Braking

[joebloggs]

I only use the fronts myself, no matter the weather or road surface, at speed the rear always lock's with the fronts on and my finger tips are more sensitive than a size 10 boot.

Let the debate begin 

[noggythenog]

Ive voted front only because i think you are relating to coming to a halt instantly rather than creeping at a junction or waiting at a roundabout in which case that is what i use my back brake for.........i wasnt taught to use the back brake, not even for the emergency stop as they told me youll be in too much of a hurry to start complex thinking front and back.


Back brake was taught for slow speed maneouvering only.



I think officially the back brake is applied briefly to load the front end and give more braking power on the front.


Allot of the old school guys seem used to dabbing the rear mid corner to assist a turn but my foot never hovers over the back brake to do that as i always have my toes on the pegs when committing to a corner.....plus my legs are too cramped to hover over it.

[the cueball]

I use all the brakes.... that's what they are there for. 


although sometimes, I'll just use the front, sometimes just the rear, sometimes all of them at the same time.


it really depends on the bike and the situation... but I've clicked front and rear anyway... I actually think I use my rear brake more than the fronts... a lot of filtering does that I guess...


here is the rear pad from my bike! (at the bottom...  )





got my money's worth there... 

[His Dudeness]

I use both. Mostly front and a bit of rear for normal stopping and mostly rear for low speed stopping. I was taught 70-30 front to rear. The way I see it even if the front brakes have 90% of the bike's stopping power if you don't use the rear you're down 10% braking power so use them. For carrying a pillion too if you only use the front I've found a lot of headbutting goes on whereas using both keeps the bike more stable and stops the headbutting

[joebloggs]

I remember my 1st moped, I never used the front brake, no CBT then so I just carried on braking like I had on my pushbike, fell off a lot lol

Agree with Noggu re not being easy to reach the rear brake when the balls of your feet are on the pegs, considered a thumb brake but to expensive and I still dont believe I'd use it.

As for passengers I found two ways of limiting head buts. Firstly get them to hold themselves against the forces by bracing using the fuel tank and secondly riding so bloody fast they too concentrate on the road ahead 

[fazersharp]

On one set rule for me either sometimes just front or just back or both or sometimes to stop myself rolling back on a slight incline I have my foot on the floor and let the foot rest roll back onto my boots shin shield and hold it there, so yes sometimes its my feet. 

[Hedgetrimmer]

Front only most of the time, in good conditions.


Rear:
On poor surfaces.
In the wet, allowing more braking time in the first place.
Steep downhill.
Very occasionally mid-corner, but try to avoid the need by entering the corner at the correct speed which means scrubbing sufficient speed first with the fronts.
Control at slow speeds, traffic etc.


Occasionally neither, if there's a good hedge to do the work 

[Frosties]

On one set rule for me either sometimes just front or just back or both or sometimes to stop myself rolling back on a slight incline I have my foot on the floor and let the foot rest roll back onto my boots shin shield and hold it there, so yes sometimes its my feet.

Summed up nicely - all depends on what I'm doing, filtering, hauling down from high speed or as Noggy the git said

 

Allot of the old school guys seem used to dabbing the rear mid corner to assist a turn but my foot never hovers over the back brake to do that as i always have my toes on the pegs when committing to a corner.....plus my legs are too cramped to hover over it.

.....because it works so feck off with the old 

[joebloggs]

On one set rule for me either sometimes just front or just back or both or sometimes to stop myself rolling back on a slight incline I have my foot on the floor and let the foot rest roll back onto my boots shin shield and hold it there, so yes sometimes its my feet.

Summed up nicely - all depends on what I'm doing, filtering, hauling down from high speed or as Noggy the git said

 

Allot of the old school guys seem used to dabbing the rear mid corner to assist a turn but my foot never hovers over the back brake to do that as i always have my toes on the pegs when committing to a corner.....plus my legs are too cramped to hover over it.

.....because it works so feck off with the old 

I don't get how stamping on the rear brake mid turn is supposed to help the bike turn, or is this to get the rear end to step out speedway style 

[Nightfury]

Here is an interesting theory:

Under 'normal breaking' first apply the rear brake gently, this will transfer weight forward increasing the available grip of the front tyre. Then apply the front brake for the main braking phase. Then easing off of the front and applying the rear again to level the bike before entering a corner.

I was always taught the 70/30 ratio thing, and remember backing off the rear brake adjuster on my H100 before the test to stop the rear locking on the emergency stop!

[slappy]

Front only most of the time, rear only at slow speed . Don't think I have ever used both together for years, modern brakes are vastly superior compared to the bikes I had in the 70s and 80s.

[joebloggs]

Here is an interesting theory:

Under 'normal breaking' first apply the rear brake gently, this will transfer weight forward increasing the available grip of the front tyre. Then apply the front brake for the main braking phase. Then easing off of the front and applying the rear again to level the bike before entering a corner.

I thought using the rear makes the back squat actually removing weight from the front

[joebloggs]

Front only most of the time, rear only at slow speed . Don't think I have ever used both together for years, modern brakes are vastly superior compared to the bikes I had in the 70s and 80s.

I'll 2nd you on some of the brakes fitted to bikes back then.

Had a Z750 twin, only bike I ever had that needed both brakes to slow it down, I mean slow not stop. Bloody thing was dangerous, ask the focin twat in the cavalier with a 750 twin shaped dent in his rear wheel arch when he pulled out in front of me.

Focin stopped me though lol

[slappy]

I wrote off a Suzuki GT380  in similiar scenario, twat pulled out in front off me in a mark2 Cortina, I hit front wing and went over the bonnet.  I was reminded of the accident everytime  I pulled my leather jeans on for two years as one knee had red paint on where I had scraped it off the bonnet.
The RD250 I had before that the front brake did not work in the wet at all, I think it was made of cast iron and was foccing lethal,  I do miss the good old days

[Frosties]

On one set rule for me either sometimes just front or just back or both or sometimes to stop myself rolling back on a slight incline I have my foot on the floor and let the foot rest roll back onto my boots shin shield and hold it there, so yes sometimes its my feet.

Summed up nicely - all depends on what I'm doing, filtering, hauling down from high speed or as Noggy the git said

 

Allot of the old school guys seem used to dabbing the rear mid corner to assist a turn but my foot never hovers over the back brake to do that as i always have my toes on the pegs when committing to a corner.....plus my legs are too cramped to hover over it.

.....because it works so feck off with the old 

I don't get how stamping on the rear brake mid turn is supposed to help the bike turn, or is this to get the rear end to step out speedway style 

It's not stamping Joe just a gentle use and certainly not to get the rear out GP style. To an extent Noggy is partly right with the "old" bit. Have always used a bit of rear in corners to "tie the rear down" - if the surface is bumpy then when the rear has bumped off the surface, the slight rear braking slows the rear rotation speed allowing more grip (rather than a faster rotation) when it returns to road contact. I also use it to tighten the line due to the front loading a bit and the speed reducing a bit giving you a bit more turn in.

Naturally too much rear braking could give you a high side or end up with you laying the bike down.

[joebloggs]

On one set rule for me either sometimes just front or just back or both or sometimes to stop myself rolling back on a slight incline I have my foot on the floor and let the foot rest roll back onto my boots shin shield and hold it there, so yes sometimes its my feet.

Summed up nicely - all depends on what I'm doing, filtering, hauling down from high speed or as Noggy the git said

 

Allot of the old school guys seem used to dabbing the rear mid corner to assist a turn but my foot never hovers over the back brake to do that as i always have my toes on the pegs when committing to a corner.....plus my legs are too cramped to hover over it.

.....because it works so feck off with the old 

I don't get how stamping on the rear brake mid turn is supposed to help the bike turn, or is this to get the rear end to step out speedway style 

It's not stamping Joe just a gentle use and certainly not to get the rear out GP style. To an extent Noggy is partly right with the "old" bit. Have always used a bit of rear in corners to "tie the rear down" - if the surface is bumpy then when the rear has bumped off the surface, the slight rear braking slows the rear rotation speed allowing more grip (rather than a faster rotation) when it returns to road contact. I also use it to tighten the line due to the front loading a bit and the speed reducing a bit giving you a bit more turn in.

Naturally too much rear braking could give you a high side or end up with you laying the bike down.

Get you on the bumps but clutch can be used to smooth them and again for me its using fingers not feet. Guess we all use what we're most comfortable with, we've several hundred years of experience on here between us so all methods obviously work

[darrsi]

I use both. Mostly front and a bit of rear for normal stopping and mostly rear for low speed stopping. I was taught 70-30 front to rear. The way I see it even if the front brakes have 90% of the bike's stopping power if you don't use the rear you're down 10% braking power so use them. For carrying a pillion too if you only use the front I've found a lot of headbutting goes on whereas using both keeps the bike more stable and stops the headbutting

Same as in traffic, if you only use the front it plunges the front end, it's overkill.

As for rear locking up, that happens when the clutch is pulled in, mainly in an emergency where you can't help grabbing everything in a panic situation.
I've taught myself not to pull the clutch in, but it's a natural reaction to clench everything available when faced with danger!

[Hedgetrimmer]

Same as in traffic, if you only use the front it plunges the front end, it's overkill.

...on a poor suspension set-up     


My rear pedal is adjusted so that it has a bit of travel before it starts to bite, and I find this helps preventing lock-up in a panic/emergency situation. Also, I make sure I don't have anything more effective than original/standard pads on the back.

[unfazed]

I use both most of the time. Filtering I use the rear a lot. I use the front on its own a bit when dry on some spirited riding using the rear to stablise the bike when necessary, and scrub of speed mid corner if necessary.

[darrsi]

Same as in traffic, if you only use the front it plunges the front end, it's overkill.

...on a poor suspension set-up     


My rear pedal is adjusted so that it has a bit of travel before it starts to bite, and I find this helps preventing lock-up in a panic/emergency situation. Also, I make sure I don't have anything more effective than original/standard pads on the back.

Agreed, rear pads can make a lot of difference, but it depends on how you generally ride too.
My bike is mainly for commuting, and always in traffic, so I actually like the rear brake to be sharp and feel very responsive and I use it a lot.
I also tend to avoid soft pads as well 'cos I'm not keen on the extra pad dust.

[flakey]

 

[esetest]

I used to use 70/30 , but at the race school they taught you apply the rear to load the front then the front and they encourage you to use the throttle only for manoeuvring , although personally I use the rear for low speed manoeuvring and front normal braking 

[Val]

It depends on the bike. Honda and some BMWs has linked brakes so you do not have too much option there when you use front it presses to some extent the rear brake too. Some old two stroke drum brakes the front was pathetic and dangerous.

On the Fazer I use rear for filtering a lot, in the wet or muddy, mid corner sometimes. Probably will use it on snow. Bear in mind I like soft organic pads rear, which makes it very gradual and when I say use I mean very soft gentle nudge too. Even in filtering my "aggresive" rear use is probably never more than 40% of its full capacity before it locks. When you are in the middle of the road on the chevrons where there is plenty of white paint, road debries and whatnot you have to be very gentle on the brakes 

Normal slow down I use front to shave off most of the speed, than final stop on lights I finish with rear touch that is just to put my left foot down and leave my right foot on the rear brake and pull the clutch. I am in 1st so when its green I just get up my left foot, get off the clutch and get on my way.

When I need to slow down fast I use front only. The Fazer has so good brakes that I always use two fingers only for the front. Even in emergency so far. In such case can't use rear anyway because when fast my feet balls are on the pegs away from the rear brake.

[His Dudeness]

Nobody's mentioned engine braking. I probably use it as much as I use the brakes.

[darrsi]

Nobody's mentioned engine braking. I probably use it as much as I use the brakes.

 


Yeah, i'd imagine we all do things on the bike as second nature without even thinking about it compared to a learner for instance.
For example when i get on the bike the front brake gets applied straight away to take control of it when removing the side stand, etc, but that would not be something a beginner would instantly do because they simply wouldn't know to do that.


I've never been a heavy braker anyway, probably due to years of taking a pillion and getting bored of being nutted.