BREXIT

[mtread]

Oh dear oh dear you are so blinkered by anything that is not on the left that you have completely missed it. The insult levied wasn't calling him a lefty, it was calling him "little" so quick to be triggered - is it cold in here - I think I have just seen a snowflake.

O yes, 5 times in one paragraph  . So, what have you got against little people, or are you using a random insult generator?
Seen a snowflake? Be careful, especially if you don't ride in the rain

And Dazza, you know I don't follow your dodgy links

[fazersharp]

Its just been announced that Dyson is the 3rd highest tax payer in the UK at £127.8M. Like I pointed out earlier he is still a UK tax payer.
What is strange is that remainers seem to rejoice if a company says they are moving and if that move is damaging then better it is in their eyes. And leavers are accused of cutting off their noses to spite their faces.
After a NO deal lets see those companies crawling back to the UK because at the moment the deal says that the UK CAN NOT set better/more competitive company tax environments than that of the EU. After a NO deal we will be free to create more competitive environments than the EU has.In or out these companies do not care about the man on the street, so when remainers cheer them when they announce they are moving they are kicking the leavers when they should be kicking the companies.       

[mtread]

Its just been announced that Dyson is the 3rd highest tax payer in the UK at £127.8M.

I think you mean 'was' the 3rd highest tax payers. Not when his HQ is in Singapore he won't be.
'Rejoice' also isn't the right word. You mean 'Despair' with a hint of 'I told you so'.
Also how many times do we have to say 'No Deal' just isn't going to happen. A majority of MPs (of all parties) are too sensible to let it happen.
Meanwhile Jacob Rees-Mogg asks the Queen to suspend Parliament if 'No Deal' is voted down. So what type of democracy is he in favour of then? Not Parliamentary democracy obviously. And we all know what happened to the last monarch who suspended parliament 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

Its just been announced that Dyson is the 3rd highest tax payer in the UK at £127.8M.

That is as an individual.

Like I pointed out earlier he is still a UK tax payer.

And if resident in the UK will continue to be so.  However, as a majority shareholder in Dyson, his tax bill in the UK will now be slashed as his company has moved to Singapore.

What is strange is that remainers seem to rejoice if a company says they are moving and if that move is damaging then better it is in their eyes.

Just because we are correct, does not mean to say we take any pleasure in job losses etc, after all we are just as likely to lose our jobs a result of BREXIT as anybody else.  Nor do I take any pleasure whatsoever in being poorer as a result of the BREXIT referendum – I can assure you!

After a NO deal we will be free to create more competitive environments than the EU has.

I think we would be better trying to get the great many companies who dodge their taxes to actually pay them, rather than drop the rates that so many don’t pay.  Of course the EU is already looking at legislation aimed at stopping companies from ducking their tax obligations.  Which of course is one of the reasons that the super rich like Jacob Rees-Mogg want out.

In or out these companies do not care about the man on the street

Some do, some don’t.  However, their legal obligation is to their shareholders.  They also exist to make a profit, and indeed can only survive and succeed in the long term if they turn a profit.  At the end of the day if there was a NO DEAL BREXIT (still a possibility, albeit an increasingly remote one) companies like Toyota, Honda, Nissan will leave the UK along with a host of other manufacturing companies.  The reason companies like Toyota, Honda and Nissan came to the UK was to avoid import quotas and tariffs.  They set up shop here so they could manufacture inside the EU single market.   
 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

[YamFazFan]

What is strange is that remainers seem to rejoice if a company says they are moving and if that move is damaging then better it is in their eyes.

When/if all their hope is lost and the UK leaves the EU (and it's still a BIG if IMHO) they'd happily lock the steering to dead ahead, jam the throttle wide open and set warp factor 10 for the centre of the sun as far as the economy is concerned.
 

[YamFazFan]

'Rejoice' also isn't the right word. You mean 'Despair' with a hint of 'I told you so'.

If/when the UK leaves The EU, do you hope the economy defies your predictions and succeeds, going from strength to strength?.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

[fazersharp]

The reason companies like Toyota, Honda and Nissan came to the UK was to avoid import quotas and tariffs.  They set up shop here so they could manufacture inside the EU single market.   
 

So why did they choose the UK over any other EU state in the first place.

[mtread]

Because of our very slack labour laws and destruction of the unions?

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

So why did they choose the UK over any other EU state in the first place.

The key thing for them was unrestricted single market access.  No more import restrictions and no more tariffs.  Other manufactures of course have chosen other EU countries.



I don’t know precisely why they choose the UK, but I certainly welcome it.  I do know we had skilled workers, and plenty of people in general looking for work.  I would guess there would be government incentives.  The stability of the pound would be attractive, and despite exporting much of the produce the strength of the pound, as a high proportion of the components are imported.  Further the guarantee of single union agreements was key.


What the Japanese did prove though without a doubt, was the problem with the old UK manufacturers was the management, not the workforce. 



But don’t think they are kidding when they say they will consider leaving if there is not a suitable BREXIT deal.  Leave they will.  And on top of the 10’s of thousands of jobs provided by these big manufacturers are 10’s of thousands of jobs in supporting industries.

What is strange is that remainers seem to rejoice if a company says they are moving and if that move is damaging then better it is in their eyes.

REMAINERS do not want to see these jobs go.  The BREXITEERS however don’t give a shit.  Read again the most optimistic of the very very few economists that think BREXIT is a good idea.  Professor Minford states quite clearly that in the event of a NO DEAL BREXIT wage inequality will increase and UK manufacturing will all but cease to exist.

What is strange is that remainers seem to rejoice if a company says they are moving and if that move is damaging then better it is in their eyes.

So again, it’s what you want.  The rest of us would like to keep our jobs and our wealth thanks.


Or as I am begining to feel, the BREXITEERS don't have a fucking clue what they want, but they sure as fuck know how to get it.

 

[fazersharp]

Because of our very slack labour laws and destruction of the unions?

So the reason these companies had come here is because of our slack labour laws and yet you site that after a brexit the labour laws will be slacker which will make the UK more attractive to companies, you seem to be using the same argument to cover everything just like labour has "spent" the reversing the cuts in capital gains tax 10 times over. 

[YamFazFan]

So why did they choose the UK over any other EU state in the first place.

The key thing for them was unrestricted single market access.  No more import restrictions and no more tariffs.  Other manufactures of course have chosen other EU countries.



I don’t know precisely why they choose the UK, but I certainly welcome it.  I do know we had skilled workers, and plenty of people in general looking for work.  I would guess there would be government incentives.  The stability of the pound would be attractive, and despite exporting much of the produce the strength of the pound, as a high proportion of the components are imported.  Further the guarantee of single union agreements was key.


What the Japanese did prove though without a doubt, was the problem with the old UK manufacturers was the management, not the workforce. 



But don’t think they are kidding when they say they will consider leaving if there is not a suitable BREXIT deal.  Leave they will.  And on top of the 10’s of thousands of jobs provided by these big manufacturers are 10’s of thousands of jobs in supporting industries.

What is strange is that remainers seem to rejoice if a company says they are moving and if that move is damaging then better it is in their eyes.

REMAINERS do not want to see these jobs go.  The BREXITEERS however don’t give a shit.  Read again the most optimistic of the very very few economists that think BREXIT is a good idea.  Professor Minford states quite clearly that in the event of a NO DEAL BREXIT wage inequality will increase and UK manufacturing will all but cease to exist.

What is strange is that remainers seem to rejoice if a company says they are moving and if that move is damaging then better it is in their eyes.

So again, it’s what you want.  The rest of us would like to keep our jobs and our wealth thanks.


Or as I am begining to feel, the BREXITEERS don't have a fucking clue what they want, but they sure as fuck know how to get it.

If you're unhappy with the result of the referendum, which obviously you are and that's your right, the only person/people to blame are those who gave us it in the first place.


We were offered a free and fair democratic vote. We took part, we voted. Your argument against the Leave voters is an argument against democracy.


If your case was as strong as you believe Remain would have walked it but they didn't did they.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

So the reason these companies had come here is because of our slack labour laws and yet you site that after a brexit the labour laws will be slacker which will make the UK more attractive to companies,

Why don’t we re-introduce slavery?  That might attack a few investors.  I guess it’s a matter of how low you BREXITEERS want to go Fazersharp.


Thought the truth is as I explained, they came here for a multitude of reasons.  But if they do not maintain quota free and tarriff free access to the market, including continued free import of parts and labour they will pack up and manufactuer elsewhere.

 

[fazersharp]

So the reason these companies had come here is because of our slack labour laws and yet you site that after a brexit the labour laws will be slacker which will make the UK more attractive to companies,

Why don’t we re-introduce slavery?  That might attack a few investors.  I guess it’s a matter of how low you BREXITEERS want to go Fazersharp.

Thought the truth is as I explained, they came here for a multitude of reasons.  But if they do not maintain quota free and tarriff free access to the market, including continued free import of parts and labour they will pack up and manufactuer elsewhere.

The slack labour laws were never my argument - they were yours and I am pointing out that on one hand you (Mtread) say companies  have come here because of slack laws and then on the other you say that laws will be slacker after a brexit. Mtread was pointing out the companies leaving and I asked why they came in the first place and he said because of slack labour laws so if you maintain that labour laws will be slacker after brexit then proof that they will not be is that the companies are choosing to leave that first came here because of slack laws.     

[VNA - BMW Wank]

The slack labour laws were never my argument - they were yours and I am pointing out that on one hand you

Not my arguement.  I'm a trade unionist.

[fazersharp]

But if they do not maintain quota free and tarriff free access to the market, including continued free import of parts and labour they will pack up and manufactuer elsewhere.

By free import of labour you mean CHEAP labour from poor countries who to them a low wage is a rich man's wage. That part of the EU is totally dysfunctional - in their quest to ever expand they have welcomed countries who are not financially ready.   

[YamFazFan]

So the reason these companies had come here is because of our slack labour laws and yet you site that after a brexit the labour laws will be slacker which will make the UK more attractive to companies,

Why don’t we re-introduce slavery?  That might attack a few investors.  I guess it’s a matter of how low you BREXITEERS want to go Fazersharp.

fazersharp didn't suggest, mention or advocate that at all obviously.


He was highlighting a flaw in mtreads argument.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

If your case was as strong as you believe Remain would have walked it but they didn't did they.

Indeed, why did people ignore the facts and vote to LEAVE.  Beat the hell out of me.



This thread has been as frustrating as it has been interesting.  It’s run it’s course now.  Yourself, YamFazFan, fazershap and all the other BREXITEER foccers here, not one of you can come up with a good reason to leave the EU.  Not one reason to change the path we have been on for over 40 years.


Aside for reasons, none of you have come up with a real and substantial argument for leaving.  Nothing.


Which of course, as I have already said, what the fuck is wrong with the UK, or more to the point, what the fuck is wrong with the English. 



I had a long conversation with a friend in Wales about this.  We came up with the following;


The 20 year press project to undermine the EU.  All the lies, like the ban on bent bananas.....


People are dis-enfranchised.  It’s the low wage economy.  The millions working for people like Tim Martin, on the minimum wage, zero hour contracts – the full time workers claiming benefits.  Millions of people now being taken a loan of after decades neo liberal politics (ie Tory rule)


Then you combine that with the lack of trust and respect in our politicians – which can clearly be seen on this forum.  But why is that we don’t trust politicians?


Tony Blair.  Or should I say Tony Bliar.  Tony took us into wars on the basis of lies.  He sent our kids to fight and die in foreign lands on the back of his religious global capitalist dream – or whatever you want to call it.  But the key here is a PM who lied to parliament, and lied to the country in order to fight his insane wars.  Tony Blair is a cunt.



The global financial crash.  Remember Gordon Brown (the worst chancellor in British history and another cunt) – no more boom and bust.  Gordon adored Fred Goodwin and friends.  The people paid kings ransoms for their expertise – we had to pay em that money or they would leave the country we were told – then when these people crashed our whole banking system and threatened our whole economy – well what did Blair, Brown and their cunty friends do – they bailed them out, then asked us all to write the cheque.


The MP’s expenses scandal.


There’s more stuff to go into the mix.  But those are basics.


dis-enfranchised taken to war on a lie   the financial crash with the rich bailed out and us left to foot the bill.


I think that’s why people aren’t listening.  They don't care about facts beciase thye've been told too many lies.  They have had enougth of the experts as Gove summed up.  I’m not sure people are actually even listening to Jacob, Boris or Nigel.  They just wanna kick that ball.  People don’t care if it hurts.  Millions have nothing to lose anyway.  Why should they give a fuck?


That’s kinda how I see it.


So BREXIT here we come - thanks England.

 

[fazersharp]

The slack labour laws were never my argument - they were yours and I am pointing out that on one hand you

Not my arguement.  I'm a trade unionist.

Yes they were in your arguments against brexit

[VNA - BMW Wank]

By free import of labour you mean CHEAP labour from poor countries who to them a low wage is a rich man's wage.

No in the case of Nissan, Toyota etc, it's the ability to move between plants and manufactuerers (suppliers).  This is generally at an engineering level.  It's also the ability to recruit engineers from the EU as a whole.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Yes they were in your arguments against brexit

No it's not an arguement I would make.  I am all for trade unions and labour rights.

[fazersharp]

what the fuck is wrong with the English. 
I had a long conversation with a friend in Wales about this.  We came up with the following;
 It’s the low wage economy.  The millions working for people like Tim Martin, on the minimum wage,

Remember Gordon Brown (the worst chancellor in British history and another cunt) – no more boom and bust.  Gordon adored Fred Goodwin and friends.  The people paid kings ransoms for their expertise –
 

what the fuck is wrong with the English.

Racist remark

It’s the low wage economy.

Brought about by the import of cheap labour from eastern EU states. which you welcome

Gordon adored Fred Goodwin and friends.  The people paid kings ransoms for their expertise –

Brexiters have been telling you leavers not to believe the "experts" for ages, funny how you pick and choose which ones you want to belive.

[fazersharp]

Yes they were in your arguments against brexit

No it's not an arguement I would make.  I am all for trade unions and labour rights.

That's why is said they were in your arguments AGAINST brexit ------ one too many of the yellow poison me thinks, stick another log on your croft farm open fire and another ice in your glass.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

That's why is said they were in your arguments AGAINST brexit ------ one too many of the yellow poison me thinks, stick another log on your croft farm open fire and another ice in your glass.

Stove actually.  Yes getting cold, more logs on!

Yes, yes, yes, silly me, of course.  The Tories will cancel numerous Labour laws, such as the working time directive etc etc, if we leave the EU.