Date: 11-08-22  Time: 13:28 pm

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Messages - MFD

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FZS600 Fazer / Re: FZS600 fork variations
« on: 06 December 2020, 10:58:54 pm »
The bottom yoke is slightly twisted, its fairly obvious now its off the bike.

FZS600 Fazer / Re: FZS600 fork variations
« on: 06 December 2020, 01:15:16 pm »
Good call with the Fowlers parts list - just what I needed!

Going by the part numbers, the early/late forks used different springs, spacers and dampers along with the caps, so now I know which parts need to stay together :)

I had wondered if the yokes were perhaps damaged in the crash. The stanchion kept binding in the lower yoke and took a lot of effort to slide when I put the test forks in... hopefully minimal as I spent yesterday welding up and grinding the steering stop back to shape after the crash forced the stops on the yoke through(!) them.

When rebuilding the forks earlier in the year I went with 15w oil, definitely improved things over the original without adjusting, shimming or otherwise meddling with the spring preload.

FZS600 Fazer / FZS600 fork variations
« on: 05 December 2020, 06:27:46 pm »

Does anyone have full parts diagrams for the different forks used by the FZS600 over the years, or can shed some light on exactly what changed and what is interchangable between them?

I bought some cheap "2002" forks to test my bike after crashing it and severely bending the forks a month or so ago. Unlike the ones that came on my (2003) bike, they have a simple cap at the top rather than preload adjusters, but everything I've found suggests preload adjusters were added in the 2000 model. They've also got an excessive gap between the ends where the front wheel fits, so the axle draws them together by a few millimeters when tightened (the stanchions are straight) - is this normal?


For Sale & Wanted / WANTED: 2003 FZS 600 front forks
« on: 15 November 2020, 02:29:24 pm »
I'm after some forks to rebuild my FZS 600 after losing it on some mud and crashing a few weeks ago.

I just want to put them on for a few test runs before committing to repairing the bike properly, so they can be pitted and leaky, so long as they're straight. Honestly pitted and leaky would be best since I'll rebuild them with new fork tubes if the frame still rides ok.


FZS600 Fazer / Re: Frame measurement after a crash
« on: 08 November 2020, 02:28:15 pm »
Finally spent some more time on it today...

Dye penetrant testing of the welds around the headstock hasn't revealed any obvious cracking.

I took the crash bars off, and they don't line up with the holes in the frame, but I don't think they fitted *perfectly* when they were new over 2 years ago, and I can still get them into position by hand using the bolts as guide pins. The upper hole on both bars is too high and the bottom front hole on the left hand side is too far forward, possibly suggesting the bars have been flattened out slightly by the crash... or they were always that wonky.

If anyone else has an FZS600 with Heed crash bars they don't mind taking off and doing a few measurements for me to compare against I'd be very grateful...

FZS600 Fazer / Re: Frame measurement after a crash
« on: 31 October 2020, 03:09:15 pm »
Thanks for your inputs so far. I like the bike and want to see it back on the road rather than broken for parts, if the frame is okay the only expensive bit will be new forks anyway; I think I can save the body parts.

The paint around the headstock tube welds is flaking off... as it was when I bought the bike. At the time I attributed it to rust, but I wonder if it had a crash before I bought it, especially considering one of the forks was (slightly) bent when I rebuilt them earlier in the year. Bodywork was immaculate at the time, so a crash seemed unlikely.

I've strung a line from the shaft that runs through the yokes and headstock bearings to a crossmember with a series of holes drilled through it under the seat. To the best of my ability to measure, at that crossmember and the two above the engine, the string is perfectly centered in the frame. I'm not too confident in my measurement where it passed over the fuel tank fixing hole at the front, which appeared to be ~2mm to the right, I'm not sure if that hole necessarily *should* be centered anyway.

I've not been able to find any good articles on frame geometry, but to my thinking, I've got these possible ways the frame could be distorted by a crash:

Lateral twisting
Lateral twisting of the frame, skewing the angle the steering will rotate around to the sides, moving the wheels out of line and also altering the tyres' contact patches. Will probably make it want to wander or prefer one direction, like when the rear wheel is misaligned.

Bending to the left/right
Sideways bending of the frame, without the above latteral twisting, moving the wheels out of line but not affecting the tyres' contact patches. I don't *think* this would impact the handling much, assuming the rear wheel alignment is adjusted to compensate?

Bending up/down
Bending up/down, or the frame being squashed shorter, moving the front wheel rearwards by reducing the steering rake angle. I think this would actually give it slightly sharper/sportier turning, but otherwise not impact the handling?

Obviously any distortion to the point that a weld is damaged is dangerous. I will do DPI testing of critical/stressed welds (i.e. the ones at the headstock tube).

I bought a digital inclinometer, intending to use it to rule out lateral twisting of the frame between the swingarm mounting uprights and the centerline of the yoke shaft, but I haven't come up with a way to get a reliable reading off of the latter yet.

Does my above thinking seem correct?

Thanks all

FZS600 Fazer / Frame measurement after a crash
« on: 30 October 2020, 09:39:37 pm »
Evening all,

I had an accident earlier this week - came around a left hander at (I guess) 40-50mph during some heavy rain and hit a layer of mud on the road, both wheels immediately let go and the bike dropped onto the left hand side and started to slide, then something upset it (I'm guessing it hit a cats eye), and it flipped over onto the right hand side, throwing me off to slide along the right hand gutter while the bike shot off ahead, bounced off the dirt verge and came to a halt back in the left hand lane.

Luckily there was noone coming the other way at that moment, so after a few seconds sliding down the road on my back I got back up without any serious injuries (just a few bruises seemingly), but the bike didn't get off so well. The left hand fork tube is *very* bent, the fairing got bent around sideways and several mounting tabs broken off, the instrument mounting bracket bent, left hand pillion footpeg and silencer bent into the frame until it popped off, both wing mirrors disintegrated (I only found the remains of one) and various other minor scuffs/breaks.

Right after the accident someone in a Tesco's delivery van stopped to help me up and make sure I was fine, then a builder with an empty trailer stopped and offered to take me home. People *can* be nice sometimes!

So here I am with a very broken Fazer in the garage now...

I've removed most of the bodywork, fuel tank, instruments, etc so I can get a good look at the frame and hopefully confirm all the geometry is still ok before starting repairs.

Can anyone advise particular things to check/measure on the frame, correct dimensions/tolerances or methods? Any help greatly appreciated as I've never done this before.

FZS600 Fazer / Re: Infrequent cutting out and magical recovery
« on: 04 August 2019, 03:57:28 pm »
I cut out the immobiliser and all of its tendrils today, then went out for an hour or so without any issues. So hopefully thats the end of this saga!

FZS600 Fazer / Re: Infrequent cutting out and magical recovery
« on: 03 August 2019, 03:45:05 pm »
I stuffed a bit of wire into the SS- wire at the ignition connector and went out for a couple more test rides.

Bike stubbornly refused to die on the first run, then started acting up on the second run. Confirmed ground connection at the ignition switch connector and not ECU when dead, furthermore, I measured 0.5v between the battery positive and switched ECU ground, as well as the ignition connector with ignition off, confirming the path from that connector to the immobiliser is sound.

Now I'm just debating if its worth the effort of getting some security torx bits to take the immobiliser apart in search of failed solder joints, blown caps, etc... or just ripping the thing out.

EDIT: After it started acting up, I shorted the ECU switched ground to permanent ground, no more drama for the rest of the way home.

FZS600 Fazer / Re: Infrequent cutting out and magical recovery
« on: 02 August 2019, 03:14:00 pm »
You're definitely on the money Dudeness - I went out for a test run, with a bit of wire wedged in the SS ground on the ECU so I could probe it, died within 200yds, no ground. Engine starts up right away if I short the pin to ground, and then dies again when I remove the short.

After a while it decided to work again, and then died for a while after I dropped the seat back down. Wiggling the wiring around the rear of the tail doesn't seem to have any effect. The immobiliser still makes all its usual beeps and things when it won't start - so its power, ground and switched ignition are still good.

Considering it cut out when I placed the seat down, and it wasn't moving, I'm inclined to believe the fault may be in the immobiliser rather than the ignition switch - some kind of transistor-y thing breaking down, as it allows a small amount of current to go to ground when the bike is off. Any better ideas before I make a mess of the immobiliser harness to bypass it... and still have the problem?

FZS600 Fazer / Re: Infrequent cutting out and magical recovery
« on: 02 August 2019, 02:17:01 pm »
Ruled a few of my possibilities out:

Break between kill switch and ignition coils
Starter cut-out relay (and diodes) are further back on frame than coils, break inside the main harness that cuts the coils off without also severing the starter relay further back is highly unlikely.

Break in wire from ignition to diode box
Fault in diode box

I tried starting the engine in gear with the clutch held in this morning, engine span, but didn't fire, which would require the ground returning from the clutch lever to the starter cut-out relay via the same wire used to ground the wire from SS- via the ignition switch, if I've understood the diagram properly.

Fault in crank sensor
Wiring to crank sensor looks good, and resistance is in spec. I'm assuming this is a hardy component and not prone to developing intermittent faults.

Leaving me with:

- Break in any ECU wires (power, grounds and crank sensor really)
- Break in wire from SS- to ignition
- Fault in immobiliser/alarm
- Fault in ECU

FZS600 Fazer / Re: Infrequent cutting out and magical recovery
« on: 02 August 2019, 01:23:20 pm »
I made a simplified version of the Haynes wiring diagram, only showing things relevant for the ignition/starter/fuel pump/etc (can't seem to upload it right now)... and now I think I get it:

Spark requires ECU ground via alarm SS pins, which go to ignition switch, then to diode box, and to ground via side stand switch (when up) or neutral switch (when in neutral).

Starter requires starter cut-off relay to be grounded via neutral switch (in neutral), or clutch switch, then side stand switch (side stand up AND clutch lever pulled in).

I've confirmed the switched ground at the ECU is only grounded when the ignition is switched on AND the immobiliser is disarmed.

So I think that leaves me with the following possibilities:

- Break between kill switch and ignition coils
- Break in any ECU wires
- Break in wire from SS- to ignition
- Break in wire from ignition to diode box
- Fault in immobiliser/alarm
- Fault in ECU
- Fault in crank sensor
- Fault in diode box?!

The diagram also shows a wire from the neutral switch to the ECU, no idea what function that serves.

FZS600 Fazer / Re: Infrequent cutting out and magical recovery
« on: 02 August 2019, 10:35:05 am »
Right, stripped the tail down, propped the tank up and took side panels off.

I haven't found any (obviously) damaged wiring yet, but there is plenty of it disappearing where I can't see it. The immobiliser is very neatly installed - its been fully spliced and wrapped into the harness, which carries on past the ECU, round the back and down the other side to it. I probably couldn't remove it without having to cut the harness apart at the ECU and remaking some of the wires.

FZS600 Fazer / Re: Infrequent cutting out and magical recovery
« on: 02 August 2019, 09:25:24 am »
That escalated quickly...

Being the smart man that I am, I didn't bother putting the wiring diagram or multimeter in my bag today, after all, its only an infrequent fault, it probably won't manifest again for a while.

I made it perhaps 2-3 miles from home before it died, about one bend after overtaking a long line of cars. Did the usual playing around trying to restart, then pushed it up the hill and over the busy road to a garage to ask to borrow their multimeter... naturally the bike resumed working at this point, so I turned it around and headed back home.

Momentary cut out almost right away when turning off the road, then clear for perhaps another mile, until it did another momentary stall, then died completely. Repeat the wait-a-while-and-then-it-works dance, rode it off the curb of the pavement I'd parked on, no issue with the jolt from the drop, but then it packed in again all of about 50 yards later.

Pushed it to a pub, and waited a while again, finally decided to start up and made it the rest of the way home at 30-40 without issues.

While it was dead I jiggled the side stand, ignition and kill switches, with no effect. I couldn't see a spark between an extension bar I held in a plug cap and the cylinder head, also it backfired a couple of times after recovering, so pretty its on the ignition side now.

FZS600 Fazer / Re: Infrequent cutting out and magical recovery
« on: 02 August 2019, 08:20:43 am »
There's a Datatool immobiliser (maybe also an alarm?) fitted. Paperwork says it was fitted by an installer. I don't know whether it just plugs into the "Alarm" connector on the wiring diagram (seems pretty easy to bypass if so...), or splices into the harness in a dozen places... I'll probably find out this weekend.

After the bike cut out, the starter still turned, the engine just had no interest in firing, so either fuel or spark was gone from all 4 cylinders. I tried the starter when in neutral, and probably in gear with the clutch held in too.

FZS600 Fazer / Re: Infrequent cutting out and magical recovery
« on: 02 August 2019, 12:08:47 am »
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to try and get time to poke at all the wiring/connectors this weekend.

I've just been staring at the wiring diagram, but after half an hour the mess of diodes where the side stand and clutch switches meet the fuel pump and starter cut off relays still makes no sense. If the side stand or ignition switches went open circuit, taking out the coils, would I still be able to crank the starter?

FZS600 Fazer / Re: Infrequent cutting out and magical recovery
« on: 30 July 2019, 08:32:50 pm »
The fuel pump (I think) usually makes a few clicking noises when I first turn it on in the morning, has for as long as I've owned it.

There's normally no hesitation under sustained full power either, but I just remembered a few weeks ago the bike momentarily lost all power during an overtake.

FZS600 Fazer / Infrequent cutting out and magical recovery
« on: 30 July 2019, 07:08:59 pm »
Hello all,

After 18 months of (almost) flawless service, my FZS600 has decided to start impersonating my old Suzuki.

On the way home from work on Wednesday last week, while going up a hill, the engine just cut out with no warning, wasn't even trying to fire. After pulling over onto the pavement and turning it off/on a couple of times, it still wouldn't restart. After a couple of minutes of me taking my gear off I gave it another try, and it immediately fired on the first spin.

Fast forward to tonight, and it packed in not too far from home, same as before. Rode it down probably from 70ish to 20ish in gear, no life from the engine at all. Pushed it on a bit, still wouldn't start, pushed it on a bit more, still wouldn't start... until I was in sight of home.

There was no smell of fuel when cranking either time, and it didn't start with an almighty backfire like other times I've flooded in the past, so I'm inclined to believe its a fuel issue. Both times the fuel pump was silent for all the starting attempts, so I don't think it temporarily ran dry or was struggling to prime or anything like that.

Is there anything near the carbs that can shut off the fuel supply to all 4 cylinders, or am I barking up the wrong tree? Any other likely suspects?


FZS600 Fazer / Re: Broken speedo drive and worn wheel bearings
« on: 27 November 2018, 02:50:08 pm »
Thanks for the link to the parts manual, very useful!

Picked up some bearings today, seals and new rotor should be arriving at a dealer tomorrow. Then just to see if the tyre fitter will foot the bill...

FZS600 Fazer / Broken speedo drive and worn wheel bearings
« on: 26 November 2018, 07:17:55 pm »
Evening all,

For the past couple of weeks I've had an intermittent squeak from the front of my 2003 FZS600, I thought it was just the calipers binding again as they've not had a proper strip down in my ownership. It got bad enough this morning that I could hear it when riding along at low-ish speeds, rather than just when in traffic as previously, then around ~40 on the way home this evening.

Took the front pads off tonight... still something rubbing on the wheel.

Took the wheel off... the lugs on the inner sleeve of the speedo drive were broken off and the whole thing was rather dry and smelling a bit burnt. I don't think it was lined up properly when I had the tyre replaced a few weeks ago, so the lugs broke off, but jammed in place so as to keep it turning, and put sufficient force on it to cook the grease away.


Also both front wheel bearings have got a bit of a notch in them despite looking new, unsure if the sideways load from the wedged speedo drive could've caused that, or just normal wear.

Does anyone have the numbers for the right hand front wheel bearing and seal (couldn't read that side)? I'm going to drop by a bearing shop tomorrow to see if they can get me a replacement set.

I'm going to see if I can get the broken bits pegged back on, but failing that, does anyone happen to have a speedo drive assembly (or even just the inner sleeve) lying around?


EDIT: Took a picture of the thing

FZS600 Fazer / Re: What have you done to your FZS600 bike today
« on: 07 October 2018, 05:10:17 pm »
Today I battled my way into the timing cover to check the valve clearances, all in spec... except ONE SODDING VALVE.

Debating leaving it since its <0.01mm too tight, but out of spec is out of spec...

FZS600 Fazer / Re: What have you done to your FZS600 bike today
« on: 07 October 2018, 11:06:00 am »
What d'ya call that then, a Kim Kardashian seat?

I call it "I'm a special fragile snowflake and the standard seat isn't supportive enough", but I like your name too :D

FZS600 Fazer / Re: What have you done to your FZS600 bike today
« on: 06 October 2018, 05:59:36 pm »
Cleaned the sludge out from under the chain guard to stop it dripping back down and around the wheel, oiled the chain, then finally got round to making a proper top layer of foam for my seat:

Up next, a cover, to replace the bin bags I've been sitting on since February or so!

FZS600 Fazer / Re: What have you done to your FZS600 bike today
« on: 09 August 2018, 08:01:15 pm »
I've been getting achey hands on the Fazer which have gotten worse over time and I keep catching myself leaning on them, so on some advice I got a set of bar risers to try out:

Bars are currently spaced 20mm away, the kit includes extra 5mm and 10mm spacers to move them even further if necessary, but this is already pushing the brake hose a bit, so I'll have to get a longer one made if I stick with them. Rest of the cables have plenty of slack, and the bar mounts being angled means it doesn't hit the fairing at full lock :)

That gap is bothering me though... I'll have to get a deeper clamp top and skim it to fit!

FZS600 Fazer / Re: Chaaaaiiiiin
« on: 26 July 2018, 11:10:34 pm »
Just dug the tool out and this is the kind I used. Its rather comical to watch some of the tools spinning around off-center as you wind the bolt in.

Having spent the past couple of hours looking at chain riveters, the KM500 tool (and some of its knockoffs) seem to come highly recommended, and I like the look of how they work. I've read in several places that the VX chains require use of the super duper newer KM500R tool, which has a (somehow) slightly different pin, I'm not sure how much to trust that though.

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