Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: phillywilly on 15 October 2012, 06:44:52 pm
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well it looks like in a couple of years scotland will be independent ,sure they have to vote on it but come on what scottish person WANTS to be part of the uk ?- certainly none that ive ever met,
so any scottish bikers on here ,what do you think -stay or go ? :evil
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VNA is desperate to stay part of the UK :lol :lol
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Don't be so sure PW - many, many Scots want to stay. Not fussed either way meself though!
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I was born in Scotland, (Largs in Ayrshire), my mum is scottish born,my dad is yorkshire born,my mums parents are from southern Ireland,her grandmother was French. Which country will I need a passport from?
Lads at work reckon I will be deported but I am just going to hide behind the human rights act.
Besides, as I keep telling them,if they could treat their women right and work as hard as me we would not have to come across the border :)
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they cant leave, because wales will have no one they can beat in the football. :lol
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i think the english should be allowed to vote for independence ,just to jump on the band wagon :lol
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Im for leaving :eek and its got nowt to do with oil.. that arguments worn itself out long ago.. now water and renewable electricity.. thats a different story :b :evil
I think the rest of the UK could actually benefit from it too in the long run...
Nothing to do with hating those south of the border.. Being near the Border I live too damn close to it for that but I do think it would be best for the country.. Im all for strong trade links with those south of us.. we would still have the same monarch Im led to believe and would still need to share a defence policy etc..
be interesting to see how things pan out.. irrespective of who wins some rich bugger is still gonna be hunting me for tax etc..
In fact while we are at it England or Wales or even Northern Ireland could go Independant too ;) politicials are a lot easier to egg when theyre closer to you ha ha
Budgie
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Rebuild harians wall :lol
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Let them have it. Let them fend for themselves with no English perks at all. That's fine with me :)
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And for once and for all their currency will not be legal tender darn sauf! :lol
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Ha ha knew this could be a hornets nest..
You do know Hadrians walls about 20 mile south of the border in England so if you wanna give us that extra territory thats fine with me.. Its all good biking roads..
Handouts.. They work both ways but im happy to stop the so called westminster handouts too.. You can keep the politicians though. I think thats only fair..
Currency.. You do know that english money isnt actually legal tender in Scotland too.. Its accepted though a lot easier than a scots note is in a Bradford chippie is though..
Who knows if any of this will happen or not.. Does it mean i gotta ditch and deport all my English mates.. Nah doubt it..
sent from somewhere beyond the rim.
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In fact while we are at it England or Wales or even Northern Ireland could go Independant too ;) politicials are a lot easier to egg when theyre closer to you ha ha
Budgie
Cornwall could become an independant State at the same time
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will they still want to be funded ;) :rollin :rollin :rollin
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i think the only difference it will make is they wont be able to blame them bastard english when it rains or snows or when they lose a poofball. also the free prescriptions and university will have to be rethunk. good luck to em i say,im not a sweaty sock but i love the place ;)
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Since moving to Wales I can honestly say that there is zero chance of them ever becoming independant.
Everything of note that we have discovered in Wales was either thought of, or done by, an English person - up to and including the resurrection in their schools of the Welsh language.
Culturally they don't seem to be on the same wavelength as the rest of the country (not better or worse - just different). It's a bit like it was in the 80's (albeit without the mining). In some ways this is better - their kids seem a lot happier overall (until they get older and having nothing to do and no jobs).
It makes us laugh when we walk into a local shop and they suddenly switch from English to Welsh :) There have been quite a few really friendly Welsh people, but the vast majority seem to have quite a large chip on their shoulders.
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Not bovvered either way but.............................
If they get it, what happens to all the militant Scots in OUR parliament and unions?
No more free prescriptions paid for by England.
If they want to sell us oil it needs to be at a competitive price.
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I say give them independance, then shut the feckin border. :lol
Majority of scots do nothing but moan about the english. :rolleyes ( yet so many come here to live, its so horrible :o ).
Little do they realise we dont really give a stuff for them either.IMO if they want to go, let them. I doubt many will shed a tear :\ ......Let them see what life without any form of support from us will be like. :eek
I spose cornwall will be next .... :b
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'I spose cornwall will be next .'
Hope so - full of bloody Laaandaners anyway :lol
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When my rich neighbour goes on about how great his lawnmower is, and all the cool shit it can do, it does make me wonder why the lawn is still a total mess.
Y'see, he goes on rather a lot about it, and he also claims that he subsidises me for mine, forgetting that I I actually cut the communal lawn for the benefit of the community. He hates this of course, cos he basks in his own arrogance that they should do it themselves and pay their way, even tho they do pay, he just refuses to see it cos he's stuck in his ways.
He also likes to showcase his oneupmanship whenever he can, and this works on occasion, but often, and I mean often, he is left to deal with his own failure and refuses to be content with what he has and shut the fuck up, and instead, actually having the brass neck to tell all the rest of the street about how great he is and what he does for us all.
We all put a bit into the coffers, but cos he's the richest, he thinks its all him, forgetting about all the good work everyone else does.
Such arrogance. Anyone would think he grew up trying to conquer brown people in their own back yard. He doesn't do that now. Well, at least not off his own back. He has richer pals for that now so he doesn't have to.
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we wouldn't need our passports cos we'd fly over the top of you, or sail right past on the ferries to reach more interesting neighbours.
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all scots need work visas :b
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all scots need work visas :b
why ?- cos none of them work
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well it looks like in a couple of years scotland will be independent ,sure they have to vote on it but come on what scottish person WANTS to be part of the uk ?- certainly none that ive ever met,
so any scottish bikers on here ,what do you think -stay or go ? ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/GARETH%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url])
It ain't about whether you are Scottish or not, if you are a permanent resident in Scotland you will get a vote in this referendum. My English friends a few doors down will be enthusiastically voting for Scottish Independence.
I was born in Scotland, (Largs in Ayrshire), my mum is scottish born,my dad is yorkshire born,my mums parents are from southern Ireland,her grandmother was French.
Another Largs man! Welcome.
I think the rest of the UK could actually benefit from it too in the long run...
Indeed, That would be my hope. That firstly it works, and secondly that it improves not only our lives in Scotland, but perhaps those also in other countries. And this isn't about 'Nationalism' as such, it's about self determination. The polls suggest it's not gonna happen. But then it's early days in a 2 year campaign, who knows what will happen, but I'd say this to those residing in this wee nation, do you want a government that you voted for, or a government imposed on you by another nation. Yet again we've got a bunch of Eton educated toffs in power that nobody up here voted for. I lived through the Thatcher years , I'm seen Labour become the New Tory Party, and now we have the Toffs back again. Enough is enough.
i think the only difference it will make is they wont be able to blame them bastard english when it rains or snows or when they lose a poofball. also the free prescriptions and university will have to be rethunk. good luck to em i say,im not a sweaty sock but i love the place
You are absolutely right Chilly. The problem with Scots is, that despite practically inventing the modern world, we still seem to think we need other people to tell us what to do. Then we moan about. The biggest problem Scotland has is her people, where is our self confidence? It's time to stop blaming the English, it's time to stop bitching about scum bag Tories, stand up on our own two feet and get on with it.
No more free prescriptions paid for by England.
Free Prescriptions? Paid for by England? No, simply not the case. The Scottish parliament is given a budget by Westminster, the Scottish parliament then decides how to spend that money.
Also the hope is that free prescriptions while not only keeping to the NHS pledge of health care for all will actually pay for itself and quite possibly save us money. Means testing costs money. And many people previous to free prescriptions had to decide whether or not to go to the Doctor - could they afford another expensive prescription. Those people a few years down the line often end up in hospital. Prescriptions are a lot cheaper than hospital beds.
And look if we don't win this referendum, well it'll be time to talk about the second question - devo max. Then in about a decade time another Independence referendum . We'll get there eventually.
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a this is good, no welsh bashing for a change 8) well only a little bit lol, dont tar everyone with the same brush, there is good and bad everywhere, if the scottys want to go alone good luck, but dont come back if it all goes pete tong.
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As a Scot living in England, I'm not convinced independence is the way to go. Thing is, on one hand, they get a decent deal financially, but politically (and particularly in Europe) Scotland needs some element of flexibility to act in it's own interest; decisions made in Westminster don't always have Scotland's best interests taken into account.
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Hope it doesn't happen, could affect whisky prices..........
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'we wouldn't need our passports cos we'd fly over the top of you'
Oh no you, wouldn't - you'll be banned from UK airspace, so would have to go round Ireland too :)
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the reverse would be true then, redirecting all your flights to North America to avoid our airspace all the way up to Shetland and the Isle of Lewis. there's the massive air traffic control site at Prestwick too which handles flights for western europe to/from the Atlantic.
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To be serious, one thing I think the Scottish would miss is a voice in Europe. Currently they are part of a big economy (6th? biggest worldwide) with a population of 62 million, to a small economy with around 5 million people. The rest of the UK will still be a big player, but Scotland will be just another Slovakia.
Does anyone know - will an independent Scotland keep the pound, linked to the UK pound? Or will it float the Scottish pound or take the Euro?
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To be serious, one thing I think the Scottish would miss is a voice in Europe. Currently they are part of a big economy (6th? biggest worldwide) with a population of 62 million, to a small economy with around 5 million people. The rest of the UK will still be a big player, but Scotland will be just another Slovakia.
Does anyone know - will an independent Scotland keep the pound, linked to the UK pound? Or will it float the Scottish pound or take the Euro?
Indeed, the EU is the biggest single open market in the world. The EU may be in turmoil right now, but a total collapse of the EU is unthinkable.
Though I'm not aware of any polls of how Scotland views Europe, nor I am aware of Europe being a big issue with the Scottish electorate. I think it's taken for granted that Scotland wants to be part of the EU. There's not the EU issue in Scotland that there is in England.
This however gives us a problem, if we stay as part of the UK our access to the single biggest open market in the world, that happens to be on our door step could be under threat. I've said it before, I don't think the UK will leave the EU, I think it's posturing, playing to the audience, a good distraction from real issues, but such dangerous noise and posturing if not nipped in the bud at some point, well who knows where it could lead.
There are questions about an Independent Scotland's membership of the EU, but I think in reality that's about detail, not whether Scotland would/could be a member.
But it's clear, I think, if Scotland wants to guarantee it's access to Europe, well Independence is the better option.
Oh we'll take the pound thanks. It's not unusual for two states to share a currency, and it's certainly not the terrible miss-match that some, a la EURO debacle, would have you believe that it might be. That's nonsense.
In the longer term Scotland would be under pressure to join the EURO. But that can't happen until the EURO has been stabilised.
Creating out own currency could be problematic, our oil wealth could create a rather troublesome strong Scottish pound, just as for England if Scotland dropped the pound, that could create troublesome issues of currency weakness.
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Interesting. However my point was not whether Scotland or UK will leave the EU (as you say, neither will) but that Scotland will have a minor say around the negotiation tables due to its small economy and population, compared to the UK as a whole.
Agreed also about the pound. Ireland's punt was = GBP1 from independence until 1979, so you're right it's common.
Interesting point about oil reserves. I always thought that Thatcher sold most of it off to the oil companies, which is why we haven't done as well out of it as Norway. Also from what I've heard some of the fields will be kept by the UK - but I cannot remember the details.
Another bone of contention will be the current UK's debt, and how it will be split. I've no idea how that can be resolved, unless Scotland takes a share pro rata to population. I'm sure there's many opinions on this one :eek
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. Also from what I've heard some of the fields will be kept by the UK - but I cannot remember the details.
From what I read once I believe that parliament were going to insist on maritime borders (which extend the / line out into the North Sea, as opposed to the logical - line)
This meant that a lot of sites in the North Sea were part of England.
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If thats the case Chillum, the line where it leaves the border, if going straight out into the north sea will run a line directly to Egersand, thereby missing anything of significance to us. You english are awfy sneaky. Ye'll no git awiy wi it
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More like Bergen I reckon.
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As long as its no Stavangar
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irrespective of the mineral resources at stake, I think the north sea boundary should start with a line perpendicular to the coast at the border out to the territorial limit at 12 miles, then parallel to the lines of lattitude out to the "mid" point/international waters of the North Sea.
the Solway/Irish sea boundary could be interesting.
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irrespective of the mineral resources at stake, I think the north sea boundary should start with a line perpendicular to the coast at the border out to the territorial limit at 12 miles, then parallel to the lines of lattitude out to the "mid" point/international waters of the North Sea.
the Solway/Irish sea boundary could be interesting.
FEAR - Let's Have a War (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJAlIHsXcLY#)
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From what I read, every poll shows Scotts won't want to go (60:40 split), which is a real shame as I doubt we'll every get this close to getting rid of them for a long time. :rollin
Mind you it might be a happier story when it comes to Alex Salmond - if he wins he can enjoy his "Arc of Prosperity" without annoying us (at least till Scotland goes bust), and if he looses he'll probably go hind under a rock for a few decades :lol
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From what I read, every poll shows Scotts won't want to go (60:40 split), which is a real shame as I doubt we'll every get this close to getting rid of them for a long time. :rollin
Mind you it might be a happier story when it comes to Alex Salmond - if he wins he can enjoy his "Arc of Prosperity" without annoying us (at least till Scotland goes bust), and if he looses he'll probably go hind under a rock for a few decades :lol
parliament should let england have a vote so WE can be independent of scotland :evil
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WAR - Why Can't We Be Friends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5FfJ89rGPc#)
:lol
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'I spose cornwall will be next .'
Hope so - full of bloody Laaandaners anyway :lol
Bloody Emits!!!
as far as scotland concermed here SNP are looking at been a Nuclear missile free country & its involvement in NATO??
or I may have miss heard it on the radio
cant see how this would work as a) Faslane is a Major employer & without the boats up there what would the navy send up there? (good news for Devonport though)
b) would all the scotish regiments have to be moved to scotish bases?
c) would the RAF & Marines have to move out of the scottish bases?
errr think that could be a step to far
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Theres talk of sharing armed forces despite devolution.. Its not as if we are closing borders and moving the country..
Besides if you sent all the scots soldiers home who the hell would you send into wars first.. ;D
Scotland nueclear free is something they are pushing for.. Cant confirm the nato thing though..
Budgie
sent from somewhere beyond the rim.
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Ive heard that england is already training up elite sniffer dogs to stop iron-bru getting across the border!
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:thumbup
There is also talk of banning exports of Buckfast.
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as far as scotland concermed here SNP are looking at been a Nuclear missile free country & its involvement in NATO??
What the Yes campaign, and in particular the SNP have to very careful about, is what exactly this referendum is about. We are voting as to whether or not we want to be an independent nation.
The SNP needs to resolve what it's own preferred position post a possible yes vote is. They are in danger of allowing people to think that their policies will be post Independence Scotland's policies - that could easily lose them this referendum.
What they need to do is get in place a time table and frame work for a post 'yes' vote Scotland. It needs to be set up and agreed, and in turn the people of Scotland and indeed the rest of the UK (if they are interested) need to know how negotiations will work and how our constitution will be written and agreed.
Scotland will not be voting in 2014 on whether there will continue to be nuclear weapons on it's soil, or for that matter whether we will continue to be NATO partners or otherwise. What we will be voting for is whether or not we as a nation will decide such matters, or we will continue to allow another country to make such decisions for us.
The SNP needs to sort out it's own post yes independence manifesto and proposals in a timely matter, and get back to the real debate.
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But Buckfast comes from a sleepy Monastery in Devon so it is an export from England to Scotland. Yes, England actually produces something!
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thanks VNA for the explanation
I've said in the past that i dont understand politics ... or much of anything really tbh! and before i get jumped on saying that i should as it effects my life etc i have to admit i am happy in my own little bubble but do take the occasional foray out n stick my periscope out of it to see whats happening in the rest of the world!
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Exactly Alan. How will Scotland operate without its daily tipple?
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It's something that needs cleared up.
The No campaign will be only too happy to let the debate become a discussion of SNP policy, which is of course a seperate issue to the question of independence.
There would of course at some point after a YES vote be an election for a government (2015?). This would happen, I would assume, after basic negotiations with Westminster on issues such as debt and 'defence' issues etc etc and once a constitution has been drawn up. That's how I see it.
But I I'm not clear how that all works. And people need to know how it would all work. It's extremely important.
But of course the NO campaign don't want to address such issues - for obvious reasons - and would much rather focus on the SNP's post YES ideals.
The SNP needs to decide where it stands on policy, move on, let us know how it will work, and get back to campaigning on Independence.
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Well said VNA..
Budgie
sent from somewhere beyond the rim.
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of course it could all be just another blatent coalition lie to pacify the scots...it all might change after the next general election !
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i think cameron would want to see the back of scotland because the tories have only got one mp in the whole of scotland (iirc )so if you take all the labour scottish voters and make them non void to vote at the general elections if/once scotland does go its own way its gotta help make a bigger tory swing ;)
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exactly....
tbh I think baby faced cameroon is possibly more right wing than maggie was. Her creed was bash the unions...his is to make the working man pay for everything.Meanwhile the rich carry on in their same old never changing way of self indulgence and greed, almost mocking the rest of us. I wonder if his missus says " let them eat cake "...??
personally I think if the tories were to get a full majority , this country will be taken to the brink of civil war, the huge divide between classes which is widening now will become a sheer gulf...it will be like victorian times in terms of slums and poverty...nhs will almost disappear, benefits will crumble for everyone regardless of need,and public education become more of a farce than it is.It will be very dark times . :\
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Couldnt have expressed it better myself,Pitternator. Glad my Dad didnt live to see what this country has become. I have sons & grandaughters & have no optimism for their future. The politicians talk & talk but say nothing & meantime the country sinks into gloom & despondency. Difficult to define "class" these days but there has never been greater division between the haves & have nots. They seem determined to dismantle any kind of safety net for those in genuine need with their accusations of "benefit scroungers" and so on. Its only a small step to civil unrest when the poor say to the "smarmy fat cats" enough is enough. Have you noticed how they always try to find some "scapegoat" to take the blame for their abject failure to address the real causes of our difficulties? I always thought those who can ...DO and those who are congenitally incompetent SIT on the benches and bray like donkeys(with apologies to the 4 legged variety!)
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Having just read the previous three replies, I m thinking should I move to Scotland now while I still can?
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yes chris , just make sure your passports valid ;)
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Now that gives me a thought I could apply for a job in the new Scottish passport office, leads my mind onto what questions will I have to answer in he Scottish citizen test?
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Now that gives me a thought I could apply for a job in the new Scottish passport office, leads my mind onto what questions will I have to answer in he Scottish citizen test?
there will only be one question :- who is the king of scotland ? answer :- alex salmond ...correct you now have the right to wear a kilt :lol