »

It's a very traditional view that the VFR is the greatest all rounder ever, isn't it? There must be a bit of 'we'll say what people expect' going on there, I think.
But having owned both, the Fazer is the better bike. The handling is maybe not quite as secure, but then it's miles faster than any VFR (and you could almost take the new 1200 into account there). It's certainly more comfortable and although the paint finish is poorer on the Gen1 Fazer, the overall quality I think is better. Apart from the rear shock, everything on mine is working as it was 90k miles ago. That's amazing, if you ask me. Show me a VFR on it's original disks and suspension linkages at that mileage . ..
I have to say though, all this talk of VFRs has me gagging for another. And look at the prices of them .. cheap as chips.

solorider · « **Reply #23 on:** 10 December 2011, 08:37:39 am »

Quote from: AyJay on 09 December 2011, 09:38:45 pm

It's a very traditional view that the VFR is the greatest all rounder ever, isn't it? There must be a bit of 'we'll say what people expect' going on there, I think.
But having owned both, the Fazer is the better bike. The handling is maybe not quite as secure, but then it's miles faster than any VFR (and you could almost take the new 1200 into account there). It's certainly more comfortable and although the paint finish is poorer on the Gen1 Fazer, the overall quality I think is better. Apart from the rear shock, everything on mine is working as it was 90k miles ago. That's amazing, if you ask me. Show me a VFR on it's original disks and suspension linkages at that mileage . ..
I have to say though, all this talk of VFRs has me gagging for another. And look at the prices of them .. cheap as chips.

i have a vfr750 which i found a great bike,but i have to sell it as i have wrist problems so i find it uncomfortable to ride,the seat i have found is the most comfortable for a long time and i could easily ride for 200 miles without a sore bumb.
here is my bike

i just need to readvertise it