Starting - electrical problem

[peteski]

I haven't been using the Fazer as much as maybe I should and she's getting a bit neglected. Had the bike from new and it's never let me down for the first eight year or so London commuting etc. However it's now starting to play up. Two year ago a blocked pilot jet caused a misfire that took me ages to diagnose. Now there's a new issue.


It wont start on the starter. It's almost like the battery is flat, you press the starter and you hear the starter relay tick-tick-ticking, and the motor turns over a tiny bit but just not enough to start. Battery is charged and seems fine. I've also connected my car battery but no difference. The starter relay has been taken off, tested confirmed to be working. Electrics is not really my bag so I'm struggling to understand the haines wiring diagram, which seems to be wrong for my model! One strange thing that I think is not correct is that I've got 12v on both the red/white and blue/white starter relay wires. Because of my lack of skills I was thinking of having a stab in the dark and swapping the starting circuit cutoff relay and seeing if that fixes it. Any advice would be appriciated.

[His Dudeness]

could be that the starter motor itself is getting stuck. as a simple test try pressing the starter button and keep the button pressed in and give the starter motor a few knocks with a hammer and see if it frees up. if it does then you'll have to take the motor out and give it a clean and you might get away with that

[peteski]

could be that the starter motor itself is getting stuck. as a simple test try pressing the starter button and keep the button pressed in and give the starter motor a few knocks with a hammer and see if it frees up. if it does then you'll have to take the motor out and give it a clean and you might get away with that

Wouldn't have thought so as I've disconnected the starter motor from the starter relay and the relay is still making the rattle-snake ticking when when the starter button is pressed. It's def something electrical, relay or wiring. In the back of my mined I'm thinking it's the System 3 alarm/immobiliser. The alarm disarms when you press the fob, you turn the ign on and you get all the right noises, fuel pump ticking, starter circuit  cut off relay tick pause then another tick, like if should. However the alarm re-arms itself even with the ign on which it should not. This means the alarm is not detecting ign on.

[peteski]

The fault ended up being the System 3 alarm. The internal battery has leaked acid and after a wiggle of the board and wires everything is now working again. This is the second board I've fitted into this thing ( a couple of years ago was the last), looks like there'll now be a third. I wish I could just do away with the thing all together! Anyway, good news.

[bikemad62]

Fyi the rattle snake sound was probably your petrol pump working. Mine makes that noise when i forget to switch off my immobiliser which is also a datatool.

[darrsi]

The fuel pump rattles when the ignition key is turned on, not when the starter button is pressed!

[Dead Eye]

Just to chip in, the rattle is the fuel pump pressurising the system so that there is a supply of fuel without air pockets in the line (mostly). The longer the ignition has been off the more the rattle when you switch the ignition back on. Leaving the bike overnight and you get just a few rattles, leave it for a week and it sounds like a pissed off snake...

[peteski]

It wasn't the fuel pump, that did its ticking when ign was turned on for around 3 seconds is per usual. It's a slightly different sound and this was the ign relay. You could hold it in you hand and felt it switching when you hit the starter. The faulty immobiliser is intermiteraly cutting the relay (immobilising) the starter, many times a second. It'll be a dry joint on the board or and knackard internal battery cells that's causing this. I used the bike the other night and it started fine, even if it crops up again before I change the board, I can always push-start the bike.

[Major Rant]

That rattle (the one that's not the fuel pump) may be what's known as the "Machine Gun Noise"...
 
It happens when attempting to start the bike with an "almost discharged"  or "partly shagged" battery and it happens like this:
 
at rest ... 12V on the battery- no load.
Stage 1: Hit the start button. 12V on the relay coil. Relay closes. 100amps rushes out of the battery
Stage 2: battery voltage starts to drop (its supposed to go down to about 9V when its "cranking").
Stage 3 : Battery voltage drops below "hold voltage" for the relay (about 6V) ... Relay opens, 100Amps stops flowing.
Stage 4: Battery voltage recovers above 9V , relay closes again. 100 amps flows again.
Repeat from stage 2 about 10X per second.
 
Its a common symptom of a 10V battery (one that has 5 good cells and 1 shagged cell). a 10V battery will probably start the bike when fully charged on a nice warm day but will cause the "Machine Gun Noise" on a cold day or after the battery has rested for a few hours.

[peteski]

True, it did this when my last battery died. This was my first thought but it wasn't the case this time around.