Date: 29-03-24  Time: 08:04 am

Author Topic: Gears/Revs and Advanced Training  (Read 1336 times)

Celtic67

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Gears/Revs and Advanced Training
« on: 05 June 2022, 06:14:39 pm »
Evening folks,


I know similar questions have been asked, but I'm currently doing the advanced training with IAM and wanted to check as I'm not entirely comfortable.


What revs or gears do you use at different speeds on the FZS600? General revs in any gear when out on a ride?


Before this, I'd normally run at around 4k comfortably, so 3rd at 30mph, 4th or 5th at 40, up to 6th somewhere over 50. I've been pulled up on this & told to be in a lower gear. They recommended I look up a power graph and tried to keep it within peak power, but I didn't find anything definitive. As a rough idea they said at least halfway to redline.


On my last run I tried that, running around 6k, meaning I was in 2nd at 30, almost up to 40. I forget the rest, maybe 3rd up to 50. It felt horrible revving like that, especially in built up areas.


Am I being overly sensitive about my engine, do other folks run at 6k in anything below top gear?

Grahamm

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Re: Gears/Revs and Advanced Training
« Reply #1 on: 05 June 2022, 11:22:54 pm »
I've done the IAM Advanced test on my FZ6 which tends to be a bit rev happy anyway :)

There's two different ways of handling this, depending on the situation.

If you're just out on motorways, dual carriageways etc, then the recommendation is to ride in the highest gear you can use without the engine struggling, because that gives best fuel economy.

If you're in town or riding the twisties, however it's best to gear down because that gives you the best power response when you need it.

What I'd suggest is that you pick a familiar piece of twisty road and go up and down it using different gears and see how the bike responds if you take a corner in fourth gear and compare that to if you're in third or second.

Remember that your bike is designed to rev much higher than you're used to, that's why the redline is 14k on the FZ6, those revs are there to be used :thumbup

Celtic67

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Re: Gears/Revs and Advanced Training
« Reply #2 on: 06 June 2022, 12:13:51 pm »
That pretty much reinforces what the observer said. I'll have to keep at it until it doesn't feel as unpleasant. I did a ride last week on roads I know, twisty 50mph, I'd probably have been in 5th previously, this time in 3rd. As you'll know, it needs to be habit, so I can't just save this for my IAM rides.


Extra emphasis on checking the oil before setting off!

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Re: Gears/Revs and Advanced Training
« Reply #3 on: 06 June 2022, 05:19:02 pm »
:agree

Having done teh car IAM test many many many years ago and done a couple of ride outs with BikeSafe, IAM and others over the years, its horses for courses, or gears for roads.

On a motorway etc, cruise with low revs. The rest of the time you should keep the revs around the 40-60% mark for two reasons. 1. It allows instant acceleration should it be required without wasting that second or two changing down a cog. 2, it gives maximum engine braking should you need to shut off in a hurry giving you more speed reduction than brakes alone and starts that second or so quicker.

Obviously if you are accelerating then you go over the 60% but when slowing down, you should change down to keep the revs in the right area should you need to accelerate unexpectedly again.

People think the IAM brigade ride/drive like old farts but one of my favourite phrases when preparing for my car test and doing the bike ride outs is "if it is safe to make progress, make progress" and "whilst the speed limit is not a target, it is a limit, if it is safe to do so, you should be driving at that limit" You will actually fail your test with them if you are not at or near the limit where conditions (weather/traffic/pedestrians etc etc) permit.

Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

Grahamm

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Re: Gears/Revs and Advanced Training
« Reply #4 on: 06 June 2022, 09:17:05 pm »
People think the IAM brigade ride/drive like old farts

The thing is, if you do it smoothly and with confidence, it can look like you're not really trying, but I've seen a guy on a Pan European keeping up with a rider on a Bandit through the twisties.

The Bandit rider thought he was "going for it", whereas the guy on the Pan was just making it look so easy... :)

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Re: Gears/Revs and Advanced Training
« Reply #5 on: 06 June 2022, 10:05:00 pm »
People think the IAM brigade ride/drive like old farts

The thing is, if you do it smoothly and with confidence, it can look like you're not really trying, but I've seen a guy on a Pan European keeping up with a rider on a Bandit through the twisties.

The Bandit rider thought he was "going for it", whereas the guy on the Pan was just making it look so easy... :)


When I bought my FZS600 in 1999 I was given a day out with an advanced riding instructor. When I turned up he was borrowing the Pan European loan bike from the shop and was a serving traffic cop.  He was a firm believer in the national speed limit signs being called "GLF" signs. Go like Foc.
One thin I learned that day was dont even think about trying to outrun a lardy tourer ridden by the plod - they are much nimbler than they look and with teh right rider, they do it with ease.

BTW, we were doing 100+ where conditions allowed.
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Gnasher

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Re: Gears/Revs and Advanced Training
« Reply #6 on: 07 June 2022, 08:47:45 am »
I learned that day was dont even think about trying to outrun a lardy tourer ridden by the plod - they are much nimbler than they look and with teh right rider, they do it with ease.

BTW, we were doing 100+ where conditions allowed.

 :agree

Yep, I used to ride with a group of plod riders both while on their work bikes and on their own and helped train new ones.  It's always made me chuckle, when I see and get asked to fit power or suspension upgrades, to owners bikes, because they say they are being held back.  A very high percentage can't ride their bikes anywhere near it's limit as standard.  I used to regularly outride R1s, Blades, GSX-R's you name it, on my sorted (replaced back shock, end can and filter no real power gains) well set up Fazer.  Admittedly I've been riding since I was 16 and used to race many years ago, done a lot of advanced road work and time riding. Riding at high safe speed, to the conditions, safely takes skill, it's all about constant progression, not outright speeds obtained. 

The latter is the fastest way to die!         
Later

Grahamm

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Re: Gears/Revs and Advanced Training
« Reply #7 on: 07 June 2022, 10:20:28 am »
One thin I learned that day was dont even think about trying to outrun a lardy tourer ridden by the plod - they are much nimbler than they look and with teh right rider, they do it with ease.

BTW, we were doing 100+ where conditions allowed.

Years back, I was riding up the A377 Exeter to Barnstaple road on my FZ6 on my way to go surfing at Croyde.

Part way up, I was passed by a group of four Police bikes and, as the last one came by he slowed and beckoned me to join them!

I had the privilege of following them and getting a masterclass in positioning and speed control for half an hour before they turned off :thumbup

Celtic67

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Re: Gears/Revs and Advanced Training
« Reply #8 on: 07 June 2022, 03:02:58 pm »


My observer has made it clear that I'm not to break the speed limit except in exceptional circumstances for my safety. Overtaking someone who decides they don't like it and speeds up might be an example.


That said, they do want me to get up to speed pretty quickly. According to the book, acceleration should be "brisk and business like" and I'm being told to get up to speed more quickly! I do most riding with classic groups, but I didn't think I was hanging around when coming from a 30 to a 60, but seems I am. Maybe being in a lower gear will get me moving more quickly.


I did a single advanced day many years ago and they had me use lower gears. At the time, I'd have gone all the way up to 6th in a 30 and it took some time to get used to the higher revs. I guess I just need to get used to a more extreme version. Do we still have any other FZS600 riders here? Anyone else making their poor old bike scream? I'd have bought an R6 if I'd wanted to scare pedestrians.

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Re: Gears/Revs and Advanced Training
« Reply #9 on: 07 June 2022, 06:18:34 pm »
Anyone else making their poor old bike scream?


FZS has a 12500 red line for a reason, just rev it they love it.  Most cam chain tensioner issues are due to not enough revs  ;)
Later

darrsi

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Re: Gears/Revs and Advanced Training
« Reply #10 on: 07 June 2022, 06:53:29 pm »
I like to blow the cobwebs away on my bike occasionally, but to be totally honest it's the state of the roads that concerns me now, and stops me doing it more often.
Some days I have to take a different route into work, at normal speeds obviously, and some of the potholes i encounter can be genuinely frightening.
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Re: Gears/Revs and Advanced Training
« Reply #11 on: 07 June 2022, 09:35:47 pm »
My observer has made it clear that I'm not to break the speed limit except in exceptional circumstances for my safety.

Observers are required to say that, because they're not allowed to tell you to break the law.

But, for instance, ours used to say "Let's see some sparkle and some fizz" which in *no way* means they're advocating you exceeding the speed limit at any point... ;)

Quote
That said, they do want me to get up to speed pretty quickly. According to the book, acceleration should be "brisk and business like" and I'm being told to get up to speed more quickly!

You don't want to be pinging the revs off the limiter, but certainly using a lower gear will help you get on with it a bit more.

Quote
Anyone else making their poor old bike scream? I'd have bought an R6 if I'd wanted to scare pedestrians.

On the FZ6 you need to wring its neck a bit to get the best performance and that's a detuned R6 engine.