Possible clutch problem

[Yam12]

Hi everyone, Niall in Ireland here I have a 2001fazer 600s which runs fine but when on the move at 5 to 6k revs it revs up instead of putting power to the wheels. I dropped the bike 2 months ago at walking speed and bent the clutch lever but it's been running fine up to now. The day before this current issue I went up a very steep and broken road to get to air bnb and may have put her under pressure. Any ideas you guys may have would be great as I can't find anything in Haynes or on the net. Happy biking!!

[unfazed]

Slipping clutch

[Yam12]

Thanks I've got some great info on these pages going to try tighten the lower part of cable and if that doesn't do it I'm going for new lever, cable , clutch gasket, friction plates and try using the old springs. She does go into gear very easily atm so I'm hoping nothing is too badly chewed up anywhere!!

[darrsi]

Need to start by properly adjusting the clutch, at both ends, and see if that solves it. Haynes manual will tell you how.
If that doesn't then the next step would be a new clutch cable, especially if you don't know how old it is or what mileage it's done.

[darrsi]

Thanks I've got some great info on these pages going to try tighten the lower part of cable and if that doesn't do it I'm going for new lever, cable , clutch gasket, friction plates and try using the old springs. She does go into gear very easily atm so I'm hoping nothing is too badly chewed up anywhere!!

I just changed both the steel & friction plates, new OEM cable and a new clutch pressure plate which was fractured.


Bit of friendly advice, if you end up getting new plates do not over tighten the spring bolts. In fact I would go as far as suggesting replacing them as they are cheap enough to buy.


But start with the adjustments first, there's a good chance that will fix things.

[b1k3rdude]

Bo not over tighten the spring bolts.

I second this, only use the correct torque setting for these bolts, manual says 8nm which is not a lot

- https://archive.org/details/printermanual-yamaha-fazer-fzs600-service-manual-1998/page/n3/mode/2up?q=clutch&view=theater

And I would go so far as to add a small dab of locktight on the threads, someone will correct me if Im wrong.

[darrsi]

Bo not over tighten the spring bolts.

I second this, only use the correct torque setting for these bolts, manual says 8nm which is not a lot

- https://archive.org/details/printermanual-yamaha-fazer-fzs600-service-manual-1998/page/n3/mode/2up?q=clutch&view=theater

And I would go so far as to add a small dab of locktight on the threads, someone will correct me if Im wrong.

I would not advise that at all to be honest.
One of my bolt heads snapped as I think due to heat they just weaken over time, a bit like header bolts. When I say snapped, it was very soft, and I was using a torque wrench at the time.
But if that bolt was Loctited in that would've become a far more serious problem.
After a lot of research I found that many people removed their snapped bolts using a variety of instruments without drilling.
Took me about 20 minutes of perseverance and a small Jewellers screwdriver to coax it out, once I realised that when I touched the bolt it moved. The bolts don't bottom out at all so the remaining thread just sits there once the head sheers off.


Once the bolts are tightened up, the springs are very compressed so even at the low torque rating of 8Nm there's a lot of spring pressure holding the bolts in place, so they're not going anywhere. But that's why i would recommend getting new bolts while you have everything apart, seeing as the price is not going to break the bank.


And for a pleasant change Fowlers are the cheapest place to buy them as well. #10 on the drawing (you need 6 of them), and if you're buying springs too stick with the OEM ones, which are #9. Don't be tempted with cheaper versions that are also Heavy Duty springs as they've been tried and tested before and not been found to be necessary.
BEWARE, ANYTHING OUT OF STOCK HAS TO COME FROM ABROAD, AND CAN TAKE 2 WEEKS TO TURN UP!


https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/4165948/fzs600sp-fazer-5dma-2000-070-a/clutch

[Yam12]

Hi  I tightened up to specs top and bottom of the cable as per Haynes and it seems quite stiff at the lever. Would you guys take it for a spin and see if clutch still slipping, or grease the cable or replace the cable first before. Maybe just needs a bit of driving to loosen it up a bit?

[BBROWN1664]

Stick a new cable on though it depends how stiff it really is

[darrsi]

Hi  I tightened up to specs top and bottom of the cable as per Haynes and it seems quite stiff at the lever. Would you guys take it for a spin and see if clutch still slipping, or grease the cable or replace the cable first before. Maybe just needs a bit of driving to loosen it up a bit?

Put bike on centre stand, steering hard right, then turn the adjuster screw so that you can drop oil into the cable housing at the lever end, and keep pumping the lever so that the oil gets sucked into the cable.
But if that doesn't help in a few minutes then as suggested a new cable is your next best option.

[Yam12]

Quick question how do you open that tab on the inside of the cover at end of the cable that has been squeezed to death by yamaha or whoever changed last cable  - can't get anything behind it nor a pliers onto it. Thanks 

[darrsi]

Quick question how do you open that tab on the inside of the cover at end of the cable that has been squeezed to death by yamaha or whoever changed last cable  - can't get anything behind it nor a pliers onto it. Thanks 

Small flat bladed screwdriver. It's very soft metal so go easy on it.


When you have that cover off, grease the bearings in the actuator. You can do this by spraying grease from the front of the cover, behind where the locking nut is.and if you pump the actuator with your fingers at the same time it will  suck the grease inside. If it's not been done before it can make changing gear a tad smoother.

[Yam12]

Hi I've tightened original cable and no gears when trying to get going. Changed cable and lever neutral light goes out and wheel spins in 1st gear on centre stand but no go on the ground. There's also a lot of resistance at the lever when correctly adjusted. I've come around to the other side and when trying to open clutch pressure plate bolts, the pressure plate turns while I'm trying to open them. Nothing else in there turns so I can't see what to block to stop it from turning and there are no grooves on it to catch with some tool or other. The investigation continues...!!

[darrsi]

Hi I've tightened original cable and no gears when trying to get going. Changed cable and lever neutral light goes out and wheel spins in 1st gear on centre stand but no go on the ground. There's also a lot of resistance at the lever when correctly adjusted. I've come around to the other side and when trying to open clutch pressure plate bolts, the pressure plate turns while I'm trying to open them. Nothing else in there turns so I can't see what to block to stop it from turning and there are no grooves on it to catch with some tool or other. The investigation continues...!!

Bike needs to be in gear to stop it spinning.
Don't move the bike upright with the cover off or you'll lose your oil on the floor.

[darrsi]

Hi I've tightened original cable and no gears when trying to get going. Changed cable and lever neutral light goes out and wheel spins in 1st gear on centre stand but no go on the ground. There's also a lot of resistance at the lever when correctly adjusted. I've come around to the other side and when trying to open clutch pressure plate bolts, the pressure plate turns while I'm trying to open them. Nothing else in there turns so I can't see what to block to stop it from turning and there are no grooves on it to catch with some tool or other. The investigation continues...!!

What are you actually doing now?


Can you run through exactly how you adjusted the cable, at both ends please?


You can get minor movement from the rear wheel when it's off the floor, that's an oil thing, but most likely related to the clutch adjustment.

[Yam12]

I adjusted at the bottom with top at loosest setting tightened up then back quarter turn. Back up to new lever and cable tightened to Haynes spec and same resistance as old lever and cable.
Used two spanners to open clutch plate in the end - some bluing present on platesand a burnish smell but all was pristine inside otherwise. Oh there was round piece of metal attached to one of the plates which was warped( coat hanger type thickness item). Clutch springs and plate set from fowlers is next step I think??

[darrsi]

Seems like plates will be the logical next move.



***** These instructions are for AFTER MARKET friction plates which have TWO types in the kit. OEM plate kits have THREE types. SEE BELOW *****


Few bits of advice:
Buy new spring bolts, they're not expensive.
Buy OEM springs, NOT heavy duty ones.
Buy clutch cover gasket
Soak the new friction pads overnight in engine oil.


PUT THE BIKE IN GEAR BEFORE TAKING THE CLUTCH COVER OFF


*** You can lean the bike onto the side stand, and work on the clutch without needing to drain the oil, as the oil will collect over to the left side of the bike. But don't attempt to move or put the bike upright with the clutch cover off or you will lose your oil all over the floor. ***


One of your new friction plates will have a narrower pad area, with the pads towards the outside.
The order of replacing is:
Normal size friction plate
Steel plate
Judder spring
Narrower friction plate (spring fits inside of this plate)
Steel plate
Then friction/steel/friction/etc.


The steel plates have a tiny curved edge on one side.
On refitting them aim the curved side inwards towards the engine.


Before tightening the spring bolts, it's worth undoing the locking nut in the sprocket cover and unscrewing the adjuster screw. This is so the pressure plate has no resistance at all against it when the bolts are tightened.


Use a smaller torque wrench to torque the spring bolts, because they only need 8Nm but should be all tightened equally.
DO NOT use copper grease or thread lock on the spring bolts.




This is the actual kit i bought - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195171835065?hash=item2d7125dcb9:g:cocAAOSwG7VicP6z&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA8EUByu9fqhSB357U2uLqRaX9U4WAzomr%2FAVI8JCsG5LjSC5BNfsmu3jxGzAkX2Sy86lSOOiJ%2FFIn%2BADbWRmZFMDpEQK5sYsnxnJ%2FtdX4itS3cgxcQ7oBx0YKACoE6C%2FSAWxqslV45h9Q3k2973v1nEhIqFCJGGUOrCY%2FAaArooK6LLBsw85rFugh9GExSVBVWsU%2FimLUrZJhdyw6fifgltJ6EeT7JZ6JKeeIcm19B3nvBFycpWp9zdCwZPH%2B6Vf%2BVWfe2bBgvleSoQem%2BvDjV3qa8XTzm3IlYlgtZpY4yF6pkA1KvO1f3o2zE%2B0eK5eaYQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8rm-6HrYA

[Yam12]

Great stuff however if someone was foolish enough to not put bike in gear before removing outer cover and then plates would that be OK or should all go back together carefully, put in gear and restrip cover ,springs,bolts and plates?

[darrsi]

Great stuff however if someone was foolish enough to not put bike in gear before removing outer cover and then plates would that be OK or should all go back together carefully, put in gear and restrip cover ,springs,bolts and plates?

It's just to control the whole clutch from spinning when tightening the spring bolts. It makes life a bit easier.
You'll be able to work your way round it as the torque level is so low. 8Nm using a torque wrench feels like you're just nipping the bolts up, but the torque setting will prevent you from shearing the head off a bolt, which happened to me because the torque wrench I used was simply too large. The lowest setting was 10Nm but it just didn't click and the bolt head just sheared off, albeit way too easily. This is why i suggest getting new bolts because they obviously get very hot and must weaken over the years. I had a similar thing happen when undoing an exhaust header bolt. These too get very hot and I couldn't believe how soft the metal had become. The bolts are only about £2 each so not gonna break the bank.

[Yam12]

Ah I see I'll let ye know how I get on i would say I'll be waiting a bit for parts to get to me here in ireland. Thanks for all your help this forum is excellent for newbies like myself.

[darrsi]

***** OEM friction pad kits *****

I was looking at the clutch diagram yesterday and suddenly noticed a friction plate that had a different number and part number to the two i previously mentioned in the above post.

In the diagram #4 is the one there is the most of, #11 is the narrow one i describe that fits around the judder spring (#12) but then i noticed #7 which doesn't apply to the aftermarket kit that i bought. #5 are the steel plates.
As i have no experience with this friction pad kit you will need to look at a manual, or instructions with the kit itself. Or just use the diagram below i suppose.

But after a looking about i don't even know if you can buy OEM friction plates as a kit, i can't find them anywhere, only in singles which would be an expensive way of doing things, so not sure how often OEM plates get used if you're changing them yourself?

[Yam12]

Wemoto does TRK branded sets of steel and friction plates 90ish pounds to get both sets. I have taken old plates out in exact order and put adjustable cable tie around them to keep them in order. I'll use a calipers to make sure each plate that goes back is the same shape and size as the one it's replacing. Anyone have experience of TRK stuff?

[darrsi]

Wemoto does TRK branded sets of steel and friction plates 90ish pounds to get both sets. I have taken old plates out in exact order and put adjustable cable tie around them to keep them in order. I'll use a calipers to make sure each plate that goes back is the same shape and size as the one it's replacing. Anyone have experience of TRK stuff?

My guess is that there'll be only 2 types of friction plates, only the narrow one mentioned will be different.


Just for the record, i have tried my steel plates both ways, curved side outwards first, then recently i flipped them all the same way for curved side facing inwards. I was double checking the positioning of the judder spring so had it all apart anyway.
Curved side facing inwards performs better in my opinion.

[Yam12]

Hi I've replaced plates,clutch springs, torqued everything up to spec. Adjusted new cable - now lever feels lovely. But still no gears.  Any thoughts on what to try next? I can get neutral light but not the usual clunk into first but I can get the light to go off by pushing down and the bike conked too with the sidestand out so it thinks it's in first!!

[unfazed]

What do you mean by no gears? Will it not go into gear or does the engine stop when you put it into gear with the side stand down?