Reflecting on a near miss

[AndyL]

Having received some great moral support with a claim while stationary last November (which admittedly is still outstanding) I thought I may get some advice after a near miss last week. I don't think I did anything wrong but am trying to figure out if I may have missed warning signs that could have made avoiding a crash easier.

I entered a round about to go straight on (2nd exit) and then a lorry failed to give way. The round about has a significant amount of cobbled area that most vans and lorries clip  when going round. I used this to avoid the crash.

The weather was good as was the visibility at the junction so it can only be that the driver failed to look or looked but didn't see. I tend to struggle to tell when drivers are going to do that rather then come to a stop. I to favour a quick beep if in doubt (and when I see cars looking to emerge from a junction with a line of traffic going the other way) but in this case I thought it had stopped.

Any little nuggets of wisdom that you've noticed? I've noticed since passing my test and getting on the Fazer rather then the 125 I do at least seem to respond more decisively then in the past where I've seen a danger and then not knowing if steering away is better then just braking. I'm now glad for that part of the Mod1 test.

[Shytalk]

Sounds like you did the right things, did you have your lights on?
I always assume that they haven't seen you unless you get eyeball with them, in reality it doesn't matter who has the right of way, if they don't see you then you'll be the one that potentially comes off worse.

[snapper]

I tend to look at car drivers straight in the eye  espcially if i have right of way and have that feeling in the pit of your stomache !
but really if in doubt stop !

[mickvp]

Hi Andy,

As said, making eye contact is key to knowing they have seen you (but some still won't stop ), but of course still plan for the worst.

Sounds like you took the right course of action, and the fact you are assessing near misses and not just collisions is a credit to you.

This wouldn't have helped you on the roundabout, but I've been known to swerve within the confines of my lane when approaching cars at T junctions etc - it definately seems to help them notice me (they probably think I'm pissed, or bonkers right enough, and I'm not sure how the local rozzers would view it, but it works for me

[mhowse]

Give yourself a pat on the back ..well if you are double jointed that is. ..

You were alert enough to spot the hazard that could of ended in a painful way, but also where alert enough to spot a route that would safely take you away from the lorry coming onto the roundabout, a better option than jumping on the brakes that could of sent you into a slide, as those round bouts are well know for greasy surface, just remember that also the cobble area can be quite slippery when wet..like something else I recall but that is another story...

Keeping our eyes open as you did is why Bikers are Best....

[slimwilly]

Well avoided i say




Always expect another road user to do what you dont want them to do,,anticipation is the key here,,just watch them boyo,,stare at them,,they are all out there to get YOU!!!!

[mr self destruct]

When approaching a junction, roundabout or anything like that, I always have a quick look for an escape route beforehand in case something goes tits up. If there isn't one then I mentally prepare to stop dead.

[AndyL]

I don't think I'd have gone onto the cobble type area had it been wet (it's fairly flat stones so grip was good). I tend to move in the lane at junctions (swerve towards the centre a bit if the junction is on my left or towards the curb if it's on my right. With this round about I'm a bit unsure if that makes it look like I might be going right rather then straight on. I try and make eye contact but didn't in this case, partly as it was a lorry and a bit high considering it's fairly close (1st gear only)

I had my dip beam light on, admittedly didn't have my high vis on over the bike jacket. That's going back on! (a solicitor pointed out to me that even if it doesn't always help it can't make it worse and it does give a good impression if anything goes to court)

The only thing I did notice about the bike control in this case was that while I used the horn I didn't seem to be able to stop the horn until I'd come to a complete stop. The lorry driver just set off again and I did notice that he seemed to have taken a straight line when breaking though I don't know if he'd have driven over the cobbled area that much anyway and plenty do.

The lady in the car behind did stop and check that I was ok. I waited for a bit to set off but given that I took a wrong turn just after I think I should have got to a safe place and stopped for much longer then I did. 

[Punkstig]

Sorry guys but this eye contact thing is all a load of bullshit-
Well done, you've made what you perceive as eye contact with the driver- how on earth does that mean that they have made eye contact back?
Chances are they're not looking into your eyes!

[Exupnut]

Lol... +1

[fazersharp]

Yeh tiz a funny thing about eye contact, through a mirror visor ! but the principle and the intent is there in that I am looking and saying to myself (well actually out loud ) "see me" -- "see me" and then you see the wheels stop turning. They don't have eye contact as such as they just see the bike. If you are already on the roundabout then there is not much you can do except take evasive action, I just never trust anyone to do anything and always assume they have not seen me. 

[Grahamm]

The weather was good as was the visibility at the junction so it can only be that the driver failed to look or looked but didn't see. I tend to struggle to tell when drivers are going to do that rather then come to a stop. I to favour a quick beep if in doubt (and when I see cars looking to emerge from a junction with a line of traffic going the other way) but in this case I thought it had stopped.

My best advice is *never* assume that they're going to a) see you or b) stop for you.  Even if they appear to be looking right at you, it doesn't mean they've noticed you.

Try to adjust your speed such that, if they don't stop, you're not going to be in the same place as them when they cross onto the roundabout.

[bri h]

I think in some contries the people on the roundabout have to give way to the people joining it so euro lorries are a bit dodgier.Im with punkstig on the eye contact but i still do it so i can remember who to haunt if the bastard kills me.Keep riding and devolpe the sixth sense that tells you theyre all out to get you.haha

[Millietant]

I've been advised by Police riders and IAM riders to NOT look at the drivers or their eyes for recognition - BUT, watch the front & the wheels of the vehicle; if the vehicle doesn't appear to slowing, then assume they haven't seen you and put the appropriate escape route in your mind.


Looking at the front wheels is the easiest way to avoid cars pulling out from parking spaces in front of you (their wheels will be turned to the right, and watch for any signs of movement), or to avoid cars pulling out from junctions in front of you - the moment the wheels start to move you should accept they haven't seen you (even if they're looking directly at you) and take avoiding action. From experience, THIS WORKS.

[peterjca]

What I do when I'm on a roundabout and approaching junctions with eager traffic that seem to be edging forward onto the roundabout is shake my head at them.

This seems to work for me.

[locksmith]

Grahamm's given good advice.

My first thought was were you going too fast for the situation?
Not saying you were speeding but a trifle too fast that you couldn't pull up.

Observation is a key skill here!

[Hedgetrimmer]

My best advice is *never* assume that they're going to a) see you or b) stop for you.  Even if they appear to be looking right at you, it doesn't mean they've noticed you.

Try to adjust your speed such that, if they don't stop, you're not going to be in the same place as them when they cross onto the roundabout.

Better still, assume they WILL pull out on you - eye contact counts for nothing - they look at you, and still feckin pull out! Adjusting your road position to be as far from them as possible, drop your speed as soon as you see them, look for your escape route for when they do pull out on you - all good tactics, but obviously, every situation has it's variables. And still you can't be 100% certain one will never get you, but at least you'll have done everything to ensure it's not your fault and you've reduced the likelihood of severe injury if it happens.

[Punkstig]

It's nice to see all the sound advice- I follow the watch the front wheels one.
Yet with all this talk of adjusting speed, planning escape routes and the rest not one person has mentioned the horn-
Doesn't matter if it's a junction or roundabout, You see wheels turning the very first thing you do is push that motherfuckin horn!

[mr self destruct]

It's nice to see all the sound advice- I follow the watch the front wheels one.
Yet with all this talk of adjusting speed, planning escape routes and the rest not one person has mentioned the horn-
Doesn't matter if it's a junction or roundabout, You see wheels turning the very first thing you do is push that motherfuckin horn!

Even before I started riding, I've always thought if you've got time to react and hit the horn button it's not that great an emergency. I mean if I've got a split second to react and do something, it's going to be getting the fuck out of the way! 

[midden]

On roundabouts more/better use of indicators would help.  Especially with the over use of the outermost lane

[AndyL]

This roundabout is a single lane. I don't think my speed was to fast. I hadn't even got off the clutch and if anything I wonder if he thought he had more time to get around. I do think that given that he just went stright my steering before braking gave me less benifit in space then if I'd just braked front the start. I suspect I could have stopped sooner regardless given my speed and the dry weather.
 
I know round abouts were something I used to get comments on (going to slowly coming up to them when it was easy to see it was clear) and something I didn't like post CBT
 
It's been very useful to read this thread

[Hedgetrimmer]

The best thing to have come out of this experience, is that you haven't instantly blamed someone else for the near miss, but are analysing it to see if you did anything wrong, or could have done something better. Very sensible and positive approach; keep that up and you should survive to enjoy many safe biking miles.

[kawasutra]

I've been advised by Police riders and IAM riders to NOT look at the drivers or their eyes for recognition - BUT, watch the front & the wheels of the vehicle; if the vehicle doesn't appear to slowing, then assume they haven't seen you and put the appropriate escape route in your mind.


Looking at the front wheels is the easiest way to avoid cars pulling out from parking spaces in front of you (their wheels will be turned to the right, and watch for any signs of movement), or to avoid cars pulling out from junctions in front of you - the moment the wheels start to move you should accept they haven't seen you (even if they're looking directly at you) and take avoiding action. From experience, THIS WORKS.

Glad I read through the whole thread before hitting reply!
Yes, this was going to be my 2 pence's worth as well, watch the front wheel. Especially at junctions.
Not a fan of eye-contact but I do look where they're looking quickly.

[midden]

I know round abouts were something I used to get comments on (going to slowly coming up to them when it was easy to see it was clear) and something I didn't like post CBT
 
It's been very useful to read this thread

I think those comments would've been addressing your confidence as a rider.  Far better to approach/enter a roundabout too slow than too fast imo

[the cueball]

I've been advised by Police riders and IAM riders to NOT look at the drivers or their eyes for recognition - BUT, watch the front & the wheels of the vehicle; if the vehicle doesn't appear to slowing, then assume they haven't seen you and put the appropriate escape route in your mind.


Looking at the front wheels is the easiest way to avoid cars pulling out from parking spaces in front of you (their wheels will be turned to the right, and watch for any signs of movement), or to avoid cars pulling out from junctions in front of you - the moment the wheels start to move you should accept they haven't seen you (even if they're looking directly at you) and take avoiding action. From experience, THIS WORKS.

+1


I always look at the front wheels, don't care where they are looking, don't care about indicators, the wheels tell me what is going on.


I tend to have to have both brakes covered too if something doesn't 'feel' right.