Front discs and disc bolts

[Chris]

Well hello all!

Front discs need replaced as one of them is a bit warped. While replacing them I was wondering about replacing the disc bolts too as they're notoriously bad for rounding off seeing as they're made of cheese.

The discs I was thinking to go for are the Armstrong wavy ones: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350974802188 I know a few of the guys on here are running these discs, any thoughts on them, do they last ok, not rust up etc

The disc bolts I was looking at are these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400470035998?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 at £46.95 you'd hope they would be a bit stronger than the standard bolts.

Any thoughts or suggestions welcome.

Thanks,

chris

P.S. Forgot to mention I'll be using the discs with sbs ceramic pads and new hel braided lines.

[Chris]

Got my pair for 250 delivered, ill check from where later if u want, can't fault em by the way

That'd be great if you could thanks 

Chris

[Tefer]

Hi,


I got these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZS600-Fazer-1998-2003-Ferodo-Motorcycle-Track-Front-Brake-Disc-/261336371105


Not fitted yet but that should be happening next week £108 a disc and Ferodo are a well known company. Unfortunately i cannot comment on the rust part yet.

[darrsi]

You sure it's warped, and not a caliper issue?

[Fuzzy]

Hi,


I got these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZS600-Fazer-1998-2003-Ferodo-Motorcycle-Track-Front-Brake-Disc-/261336371105


Not fitted yet but that should be happening next week £108 a disc and Ferodo are a well known company. Unfortunately i cannot comment on the rust part yet.

Let us know what they're like, would be interested to see if they would be a good alternative to EBC which gets mixed reviews.

[Fazerider]

Let us know what they're like, would be interested to see if they would be a good alternative to EBC which gets mixed reviews.

As someone who gave EBC discs a mixed review, I can now report that the problems of grabbiness and the habit of them to seize to the pads if parked overnight when damp have been resolved by changing to organic pads. The brakes are now beautifully progressive and the bike no longer feels like someone's superglued it to the ground when I come to heave it off the centrestand in the morning.

[Fuzzy]

That's good to know, glad you sorted them out. Were you using EBC HH pads before? If so, they should really ensure their pads are compatible with their discs.

I have recently swapped out ABE discs for an Oem pair in good nick that I had in reserve. ABE discs seemed grabbier/"rougher" feel through the lever - but in a good way - felt like the brakes were slightly stronger than standard, although in reality that might not be true. However, there was some vibration under braking, probably due to warping although I could not detect any visually. If I had a track bike I'd be happy to keep them & would recommend them if it were not for the vibes. The pair of ABEs cost me £180 last year. ABE are capable of making decent discs, they supplied Simon Pavey with custom discs for the Dakar last year but I still preferred the originals in the end. If in doubt, go with Oem.

[Fazerider]

Yes, EBC were very insistent that the full warranty only applies if you use their pads and they supplied HH pads with the discs. I nearly wrote to them after the first wet journey because the so-called stainless rotors developed visible rust on the surface, but generally I was happy with them so couldn't face the hassle. It's clear that whatever was causing the rust was coming from the pads, the rotors now stay nice and shiny.
EBC could do themselves a favour by supplying organics as standard.


The only downside of them I can think of now is that the gold anodised inner part, so pretty when new, is a pain to get brake dust off.
Black would be much easier to look after.


Chris, I hope you get on with your Armstrongs; they were one I'd considered, but decided I prefer the plain round look to the wavy one.

[Chris]

That's great, thanks Fizzy.

I'll stick with the Armstrong wavy discs as I like the look plus the ferrodo ones haven't really been tested but please do let us know how you get on with them when you've tried them 

@Darrsi, Pretty sure it's the disc, pistons are all moving freely in calipers although the pistons are starting to look a little messy. I've cleaned them up as best I can while they are still in the calipers but will give them a good going over before I put it back together. I will be replacing the caliper seals when I have it all apart to redo the lines.

Anyone any thoughts on the Ti bolts in the first post?

Chris

[Fuzzy]

I'm sure they'd do the job nicely but personally I find the price a bit too much to stomach! I went with the standard Yam bolts in the end.

[darrsi]

3 sets of discs, numerous amounts of pads, hand grinding of disc surfaces several times, generally being focced off time and time again, copious amounts of advice on here(much more now thanks to me)........new/older forks......new/heavier fork oil, more pads..........next person to speak to me is unlikely to survive...........mate suggests brake lines.


THE last option.........SORTED.


Try talk to me about brake judder, after i've shaken you about a bit trying to describe my woes, i'll calm down and apologise and put you down!


DO NOT immediately presume disc issues, over time i learnt all is not what you think, and unfortunately it's a very expensive area to try your luck with!!!

[alan sherman]

I replaced my disc bolts with Titanium ones from tasty nuts or whatever they are called.

They are expensive, but so are the OEM ones.  They aren't made of cheese, they don't rust.

I had to get a new rear wheel when and OEM bolt set would not come out!  Titanium and aluminium alloy can cold fuse, so make sue to use a good coating of a non-permanent threadlock (loctite or similar.)

Mine have been on for 7 year or so.  After the disc bolts you start wondering about replacing the caliper bolts too but that is a lot of money......!

[Chris]

Yes Darrsi,

I know all about your juddering troubles and I do value your opinion. As I said I'll be replacing the original hoses with hel braided lines while I've got it all apart. I may do all the work without replacing the discs and see how it goes but will see what happens...

Yeah, the bolts are expensive but I just don't trust the oem ones! 

Chris

[Fazerider]

Have the discs been changed before? If not, the original threadlock may well have bonded the bolts in too firmly for them to be loosened unless you warm the hub up first.
Provided you get them out without mishap there's no risk in re-using the bolts, my bike is on its fourth set of front discs and the original bolts are still doing the job ok.

[darrsi]

Yes Darrsi,

I know all about your juddering troubles and I do value your opinion. As I said I'll be replacing the original hoses with hel braided lines while I've got it all apart. I may do all the work without replacing the discs and see how it goes but will see what happens...

Yeah, the bolts are expensive but I just don't trust the oem ones! 

Chris

You never know, there is always a very small chance it could be a brake line problem?
I only changed them because there was nothing else to change, and if i didn't know any better now it would still be the last thing on my list to check!

[Chris]

Yeah, it's the original rubber lines so they're due a change anyway.

I had the discs off this time last year to have the wheels powder coated and the back bolts were all a pain although the fronts came out ok, I'm not sure I want the risk of them rounding off too...

Chris

[darrsi]

Yeah, it's the original rubber lines so they're due a change anyway.

I had the discs off this time last year to have the wheels powder coated and the back bolts were all a pain although the fronts came out ok, I'm not sure I want the risk of them rounding off too...

Chris

Yeah it's because the front discs are floating, whereas the rear isn't so the heat from the brakes transfers to the hub and welds the bolts to the wheel.
I've had to change the rear wheel before when the only bolt that i could move snapped off inside.


My lines were braided that had the fault but if you have original rubber lines then there's even more chance it could cause a problem as they bulge when they age (no jokes please) giving the sensation of pulsing/juddering or indeed a warped disc feeling.   

[His Dudeness]

You could get a dial indicator and remove the calipers and spin the wheel. The dial indicator will show if the disc is warped

[Chris]

I'll do some basic testing like using the front paddock stand and spin the wheel but I'll still be replacing it all sooner rather than later anyway.

Chris

[darrsi]

I'll do some basic testing like using the front paddock stand and spin the wheel but I'll still be replacing it all sooner rather than later anyway.

Chris

Just do things one at a time, it's always worth sourcing the problem anyway in case you ever have similar issues again in the future.
I've known people before to buy new parts and fit them all at once, and it's fixed their problem but they never actually knew what it was causing it, which is not really informative at all.

[Fazerider]

I'll do some basic testing like using the front paddock stand and spin the wheel but I'll still be replacing it all sooner rather than later anyway.

Chris

Just do things one at a time, it's always worth sourcing the problem anyway in case you ever have similar issues again in the future.
I've known people before to buy new parts and fit them all at once, and it's fixed their problem but they never actually knew what it was causing it, which is not really informative at all.

Spinning the wheel with or without a dial gauge won't indicate a warped disc, just a bent one. Put a straight edge across the disc to see if it's warped (i.e dish-shaped).
If a disc has warped then do everything at once. Chances are it's a sticky caliper piston responsible, in which case you need to clean the pistons and replace the seals to reduce the risk of it happening to the new one. Since you'll then have the joy of bleeding it anyway, it would make sense to change the lines at the same time as it's something you're planning to do.

[darrsi]

I'll do some basic testing like using the front paddock stand and spin the wheel but I'll still be replacing it all sooner rather than later anyway.

Chris

Just do things one at a time, it's always worth sourcing the problem anyway in case you ever have similar issues again in the future.
I've known people before to buy new parts and fit them all at once, and it's fixed their problem but they never actually knew what it was causing it, which is not really informative at all.

Spinning the wheel with or without a dial gauge won't indicate a warped disc, just a bent one. Put a straight edge across the disc to see if it's warped (i.e dish-shaped).
If a disc has warped then do everything at once. Chances are it's a sticky caliper piston responsible, in which case you need to clean the pistons and replace the seals to reduce the risk of it happening to the new one. Since you'll then have the joy of bleeding it anyway, it would make sense to change the lines at the same time as it's something you're planning to do.

"...If a disc has warped..."
 
That's a different story if you've definitely sourced the problem, from experience it's not always that easy to tell though is it?
If you are certain that's the cause then go for it by all means.

[darrsi]

Correct me if i'm wrong Chris but i would've thought your calipers were in good shape from previous posts if i remember correctly, although the fact that you are surrounded by sea air could cause you trouble i'd imagine?

[Chris]

Darssi, My rear caliper is like new as I completely stripped it cleaned and put back together with new seals etc last winter. But my fronts have only ever just been cleaned out since I got the bike.

I'm pretty sure the pistons are all moving ok but I'm going to be changing the brake lines so while I have them off then I'm going to be replacing the piston seals and polishing up the pistons. After I've put that back together and tried it out then I'll see if there is still a problem, if there is I'll be changing the discs. 

Chris

[Chris]

Yeah, think I'm just being paranoid about the bolts but still something I'll do sometime..

Chris