Date: 29-11-21  Time: 05:24 am

Author Topic: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?  (Read 3067 times)

MFD

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Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« on: 22 March 2018, 02:29:22 pm »
So I finally got round to taking the sprocket cover off to check the nut today, and I've not seen a sprocket like this before.


It looks like some kind of plastic or resin was moulded around the sprocket, going out so far that the remaining parts touch the chain side plates. What weirdness have I stumbled onto?

I've also got the old 9mm thick nut, which I've read should be upgraded to a 12mm thick one, but there's only ~1mm of thread exposed on  the end of the output shaft. Do I need to change more than just the nut and locktab?

Thanks

bandit

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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #1 on: 22 March 2018, 03:24:31 pm »
That's the original sprocket design or what's left of it the orange nylon is shock/noise damping (see here)


 https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/fazerowners/worn-front-sprocket-t30268.html


I would replace sprocket & fit the new 12mm nut & locking washer,


http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer/98-99/picture/front_sprocket_retaining_nut_kit_oem/


If you won't the same type sprocket with the damping,


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZS600-S-Fazer-98-03-Ognibene-15T-Silent-Front-Sprocket-STD-Size/192224937034?hash=item2cc17fc44a:g:eZwAAOSwaWhZzr6B




fazersharp

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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #2 on: 22 March 2018, 05:57:33 pm »
Hears mine




And the 9mm nut

« Last Edit: 22 March 2018, 05:59:16 pm by fazersharp »
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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #3 on: 22 March 2018, 06:00:03 pm »
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

MFD

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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #4 on: 24 March 2018, 04:15:17 pm »
Thanks for the replies, that clears that mystery up.

bandit - Do you suggest replacing the sprocket just because the nylon has broken up? I see no reason not to do it at the same time, but if I change the front sprocket I'll be tempted to do the chain at the same time, then the rear sprocket too (both worn, but not enough that I'd normally replace them yet)...

As for nylon vs. plain steel sprocket, does the nylon ring make much of a difference? I'm guessing it only has an impact when switching between acceleration and overrun since the teeth would keep the chain loaded sideways the rest of the time?

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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #5 on: 24 March 2018, 05:04:43 pm »
I don't think the nylon being broken is a reason to replace but its odd that yours should of completely fallen off. Don't know if the plastic even makes any sound difference     
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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #6 on: 24 March 2018, 09:17:02 pm »
A drawing I did ages ago comparing the 9mm nut to the 12mm nut and their relationship to the gearbox shaft.



Original sprocket on drawing is 8.5mm thick.
« Last Edit: 26 March 2018, 08:49:38 pm by limax2 »

Disorderlypunk

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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #7 on: 24 March 2018, 11:39:57 pm »
is it just me that see's a  better compromise between the two ?
would a 12mm nut with a 3mm gap be even better?
ok that extra 1mm wont be on a thread but would reduce torsional stress/flex
yes i already know the reduction would be minimal but as tesco says 'every little helps'




great drawing by the way - great to see stuff like that when its not coming from a design aspect but more a 'what is there' aspect
« Last Edit: 24 March 2018, 11:41:16 pm by Disorderlypunk »

darrsi

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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #8 on: 25 March 2018, 12:26:35 am »
is it just me that see's a  better compromise between the two ?
would a 12mm nut with a 3mm gap be even better?
ok that extra 1mm wont be on a thread but would reduce torsional stress/flex
yes i already know the reduction would be minimal but as tesco says 'every little helps'




great drawing by the way - great to see stuff like that when its not coming from a design aspect but more a 'what is there' aspect


With threadlock it's just a case of "every little helps".
Not a definite cure, but most certainly an advantage to prevent a possible discrepancy.


It doesn't affect every bike, but for peace of mind it's worth doing.
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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #9 on: 25 March 2018, 08:21:00 am »
Thanks for the replies, that clears that mystery up.

bandit - Do you suggest replacing the sprocket just because the nylon has broken up? I see no reason not to do it at the same time, but if I change the front sprocket I'll be tempted to do the chain at the same time, then the rear sprocket too (both worn, but not enough that I'd normally replace them yet)...

As for nylon vs. plain steel sprocket, does the nylon ring make much of a difference? I'm guessing it only has an impact when switching between acceleration and overrun since the teeth would keep the chain loaded sideways the rest of the time?




You can just replace the front sprocket on it's own no reason to do chain/rear sprocket at the same time, I would as you are going to fit a new locking washer/nut job done,but you could leave the old one on just make sure there are no nylon bits that are loose.


As for nylon or not nylon I don't know, have heard that with is quieter but looking at your pick of your sprocket you tell me. :) :)

MFD

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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #10 on: 25 March 2018, 06:17:57 pm »
Eh, ordered a new plain sprocket for the sake of £12, the nylon can't be doing much damping on mine anyway.

Stay tuned for it somehow rattling like a set of tracks.

limax2

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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #11 on: 26 March 2018, 09:03:34 pm »
I have just received a JT front sprocket from wemoto priced at £7.19 . Postage was £3.30 but that covered several other items as well.
I was surprised to find it had the sound damping stuff on it, although softer than on a genuine Yamaha sprocket. More like fairly hard rubber than the hard plastic feel of the original sprocket.
Also not a complete circle on one side and it appears to be bonded on rather than moulded through holes as the original.


« Last Edit: 26 March 2018, 09:07:30 pm by limax2 »

bandit

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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #12 on: 26 March 2018, 09:16:21 pm »
Very interested to hear your opinion on this sprocket limax2, whether it is as good as the original one noise wise. :)

Disorderlypunk

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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #13 on: 26 March 2018, 09:56:41 pm »
fitting the locking washer is gonna be a bugger with that rubber sitting in the way


fazersharp

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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #14 on: 26 March 2018, 09:58:32 pm »
Very interested to hear your opinion on this sprocket limax2, whether it is as good as the original one noise wise. :)
I wonder how long the rubber would last until it has worn down a little and not doing anything - like the plastic one.
Has anyone had any experience in any other make of bike that has this sort of sprocket fitted, the 1st Fazer 600s also had a noise dampening plate on the inside of the sprocket cover - could it be that for whatever reason they deemed the FZS noisy in that area.
« Last Edit: 26 March 2018, 09:59:31 pm by fazersharp »
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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #15 on: 26 March 2018, 10:01:23 pm »
fitting the locking washer is gonna be a bugger with that rubber sitting in the way


If you look at the rubber ring and compare it with my picture its about the same size so the unbent washer should fit
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Disorderlypunk

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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #16 on: 26 March 2018, 10:39:15 pm »
ooh it fitting wont be a problem - but you have to be able to get a screwdriver in to bend up the tabs - original looks like its tapered at about 45degs
the new one looks much steeper

fazersharp

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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #17 on: 26 March 2018, 10:57:10 pm »
ooh it fitting wont be a problem - but you have to be able to get a screwdriver in to bend up the tabs - original looks like its tapered at about 45degs
the new one looks much steeper
Ah I see. It may actually make it easier to get good leverage on that rubber sticking up
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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #18 on: 26 March 2018, 11:14:21 pm »
Very interested to hear your opinion on this sprocket limax2, whether it is as good as the original one noise wise. :)
I wonder how long the rubber would last until it has worn down a little and not doing anything - like the plastic one.
Has anyone had any experience in any other make of bike that has this sort of sprocket fitted, the 1st Fazer 600s also had a noise dampening plate on the inside of the sprocket cover - could it be that for whatever reason they deemed the FZS noisy in that area.


That is right Sharpie the later Fazers did not have that metal sound damping plate inside the sprocket cover the mounting posts are the for it and drilled but just not threaded for the mounting bolts


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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #19 on: 26 March 2018, 11:34:34 pm »
Very interested to hear your opinion on this sprocket limax2, whether it is as good as the original one noise wise. :)
I can’t say I’ve ever heard the chain while riding so yes it will be very interesting and a surprise if I notice any difference. I will be keeping an eye on that rubber stuff to see if it stays in place!

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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #20 on: 26 March 2018, 11:40:30 pm »
ooh it fitting wont be a problem - but you have to be able to get a screwdriver in to bend up the tabs - original looks like its tapered at about 45degs
the new one looks much steeper
I wonder if that is why there are two gaps in the rubber on one side of the sprocket. I can’t think of any other reason for the gaps.

Disorderlypunk

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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #21 on: 27 March 2018, 12:00:47 am »
the gaps are only there to locate the two locking bolts that is used on a different type of sprocket retention system - luck may be on your side and the gaps line up with your nut edges but luck of the draw is never incorporated into design
(except on the mrs punks scratchword scratchcard, if it gave us a S or a T at the end we would have been rolling in £300,000 that was designed bad luck)

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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #22 on: 27 March 2018, 05:00:58 pm »
ooh it fitting wont be a problem - but you have to be able to get a screwdriver in to bend up the tabs - original looks like its tapered at about 45degs
the new one looks much steeper
I wonder if that is why there are two gaps in the rubber on one side of the sprocket. I can’t think of any other reason for the gaps.


It probably doesn't matter which way round the sprocket goes on but pics I have seen show the full circle of rubber faces you on the nut side & fitting the locking washer & bending the tabs to lock the nut is no problem as a lot of Japanese bikes use the washer design & fit shock type sprockets as std Bandits 600cc/1200cc for instance.  :)
« Last Edit: 27 March 2018, 05:08:55 pm by bandit »

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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #23 on: 01 May 2019, 08:58:56 pm »
Gonna resurrect this topic as I have just brought a new set and have the same front and also wondered which way around I should fit it.After looking closely at it if you see my pictures you will notice that one side has counter sunk holes and the other side does not. When the bend- tab washer sits on the nut, if your fitting for a 530 pitch 15t front sprocket ( this one ) is done via two counter sunk machine screws then you would fit the sprocket with the full dough nut ring facing you as that is the side with the counter sunk holes because as you can see the tab washer sits over them.
Then( I think ) if your bike fitting is via two bolts then you would fit with the two dough nut halves facing you as there is then enough room for a bolt head and get a socket over it. But the tab washer will not fit - or at least our tab washers for our bikes, any way why would you need one with two bolts holding it.

So for our use I think that is does not matter which way it fits.
Also as you can see the tab is half bent ready the get something under it so although it is very close to the rubber you can still get under it.
What do every one else think. 
EDIT ---You know what - I don't it is actually counter sunk after all
« Last Edit: 01 May 2019, 09:01:50 pm by fazersharp »
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Re: Checked under my sprocket cover today... what is this?
« Reply #24 on: 01 May 2019, 09:51:00 pm »
Cut out is usually to the outside.