Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: fazersharp on 11 November 2020, 02:01:39 pm
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Their seems to be a lot of talk about vaccine at the moment. Get ready for a massive campaign at least as vigorous as the one used to scare the sh1t out of the population about covid in the first place, calling anyone who has genuine concerns an "Anti vaxer". Remember in the middle of the BSE mad cow disease scandal the then agri minister John Gummer feeding his 4 year old daughter a burger, expect to also see that kind of thing.
I don't feel it will be directly compulsory but I predict it may as well be because without a piece paper saying you have had the vaccine you will not be allowed to do almost anything, along the lines of
Public transport, visit the doctors, use a supermarket in person, visit a footy match, get a loan or mortgage.One is reminded of
revelation 13:16-17
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark.
MY POLL - MY RULES. NO NAME CALLING, STAY POLITE AND DON'T GIVE THE MODS AN EXCUSE TO CANCEL
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Why wouldn't you? In fact I have volunteered for the COVID-19 vaccine trials that Imperial College are running in partnership with Oxford University.
I'm doing it because I think it's important that we all do our part to beat this virus. The vaccine is the one that has been developed in Russia. I received my first dose this morning 06:20 am, and I wanted to let you all know that it’s completely safe, with иo side effects whatsoeveя, and that I feelshκι я чувю себя немного стрно и я думю, что вытл осные уши. чувству себя немго страо
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I'm going to wait 20 years, to see if there are any side effects.
As a child of the 1950's, I remember the govt dustcarts spraying the streets with watered down versions of chemical warfare agents
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On one of my local faceache groups there is a similar poll going on at the moment and the no vote is about 60% of everyone that has voted.
I cannot understand why people would not want it. Some are saying their immune system is better protection. Some are saying they dont trust vaccines full stop and some are saying they want to wait 10 years to see the side effects on this one first. The final group dont care if they get it as they are young/fit/etc so wont be badly affected by Covid.
Personally I think the final group are selfish feccers as they are the ones that will spread it to the more vulnerable people. As for not trusting vaccines, look at the people who are affected by Covid. It is the people who didnt have vaccines when they were younger for MMR, Polio etc. Maybe the MMR/Polio/Tetanus jabs are actually the reason so many younger people are less affected by Covid.
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My comment was tongue in cheek.
I imagine there is a substantial number of people in front of me on the list of recipients, and rightly so. Hopefully, any side effects etc will be apparent before I get my shot, at which point I will decide.
The final group to which you refer arent going to get the vaccine as they are not at serious risk of harm from the virus, as I understand it
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Why wouldn't you? In fact I have volunteered for the COVID-19 vaccine trials that Imperial College are running in partnership with Oxford University.
I'm doing it because I think it's important that we all do our part to beat this virus. The vaccine is the one that has been developed in Russia. I received my first dose this morning 06:20 am, and I wanted to let you all know that it’s completely safe, with иo side effects whatsoeveя, and that I feelshκι я чувю себя немного стрно и я думю, что вытл осные уши. чувству себя немго страо
:rollin
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As I understand it the vaccine in the news right now is not suitable/ does not work on the young.
Which then leads me to the question - how is it that we are told that it is not known why the young are largely unaffected and yet they know how to develop a vaccine directed at the old and not the young.
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Nothing to see here - quoted my own post instead of editing it.
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MY POLL - MY RULES. NO NAME CALLING, STAY POLITE AND DON'T GIVE THE MODS AN EXCUSE TO CANCEL
Not cancelling, but one post and the reply quoting it have been removed.
Please keep this civil and on topic.
GrahamM
Moderator.
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MY POLL - MY RULES. NO NAME CALLING, STAY POLITE AND DON'T GIVE THE MODS AN EXCUSE TO CANCEL
Not cancelling, but one post and the reply quoting it have been removed.
Please keep this civil and on topic.
GrahamM
Moderator.
Thank you - that is what was needed.
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As regards the vaccine, I'm currently in the Don't Know category.
I want there to be a vaccine, I support vaccines, but I also know that they need a rigorous and comprehensive testing programme before they're rolled out to everyone.
I'm tempted to say that I'll take it a week after every Government Minister has had theirs...
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Not cancelling, but one post and the reply quoting it have been removed.
Please keep this civil and on topic.
Yes, I noticed my perfectly civil post was deleted.
This is a political thread. It is conspiracy theory nonsense. Fazersharp complains that the government has spread propaganda in order to scare the population.
Is it propaganda that almost 50,000 people have died so far during this pandemic? Is it propaganda that our country had to be placed in lockdown in order to protect our health services from collapse and in turn prevent many more 10,000’s Covid deaths? Is it propaganda that 10,000’s of people are suffering long term effects post Covid? Is it propaganda that many are struggling, and indeed a fair number have died patiently waiting for routine treatement that our NHS stuggles to provide becuase it is dealing with the pandemic.
I also take great exception to Covid19 and this alleged propaganda being compared to climate change and “"climate denier”. Man made climate change is a fact. Covid19 is a fact. This thread is an insult to us all.
The idea of people being forced to take allegedly dangerous vaccines and/or excluded from society if they choose not to are nasty and downright dangerous fake news conspiracy stories.
Such dangerous and clearly political, and the very worst sort of politics, should not be entertained on foc u.
I will message this to you Grahamn, so that if you choose to delet my post a record of it will remain.
This thread should be locked or deleted.
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Not cancelling, but one post and the reply quoting it have been removed.
Please keep this civil and on topic.
Yes, I noticed my perfectly civil post was deleted.
This is a political thread. It is conspiracy theory nonsense. Fazersharp complains that the government has spread propaganda in order to scare the population.
Is it propaganda that almost 50,000 people have died so far during this pandemic? Is it propaganda that our country had to be placed in lockdown in order to protect our health services from collapse and in turn prevent many more 10,000’s Covid deaths? Is it propaganda that 10,000’s of people are suffering long term effects post Covid? Is it propaganda that many are struggling, and indeed a fair number have died patiently waiting for routine treatement that our NHS stuggles to provide becuase it is dealing with the pandemic.
I also take great exception to Covid19 and this alleged propaganda being compared to climate change and “"climate denier”. Man made climate change is a fact. Covid19 is a fact. This thread is an insult to us all.
The idea of people being forced to take allegedly dangerous vaccines and/or excluded from society if they choose not to are nasty and downright dangerous fake news conspiracy stories.
Such dangerous and clearly political, and the very worst sort of politics, should not be entertained on foc u.
I will message this to you Grahamn, so that if you choose to delet my post a record of it will remain.
This thread should be locked or deleted.
Happy to remove the word propaganda for you if you do not like it, but it perfectly describes what was done and needed for the UK to take the virus seriously.Here is the definition of the word Propaganda
Propaganda is communication (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication) that is used primarily to influence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_influence) an audience and further an agenda (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_agenda), which may not be objective (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_(journalism)) and may be presenting facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_language) to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is presented.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#cite_note-brit_BLS-1)
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What you are doing is dangerous Fazersharp, and it is wrong.
The spread of this miss-information has the ability to cost lives.
A new report by the Centre for Countering Digital Hate (CCDH) has lambasted social media companies for allowing the anti-vaccine movement to remain on their platforms. The report's authors noted that social media accounts held by so-called anti-vaxxers have increased their following by at least 7·8 million people since 2019. “The decision to continue hosting known misinformation content and actors left online anti-vaxxers ready to pounce on the opportunity presented by coronavirus”, stated the report. The CCDH warned that the growing anti-vaccine movement could undermine the roll-out of any future vaccine against COVID-19.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landig/article/PIIS2589-7500(20)30227-2/fulltext (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landig/article/PIIS2589-7500(20)30227-2/fulltext)
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What you are doing is dangerous Fazersharp, and it is wrong.
The spread of this miss-information has the ability to cost lives.
A new report by the Centre for Countering Digital Hate (CCDH) has lambasted social media companies for allowing the anti-vaccine movement to remain on their platforms. The report's authors noted that social media accounts held by so-called anti-vaxxers have increased their following by at least 7·8 million people since 2019. “The decision to continue hosting known misinformation content and actors left online anti-vaxxers ready to pounce on the opportunity presented by coronavirus”, stated the report. The CCDH warned that the growing anti-vaccine movement could undermine the roll-out of any future vaccine against COVID-19.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landig/article/PIIS2589-7500(20)30227-2/fulltext (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landig/article/PIIS2589-7500(20)30227-2/fulltext)
To please you I have removed the word "propaganda" there is nothing in my post that is spreading miss information whatsoever.
You can not go around demanding post to be cancelled just because you and only you do not agree with it. Any normal person reading my post would not read into it any form of miss information.
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Happy to remove the word propaganda for you if you do not like it, but it perfectly describes what was done and needed for the UK to take the virus seriously.Here is the definition of the word Propaganda
Propaganda is communication that is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda, which may not be objective and may be presenting facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is presented.[1]
Covid19 is not an agenda, It is not perception, it is not a myth pushed on the back of loaded language in order to produce an emotive result.
50,000 deaths in the UK, 10,000’s with long term health issues. What is it that you do not understand?
It is real. This thread is an insult to everybody that has been touched by Covid19. I mean honestly, I am lost for words. It is sickening.
This is the very worst kind of politics. If you want to peddle this kind of crap, there is facebook and twitter. Though I have to say that you may find that shortly the anti-vax accounts start getting shut down on those platforms – at least I certainly hope so. In the meantime, I’d ask you not to peddle this crap here. Your thread is deeply insulting and some may find it distressing. It is not something we need on a bike forum.
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Joking aside..... of course I'll be having the vaccine. I trust scientists far more than conspiracy theorists, and even more than politicians. It is going to take time to get through everybody, and it would be good if those who refuse immunisation to be denied the privileges of society, so they don't risk spreading to those still waiting.
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Joking aside..... of course I'll be having the vaccine. I trust scientists far more than conspiracy theorists, and even more than politicians.
Yes I think that is going to be one of the biggest hurdles to a mass take up of any vaccination, people just do not trust this Government. I think we will see a mass advertising campaign using well known and loved celebrities.
I wonder how many of those that do not want the vaccine will change their mind if £50 is flashed in front of them.
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I wonder how many of those that do not want the vaccine will change their mind if £50 is flashed in front of them.
I doubt very much that will happen. The vast majority of people will be desperate for it.
Jonathan Van Tam said he would be first in the queue, if he could. That's good enough for me. As long as it's run by the proper NHS and not Typhoid Dido (Harding).
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I wonder how many of those that do not want the vaccine will change their mind if £50 is flashed in front of them.
I doubt very much that will happen. The vast majority of people will be desperate for it.
Jonathan Van Tamm said he would be first in the queue, if he could.
I think he said he first wanted to test it out on his mum :rollin
I know that the survey being carried out by the ONS have been paying paying £50 for the first covid 19 test you take and then a further £25 for each subsequent one you have in the form of vouchers. Could be the way to go maybe.
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If anyone has a problem with a post, they are free to use the Report facility.
Moderation decisions are final and discussions will not be entered into.
GrahamM
Moderator.
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I think he said he first wanted to test it out on his mum
Yes said that only because he knew he wouldn't be first in the queue. But his 78 year old mum would be.
Somebody on the news suggested Bozo should be first :D
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I think he said he first wanted to test it out on his mum
Yes said that only because he knew he wouldn't be first in the queue. But his 78 year old mum would be.
Somebody on the news suggested Bozo should be first :D
Maybe they should sell tickets for it :lol
But I also heard it mentioned something about having a antibody test first, if so he may still have them and not be eligible.
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Probably this vaccine will be similar to the so called flu vaccine, which only works 35% to 40% of the time, and that we are all being used as part of a great medical experiment. The best example of a vaccine that works is the polio vaccine which works 100% of the time and I for one am hoping against hope that the Covid 19 vaccine will be as effective as the polio one, but I shall not hold my breath on that.
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Probably this vaccine will be similar to the so called flu vaccine, which only works 35% to 40% of the time,
Even if it does only work a third of the time, that would still have the positive benefit of reducing the R number and cause the number of cases to diminish, taking the pressure off the NHS.
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Probably this vaccine will be similar to the so called flu vaccine, which only works 35% to 40% of the time,
Even if it does only work a third of the time, that would still have the positive benefit of reducing the R number and cause the number of cases to diminish, taking the pressure off the NHS.
It may help the NHS but I don't see how it is going to help society return to normal because the vulnerable people and the scared but not vulnerable will not trust still having a 66% chance of catching it. And if it turns out to only be 33% effective I don't see enough people taking it up. Especially if it needs a follow up jab a couple of weeks later and the first jab was a bad experience, long waits - a day off work ect.
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Probably this vaccine will be similar to the so called flu vaccine, which only works 35% to 40% of the time, and that we are all being used as part of a great medical experiment. T
(As I understand it) the problem with the flu virus, is it's prepared well in advance. So they are predicting how flu will mutate the following winter. I believe for the Covid-19 vaccine, they have copied its genetic code, so it should be much more precise. Unless the Danish minks bugger it up of course...
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A day off work, or run a severe risk of dying. Tough decision.... :rolleyes
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I don't see how it is going to help society return to normal because the vulnerable people and the scared but not vulnerable will not trust still having a 66% chance of catching it.
Because at some point there will be a news story that there were no new COVID-19 cases reported today.
It may take a little longer than if the vaccine was 90% effective, but it will happen.
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I caught on the news yesterday that only 1 in 5 of the folk who should have isolated, did so. For sure, if I were govt, I would have done some things differetly, but the spread of the virus, in in the large part, due to the population and the lack of enforcement by those in authority.
Also, having worked in the pharma industry, I know how long it takes to go through the process of registering new drugs, or even to modify an existing one. Its the relatively short development time that causes me concern
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Was in my local supermarket this morning and I was totally dismayed by the amount of people mainly women who were lifting items from the shelves , looking at them and replacing them, do they know that there's a friggin epidemic at the moment--stop doing this you friggin eejits, just stop it.
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Also, having worked in the pharma industry, I know how long it takes to go through the process of registering new drugs, or even to modify an existing one. Its the relatively short development time that causes me concern
That's interesting. We are constantly told the reason new drugs cost so much is because the amount of time it takes to create a new one. So it looks to me either pharma drag their heels on purpose to increase drug price or this vaccine has not gone through the hoops it should.
As far as I can find out it has not been tested on the very vunerable that are first in line to get it.
Reading up on the vaccine I see that one or two of the executives in the company cashed in millions worth of shares on the day the vaccine apparent success was announced.
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Was in my local supermarket this morning and I was totally dismayed by the amount of people mainly women who were lifting items from the shelves , looking at them and replacing them, do they know that there's a friggin epidemic at the moment--stop doing this you friggin eejits, just stop it.
What gets me is that there are sanitizing stations on the way in to supermarkets but nothing on the way out.
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I see the Scottish Government are looking for volunteers to test out the new Covid 19 vaccine, Can I nominate the whole of the Scottish Government ministers and the First Minister and her hubby to be the first volunteers for this experiment, it only seems fair to me.
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Was in my local supermarket this morning and I was totally dismayed by the amount of people mainly women who were lifting items from the shelves , looking at them and replacing them, do they know that there's a friggin epidemic at the moment--stop doing this you friggin eejits, just stop it.
What gets me is that there are sanitizing stations on the way in to supermarkets but nothing on the way out.
Thats because they have no reason to look after you at that point. By then you've already spent your money and they couldn't care less what you do 🙄
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Agree totally.
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I keep an alcohol hand gel in the car, then wipe the door handles as well
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What gets me is that there are sanitizing stations on the way in to supermarkets but nothing on the way out.I bought a 5ltr tube and use it fill up little pocket bottles. The last thing I do is sanitize my hands, before I put my gloves on etc.
And regarding these stupid people touching things yeah its annoying, you can try and mitigate it when you get home but wiping thing down with antiseptic wipes. Or use a spray bottle and kitchen towl (this is a bit messy though). Fruit/veg etc get a clean in the sink with clean water.
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Its really annoying because before covid I always brought 2 ltr of alcohol IPA and used it in a spray bottle just for general cleaning around Sharp Halls kitchens then covid hit and the price went through the roof, luckily I had just brought a new supply which lasted me until the price came back down again in the summer.I get the 99.9% and dilute it 10% with water to eek it out a bit further.I also spray the shopping with it when I return to Sharp Hall.
Here's the thing - we are told that covid can stay on cardboard for upto 24 hours and hard surfaces for 72 hours, and yet we are told their is no issue with post or food, no one is talking about this. Sounds like a D notice to me.
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Yes I think that is going to be one of the biggest hurdles to a mass take up of any vaccination, people just do not trust this Government. I think we will see a mass advertising campaign using well known and loved celebrities.
Today's news - exactly as I said would happen. Infact almost word for word what I said --you can now see written in the Gardian
“NHS England are looking for famous faces, people who are known and loved. It could be celebrities who are very sensible and have done sensible stuff during the pandemic.” https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/nov/29/nhs-enlist-sensible-celebrities-coronavirus-vaccine-take-up (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/nov/29/nhs-enlist-sensible-celebrities-coronavirus-vaccine-take-up)
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I notice the BBC and Sky are laying into Anthony fauci over his remarks implying the UK has rushed its vax approval. This is the same Fauci that they are now calling stupid who they loved to quote ad nauseum as an expert when he was slagging off trump :rolleyes
The European Medicines Agency has also suggested British regulators prioritised speed over winning public confidence.
Sour grapes or do they have a point. Looking at the poll its running 9 yes and 9 no or don't know.
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Looking at the poll its running 9 yes and 9 no or don't know
Looks like a clear majority for 'yes' to me :rolleyes
If you could go around co-opting the 'don't knows', who knows what might have happened. We might still be in the EU ;)
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Looking at the poll its running 9 yes and 9 no or don't know
Looks like a clear majority for 'yes' to me :rolleyes
If you could go around co-opting the 'don't knows', who knows what might have happened. We might still be in the EU ;)
Well if you recall the EU vote based on the polls people thought remain would win but it looks like all those "don't knows" actually turned into Leave votes in the privacy of the voting booth.
Professional pollsters are learning that when asked there are people that dare not say their real opinions.
Look at the Trump vote this year It looked like Biden would walk it.
I have read that pollsters have identified “shy” Trump voters—people reluctant to share their opinions for fear of being judged. Could the same be said for what people say when asked about taking the vax for fear of being called an anti vaxer or unsociable, inconsiderate conspiracy theory nut jobs and so on, when they just have genuine fears.
Some polsters I think are are now incorporating a "How do you think your friends and neighbors will vote?”—which some researchers believe makes it easier for people to share their true opinions without fear of being judged for their views.
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As I said before, it normally takes 5 to 10 years to develop effective vaccines. It took 45 years for the Ebola vaccine. Because of the threat posed by Covid to economic structures as well as human life, processes have been ramped up worldwide, and I am concerned that the process of clinical trails as described in several worthy medical journals for vaccine development, which normally span the above mentioned time frame, cannot be compressed and retain its certainty. As yet, I'm not aware that any other medical governing body, apart from out own MHRA, has approved any vaccine for use yet in their own nations, or the WHO. Normal success rate for developed vaccines is 6%, and an ineffective vaccine could well make the situation worse. I sincerely hope that that the vaccines every success.
I'll wait for further developments before I take my shot(s)
Stay safe all
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More people spent more money on research for a Covid19 vaccine as it is more prevalent and deadly than Ebola and has the ability to stop thw world economy. If Ebola was as bad as Covid19, it would have been done within a year too.
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Perhaps this will be the way for all new vaccines instead of 10-20 year development. Its true that there has been a massive worldwide push and co operation not to mention money thrown at this.
As far as I can tell it has only been tested on 20 thousand people for a few months.
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More people spent more money on research for a Covid19 vaccine as it is more prevalent and deadly than Ebola and has the ability to stop thw world economy. If Ebola was as bad as Covid19, it would have been done within a year too.
Death rate for Ebola is around 50% of infections. Mainly occurs in the less well developed nations, so unlikely to receive the same level of focus one suspects.
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As far as I can tell it has only been tested on 20 thousand people for a few months.
That's what happens when you have 65 million cases worldwide and 1.5 million deaths so far.
Speed is important. Bring it on
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Perhaps this will be the way for all new vaccines instead of 10-20 year development.
There have been massive changes to vaccine development and delivery systems in the past few years.
That, plus the billions that have been poured into the technology have been a real game-changer.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-vaccine-covid-treatment-latest-b1722683.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-vaccine-covid-treatment-latest-b1722683.html)
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Yes looks like this "war" has advanced tech in a way that all was have done.Its still only been tested on 20,000 people as far as I can see.
I treat it the same as whenever a new softwear update is released after beta testing once many 100's of thousands have downloaded it its only then that they find major problems and have to quickly release a patch, I never have my devices to auto update and I wait a few weeks first to see if people have had issues.
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The approved vaccine has been developed using "Emergency Regulations" and has not undergone the extensive trails that normally take place. Its much akin to a war, where desperate need shoves aside longer term plans. The companies will be aware that, should longer term effects result, there will be no shortage of people dragging them through the courts.
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The approved vaccine has been developed using "Emergency Regulations" and has not undergone the extensive trails that normally take place. Its much akin to a war, where desperate need shoves aside longer term plans. The companies will be aware that, should longer term effects result, there will be no shortage of people dragging them through the courts.
No one will be allowed to take them to court.
The UK government has granted pharmaceutical giant Pfizer a legal indemnity protecting it from being sued, enabling its coronavirus vaccine to be rolled out across the country as early as next week.
The Department of Health and Social Care has confirmed the company has been given an indemnity protecting it from legal action as a result of any problems with the vaccine.
Ministers have also changed the law in recent weeks to give new protections to companies such as Pfizer, giving them immunity from being sued by patients in the event of any complications.
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The government is taking on the liability under the Vaccine Damages Payments Act.
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Wealthy countries are buying up all the vaccines. Covid will continue to thrive in the '3rd World'.
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The approved vaccine has been developed using "Emergency Regulations" and has not undergone the extensive trails that normally take place. Its much akin to a war, where desperate need shoves aside longer term plans. The companies will be aware that, should longer term effects result, there will be no shortage of people dragging them through the courts.
No one will be allowed to take them to court.
The UK government has granted pharmaceutical giant Pfizer a legal indemnity protecting it from being sued, enabling its coronavirus vaccine to be rolled out across the country as early as next week.
The Department of Health and Social Care has confirmed the company has been given an indemnity protecting it from legal action as a result of any problems with the vaccine.
Ministers have also changed the law in recent weeks to give new protections to companies such as Pfizer, giving them immunity from being sued by patients in the event of any complications.
Hmm. Didnt know that. The taxpayer will foot any future liabilities then?
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The government is taking on the liability under the Vaccine Damages Payments Act.
:agree ;)
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Well so much for not forcing it on people 🙄
http://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-britons-back-air-travel-ban-for-people-whove-not-received-coronavirus-vaccine-poll-suggests-12154203 (http://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-britons-back-air-travel-ban-for-people-whove-not-received-coronavirus-vaccine-poll-suggests-12154203)
Surely if you've been vaccinated then your immune and you have nothing to fear from people that haven't 🤔
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Well so much for not forcing it on people 🙄 [url]http://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-britons-back-air-travel-ban-for-people-whove-not-received-coronavirus-vaccine-poll-suggests-12154203[/url] ([url]http://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-britons-back-air-travel-ban-for-people-whove-not-received-coronavirus-vaccine-poll-suggests-12154203[/url])
Surely if you've been vaccinated then your immune and you have nothing to fear from people that haven't
Perhaps because you'd be flying to a country that hasn't vaccinated yet?
Unless you are just going to stay on the plane?
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Well so much for not forcing it on people 🙄
Surely if you've been vaccinated then your immune and you have nothing to fear from people that haven't 🤔
Yep don't get it either.Maybe its because the current jab dose not stop you getting it but only reduces the symptoms also they do not even know if you can still pass it on after being vaccinated. So I don't see much point in everyone getting it.Just vaccinate the very old and the very vulnerable.
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Well so much for not forcing it on people 🙄
I was one of the people on that YouGov poll and IMO the question was phrased poorly.
What they asked was "Once a vaccine against the coronavirus is freely available to all, do you think it would or would not be acceptable to only allow people who have had a vaccination to....
"Travel by plane?"
When phrased like that, it's almost guaranteed that a majority would think "Well, I suppose it's only sensible..."
However if they'd phrased it as "Do you think it would be acceptable to ban people from travelling by plane if they hadn't had the vaccine", I think the results would have been somewhat different.
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Well so much for not forcing it on people 🙄
I was one of the people on that YouGov poll and IMO the question was phrased poorly.
What they asked was "Once a vaccine against the coronavirus is freely available to all, do you think it would or would not be acceptable to only allow people who have had a vaccination to....
"Travel by plane?"
When phrased like that, it's almost guaranteed that a majority would think "Well, I suppose it's only sensible..."
However if they'd phrased it as "Do you think it would be acceptable to ban people from travelling by plane if they hadn't had the vaccine", I think the results would have been somewhat different.
Yes I totally agree. It sounds very much like they have taken the typical journalistic approach of bending the truth in the news 🙄
As for the vaccine, I doubt it worth trying to vaccinate everyone as there are just too many that don't want it. As Fazersharp said save it for the elderly and vulnerable. Those of us young or healthy enough to not worry about it will be fine, just like the seasonal flu.
I think faster more accurate testing it the most viable option and they seem to be getting there. My wife and all her coleages in the materiality ward have been given 3 months worth of 'rapid tests' that they will be using twice a week. I've not seen her use one yet but from my understanding the results are shown within half an hour!
If they can build on that and get it down to a few minutes then that could be a real game changer with regards to thing like concerts, sports events and especially travel. It would just need up being another few minutes you spend in security at the airport?
Either way that along with this vaccine is a promising step in the right direction for a change
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Wealthy countries are buying up all the vaccines. Covid will continue to thrive in the '3rd World'.
Astra Zeneca are offering their vaccine at cost price to third world countries for perpetuity:https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/23/oxford-astrazeneca-results-covid-vaccine-developing-countriesThe hope is this will give them a vaccine they can afford so Covid cannot thrive.
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As far as I can find out it has not been tested on the very vunerable that are first in line to get it.
Well there's some serious ethical dilemma's in trialling a new experiment drug in a population who are very vulnerable, in case side effects are happen to be found...
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As Fazersharp said save it for the elderly and vulnerable. Those of us young or healthy enough to not worry about it will be fine, just like the seasonal flu.
Except the evidence shows it's not quite like seasonal flu, with many young and healthy people being hit badly with some very worrying long term issues. Organ damage, loss of smell/taste, heart issues and other complications from the spread of tiny clots from the fall out. Many of which we're still coming to light and slowly being linked to Covid. Not to mention many young and healthy people from BAME background who have not faired well at all.
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Canna understand this whole anti-vax thing and TBH I'm gonna even try to understand it. If you don't want to vaccinate, your choice, survival of the fittest and all that, go score yourself a Darwin award.
At the end of the day, I'm paying plenty enough tax, some of which (not enough) will go to NHS and possibly help you. My wife is working 12hr shifts 3-4 times a week in ICU, decked out in whatever PPE she can get hold of and will be ready to drag you through it on a ventilator (if you're lucky enough). My employer (www.titian.co.uk (http://www.titian.co.uk)) and dev team I manage produce software used at countless pharmaceutical and bio-tech companies across the globe, helping them in their research for all kinds of future drugs that might save your sorry ass. I've spent 8 years with them working with many of the biggies, GSK, AstraZeneca, Roche, Janssen, Pfizer, Evotec, Merck, Sanofi, Novo Nordisk and many others, I've visited and worked in the labs at many and I can assure you, there's some bloody clever people out there working their hardest to stop you getting sick.
But, if you'd rather take heed of some mumbo-jumbo off some random Facebook group of clueless Luddites, go for it. But spreading disinformation is as damaging as spreading the virus itself.
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But, if you'd rather take heed of some mumbo-jumbo off some random Facebook group of clueless Luddites, go for it. But spreading disinformation is as damaging as spreading the virus itself.
no one is spreading disinformation, or reading fake news Facebook crap. Calm down.
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My wife and all her coleages in the materiality ward have been given 3 months worth of 'rapid tests' that they will be using twice a week. I've not seen her use one yet but from my understanding the results are shown within half an hour!
Did she also tell you that if she gets a positive result from the lateral flow test that she then has to get a proper pcr test to confirm it. Seems that they are happy to accept a negative LFT but not a positive.
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As for the vaccine, I doubt it worth trying to vaccinate everyone as there are just too many that don't want it.
The point is not to "vaccinate everyone", but to vaccinate *enough" people that we can't get outbreaks again because the R Number will be low enough to stop it spreading.
Those of us young or healthy enough to not worry about it will be fine, just like the seasonal flu.
I'm 55 (ye gods!) but I'm pretty healthy, not overweight, keep myself fit etc, however today I got a phone call offering me the annual Flu Jab.
I wasn't sure whether to have it or not, simply because I couldn't really see any benefit to myself, however then I considered that the downsides of *not* having it (not the least putting my severely asthmatic girlfriend at risk) were serious enough to outweigh any other factors, so I called the Doctors and booked it in for Wednesday.
Rememer that, just because you're "young and healthy", doesn't mean that you're *not* going to have problems with COVID and, with the risk of symptomless transmission, you could pass it on to someone else who is going to have problems.
I think faster more accurate testing it the most viable option
Had we put our efforts into testing and tracing contacts of people at the start of the Pandemic (and not freely letting people from virus hotspots to fly into the country and then merrily travel on their way), we could have probably reduced the severity of it by a large amount!
Either way that along with this vaccine is a promising step in the right direction for a change
That's one of the few upsides, it's been a wake-up call for those in power and the medical sciences are, at least, being listened to, rather than ignored.
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Did she also tell you that if she gets a positive result from the lateral flow test that she then has to get a proper pcr test to confirm it. Seems that they are happy to accept a negative LFT but not a positive.
Probably because:a) It's still a good way to catch asymptomatic patients or those not yet showing symptoms. Even though its not a 100% accurate test, it's still good to catch those who wouldn't be tested otherwise. Whilst those showing symptoms will likely be pretty ill and be given a PCR test anyway.b) Although it has a low false positive rate (0.32% ish), the socio-economically ramifications of telling someone (and housemates) to isolate for 14 days is great, so why not double check them with a PCR test to confirm they do indeed have covid?
c) To test everyone with the PCR test is a huge drain on resources, with resources needing to go to screening labs etc. The LFT is a reasonable first pass test to help bring cases down.
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Did she also tell you that if she gets a positive result from the lateral flow test that she then has to get a proper pcr test to confirm it. Seems that they are happy to accept a negative LFT but not a positive.
Probably because:a) It's still a good way to catch asymptomatic patients or those not yet showing symptoms. Even though its not a 100% accurate test, it's still good to catch those who wouldn't be tested otherwise. Whilst those showing symptoms will likely be pretty ill and be given a PCR test anyway.b) Although it has a low false positive rate (0.32% ish), the socio-economically ramifications of telling someone (and housemates) to isolate for 14 days is great, so why not double check them with a PCR test to confirm they do indeed have covid?
c) To test everyone with the PCR test is a huge drain on resources, with resources needing to go to screening labs etc. The LFT is a reasonable first pass test to help bring cases down.
Trouble with the LFT is that it is not very sensitive and can only detect covid when it is at a higher viral load, even though they have already been contagious before that level, which is why the trial for the test is for it to be taken every 3 days.
It certainly is better than no test at all though. Given time hopefully it will become more sensitive and accurate. I can see a time in the future at an airport a "fast track" lane for people with a vaccine stamp in the passport and another line for people without it that then after take a test before flying.
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I can see a time in the future at an airport a "fast track" lane for people with a vaccine stamp in the passport and another line for people without it
I can see a time coming very soon where people start trying to fake this...
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Standing out for me in this crisis has been the sheer number of people who appear to have an utter disregard for the health and safety of others. They dont appear to have grasped the severity of the effects, both on people and the economy. Sadly, most appear to be the younger generation, the Snowflakes, who require total freedom without any responsibility, and they appear to have demonstrated that, in a crisis, the government can no longer expect citizens to "do their duty".
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Standing out for me in this crisis has been the sheer number of people who appear to have an utter disregard for the health and safety of others. They dont appear to have grasped the severity of the effects, both on people and the economy. Sadly, most appear to be the younger generation, the Snowflakes, who require total freedom without any responsibility, and they appear to have demonstrated that, in a crisis, the government can no longer expect citizens to "do their duty".
Proof of this can be seen in places like Medway and Swale where despite the lockdown, numbers are still rising
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Proof of this can be seen in places like Medway and Swale where despite the lockdown, numbers are still rising
You're right of course, but I think in Medway and Swale it's mainly the Millwall supporters :D
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I was chatting to our local pharmacist yesterday. He was saying they because we've already had Covid virus like Sars they didn't need to start from scratch, it was a development of what they already had. Also it was funded properly.
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Just like I said on the 5th December, my instincts are to not be the first to adopt anything new until it has been tested "in the wild" They have now found out that those with existing severe allergic conditions should not have the vaccine. Also I thought this RNA vaccine was basically inert so I don't get why those with allergic conditions are having a reaction to it.
I treat it the same as whenever a new softwear update is released after beta testing once many 100's of thousands have downloaded it its only then that they find major problems and have to quickly release a patch, I never have my devices to auto update and I wait a few weeks first to see if people have had issues.
It still looks like it does not stop you getting it and they do not know if it even stops you from spreading it, but what they say is that iit does reduce the symptoms and increase a positive outcome if you do get it. So as far as I can see once you have received the vaccine then that only increases the chance of you spreading it asymptomatically.So there for even when had the vaccine, if you do get covid you should still need to self isolate shouldn't you ?.
I couldn't help but notice that the first to get it were the fittest youngest looking 90 year olds I have ever seen. One 91 year old bloke was interviewed and he explained how he DROVE to the hospital. Seems they are being a little careful as to not give it to any frail oldies - maybe just incase.
Look out in the new year honours for those behind the vaccine, maybe even for the the trial volunteers too.
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Just like I said on the 5th December, my instincts are to not be the first to adopt anything new until it has been tested "in the wild" They have now found out that those with existing severe allergic conditions should not have the vaccine. Also I thought this RNA vaccine was basically inert so I don't get why those with allergic conditions are having a reaction to it.
I treat it the same as whenever a new softwear update is released after beta testing once many 100's of thousands have downloaded it its only then that they find major problems and have to quickly release a patch, I never have my devices to auto update and I wait a few weeks first to see if people have had issues.
It still looks like it does not stop you getting it and they do not know if it even stops you from spreading it, but what they say is that iit does reduce the symptoms and increase a positive outcome if you do get it. So as far as I can see once you have received the vaccine then that only increases the chance of you spreading it asymptomatically.So there for even when had the vaccine, if you do get covid you should still need to self isolate shouldn't you ?.
I couldn't help but notice that the first to get it were the fittest youngest looking 90 year olds I have ever seen. One 91 year old bloke was interviewed and he explained how he DROVE to the hospital. Seems they are being a little careful as to not give it to any frail oldies - maybe just incase.
Look out in the new year honours for those behind the vaccine, maybe even for the the trial volunteers too.
From what I've been hearing and reading over the past few days it would appear this vaccine is really a step in the direction of the original 'heard immunity' approach. Basically its not going away and at some point the majority of people will get some form of the virus.
The hope is that the vaccine will help stop the severity of the infection in the people that need it and after a few years it will get to the point where getting covid will be likened to catching a cold, you may get ill for a week but that'll be it. Obviously a few people will still die of it, as they do with all illnesses but nothing like we are seeing now
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Sick of hearing about second wave and 3rd wave -- there is no waves the virus never went away, people hid away and when they came out of hiding it was still there waiting.
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If the vaccine enables me to start travelling abroad again I'd certainly have it.
Being in the 7th group, I can't see it happening soon, though.
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Me's is desperate for it.
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As Fazersharp said save it for the elderly and vulnerable. Those of us young or healthy enough to not worry about it will be fine, just like the seasonal flu.
Except the evidence shows it's not quite like seasonal flu, with many young and healthy people being hit badly with some very worrying long term issues. Organ damage, loss of smell/taste, heart issues and other complications from the spread of tiny clots from the fall out. Many of which we're still coming to light and slowly being linked to Covid. Not to mention many young and healthy people from BAME background who have not faired well at all.
Got it. 41 years old, healthy, fit (did a full medical about 6 months ago and it's all been top notch).
With a flu - I'm back to full speed in about 2 weeks time tops. Often it's enough to just lie down for the weekend.
With this? Doctor says it's as mild as one could hope for. No lungs, or other organ damage/problems. Just recovering at home.
However kung flu is different:
- no sense of smell (or taste) for the last 10 days. None. Zilch. Can spray deodorant on my palm, put my nose against it, and smell nothing.
- exhaustion. I can't climb 20 stairs without breathing heavily. It's gotten better after the first 12 days, but still far from remotely normal. Felt sleepy all day even without a fever. Which is never the case with the ordinary flu, at least with me.
Some people get over it just like a flu - relatively quickly.
But most people I know, even the younger ones, took a lot longer to fully recover.
And, some, usually older, and/or overweight - had to go to a hospital, or just died.
As for the topic. I'm not sure.
If it really is a very dangerous disease, why not lock everyone up for a month, globally? With army and the police in the streets. That should stop it completely, no?
This way, it seems it's not considered all too dangerous. With measures getting looser, then a bit tighter, then looser again... changing from country to country. Month to month.
My thinking is - either do a full lockdown, or let everything loose, and who lives-lives. This is like the worst choice. Like cutting a rotten limb in three takes, instead of just one cut.
Economy suffers. That is - ordinary working people are loosing their jobs, apartments - having their lives put in danger.
Human relations suffer - with all the socializing and travelling bans.
And it seems this will last, until further ado. Poor countries won't get any vaccines for another year or so. And when they (we) do, I for one am not 100% certain of whether it is a good quality, well tested product (on that note, I'm not sure any Covid vaccine right now is properly tested, there just wasn't nearly enough time for all I know).
What I'm interested in is what happens with the next virus. And the one after that. Even this one will have society changed, probably not for the good. Imagine kids growing up in this, considering all this distancing as "normal"... How will the civil liberties change. How will they test who got vaccinated and will that decide whether you get to travel, and/or work... I expect this to be used as badly as possible by the corporations & governments.
Not that I'm generally anti-vaccine. Quite the contrary - I think it's one of the best things done by the medicine. Just - well designed, properly tested vaccines. Hell - I even avoid using products (software, or hardware) that haven't been field tested for at least a year.
Rant over. :)
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Not a rant at all but a great perspective. Bad luck you have had a kicking from this, I think you are the first on the forum. I heard the other day that they have found a link between certain dna characteristics and the severity of the symptoms to explain why some people suffer more than others.
Locking everyone for a month - year wont stop it as it will still be there waiting.
Its interesting that even you - who has had it bad are still not sure about the vaccine.
My thinking is - either do a full lockdown, or let everything loose, and who lives-lives. This is like the worst choice. Like cutting a rotten limb in three takes, instead of just one cut.
There is a middle ground which I think is being pursued in the UK which is a controlled release - let the virus loose at a controlled rate so that we can properly care for those struck by it badly while the rest catch it and move on.
To that end the vaccine does not stop you getting it nor stop you spreading it.
There are trials going on to see the roll of antibodies, I know someone who is on one such trial being regularly tested for the antibodies after having covid, after a few months the antibodies disappeared, but then someone in close contact to them got covid and their antibodies reappeared again. So when people argue that antibodies do not last - that is not the whole picture, there is also the roll of "T" cells that hardly ever get mentioned in the media.
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Not a rant at all but a great perspective. Bad luck you have had a kicking from this, I think you are the first on the forum. I heard the other day that they have found a link between certain dna characteristics and the severity of the symptoms to explain why some people suffer more than others.
Locking everyone for a month - year wont stop it as it will still be there waiting.
Its interesting that even you - who has had it bad are still not sure about the vaccine.
I've had it easy - no real pains, no need for hospital, and no (permanent, or temporaty) organ damage. Suppose it's as good (or nearly as good) as it gets. Apart from the 20 year olds who just "walk it off". :)
I'm primarily concerned for the old folks. That's my greatest fear.
As for the vaccine - there's always a tradeoff between rewards, and the (perceived) risks.
If I were a lot older, I probably would risk it.
Likewise, the younger one is, the less sense it makes risking some (long term?) health problems with a not nearly enough tested vaccine.
My mother is also skeptical. :) (Un)fortunately, we needn't concern ourselves with that dilemma for at least a year more, until Serbia gets vaccine. Even then, not sure what the priorities will be like - I doubt there would be enough vaccines for everyone.
Concerning the measures - our government started off strictly. Then loosened the regime. Then re-tightened, which resulted in civil unrest, large demonstrations, riots. And guys in power thought "oh, we might loose our grip and get a revolution. Fuck it, let them party all night, go to public happenings, and we'll deal with it somehow."
Now, in the late Autumn, measures are a little bit stricter: no working cafes on weekend, or late night, and obligatory masks in all public places (indoors).
Hospitals are packed - if you break a leg, and can't afford several average monthly pays for a private clinic, you're on your own.
Because of local, and foreign measures, tourism and entertainment industry workers are fucked. Which puts a lot of stress on already tight budget (a lot more unemployed people).
These people are no longer buying stuff, while using government help funds. And it is bound to spill over and hit other businesses who aren't directly affected with Covid crisis. I work with computers and bicycles - both blooming now, and I don't think those will be in trouble while the measures and crisis last, but later - who knows even for those.
Considering pulling all my funds from banks, since I remember them going bancrupt before (in the 90s).
Finally, the thing that shouldn't be disregarded is the social aspect. When there was a "threat of communism", people got a lot of liberties and good living standard for the working class. With the fall of the Berlin wall - "defeat of communism" and the introduction of Euro, average EU worker's wage purchase power was effectively cut in half in less than a decade. There was no longer need for making workers live too well, since there was no fear of them supporting a no longer existing communism.
Then came the "terrorist attacks" - and more control (surveillance) was introduced, at the cost of civil liberties (thorough exams and long procedure at airports, especially for us, from "suspicious countries", along with travel-prohibiting visa costs and procedures, and lots of legislation changes...).
Now we have Covid (and new viruses to come, it's just a matter of time). Very convenient to abuse. And I'm sure it will be abused. With a very good argument: one has to be responsible and not bring harm to others. It just boils down to where the line gets drawn, and if legislation gets put that way that the system can be (ab)used against any "nasty" individuals (home, or abroad).
I'd be surprised if things don't get, and stay, just a little bit more bad than before Covid in those terms (in addition to the economic crisis - expecting it to really hit in 2021).
There are trials going on to see the roll of antibodies, I know someone who is on one such trial being regularly tested for the antibodies after having covid, after a few months the antibodies disappeared, but then someone in close contact to them got covid and their antibodies reappeared again. So when people argue that antibodies do not last - that is not the whole picture, there is also the roll of "T" cells that hardly ever get mentioned in the media.
The disease is still relatively unknown. First they thought it's a respiratory virus, now they've figured out it attacks the whole system.
They are still not sure how long immunity lasts - either after a "natural" recovery, or a vaccine (correct me if I'm wrong).
Since I'm not what is called a "risky group", I won't rush to get the new vaccine.
For better or worse, there will probably not be an abundance of vaccines available, so skipping one's vaccination means just that someone else (more willing) will get to get it. So it is a sort of a win-win.
P.S.
The last, but not the least important - when I buy Ariel washing powder sold in Serbia (and made for this market), it's not the same quality as one bought in Germany. Ariel publicly admitted that (something like: "well, we know you wash at 90 degrees more, so no need for the powder to work as well at 40, or 60 degrees..." - bullshit corporate talk). Same goes for most other products. I'm not very confident that vaccine we get, even when one for the EU gets properly tested and improved, will be of the same quality. But that's a separate topic.
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Some good comments there Slaninar. Looking back, we appeared to have the virus on the run in summer, at which point the govt opened the gates and let it back out. Opens schools, universities, pubs etc. End result, they now cant get the cat back in the bag. Millions of people in the UK now ignore the rules every day, the streets are awash with discarded masks, and the poor bastards awaiting some sort of operation or non covid treatment may now die before they get the chance. Thier cause of death wont be recorded as due to Covid, but in reality, it will be.
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and the poor bastards awaiting some sort of operation or non covid treatment may now die before they get the chance. Thier cause of death wont be recorded as due to Covid, but in reality, it will be.
And then there are those that get ran over by a bus and because they had covid 28 days ago they go down as a covid death. Or as I have noticed the phrasing has lightly changed when it is read out in the news." xxxx deaths where covid 19 was mentioned on the death certificate"
Have we seen any reports in the UK news about an anaphylactic response that occurred in the states from someone without any previous allergic reactions. The UK news is ignoring it.
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And then there's those who die 29 days after a positive test, who aren't counted.
I still think the only accurate measure is excess deaths over and above the average.
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And then there's those who die 29 days after a positive test, who aren't counted.
I think they are also using a 60 day metric for other figures -weakly or monthly or something, need to check.
I still think the only accurate measure is excess deaths over and above the average.
Yes and that can only be properly done after a whole year. Maybe April.
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Yes and that can only be properly done after a whole year. Maybe April.
Why? Cumulatively since last winter surely. The seasonal graph month by month is pretty consistent, and the huge spike last April and May is pretty obvious. No compensating reduction since then. Unless, in the unlikely event, we are expecting a dramatic fall off in deaths between now and April.
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and the poor bastards awaiting some sort of operation or non covid treatment may now die before they get the chance. Thier cause of death wont be recorded as due to Covid, but in reality, it will be.
And then there are those that get ran over by a bus and because they had covid 28 days ago they go down as a covid death. Or as I have noticed the phrasing has lightly changed when it is read out in the news." xxxx deaths where covid 19 was mentioned on the death certificate"
Have we seen any reports in the UK news about an anaphylactic response that occurred in the states from someone without any previous allergic reactions. The UK news is ignoring it.
The 28 day ruling is farcical, but somewhat better than the 6 months that it was beforehand.
It's more about dying "with" or "of" that people really need to know.
My elderly neighbour had a heart attack at home in the earlier months but died with C-19, which they suggest he caught in hospital.
So what killed him, his age, the heart attack or C-19, or most likely all three? :look
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Yes and that can only be properly done after a whole year. Maybe April.
Why? Unless, in the unlikely event, we are expecting a dramatic fall off in deaths between now and April.
Yes that is exactly it. My feeling is that many of those that died in the early stages were going to die anyway perhaps in this winter which is why the death rate early on was high and I predict which is why the death rate for the whole year will show little if even no increase.
I also predict that any full year low death count will be put down to a vaccine and lock down.
On the vaccine I heard someone had done some math and at the current rate needing 2 shots it would take 2.5 years to vaccine the amount of people needed to suppress it to a point where it was not a threat.
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How about the newly found variant "faster spreading" --- faster how, I can find loads about "mutant faster spreading" but nothing that explains what it is that makes it faster. I was under the impression the current one was Fastest McFaster. It feels to me like it has been "found" to provide a reason for extra restrictions.
How can it spread faster? -the only thing I can think of is shorter incubation ?. Which would translate in it showing earlier and that person being able to isolate before they unwittingly spread it - resulting in less infections.
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How about the newly found variant "faster spreading" --- faster how, I can find loads about "mutant faster spreading" but nothing that explains what it is that makes it faster. I was under the impression the current one was Fastest McFaster. It feels to me like it has been "found" to provide a reason for extra restrictions.
How can it spread faster? -the only thing I can think of is shorter incubation ?. Which would translate in it showing earlier and that person being able to isolate before they unwittingly spread it - resulting in less infections.
Christmas shoppers is my guess.
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It feels to me like it has been "found" to provide a reason for extra restrictions.
So just like I said earlier.it looks like a perfect excuse to make a u turn on the Christmas plans. Its a get out of jail free u turn Card. It was also not looking good that a Christian event could go ahead when other religions could not.
Odd no other country in the word has the convenient varient.
Sikening the likes of kungsberg been pushing for tighter Christmas restrictions now phrasing her questions as peoples Christmas plans Torn up. At least we don't have to also put up with Beth rigby doing the same as she has been suspended for breaking lock down rules, also after calling for more lockdowns
Still no explanation of how it is 70% more transmittable, stays on surfaces longer ..?
Why Kent and London, isn't Kent the landing zone for the 6,000 dinghy visitors, many of which have gone on the run or otherwise disappeared, wouldnt London be a good place to disappear.
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Yes that is exactly it. My feeling is that many of those that died in the early stages were going to die anyway perhaps in this winter which is why the death rate early on was high and I predict which is why the death rate for the whole year will show little if even no increase.
And I predict you are very wrong.
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/press/press-releases/excess-deaths-ons-data-kings-fund-response (https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/press/press-releases/excess-deaths-ons-data-kings-fund-response)
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And then there's those who die 29 days after a positive test, who aren't counted.
I still think the only accurate measure is excess deaths over and above the average.
My talent of finding problems, and seeing things from all sides :)
In a special measures situation - stay at home, not nearly as much travelling, even curfews, masks...
the number of deaths may not increase. Fewer traffic accidents. Fewer people sick from flu and other diseases - because of all the extra measures, social distancing, staying at home etc.
Then, there's probably a larger number of heart related problems/deaths - from less moving, more stress etc.
So it's not that simple. :)
Statistics is a good tool, but one has to know how to use it, and be aware of all the caveats.
On topic: the good soul won't skip the queue. I think that's beautiful :)
https://www.businessinsider.com/pfizer-ceo-albert-bourla-wait-cut-line-covid-19-vaccine-2020-12 (https://www.businessinsider.com/pfizer-ceo-albert-bourla-wait-cut-line-covid-19-vaccine-2020-12)
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On topic: the good soul won't skip the queue. I think that's beautiful :)
https://www.businessinsider.com/pfizer-ceo-albert-bourla-wait-cut-line-covid-19-vaccine-2020-12 (https://www.businessinsider.com/pfizer-ceo-albert-bourla-wait-cut-line-covid-19-vaccine-2020-12)
Beautiful :eek I think its frightening. The CEO doesn't even trust his own vaccine. Just the same as every politician questioned if they will be seen to be vaccinated "yes yes absolutely I will take it yes yes but I am not yet in the roll out"
Do we know of any old duffers in the house of Lords that have taken it yet.
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On topic: the good soul won't skip the queue. I think that's beautiful :)
https://www.businessinsider.com/pfizer-ceo-albert-bourla-wait-cut-line-covid-19-vaccine-2020-12 (https://www.businessinsider.com/pfizer-ceo-albert-bourla-wait-cut-line-covid-19-vaccine-2020-12)
Beautiful :eek I think its frightening. The CEO doesn't even trust his own vaccine. Just the same as every politician questioned if they will be seen to be vaccinated "yes yes absolutely I will take it yes yes but I am not yet in the roll out"
Do we know of any old duffers in the house of Lords that have taken it yet.
I'm sure that the public health is his first priority - just like with most politicians. They're saving the doses for those who need it most.
"From the people, for the people!"
:rollin
It is strange though he couldn't just lie about having received the vaccine. Perhaps they fear it could backfire if it comes out, but still seems a bit strange.
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And then there's those who die 29 days after a positive test, who aren't counted.
I still think the only accurate measure is excess deaths over and above the average.
My talent of finding problems, and seeing things from all sides :)
In a special measures situation - stay at home, not nearly as much travelling, even curfews, masks...
the number of deaths may not increase. Fewer traffic accidents. Fewer people sick from flu and other diseases - because of all the extra measures, social distancing, staying at home etc.
Then, there's probably a larger number of heart related problems/deaths - from less moving, more stress etc.
Yes from looking at mtreads, next -slide - please. it shows far more excess deaths from non covid than covid.
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Yes from looking at mtreads, next -slide - please. it shows far more excess deaths from non covid than covid.
Well of course it does. Far more people are still dying of 'ordinary' things. But the total excess deaths from everything will be much higher over the 12 months, and the cause of the excess is Covid-19, either directly or indirectly. Unless you can come up with another reason?
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Biden gets the vaccine live on TV. Its good but he hardly needs to worry about any possible long term effects. We need to see our politicians doing the same.
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Can one get too paranoid?
"Russian scientist working on COVID-19 vaccine plummets to death in St. Petersburg"
https://nypost.com/2020/12/20/russian-scientist-working-on-covid-19-vaccine-plummets-to-death/
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I predict which is why the death rate for the whole year will show little if even no increase.
81,000 excess deaths so far
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55411323 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55411323)
So if nobody dies of anything at all until May, or we get loads of Lazarus moments, your prediction will be spot on ;)
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I predict which is why the death rate for the whole year will show little if even no increase.
81,000 excess deaths so far
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55411323 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55411323)
So if nobody dies of anything at all until May, or we get loads of Lazarus moments, your prediction will be spot on ;)
Its a worry. 50k Covid deaths, +30k from people who had ops/treatment etc cancelled. And as folk are postponing trips to the docs, the backlog will worsen, and its not yet the end of December. Re-opening schools and universities was a massive error of judgement
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The excess deaths counting goalposts have moved since the start of the pandemic because at the start it was not even considered there would be secondary deaths from cancelled oops and missed appointments /check ups. My point about little or no excess deaths is only about those directly from covid - just as was the case in the early stage when we started counting but now all deaths over the averages are being tallied up with corona.
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But as you've pointed out, whether a death is caused by Covid-19 or not is not straightforward.
Whereas excess deaths is very precise and is a fact. The goalposts haven't moved and are still at the end of the pitch.
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On the upside at least nobody has died of old age since March. :)
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On the upside at least nobody has died of old age since March. :)
Good pointJust checked when I can expect to get my vaccine if I want it, I am number 27,700,000 in the queue.
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On the upside at least nobody has died of old age since March. :)
Good pointJust checked when I can expect to get my vaccine if I want it, I am number 27,700,000 in the queue.
I'm down for about early June next year.
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On the upside at least nobody has died of old age since March.
I'm no doctor (I never really bothered), but as far as I was aware, nobody ever dies of 'old age'.
They die because one or more vital organs stops working. Covid-19 does the same. It just hastens it a bit :o
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On the upside at least nobody has died of old age since March.
I'm no doctor (I never really bothered), but as far as I was aware, nobody ever dies of 'old age'.
They die because one or more vital organs stops working. Covid-19 does the same. It just hastens it a bit :o
Oh, c'mon! Using that logic, we could argue that no one dies of AIDS, but of other diseases (after AIDS destroys their immune system). :)
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On the upside at least nobody has died of old age since March.
I'm no doctor (I never really bothered), but as far as I was aware, nobody ever dies of 'old age'.
They die because one or more vital organs stops working. Covid-19 does the same. It just hastens it a bit :o
Blimey, i know you're not a doctor, but have you ever heard of a sense of humour transplant?
It was a joke. :groan
I know you don't hear them often at all any more as a certain type of people are trying to suck the life out of anyone who attempts humour these days. :\
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Blimey, i know you're not a doctor, but have you ever heard of a sense of humour transplant?It was a joke. I know you don't hear them often at all any more as a certain type of people are trying to suck the life out of anyone who attempts humour these days.
My reply was a joke too, but clearly only YamFazFan would have got it. Where is he when you need him? :rolleyes
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Blimey, i know you're not a doctor, but have you ever heard of a sense of humour transplant?It was a joke. I know you don't hear them often at all any more as a certain type of people are trying to suck the life out of anyone who attempts humour these days.
My reply was a joke too, but clearly only YamFazFan would have got it. Where is he when you need him? :rolleyes
:rollin
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/91/76/b8/9176b8d7a772b13e188ace6ac248f088.jpg)
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I wonder what will happen when the Oxford one cones on line, £3 a pop - keeps in the fridge. No one will want to bother any more with the expensive Pfizer faff. I suspect they (pfizer )know this already and was an incentive in getting to the market first.
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I noticed today on the BBC weather forecast that they have dropped the words New Years eve and New years day and they are just referring to "Thursday and Friday".
Who told them to do that.
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I noticed today on the BBC weather forecast that they have dropped the words New Years eve and New years day and they are just referring to "Thursday and Friday". Who told them to do that.
They're renaming them 'Groundhog Eve' and 'Groundhog Day' because we are stuck in 2020 forever :'(
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I noticed today on the BBC weather forecast that they have dropped the words New Years eve and New years day and they are just referring to "Thursday and Friday".
I've just watched the forecast and it says "Thursday" and "Friday" at the bottom of the screen, but there's a graphic saying "New Year's Eve" and "New Years's Day" at the top of the screen.
Personally I like that because it means I don't have to check the calendar to see what day of the week they're actually talking about!
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LOCKDOWN :\
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LOCKDOWN :\
Surely it cannot be called a Lockdown if people still have to go into work?
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There's hardly any difference between tier 4 and this. Tier 4 that most were in anyway.
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The main reason for the recent rise in Positive cases is because of the unmasked Xmas shoppers, which was then why London was rightly closed down.
But your Tiers 1 to 3 still had the chance to go out for the Boxing Day sales as well. Add those to the Xmas Day family free for all people, and lo and behold, this week we're getting record numbers of new Positive cases. :rolleyes
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There's hardly any difference between tier 4 and this. Tier 4 that most were in anyway.
I have said since T4 was introduced that it was basically the same as lockdown 1
The main difference is the way it is being promoted. T4 has always had the "stay at home" element but people ignored it. Now it will be law allowing fines to be issued if you do not have a reasonable excuse for being outside and schools shut. Other than that, it is T4 really.
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Why are the news channels giving Capitan Hindsight prime time TV to broadcast "His reply" to the Prime-ministers public announcement. It just sounded like an election broadcast, free of charge.
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Why are the news channels giving Capitan Hindsight prime time TV to broadcast "His reply" to the Prime-ministers public announcement. It just sounded like an election broadcast, free of charge.
Because Captain Lack of Foresight keeps doing U turns and has no strategy at all?
Apparently it's all the fault of this new chap 'Mutant Strain'.
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Oh come on!
It's not as if they had known for at least three weeks that there was a more infectious strain of the virus going around and they had been warned by scientists for a fortnight that insisting schools were safe and that children should go back would be a really bad idea, so it came as a total surprise to them and they had to change their minds about threatening schools with legal action for not opening just 24 hours before and, instead, had tell them all to close... :rolleyes
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Oh come on!
It's not as if they had known for at least three weeks that there was a more infectious strain of the virus going around and they had been warned by scientists for a fortnight that insisting schools were safe and that children should go back would be a really bad idea, so it came as a total surprise to them and they had to change their minds about threatening schools with legal action for not opening just 24 hours before and, instead, had tell them all to close... :rolleyes
Sounds like a conspiracy. Are you suggesting that the gov are purposefully trying to spread covid through the Schools.
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Sounds like a conspiracy.
No, sounds like incompetence, dithering, vacillation and (wilful) ignorance.
Oh, and I'll treat your Straw Man argument follow up with the contempt it deserves.
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Sounds like a conspiracy.
No, sounds like incompetence, dithering, vacillation and (wilful) ignorance.
Oh, and I'll treat your Straw Man argument follow up with the contempt it deserves.
Its not a straw man or anything else.I had to google "vacillation" :lol If as you say they knew for at least 3 weeks and the scientists were also telling them and yet they still wanted to carry on opening the Schools. I don't believe even they could be that incompetent so the only thing left is purposefully trying to spread covid.
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Why are the news channels giving Capitan Hindsight prime time TV to broadcast "His reply" to the Prime-ministers public announcement. It just sounded like an election broadcast, free of charge.
Because Captain Lack of Foresight keeps doing U turns and has no strategy at all?
Apparently it's all the fault of this new chap 'Mutant Strain'.
So that sounds like you are saying the new strain does not exist and was made up as a excuse to change Christmas plans so that they would not be accused of "another U turn".
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So that sounds like you are saying the new strain does not exist and was made up as a excuse to change Christmas plans so that they would not be accused of "another U turn".
Nope. What I'm saying is that the government is looking for any scapegoat to cover up its own incompetence.
Of course the new strain is real. The scientists told them about it weeks ago. Just when the government was urging children back to school.
Johnson doesn't like giving out bad news, and nothing is ever his fault.
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So that sounds like you are saying the new strain does not exist and was made up as a excuse to change Christmas plans so that they would not be accused of "another U turn".
Nope. What I'm saying is that the government is looking for any scapegoat to cover up its own incompetence.
Of course the new strain is real. The scientists told them about it weeks ago. Just when the government was urging children back to school.
Johnson doesn't like giving out bad news, and nothing is ever his fault.
Do you trust the Government.
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Do you trust the Government
Do you?
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Do you trust the Government
Do you?
No
Your turn.
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Ok we all know the government regardless of who/which party is in charge are a bunch of lying bastards, and leave it at that,
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NoYour turn.
Very occasionally.
I'm more likely to trust science though.
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Mother should I trust the Government, Pink Floyd (Mother)
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NoYour turn.
I'm more likely to trust science though.
Which ones
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The latest from Jonathan Pie:
(Warning, contains lots of swearing...!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zx3DFXqxa8&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zx3DFXqxa8&feature=youtu.be)
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If as you say they knew for at least 3 weeks and the scientists were also telling them and yet they still wanted to carry on opening the Schools. I don't believe even they could be that incompetent so the only thing left is purposefully trying to spread covid.
I think they're just too stupid and arrogant to believe what they're being told.
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Which ones
Facts. Not politicians' manipulation of them.
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I think they're just too stupid and arrogant to believe what they're being told.
:agree and they're just trying to avoid running into their own mess, years of cuts etc, oh and do it as cheap as possible while giving their mates as much as possible, lets not forget. Somehow I think, they've also failed on the latter now :lol :lol :lol
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Just when you think the UK is fucked up....... the USA goes one better :eek
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Just when you think the UK is fucked up....... the USA goes one better :eek
That's what you would of seen here if Brexit was stolen after it was voted for.
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That's what you would of seen here if Brexit was stolen after it was voted for.
Ah, you mean like when Nigel Farage called for his March on London which 27 people turned up for... :rollin
Anyway, this is off topic for a discussion of the COVID vaccine, so I'll leave it here.
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Got mine saturday morning, 1st part anyway. :'(
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Got mine saturday morning, 1st part anyway. :'(
That's great news. I just hope they don't go the same way with vaccine roll out as they did with test and trace, that being putting capacity over actual delivery. Having a 1000 or 1000's of vaccine sites with trained personal is pointless unless you've actually got the stuff to put in the syringe and a guaranteed supply for further doses required. I've also read there's a world shortage of viles the vaccine goes in, it's also worth mentioning about all the others items required to manufacture. The world has got to ramp up to unpresented levels of production something we in the UK aren't scaled for and will take time, months not weeks or we stop making something else! We make very little of our own pharma these days most is made in Eastern Europe, India or the Far East, to max profit.
My other concern is they'll go hell for leather to get the numbers, e.g. extending the interval between doses from 28 days to 12 wks, then won't have enough vaccine supply to hit the 12 wk second dose. Don't get me wrong the former makes sense based on the science they'll telling us, but only if you've got guaranteed supply. What happens if you don't get the second in 12, 13, 14wks or whatever, do you have to start from scratch or do you just get reduced protection. My guess is it's reduced but to what and if that is low it could render it much less effective? So far no one from the government is confirming actual supply figures just it will ramp up to pie in the sky numbers, where have we heard that before :rolleyes
Personally, I think we're are on track for yet another over promise, under deliver situation and yet another gamble, hope I'm wrong. I'm well down the list, so this situation will have little impact on me personally, but those in the at risk groups it could be serious, as it's their second dose that's going to be used to hit the bigger initial numbers!
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I just hope they don't go the same way with vaccine roll out as they did with test and trace, that being putting capacity over actual delivery. Having a 1000 or 1000's of vaccine sites with trained personal is pointless unless you've actually got the stuff to put in the syringe and a guaranteed supply for further doses required.
I have a friend who's a Pharmacist and she said that, despite their experience in giving the Flu Jab every year, the Government have basically ignored them for giving the Covid Jab!
Meanwhile, the family of "Vaccines Minister" Nadhim Zahawi have Set up a medical company (https://bylinetimes.com/2021/01/04/vaccine-minister-nadhim-zahawi-family-set-up-medical-company/)... :rolleyes
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My guess is it's reduced but to what and if that is low it could render it much less effective? So far no one from the government is confirming actual supply figures just it will ramp up to pie in the sky numbers, where have we heard that before
Something else - it looks like the jabs do not stop you getting or stop you transmitting it. I see the questions have been asked a few times direct to Hancock and the way he skips over them looks suspicious to me, like he knows they don't work on that basis but just says there is not enough data and quickly moves on. Telling the public that would destroy any confidence in the vax.
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Meanwhile, the family of "Vaccines Minister" Nadhim Zahawi have Set up a medical company (https://bylinetimes.com/2021/01/04/vaccine-minister-nadhim-zahawi-family-set-up-medical-company/)... :rolleyes
Are we surprised, their mates noses troff springs to mind :evil
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My guess is it's reduced but to what and if that is low it could render it much less effective? So far no one from the government is confirming actual supply figures just it will ramp up to pie in the sky numbers, where have we heard that before
Something else - it looks like the jabs do not stop you getting or stop you transmitting it. I see the questions have been asked a few times direct to Hancock and the way he skips over them looks suspicious to me, like he knows they don't work on that basis but just says there is not enough data and quickly moves on. Telling the public that would destroy any confidence in the vax.
As it is a respiratory disease, you breathe it in an out. If you have the vaccine, you can still have the virus in your airway due to recently breathing it in and therefore still breathe it out before it tries to infect you. You wont get infected because of the vaccine but you can still spread it about. Common sense really, the vaccine does not give you a shield to stop you breathing it in.
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Something else - it looks like the jabs do not stop you getting or stop you transmitting it. I see the questions have been asked a few times direct to Hancock and the way he skips over them looks suspicious to me, like he knows they don't work on that basis but just says there is not enough data and quickly moves on. Telling the public that would destroy any confidence in the vax.
This is not a concern for me, most vaccines stop transmission by killing the virus within our bodies, before it takes hold and we become infectious, there's no reason to think this won't either, it's just too soon to tell. Handcock isn't (for once) telling lies or destroying confidence they simply don't know at present no one does, there isn't any data to pass on as yet. Even if they don't a vaccinated individual will get greatly reduced symptoms, in the case of Covid it should prevent death and hospitalisation, a bad cold or non fatal flu at worst, I've no doubt there will still be deaths but small, vaccines aren't cures. The NHS can cope with these worse cases and normal life as it was can return for the vast majority of us.
As with all viruses they mutate (as Covid has) but this can be mitigated against as they do with flu, by adjusting the vaccine to suit strains/variants. By high uptake of the vaccine we achieve what's referred to as 'herd immunity' which prevents mass infections.
The issue here is can the government, deliver what they've said i.e. 13 million vaccinations of the most vulnerable and frontline workers by mid Feb and the over 50's and under 50's vulnerable by Easter ish that's approx 17 million, 30 million in total, with the rest 23 million ish not including under 16s over to follow months achieving herd immunity late summer/autumn ish.
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Something else - it looks like the jabs do not stop you getting or stop you transmitting it. I see the questions have been asked a few times direct to Hancock and the way he skips over them looks suspicious to me, like he knows they don't work on that basis but just says there is not enough data and quickly moves on. Telling the public that would destroy any confidence in the vax.
This is not a concern for me, most vaccines stop transmission by killing the virus within our bodies, before it takes hold and we become infectious, there's no reason to think this won't either, it's just too soon to tell. Handcock isn't (for once) telling lies or destroying confidence they simply don't know at present no one does, there isn't any data to pass on as yet. Even if they don't a vaccinated individual will get greatly reduced symptoms, in the case of Covid it should prevent death and hospitalisation, a bad cold or non fatal flu at worst, I've no doubt there will still be deaths but small, vaccines aren't cures. The NHS can cope with these worse cases and normal life as it was can return for the vast majority of us.
As with all viruses they mutate (as Covid has) but this can be mitigated against as they do with flu, by adjusting the vaccine to suit strains/variants. By high uptake of the vaccine we achieve what's referred to as 'herd immunity' which prevents mass infections.
The issue here is can the government, deliver what they've said i.e. 13 million vaccinations of the most vulnerable and frontline workers by mid Feb and the over 50's and under 50's vulnerable by Easter ish that's approx 17 million, 30 million in total, with the rest 23 million ish not including under 16s over to follow months achieving herd immunity late summer/autumn ish.
I had a go at the vaccine calculator which gives you a rough guide as to when you can expect the invite for a jab.
I'm 50 now, and when I checked last week the date was early June, but checked again yesterday and it was mid July to October.
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As it is a respiratory disease, you breathe it in an out. If you have the vaccine, you can still have the virus in your airway due to recently breathing it in and therefore still breathe it out before it tries to infect you. You wont get infected because of the vaccine but you can still spread it about. Common sense really.
You got that wrong im afraid --- having the vax but still spreading it by breathing it in and then out to others but the vax stopping you getting it yourself :rollin
You get the vax and as far as we know you can still get the virus but as your immune system already knows what to do ( thanks to the vax ) it then can kick in before the viral load gets big enough tooverwhelm your system and so hopefully saving lives. As you still have the virus with the vax - the common sense bit is that you can still pass it on. Hancock avoids or flips over these questions - bats it off as "not enough data" - I say there is and they know.Which is why they are saying that you still have to wear a mask and continue all the current procedures after you have the jab.
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I had a go at the vaccine calculator which gives you a rough guide as to when you can expect the invite for a jab.
I'm 50 now, and when I checked last week the date was early June, but checked again yesterday and it was mid July to October.
If I get my binoculars out and look back I can see you in the queue as you are 1 million behind me.
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You got that wrong im afraid --- having the vax but still spreading it by breathing it in and then out to others but the vax stopping you getting it yourself You get the vax and as far as we know you can still get the virus but as your immune system already knows what to do ( thanks to the vax ) it then can kick in before the viral load gets big enough tooverwhelm your system and so hopefully saving lives. As you still have the virus with the vax - the common sense bit is that you can still pass it on. Hancock avoids or flips over these questions - bats it off as "not enough data" - I say there is and they know.Which is why they are saying that you still have to wear a mask and continue all the current procedures after you have the jab
Well sort of. The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine is a harmless virus which has been genetically modified to carry the protein from Covid-19 (not the virus itself) which enables the virus to attack healthy cells. Your antibodies are then primed to destroy the protein second time around. As said, the body recognises the protein if and when your body receives the virus, and stops the protein attaching the virus to your healthy cells, and you becoming infected. That's the science.
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You got that wrong im afraid --- having the vax but still spreading it by breathing it in and then out to others but the vax stopping you getting it yourself :rollin
You know what I mean though :pokefun
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You got that wrong im afraid --- having the vax but still spreading it by breathing it in and then out to others but the vax stopping you getting it yourself :rollin
You know what I mean though :pokefun
:lol
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How come our MP's and MSP's have been given priority status for Covid 19 Vaccinations.
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How come our MP's and MSP's have been given priority status for Covid 19 Vaccinations.
Personally I would like to see them all have it live on TV.
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Personally I would like to see them all have it live on TV.
Why?
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Why?
If they told us to jump of a bridge would we do it without them demonstrating it was safe first? :pokefun
Seriously though, it would be good PR for the vaccine
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How come our MP's and MSP's have been given priority status for Covid 19 Vaccinations.
Personally I would like to see them all have it live on TV.
I dont think that would help anything personally. The people tbat already want the vaccine will get it and the people that don't for normal reasons won't. The other silver foil hatted conspiracy nut jobs will still come up with outlandish claims and make up any old tripe they can to justify it. They would just say its a placebo injection, that body doubles were being used or it was all film trickery 🤷♂️
Not to mention the majority of people that I have spoke too who do not wish to get the jab are people that don't believe or trust in the government anyway.
If they were going to try and go to down that route then getting some idiot like Bieber or maybe a Footballer to have it live on TV would convince millions more than Boris ever could
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If they told us to jump of a bridge would we do it without them demonstrating it was safe first? :pokefun
I'm not a sheep, I can make up my own mind. I don't need to follow them, when you look at them, I wouldn't follow them anywhere, if you would or need to that's your choice :pokefun
Seriously though, it would be good PR for the vaccine
It's just another vaccine, like the many others we've all had over the years. When smallpox, polo, BCG etc where rolled out did you, your parents or the masses question it and ask for others to go first? All this fear is just social media bolloc%% fake/disinformation put out by total idiots with too much time on their hands. These morons, both anti vax and conspiracy theory twats have got way too much influence, over social media sheep. Examples of which we've seen outside hospitals and storming the US Congress in recent days, let's not even go there with Brexit crap.
I for one don't need PR or any of the current government leading me in any direction. I don't use or follow social media, it's rapidly becoming utterly counter productive. Various media watchdogs put figures of anywhere between 20 - 60% depending on subject, of fake or disinformation being circulated on social media platforms, the sooner it's regulated or better still turned off the better ;)
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If they were going to try and go to down that route then getting some idiot like Bieber or maybe a Footballer to have it live on TV would convince millions more than Boris ever could
:agree Sadly that's what social media and celeb TV world has created, many would rather listen and follow a singer or soap actor than a scientist :rollin :rollin :rollin
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People seem to forget that the flu jab is modified EVERY year to try and cope with the most recent strains, so it is hardly tested for long periods of time at all.
Which is why some years you might get the odd very minor side effect, but for most years you don't.
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People seem to forget that the flu jab is modified EVERY year to try and cope with the most recent strains, so it is hardly tested for long periods of time at all.
Which is why some years you might get the odd very minor side effect, but for most years you don't.
:agree ;)
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If they told us to jump of a bridge would we do it without them demonstrating it was safe first? :pokefun
:thumbup
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Had my vaccine part one this morning,the place was packed but not like a sardine can ,it was all well organised with volunteers doing the 10,15 mins wait after in a marquee ,considering the amount of people there it was pretty slick IMO.No after effects as yet. :thumbup
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Had a phone call Wed teatime asking if I would like the vaccine Thurs afternoon at a local health centre. They also asked my wife if she would like the vaccine at the same time. We both said yes asI am classed as clinically extremely vulnerable and my wife has had serious health issues. We both turned up and all went smoothly. We just had to wait for 15 mins afterwards to make sure we had no adverse reaction to the vaccine. Apart from a slight bruise at injection site we are both fine (so far).
My view is that we owe our lives to the skills of men and women working in the NHS and the pharmaceutical industry-I wouldn't be alive to write this without them. Yes it's a pain not being able to do things we used to take for granted but if we all do our bit we can come out the other side. We would rather suffer the inconveniences of the present lockdown than be an unnecessary burden on the health service when they are faced with an unprecedented emergency.
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Pleased for you both Dave and Coffee.Any side effects at all as yet
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No side effects yet apart from the usual minor bruising at injection site. It looks as though the UK is doing comparatively well with the vaccination program when looking at how some other so-called advanced countries are performing.
However we don't have any false sense of security and will continue with our shielding precautions-the vaccine is one tool in the fight against the virus.
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Pleased for you both Dave and Coffee.Any side effects at all as yet
There won't be, and even if there was that doesn't in the slightest mean that those effects would apply to you as well.
Same as when you get medicine prescribed by a doctor that comes with a leaflet pointing out the vast "possible" side effects, which basically means that some poor sod around the world had an adverse reaction and to avoid prosecution they have to list it as a precautionary measure.
I had to take some antibiotics two weeks ago that i don't think i've ever had before, and the long list of side effects made absolutely terrible reading to the point where i questioned even wanting to consume them, but as per usual they were totally fine.
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I didn't mean "side effects" as such like the question implies, but just anything really.
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Pleased for you both Dave and Coffee.Any side effects at all as yet
There won't be, and even if there was that doesn't in the slightest mean that those effects would apply to you as well.
Same as when you get medicine prescribed by a doctor that comes with a leaflet pointing out the vast "possible" side effects, which basically means that some poor sod around the world had an adverse reaction and to avoid prosecution they have to list it as a precautionary measure.
I had to take some antibiotics two weeks ago that i don't think i've ever had before, and the long list of side effects made absolutely terrible reading to the point where i questioned even wanting to consume them, but as per usual they were totally fine.
Its luck of the draw really, same as with any vaccine. My wife for example gets the flu jab every year (as she's asthmatic and works in the hospital) and has done for the past 10 years or so. Now out of those 10 jabs 9 have been completely fine but 1 of them caused adverse effects and put her in hospital for 4 days on a respirator. Didnt stop her getting it again but as with most of these things there is always a risk.
I know a few people that have had the vaccine and felt quite ill for 24-48hrs after but also plenty that haven't had any reaction at all.
Its just one of those things 🤷♂️
What i want to know is whether this is going to be a yearly jab like the other flu one. Are we going to be going forward with the elderly etc getting 2 jabs every winter instead of one? I reckon there's a good chance that's going to be the case but hopefully we can go know as normal every year instead of locking down and hiding all winter
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What i want to know is whether this is going to be a yearly jab like the other flu one. Are we going to be going forward with the elderly etc getting 2 jabs every winter instead of one? I reckon there's a good chance that's going to be the case but hopefully we can go know as normal every year instead of locking down and hiding all winter
No one seems to be talking about this but my feeling is that yes that is what will happen. It will be here for ever.
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Flu and Covid vaccines are very different beasts. Flu vaccines are based on a live part of the real virus all be it very small part, Covid isn't completely different, no live virus, reactions should and thus far are proving to be very mild or nothing.
There's always going to be someone who reacts to something, food e.g. nuts, chemical etc etc, nowadays there's people who're elegiac to fresh air!
It's all being completely over played :rolleyes
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Getting a bit fed up with people ringing the radio and saying "why is it safe for me to ---" just heard another one an estate agent. "Why is it safe for me to visit 5 houses a day but I cant visit my Mum and Dad". And they then start with the "everything should be locked down" It then every time emerges that they live with a vulnerable person or something. They want everything shut down to suit them.
What I think we have now is a balance but perhaps we also need some sort of voluntary furlough until their vulnerable person has had the vaccine.
Another one "why can I meet my Mum in a park but not in a garden" --- Cause it starts in the garden, next its, a cup of tea then its needing the loo then its actually cold - lets just sit inside. - That's why.
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Flu and Covid vaccines are very different beasts. Flu vaccines are based on a live part of the real virus all be it very small part, Covid isn't completely different, no live virus, reactions should and thus far are proving to be very mild or nothing.
There's always going to be someone who reacts to something, food e.g. nuts, chemical etc etc, nowadays there's people who're elegiac to fresh air!
It's all being completely over played :rolleyes
Live virus vaccines are normally given to youngsters from early age into their teens, mainly by using a nasal spray.
The standard flu jabs given by needle are deactivated.
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The standard flu jabs given by needle are deactivated.
No, they're live just not, the complete strand, but parts of real virus as are most types of vaccine.
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The standard flu jabs given by needle are deactivated.
No, they're live just not, the complete strand, but parts of real virus as are most types of vaccine.
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Thanks for that I stand corrected :)
I confused this statement that they contain "inactivated (killed) viruses, or with only a single protein from the flu virus." missed the bit about killed ;)
Although it's still an element from the virus, which was the point I was trying to make ;) Where as the Covid isn't just the outer spike, or mRNA which copies the DNA or something along those lines. Which delivers genetic code - or directions - that instructs the body to create a copy of the Covid-19 virus protein, which prompts an immune response.
All very clever stuff and the first major vaccine of it's type I believe :)
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Moron - Mark Easton of the BBC last nights press conference. A member of the public asked "why when this wave is worse than the last why is the lockdown less strict". Then when it was Mark Easton's turn he asked the same Focing question :rolleyes What a waste of time - didn't he have a back up question ready incase of that happening.
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Moron - Mark Easton of the BBC last nights press conference. A member of the public asked "why when this wave is worse than the last why is the lockdown less strict". Then when it was Mark Easton's turn he asked the same Focing question :rolleyes What a waste of time - didn't he have a back up question ready incase of that happening.
We have seen that all the way through the pandemic. The minister (or whoever) spends 10 minutes giving details of why x is happening and then a reporter that just wants their 5 mins of fame to justify their wages asks the question again.
The ones that wind me up are the ministers who when asked if the number has gone up or down since yesterday (or any other feccin question) spend 5 minutes blustering on about why the government has done a great job or the fact the numbers today are not comparable with the numbers during the Spanish flu or some other bollix ratehr than a straight forward one/two word answer to the question.
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The ones that wind me up are the ministers who when asked if the number has gone up or down since yesterday (or any other feccin question) spend 5 minutes blustering on about why the government has done a great job or the fact the numbers today are not comparable with the numbers during the Spanish flu or some other bollix ratehr than a straight forward one/two word answer to the question.
:agree :)
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Moron - Mark Easton of the BBC last nights press conference. A member of the public asked "why when this wave is worse than the last why is the lockdown less strict". Then when it was Mark Easton's turn he asked the same Focing question :rolleyes What a waste of time - didn't he have a back up question ready incase of that happening.
We have seen that all the way through the pandemic. The minister (or whoever) spends 10 minutes giving details of why x is happening and then a reporter that just wants their 5 mins of fame to justify their wages asks the question again.
The ones that wind me up are the ministers who when asked if the number has gone up or down since yesterday (or any other feccin question) spend 5 minutes blustering on about why the government has done a great job or the fact the numbers today are not comparable with the numbers during the Spanish flu or some other bollix ratehr than a straight forward one/two word answer to the question.
Generally, its the same questions regurgitated day after day
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Perhaps the nation was not as prepared as it could have been. Extract from the National Risk Register, not updated since 2017. I was searching for the parameters that trigger a State of Emergency
It is difficult to forecast the spread and impact of a new flu strain or disease until it starts
circulating. However, consequences may include:
• for pandemic flu:
o up to 50% of the UK population experiencing symptoms, potentially leading to
between 20,000 and 750,000 fatalities and high levels of absence from work.
• for emerging infectious diseases:
o several thousand people experiencing symptoms, potentially leading to up to 100
fatalities.
• disruption to essential services, particularly health and education; and
• economic disruption, including disruption to business and tourism.
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Interesting. Someone close to me went for their vax today and was unable to have it because in the past they have had a reaction to something. This was the pzifer biontec one but they were made an appointment on the spot for tomorrow for the astrozenaca Oxford Uni one.
They were told that if you have ever had any reaction to anything known or unknown then they will not give you the pzifer one.
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I guess I will end up the Viagra based one then being allergic to
mould penicillin
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I guess I will end up the Viagra based one then being allergic to mould penicillin
You mean end up with the astrozenica Oxford one.
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Every step taken is a reaction, the nation needs to be proactive to get this shit under control. Declare a State of Emergency, have all of the armed forces/police etc co-ordinated in a response to control the spread, curfews, close all foreign travel, make it illegal to be in a shop without a mask on, water cannon for those that congregate to protest their loss rights/anti maskers etc, then let them overwinter in a camp somewhere. Or we'll be in the shite for many more months yet, likely even longer
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Every step taken is a reaction, the nation needs to be proactive to get this shit under control. Declare a State of Emergency, have all of the armed forces/police etc co-ordinated in a response to control the spread, curfews, close all foreign travel, make it illegal to be in a shop without a mask on, water cannon for those that congregate to protest their loss rights/anti maskers etc, then let them overwinter in a camp somewhere. Or we'll be in the shite for many more months yet, likely even longer
Let me guess -- you are retired.
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Every step taken is a reaction, the nation needs to be proactive to get this shit under control. Declare a State of Emergency, have all of the armed forces/police etc co-ordinated in a response to control the spread, curfews, close all foreign travel, make it illegal to be in a shop without a mask on, water cannon for those that congregate to protest their loss rights/anti maskers etc, then let them overwinter in a camp somewhere. Or we'll be in the shite for many more months yet, likely even longer
Let me guess -- you are retired.
Correct. After 49 years hard graft, fully paid up member of the One Foot In The Grave club
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Interesting. Someone close to me went for their vax today and was unable to have it because in the past they have had a reaction to something. This was the pzifer biontec one but they were made an appointment on the spot for tomorrow for the astrozenaca Oxford Uni one.
They were told that if you have ever had any reaction to anything known or unknown then they will not give you the pzifer one.
Bit more info?
Reaction to what, with what, in the past?
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Interesting. Someone close to me went for their vax today and was unable to have it because in the past they have had a reaction to something. This was the pzifer biontec one but they were made an appointment on the spot for tomorrow for the astrozenaca Oxford Uni one.
They were told that if you have ever had any reaction to anything known or unknown then they will not give you the pzifer one.
Bit more info?
Reaction to what, with what, in the past?
Sorry for the delay in replying but I got banned from the forum
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The issue was a reaction to a commonly used drug in hospital and happened over 25 years ago and never since.They turned up for the oxford one and was asked the same questions and upon telling them a doctor was called who said the place giving the pfzier one maybe were just being a little over cautious but was advised to wait 15 mins after the jab. No one else was seen waiting
The persons workmates are also having the jab and 60% of them have been off work with illness after receiving the jab. It was thought these people perhaps were swinging the lead for some time off.
After receiving the jab the person in question was told you WILL need ibrufen and paracetamol but were totally fine - until 16 hours later - high fever, muscle and joint pain like never experienced before even with flu. So bad infact that they thought they actually had covid and went for a test - came back negative.
Consequently they have been off work for 7 days. The other work mates suffering have had symptoms including projectile vomit, rash, collapsing after returning to work.
They use a sickness form that already has covid listed as a sickness that will not go against their sickness record and now sickness after the jab has also been added to the list. Also the workplace has stepped in to stop too many having the jab at the same time because they are struggling with staffing because of sickness after receiving it.
These workmates are all under 60 years old.
I have some elderly relatives who have recently received the jab and were totally fine.
If you have had covid in the last 90 days they do not give it to you. They have been told this is because you are more likely to have a reaction to the jab.
They are thinking that perhaps the reason the 60% of workmates are suffering after effects is because they have actually had covid asymptomaticly in the past. And the person in question is convinced that they had covid back in February as they had a long illness with all the covid symptoms.
What gets me is where is all of this in the news, all you hear and are shown is happy smiling OAP's
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Every step taken is a reaction, the nation needs to be proactive to get this shit under control. Declare a State of Emergency, have all of the armed forces/police etc co-ordinated in a response to control the spread, curfews, close all foreign travel, make it illegal to be in a shop without a mask on, water cannon for those that congregate to protest their loss rights/anti maskers etc, then let them overwinter in a camp somewhere. Or we'll be in the shite for many more months yet, likely even longer
Water cannons are outlawed on the streets of the UK. Hence why we don't have any anymore.
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The issue was a reaction to a commonly used drug in hospital and happened over 25 years ago and never since.The turned up for the oxford one and was asked the same questions and upon telling them a doctor was called who said the place giving the pfzier one maybe were just being a little over cautious but was advised to wait 15 mins after the jab.
The persons workmates are having the jab and 60% of them have been off work with illness after receiving the jab. It was thought these people perhaps were swinging the lead for some time off.
After receiving the jab they were told you WILL need ibrufen and paracetamol but were totally fine - until 16 hours later - high fever, muscle and joint pain like never experienced before even with flu. So bad infact that they thought they actually had covid and went for a test - came back negative.
Consequently they have been off work for 7 days. The other work mates suffering have had symptoms including projectile vomit, rash, collapsing after returning to work.
They use a sickness form that already has covid listed as a sickness that will not go against their sickness record and now sickness after the jab has also been added to the list. Also the workplace has stepped in to stop too many having the jab at the same time because they are struggling with staffing.
These workmates are all under 60 years old.
I have some elderly relatives who have recently received the jab and were totally fine.
If you have had covid in the last 90 days they do not give it to you. They have been told this is because you are more likely to have a reaction to the jab.
They are thinking that perhaps the reason the 60% of workmates are suffering after effects is because they have actually had covid asymptomaticly in the past. And the person in question is convinced that they had covid back in February as they had a long illness with all the covid symptoms.
What gets me is where is all of this in the news, all you hear and are shown is happy smiling OAP's
I don't get that? If you've had the virus then you "should" have antibodies to create a resistance to any future attack. And although not a live virus the jab will simulate similar effects.
From what you're saying my guess would be that their immune system is overreacting, which can be just as harmful as not reacting at all.
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The issue was a reaction to a commonly used drug in hospital and happened over 25 years ago and never since.The turned up for the oxford one and was asked the same questions and upon telling them a doctor was called who said the place giving the pfzier one maybe were just being a little over cautious but was advised to wait 15 mins after the jab.
The persons workmates are having the jab and 60% of them have been off work with illness after receiving the jab. It was thought these people perhaps were swinging the lead for some time off.
After receiving the jab they were told you WILL need ibrufen and paracetamol but were totally fine - until 16 hours later - high fever, muscle and joint pain like never experienced before even with flu. So bad infact that they thought they actually had covid and went for a test - came back negative.
Consequently they have been off work for 7 days. The other work mates suffering have had symptoms including projectile vomit, rash, collapsing after returning to work.
They use a sickness form that already has covid listed as a sickness that will not go against their sickness record and now sickness after the jab has also been added to the list. Also the workplace has stepped in to stop too many having the jab at the same time because they are struggling with staffing.
These workmates are all under 60 years old.
I have some elderly relatives who have recently received the jab and were totally fine.
If you have had covid in the last 90 days they do not give it to you. They have been told this is because you are more likely to have a reaction to the jab.
They are thinking that perhaps the reason the 60% of workmates are suffering after effects is because they have actually had covid asymptomaticly in the past. And the person in question is convinced that they had covid back in February as they had a long illness with all the covid symptoms.
What gets me is where is all of this in the news, all you hear and are shown is happy smiling OAP's
I don't get that? If you've had the virus then you "should" have antibodies to create a resistance to any future attack. And although not a live virus the jab will simulate similar effects.
From what you're saying my guess would be that their immune system is overreacting, which can be just as harmful as not reacting at all.
I think it has been shown that the antibodies wane after a time but what remains are the "T" cells which are important.
On that subject someone I know who has had covid were being monitored for the antibodies and after 2 or 3 months of having the antibodies the test for them was coming back negative until one of their kids got covid and the antibodies then reappeared.
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Out of interest, what type of work do these under 60’s do.
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Out of interest, what type of work do these under 60’s do.
Its a type of work that gets them the jab before their normal turn would be.
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Interesting. Someone close to me went for their vax today and was unable to have it because in the past they have had a reaction to something. This was the pzifer biontec one but they were made an appointment on the spot for tomorrow for the astrozenaca Oxford Uni one.
They were told that if you have ever had any reaction to anything known or unknown then they will not give you the pzifer one.
Bit more info?
Reaction to what, with what, in the past?
Sorry for the delay in replying but I got banned from the forum
Why??
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All very secret then.
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All very secret then.
Not seceret just personal information. The people involved are feeling some guilt and consciounce about possibly being accused of casting questions/negative naritive over the vaccines and so are not posting and spreading their experiences. But they are all talking about it within their own circles.
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Interesting. Someone close to me went for their vax today and was unable to have it because in the past they have had a reaction to something. This was the pzifer biontec one but they were made an appointment on the spot for tomorrow for the astrozenaca Oxford Uni one.
They were told that if you have ever had any reaction to anything known or unknown then they will not give you the pzifer one.
Bit more info?
Reaction to what, with what, in the past?
Sorry for the delay in replying but I got banned from the forum
Why??
Send me a a PM and I will tell you all about it.
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Sorry for the delay in replying but I got banned from the forum
Why??
A moderation decision was made to give fazersharp a 7 day suspension of posting privileges.
Any further posts on this subject will be removed.
GrahamM
Moderator.
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I work for the NHS and under 60 I've now had the jab and part from a sore arm im fine.but my mate who's been quite unwell with covid has just had he's and was taken rough and had to have more time off.and at my place of work they can't find enough people who are willing to have it but won't give it to none nhs worker's. Makes no sense to me if its gonna go to waste.
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I work for the NHS and under 60 I've now had the jab and part from a sore arm im fine.but my mate who's been quite unwell with covid has just had he's and was taken rough and had to have more time off.and at my place of work they can't find enough people who are willing to have it but won't give it to none nhs worker's. Makes no sense to me if its gonna go to waste.
Interesting and I think backs up what I said.Its like people who have had covid are having a bad time with the vax.
I am thinking that because of the lack of testing back in the start of all this I think there are many many who had covid asymptomatically and it is now showing up with all the people getting sick from the vax.
Could be the connection also why the old un's are not having any problems after the vax because they were more cautious than the younger population and never got covid.
So you work in the NHS and they know people under 60 are getting sick from the vax, staff are unwilling to have it. The powers that be must know this is going on but do not want the story to get out for fear of putting people off getting the jab.
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No I don't think there's any great conspiracy your gonna get the odd person that has a reaction but that's life. I just can't understand why people are so worried about having it.its still a better option to have some sort of protection than none surly? Even if it means a few people get flu like symptoms.
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I just can't understand why people are so worried about having it.
One reason especially within a healthcare workplace that is predominantly staffed by younger female workers is pregnancy.
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One reason especially within a healthcare workplace that is predominantly staffed by younger female workers is pregnancy.
More utter social media bollocks spread by yet more idiots like Paris Petgrave see here the reaction she got from a well known and respected GP https://www.mylondon.news/news/celebs/itv-good-morning-britains-dr-19653153 (https://www.mylondon.news/news/celebs/itv-good-morning-britains-dr-19653153) she's just in it to create publicity for herself.
This sort of crap doesn't need any more spreading so :stop
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No I don't think there's any great conspiracy your gonna get the odd person that has a reaction but that's life. I just can't understand why people are so worried about having it.its still a better option to have some sort of protection than none surly? Even if it means a few people get flu like symptoms.
Spot on fella, it's far better than getting serious symptoms with long term effects or dying if you not vaccinated.
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One reason especially within a healthcare workplace that is predominantly staffed by younger female workers is pregnancy.
More utter social media bollocks spread by yet more idiots like Paris Petgrave see here the reaction she got from a well known and respected GP https://www.mylondon.news/news/celebs/itv-good-morning-britains-dr-19653153 (https://www.mylondon.news/news/celebs/itv-good-morning-britains-dr-19653153) she's just in it to create publicity for herself.
This sort of crap doesn't need any more spreading so :stop
I dont use social media - only this one - I have no idea who those people are - never heard of paris petgrave.
FYI
GOV website.
"The vaccines have not yet been tested in pregnancy, so until more information is available, those who are pregnant should not routinely have this vaccine. Non-clinical evidence is required before any clinical studies in pregnancy can start, and before that, it is usual to not recommend routine vaccination during pregnancy."
Its the governments own covid info on their website that is telling those pregnant not to have the vaccine.
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Just clicked your link. I don't see why Hillery is diverting the subject to fertility when they were talking about those pregnant and trying to get pregnant being given the vaccine. No one is mentioning anything about fertility. I am guessing those trying for a baby are told not to have it incase they already are pregnant and it is not being given to those pregnant.
And if that paris petgrave is a well know conspiracy nut then why the hell is GMB getting her on. Was it just so peirs can have a slanging match. :rolleyes If it weren't for GMB no one would of ever heard of her.
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Interesting and I think backs up what I said.Its like people who have had covid are having a bad time with the vax.I am thinking that because of the lack of testing back in the start of all this I think there are many many who had covid asymptomatically and it is now showing up with all the people getting sick from the vax.
You are bound to get the odd bad reaction, whether or not people have previously had the virus. Recent estimates were that something like 1 in 10 people have already contracted the virus, even if asymptomatic. If what you say is true, they'd be dropping like flies after their vaccination. We probably would have noticed :rolleyes
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Interesting and I think backs up what I said.Its like people who have had covid are having a bad time with the vax.I am thinking that because of the lack of testing back in the start of all this I think there are many many who had covid asymptomatically and it is now showing up with all the people getting sick from the vax.
You are bound to get the odd bad reaction, whether or not people have previously had the virus. Recent estimates were that something like 1 in 10 people have already contracted the virus, even if asymptomatic. If what you say is true, they'd be dropping like flies after their vaccination. We probably would have noticed :rolleyes
Well yes they are dropping like flies - at least in my mates workplace - around 60% of them. Kitcrazy works in the NHS and has seen that he was ok but his mate was bad, wonder if Kitcrazy could ask around to see who else was ok or ill with it. He said they were having difficulty finding people willing to have the jab - could it be because they have seen their co workers off work for a week and can not afford to take time off ? - Rather than any conspiracy theory's on GMB.
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I still prefer to listen to scientists and medical experts, than mates of mates :)
I look at it this way. The chances of dying unvaccinated are greater than dying vaccinated.
Bring it on.
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- I still prefer to listen to scientists and medical experts, than mates of mates
- I look at it this way. The chances of dying vaccinated are greater than dying vaccinated.
- 100%, those are the only ones you should listen too (no political agenda), would also add internet forum commentators to the ignore list.
- Can't argue with that statement, but would prefix that we need a demonstrable vaccine with minimal side effects (eg safe for pregnancy.)
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Got me letter in for me Jab--whoopdeedoo.
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100%, those are the only ones you should listen too (no political agenda), would also add internet forum commentators to the ignore list.
Spot on
we need a demonstrable vaccine with minimal side effects (eg safe for pregnancy.)
Many vaccines aren't given to pregnant women, in this vaccines case it's just too new to know what if any impact it will have on an unborn child throughout it's stages. Most women in that category will be of low risk from Covid, so not having a vaccine is a calculated risk but a very small one.
Paris Petgrave and those like her are just scare mongering, for their own ends. The more these idiots are given platforms or their message is spread by others the worse it gets. There's very little in life that's guaranteed, accept at some point you're going to die. What's been happening slowly over decades, some people have been peddling crap that's it's always 'someone else's fault' and crated this idea that no one should get hurt or die and if they do you can blame and claim. Done a lot of the time by those who want to get noticed and/or make money. I struggle with these daytime TV programmes who wheel on countless celebrities and sports people who's own lives are total mess, with drugs, depression, jail time you name it and go on reality TV shows to reinvent themselves, for money and all of a sudden are f*^king experts, telling others how to live! I wouldn't follow any of them anywhere.
Reality is, some will die no matter what we do, if we take/make bad choices this will increase our chances of dying sooner, some will have reaction to things others wont. Some can smoke all their lives, live till 100 or whatever, others will die of lung cancer having never smoked, but reality is not many at either end, not compared to, if you smoke for a good length of time. You're going to damage yourself and that will end your life earlier. Basically it's live and it's impossible to save everybody, but having a jab with give you much higher chances, so have it. As motorcyclists we have a higher chance of being injured or killed every time we swing our leg over and ride than we ever have from a Covid vaccine.
We must stop these idiots and those who peddle their crap :evil
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Got me letter in for me Jab--whoopdeedoo.
8) :)
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My Mother in law had her first jab about 2 weeks ago with (unfortunately :pokefun ) no ill effects.
My dad has his booked for this Friday - will let you know on that one.
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(unfortunately :pokefun ) no ill effects.
:rollin
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My wife had hers a week or so back and didn't really suffer any problems. She got really lethargic and tired the night of it and woke up the next day with a headache and a really sore arm but by the end of the next day was all fine. Few of her colleges had the similar sort of reaction but lasting a few days. All in all nothing major
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According to the scientists...... most likely side effects are caused by the body's immune system attacking what it 'thinks' is a virus, even though it isn't. That's how you build up the antibodies and t-cells for next time.
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Been speaking to my mate in more detail about their symptoms. Apart from the joint pain fever and feeling really shitty constantly for 24 hours they had shooting pains in the lymph glands and lost sense of taste for around 8 hours which then turned into an altered sense of taste with things tasting wrong for another 48 hours smell was largely ok apart from also being altered for a while. The general unwell and feeling crappy and needing Ibrufen and paracetamol lasted for about 7 days but came in waves, feeling fine for a number of hours and then just being hit with it again.
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Sounds to me like he had the virus. Vaccination doesn't give you immunity until some time later.
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Sounds to me like he had the virus. Vaccination doesn't give you immunity until some time later.
Yes they thought they had it too and so had a test 48 hours after feeling ill which came back negative.
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Sounds to me like he had the virus. Vaccination doesn't give you immunity until some time later.
You should know by now it doesn't give you "immunity"?
Only something 100% effective can give you that.
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Yes. As far as we know the vax does not stop you getting it and it does not stop you from spreading it to others. Or the phrasing being used is "we do not yet know the effect on transmission"
Yes we know the vax is good at reducing your symptoms but that for me raises issues at least in the early rollout. If in a family one person due to their job is getting the vax 6 months before the rest of the family then when they get covid their otherwise obvious symptoms have now been reduced to nothing. They then unknowingly take covid back to the family, instead of showing symptoms and isolating from the other family members. I think in these households the vaccinated person needs to go home with a box of LFT tests so they can continually monitor. Which would also help in the research to see if the vax actually does stop you getting it and therefore spreading it.
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All the vaccines do is provide you with the antibodies and t-cells ready for when you do (if you) get it. But by enabling you to better fight the virus, you are less infectious and for less time.
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not long now till a get ma vaccination
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I have been saying for ages there is a link between side effects and age. The old do not seem to be having any side effects. I came across this on the BBC - Prof Paul Hunter, of the University of East Anglia, was talking about Germany not giving the vaccine to over 65s. And he said.
"We do know that it is safe in people over 65. They have much fewer side effects than younger people"
I think that as the age of the vaccinated drops there will be more and more vaccine hesitancy as more and more people see their friends and family have a bad time after having it.
I can see a time where hesitancy becomes a problem. In the future I think a good way to get people to have it is announce that in 6 months time there will be a £150 (or whatever) charge to have the vaccine. A little bit like what microsoft did with update hesitancy prising windows 7 out of peoples hands and offering 10 free for a limited time.
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I have been saying for ages there is a link between side effects and age. The old do not seem to be having any side effects. I came across this on the BBC - Prof Paul Hunter, of the University of East Anglia, was talking about Germany not giving the vaccine to over 65s. And he said.
"We do know that it is safe in people over 65. They have much fewer side effects than younger people"
I think that as the age of the vaccinated drops there will be more and more vaccine hesitancy as more and more people see their friends and family have a bad time after having it.
I can see a time where hesitancy becomes a problem. In the future I think a good way to get people to have it is announce that in 6 months time there will be a £150 (or whatever) charge to have the vaccine. A little bit like what microsoft did with update hesitancy prising windows 7 out of peoples hands and offering 10 free for a limited time.
Open pubs, add the vaccine to booze, sorted.
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Got an armfull of Pfizers finest this morning. Still can't speak Chinese though. Mind you, I have enough trouble with English. :lol
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Got an armfull of Pfizers finest this morning. Still can't speak Chinese though. Mind you, I have enough trouble with English. :lol
Well done I am sure you will be fine.
I have found the published results from the trials which shows that the younger are getting side effects but not the old. Why is this info not mentioned anywhere in the news.The row at the top is 18-55 age
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Got an armfull of Pfizers finest this morning. Still can't speak Chinese though. Mind you, I have enough trouble with English. :lol
Well done I am sure you will be fine.
I have found the published results from the trials which shows that the younger are getting side effects but not the old. Why is this info not mentioned anywhere in the news.The row at the top is 18-55 age
But who can prove that these ailments weren't about to happen anyway? Seeing as the jab takes weeks of the body going through a defence process to really have an effect.
People will have the jab who are already ill or are about to be ill, so blaming the vaccine could be totally false.
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Got an armfull of Pfizers finest this morning. Still can't speak Chinese though. Mind you, I have enough trouble with English. :lol
Well done I am sure you will be fine.
I have found the published results from the trials which shows that the younger are getting side effects but not the old. Why is this info not mentioned anywhere in the news.The row at the top is 18-55 age
But who can prove that these ailments weren't about to happen anyway? Seeing as the jab takes weeks of the body going through a defence process to really have an effect.
People will have the jab who are already ill or are about to be ill, so blaming the vaccine could be totally false.
You mean like they do with the reported "covid" deaths 😅🙈
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Got an armfull of Pfizers finest this morning. Still can't speak Chinese though. Mind you, I have enough trouble with English. :lol
Well done I am sure you will be fine.
I have found the published results from the trials which shows that the younger are getting side effects but not the old. Why is this info not mentioned anywhere in the news.The row at the top is 18-55 age
But who can prove that these ailments weren't about to happen anyway? Seeing as the jab takes weeks of the body going through a defence process to really have an effect.
People will have the jab who are already ill or are about to be ill, so blaming the vaccine could be totally false.
Look at the charts in my post they cover the 1st 7 days with the worst day being day 2.
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Got an armfull of Pfizers finest this morning. Still can't speak Chinese though. Mind you, I have enough trouble with English. :lol
Well done I am sure you will be fine.
I have found the published results from the trials which shows that the younger are getting side effects but not the old. Why is this info not mentioned anywhere in the news.The row at the top is 18-55 age
But who can prove that these ailments weren't about to happen anyway? Seeing as the jab takes weeks of the body going through a defence process to really have an effect.
People will have the jab who are already ill or are about to be ill, so blaming the vaccine could be totally false.
You mean like they do with the reported "covid" deaths 😅🙈
I've had 2 friends die of Covid since last Sunday, and there's another family member of one of those still on a ventilator too.
That's "of" it, not "with" it.
Saying that, i don't agree with the 28 day window thing, it makes no sense at all, but i guess resources are not exactly plentiful right now to delve further into real causes of death rather than just tarring them with the same brush.
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Got an armfull of Pfizers finest this morning. Still can't speak Chinese though. Mind you, I have enough trouble with English. :lol
Well done I am sure you will be fine.
I have found the published results from the trials which shows that the younger are getting side effects but not the old. Why is this info not mentioned anywhere in the news.The row at the top is 18-55 age
But who can prove that these ailments weren't about to happen anyway? Seeing as the jab takes weeks of the body going through a defence process to really have an effect.
People will have the jab who are already ill or are about to be ill, so blaming the vaccine could be totally false.
Look at the charts in my post they cover the 1st 7 days with the worst day being day 2.
Wouldn't surprise me if the reasoning is because people are so damn sterile these days with all the constant handwashing and sanitizing.
It can't be good for your own natural immune system?
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Just seen that Captain Tom Moore is in hospital with the virus now :\
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Got an armfull of Pfizers finest this morning. Still can't speak Chinese though. Mind you, I have enough trouble with English. :lol
Well done I am sure you will be fine.
I have found the published results from the trials which shows that the younger are getting side effects but not the old. Why is this info not mentioned anywhere in the news.The row at the top is 18-55 age
But who can prove that these ailments weren't about to happen anyway? Seeing as the jab takes weeks of the body going through a defence process to really have an effect.
People will have the jab who are already ill or are about to be ill, so blaming the vaccine could be totally false.
You mean like they do with the reported "covid" deaths 😅🙈
I've had 2 friends die of Covid since last Sunday, and there's another family member of one of those still on a ventilator too.
That's "of" it, not "with" it.
Saying that, i don't agree with the 28 day window thing, it makes no sense at all, but i guess resources are not exactly plentiful right now to delve further into real causes of death rather than just tarring them with the same brush.
Sorry to hear that Darrsi 😔
But yes the way the deaths are reported is just part of a scaremongering programme... im sure of it. I believe it was last week when we reported one of the highest daily deaths since it all began and my local papers headline said something along the lines of "Grim day as highest daily covid death counted in local hospitals" as we had 6 deaths recorded in 1 day.... well turns out when you actually read the full article that 4 of the deaths occurred in November, one in December and the other at the beginning of Jan. So the actual truth of it was that nobody had died of Covid in our area on that particular day but because of the way these idiots record things they managed to justify a misleading headline 🙄
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Sadly it takes scare tactics to get people to do as they are told and to justify certain laws. But It doesn't help with trust. Alongside of needing to scare people they also bury or withold info - such as how the vaccine has more side effects the younger you are.
As much as I do not belive everything I am told I also listen very carefully to what I am NOT being told.
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Sadly it takes scare tactics to get people to do as they are told and to justify certain laws.
Of course it does. I've had one neighbour, and a good friend's mother die so far. Both were in good health previously, and had not been vaccinated
Side effects or not, as I've said, you're more likely to die without being vaccinated, than vaccinated.
That's what matters most.
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Sounds like some good noises are coming out about the effect of the AZ/oxford vax has on transmission.
Wonder what will happen to the pfizer one if it proves to be no good at reducing transmission, and considering its -70degrees storage needs.
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This got my goat the other day I was listening to LBC and someone living in Hungry rang about the EUs vax roll out problems and he mentioned about Hungry getting the Russian sputnic vax. The two presenters then started sniggering --- "oh would you take the Russian vaccine" - laughing - "make sure its not got any novichok in it"- laughing.
If someone rang in talking about our vax n that way they would be shot down as anti vaxer right wing nazis. RT tv says sputnic is perfectly safe.
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Ah, good old Vaccine Nationalism.
Already there have been Brits refusing any other vaccine other than the "Oxford" one, because, "it's British, damnit and we don't trust that foreign muck...!"
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Queen Ursula VDL appears be have made a laughing stock of herself. Critizing the UK for insufficient testing of the Oxford/Zeneca vac, then demanding that the EU isnt getting enough of it. If ever we should find ourselves with a surplus, I reckon we should help out the Commonwealth first
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Queen Ursula VDL
:rollin reminds me of VPL
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Queen Ursula VDL appears be have made a laughing stock of herself. Critizing the UK for insufficient testing of the Oxford/Zeneca vac, then demanding that the EU isnt getting enough of it. If ever we should find ourselves with a surplus, I reckon we should help out the Commonwealth first
Oxford University designed the vaccine. AstraZeneca who are responsible for manufacture and testing, is a Swedish/UK company. A large part of the testing was carried out in Brazil and South Africa. Much of the Commonwealth, such as Australia and New Zealand hasn't needed to start vaccination, as they properly closed their borders early, rather than leaving it until the last minute.
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Queen Ursula VDL appears be have made a laughing stock of herself. Critizing the UK for insufficient testing of the Oxford/Zeneca vac, then demanding that the EU isnt getting enough of it. If ever we should find ourselves with a surplus, I reckon we should help out the Commonwealth first
Oxford University designed the vaccine. AstraZeneca who are responsible for manufacture and testing, is a Swedish/UK company. A large part of the testing was carried out in Brazil and South Africa. Much of the Commonwealth, such as Australia and New Zealand hasn't needed to start vaccination, as they properly closed their borders early, rather than leaving it until the last minute.
Which brings me to something that occurred to me with the likes of Australia and new zealand largely successfully kept covid out of the country but then what - this virus and its mutations is here for ever. Are they going to be locked in their country for ever whilst the rest of the world has achieved heard immunity. This virus is going to mutate and mutate possibly into something massively more deadly than now and those populations have had no exposure to the original form and therefore have no pre existing immunity - however small it may be
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I believe that those two nations are more self sufficient, but will still have to vaccinate their populations at some point. Large land mass and small population id guess would be easier to control and manage any outbreak
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You're not allowed into New Zealand with mud on your shoes. I'd imagine their entry requirements for Covid-19 will be very tough.
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You're not allowed into New Zealand with mud on your shoes.
Is that because the whole country has just had a new carpet :lol
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Reminds me of the joke about the police radioing in, having found a wife who had shot her husband for walking on her mopped floor. 'Have you arrested her?' says base. 'No, the floor's still wet'.
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Reminds me of the joke about the police radioing in, having found a wife who had shot her husband for walking on her mopped floor. 'Have you arrested her?' says base. 'No, the floor's still wet'.
:rollin
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Reminds me of the joke about the police radioing in, having found a wife who had shot her husband for walking on her mopped floor. 'Have you arrested her?' says base. 'No, the floor's still wet'.
:lol
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The death toll now stands at well over 100,000, now exceeds the number of civilian deaths in world war two of 70,000. Opening up after the first lockdown has proved to be an absolute disaster that will tkae us years to recover from. On a more cheery note, I reckon Ill get my shot sometime in summer (assuming Im still here)
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I see today in the news its starting to come out about the side effects that I have been telling you about for weeks. But they are playing them down- calling them "mild" and saying 1 in 10. That is not my mates experience or their workmates It was 60% of them having side effects and needing between 1 and 2 days off work then out of that 60% about half needed up to 7 days off work. Symptoms worse than any flu they have ever had.
Just like I said the old uns seem to be totally untouched by any side effects and as more and more younger get the vax these stories will come out more and more.
Yes feeling like shit for a week and having a week off work is better than being dead.
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I see today in the news its starting to come out about the side effects that I have been telling you about for weeks. But they are playing them down- calling them "mild" and saying 1 in 10. That is not my mates experience or their workmates It was 60% of them having side effects and needing between 1 and 2 days off work then out of that 60% about half needed up to 7 days off work. Symptoms worse than any flu they have ever had.
Just like I said the old uns seem to be totally untouched by any side effects and as more and more younger get the vax these stories will come out more and more.
Yes feeling like shit for a week and having a week off work is better than being dead.
As sais in previous posts, the development time for vaccines is typically around 10 years or so. Faced with potential masisve death tolls and economic impacts, govermnets and biotech companies have drastically shortened the development time of the Covid vaccine. Its inevitable something has to give, starting with the govt absolving the companies of any future liabilities for side effects. The backlog of work for the NHS will keep it at full stretch for years to come. Makes you realise just how fragile our existence as a species is
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Here's something that doesn't add up, now that more younger people are getting the Oxford A-Z vaccine and reports of side affects are starting to be reported. WE are told "what that means is your body is creating an immune response. Now, that is what you want." Great. so by that rational why then is there no side effects in the over 65s - no side effects = no immune response ?.
From my understanding of the review in the Lancet the Ox A-Z was only tested on 224 participants over over 70. And in total only 5 cases occurred in those participants older than 55 years of age. They state "Vaccine efficacy in older age groups could not be assessed but will be determined, if sufficient data are available, in a future analysis after more cases have accrued."
This from the BBC--
The issue for some European regulators is that they think not enough of the AZ trial participants aged over 65 caught the virus to make conclusions on the vaccine's effectiveness. This is because only two of the 660 people in that age group were infected.
It seems to me that boris is either taking a big gamble that the vax works as well on the old as the younger groups or is using the older groups as an extended trial to find out. Perhaps the gamble will pay off in stemming the amount of older ones dying from covid - something that has continually been blamed on boris and is I think a massive incentive for boris to push it out to the over 65s.
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I've had my invitation from the NHS to a arrange for my vaccination arrive today. Earlier than I anticipated. I also did something that I never believed I would ever do last week, and paid for some private medical treatment, to relieve a painful reoccurring condition that has been getting worse and could have led to permanent a disablement. I had inquired and flagged this up last Sept with the NHS, but didn't really expect anything to happen until the backlog clears, so I bit the bullet and stumped up the readies
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I've just checked the Calculator and I'm now due for my jab sometime after mid-April, so just a couple of months or so to wait...
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Had me jab yesterday (pfizer) all ok.
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I've had my invitation from the NHS to a arrange for my vaccination arrive today. Earlier than I anticipated. I also did something that I never believed I would ever do last week, and paid for some private medical treatment, to relieve a painful reoccurring condition that has been getting worse and could have led to permanent a disablement. I had inquired and flagged this up last Sept with the NHS, but didn't really expect anything to happen until the backlog clears, so I bit the bullet and stumped up the readies
Checked onto the NHS website last night, got in this morning at 9.25. So quick. Website was simple and worked fine, turned up at the site, very well organised and efficient, in and out in 15 minutes. 2nd shot in May. And a bonus, the private treatment appears to be working :)
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I've had my invitation from the NHS to a arrange for my vaccination arrive today. Earlier than I anticipated. I also did something that I never believed I would ever do last week, and paid for some private medical treatment, to relieve a painful reoccurring condition that has been getting worse and could have led to permanent a disablement. I had inquired and flagged this up last Sept with the NHS, but didn't really expect anything to happen until the backlog clears, so I bit the bullet and stumped up the readies
Checked onto the NHS website last night, got in this morning at 9.25. So quick. Website was simple and worked fine, turned up at the site, very well organised and efficient, in and out in 15 minutes. 2nd shot in May. And a bonus, the private treatment appears to be working :)
From all accounts the whole process is very slick and efficient.
I have a feeling that there are going to be issues with the second jab rollout. There is such a massive push from the gov to hit the target of 15M that all stops have been pulled out, to date less than 500,000 have had their second jab. I cannot see the second phase rollout to lower age groups continuing at the same pace as they rush to give the second dose before 12 weeks. Wouldn't surprise me if the 12 weeks gets pushed back "after new data shows its ok"
I don't think that any targets have even been announced for the next group vax.
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Got a text at 4.35pm on Thursday from my doctors, had the Pfizer jab at 7.30pm the same day.
Bit of a dull pain in the arm on Saturday, a bit like if someone had just stuck a needle in you :lol
Other than that, nothing else to report!
Had a choice of 3 venues, and a lot of time spots in each to choose from. I chose Barnet FC where they were doing it, and it was all extremely well organised...apart from one thing.
AFTER the jab, they handed me a 4 page A4 size leaflet to read which was all about the vaccine. One of the first sentences, which was repeated later on as well, was "Read this leaflet BEFORE having the vaccine".
There may have been something in there that could affect your decision to have it done, like an allergy for example, so i did think that was a bit wrong.
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Here it is in PDF form on the gov website -- why don't they publish this in all the media media outlets so people can read it before they get jabbed. For some reason someone somewhere has decided it would be best not to.
Patient Information leaflet of Pfizer Biotech Link: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/948518/Information_for_UK_recipients_on_PfizerBioNTech.pdf (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/948518/Information_for_UK_recipients_on_PfizerBioNTech.pdf)
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Here it is in PDF form on the gov website -- why don't they publish this in all the media media outlets so people can read it before they get jabbed. For some reason someone somewhere has decided it would be best not to.
Patient Information leaflet of Pfizer Biotech Link: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/948518/Information_for_UK_recipients_on_PfizerBioNTech.pdf (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/948518/Information_for_UK_recipients_on_PfizerBioNTech.pdf)
Don't know if it's a genuine oversight, or them just being a bit sloppy and forgot to give me it beforehand?
Everything else appeared to be really well organised.
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Will be more interesting to see how the numbers continue after today. They have met their 15m target but I'm guessing it's going downhill from here onwards. The cuts will start soon, the waiting times extended, operating hours reduced etc etc
I just hope it's enough to get us out of this foccing lockdown 😴
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I just don't think we are ever going to be able to keep up with mutations - new vax- mutation - new vax and by then some sort of heard immunity will of been reached and only the vulnerable will bother getting RE- vaccinated every 6 months.
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I just don't think we are ever going to be able to keep up with mutations - new vax- mutation - new vax and by then some sort of heard immunity will of been reached and only the vulnerable will bother getting RE- vaccinated every 6 months.
Exactly the same as flu or the common cold then!
No big deal.
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Exactly the same as flu or the common cold then!
No big deal.
There is only a limited number of flu variants that they decide upon each year. Which one shall we release this year?
In other words, which vaccine have we got too may of and need to shift :pokefun
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Getting a little suspicious now - keep hearing "we don't yet know the effect the vaccines have on transmission" just heard zad the vaccine minister say it again. 2 months and 15M arms jabbed and they still cannot tell us if the vaccine prevents transmission of covid or not. Yes there were positive noises about it being made a couple of weeks ago but its all gone quiet since.
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Exactly the same as flu or the common cold then!
No big deal.
There is only a limited number of flu variants that they decide upon each year. Which one shall we release this year?
In other words, which vaccine have we got too may of and need to shift :pokefun
It's very difficult to catch "full" flu. I've only had it twice in 50 years, and most certainly don't recommend it.
But remember, we never hid from it at all, like never!
No extra hand washing, no distancing and no mask wearing, it was always a hand up and a polite "Don't give me your cold please".
There are something like 200 viruses that give similar symptoms of the common cold, that's why we've never been able to pin that down to sort "it" out, because you never know which version you've got.
Read an interesting article yesterday that explained that the Spanish Flu never went away, it just went dormant. It basically said that every person who has had the flu ever since then up to now has had a mutated version of that same virus.
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It basically said that every person who has had the flu ever since then up to now has had a mutated version of that same virus.
It reminds me of this from war of the worlds (do Morgan freeman in your head )
From the moment the invaders arrived, breathed our air, ate and drank, they were doomed. They were undone, destroyed, after all of man's weapons and devices had failed, by the tiniest creatures that God in his wisdom put upon this earth. By the toll of a billion deaths, man had earned his immunity, his right to survive among this planet's infinite organisms. And that right is ours against all challenges. For neither do men live nor die in vain.
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It basically said that every person who has had the flu ever since then up to now has had a mutated version of that same virus.
It reminds me of this from war of the worlds (do Morgan freeman in your head )
From the moment the invaders arrived, breathed our air, ate and drank, they were doomed. They were undone, destroyed, after all of man's weapons and devices had failed, by the tiniest creatures that God in his wisdom put upon this earth. By the toll of a billion deaths, man had earned his immunity, his right to survive among this planet's infinite organisms. And that right is ours against all challenges. For neither do men live nor die in vain.
Great book.
It could be argued that medicine, including vaccines, does make the human race less resilient - generally speaking.
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It basically said that every person who has had the flu ever since then up to now has had a mutated version of that same virus.
It reminds me of this from war of the worlds (do Morgan freeman in your head )
From the moment the invaders arrived, breathed our air, ate and drank, they were doomed. They were undone, destroyed, after all of man's weapons and devices had failed, by the tiniest creatures that God in his wisdom put upon this earth. By the toll of a billion deaths, man had earned his immunity, his right to survive among this planet's infinite organisms. And that right is ours against all challenges. For neither do men live nor die in vain.
Great book.
It could be argued that medicine, including vaccines, does make the human race less resilient - generally speaking.
That's a pretty poor argument. We would be in a very bad place at the very least without medicine.
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It basically said that every person who has had the flu ever since then up to now has had a mutated version of that same virus.
It reminds me of this from war of the worlds (do Morgan freeman in your head )
From the moment the invaders arrived, breathed our air, ate and drank, they were doomed. They were undone, destroyed, after all of man's weapons and devices had failed, by the tiniest creatures that God in his wisdom put upon this earth. By the toll of a billion deaths, man had earned his immunity, his right to survive among this planet's infinite organisms. And that right is ours against all challenges. For neither do men live nor die in vain.
Great book.
It could be argued that medicine, including vaccines, does make the human race less resilient - generally speaking.
That's a pretty poor argument. We would be in a very bad place at the very least without medicine.
Depends on how you look at it.
Of course, I could be wrong - not a doctor, but my thinking is:
Say I can't have children, and use medicine with all those artificial... whatever it's called, to "make" 3, or 4 kids.
In that case, isn't the medicine actually helping distribute and prolong the life of genes with such a defect?
Same goes for many other defects.
I'm not arguing against the medicine, or science and tech. in general - just think that it's not 100% good, it has its cons and costs.
No other species on earth lives after it is no longer productive - but we do. And we all like to live as long as possible. Is that good, healthy and natural?
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Anyone who has had kids will tell you that whilst they are crawling around they pick up everything they can find and put it in their mouth - slugs, mud - the cat - EVERYTHING. It seems to be a natural human instinct to acquire every kind of organism possible as soon as possible. Parents paranoid about sterilising all surfaces are doing more harm than good. (maybe not under a WW pandemic ) but in general before covid.
I think there is an argument that we can be "too clean" and have been for a while.
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Be careful where you go with that, you're right what you say about some medical interventions weakening future generations genes. For example i can't see my hand in front of my face without my specs and had we had kids I dare say at least one of them would have been short sighted too. In our hunter gatherer days I dare say I would have starved to death so my genes wouldn't have affected the next generation. Humanity's main weakness is compassion and where would we be without that, although it does seem somewhat lacking nowadays, we as a race don't like to see others suffering. Eugenics in principle works to some extent but who would want to see it put into practice? There are also many examples in the animal kingdom of living past their productive life, many primates do and so do elephants.
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Be careful where you go with that, you're right what you say about some medical interventions weakening future generations genes. For example i can't see my hand in front of my face without my specs and had we had kids I dare say at least one of them would have been short sighted too. In our hunter gatherer days I dare say I would have starved to death so my genes wouldn't have affected the next generation. Humanity's main weakness is compassion and where would we be without that, although it does seem somewhat lacking nowadays, we as a race don't like to see others suffering. Eugenics in principle works to some extent but who would want to see it put into practice? There are also many examples in the animal kingdom of living past their productive life, many primates do and so do elephants.
I agree it's not simple.
Just pointing out the potential problems. I suppose all the previous civilizations thought they were the pinnacle of human progress, and the way human society should go. Yet, only when those civilizations are dead, we get to discuss what got to them, through history.
For our civilization: it's clear we are destroying the planet, and to me it seems people are getting a bit dumber - shorter attention spans, especially for the younger generations. Doesn't look too promising.
Not claiming I have any idea how to correct that - there are too many things to consider (practical, ethical, economical...).
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Be careful where you go with that, you're right what you say about some medical interventions weakening future generations genes. For example i can't see my hand in front of my face without my specs and had we had kids I dare say at least one of them would have been short sighted too. In our hunter gatherer days I dare say I would have starved to death so my genes wouldn't have affected the next generation. Humanity's main weakness is compassion and where would we be without that, although it does seem somewhat lacking nowadays, we as a race don't like to see others suffering. Eugenics in principle works to some extent but who would want to see it put into practice? There are also many examples in the animal kingdom of living past their productive life, many primates do and so do elephants.
I agree it's not simple.
Just pointing out the potential problems. I suppose all the previous civilizations thought they were the pinnacle of human progress, and the way human society should go. Yet, only when those civilizations are dead, we get to discuss what got to them, through history.
For our civilization: it's clear we are destroying the planet, and to me it seems people are getting a bit dumber - shorter attention spans, especially for the younger generations. Doesn't look too promising.
Not claiming I have any idea how to correct that - there are too many things to consider (practical, ethical, economical...).
Recreational drugs are a big factor in the way people behave these days, it's a massive market and the supply is most definitely there for the demand.
And due to the recent snowflake generation getting their way there is a vastly different attitude towards discipline with younger people nowadays which has basically given them free reign to run riot, and why we have so much trouble on our streets.
When i was a kid we all had penknives for example, but i don't recall anyone ever using one as a weapon. There was a kid stabbed to death near me 2 days ago, with a CCTV video showing exactly what happened, and the attackers can only be described as savages.
But when people are caught doing wrong you then get the snowflake defence liars doing their best to make them look good in court and they get their result far too often, meaning the criminal tends to get preferential treatment over the victims.
The horrible reality about all of this is that there isn't really a fix either. Drugs are already illegal, and if you look at places like USA where the threat of really long jail time, unlike our paltry sentencing, still doesn't seem to affect the crime statistics then it all seems rather scary when you think how bad the future is going to be.
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Be careful where you go with that, you're right what you say about some medical interventions weakening future generations genes. For example i can't see my hand in front of my face without my specs and had we had kids I dare say at least one of them would have been short sighted too. In our hunter gatherer days I dare say I would have starved to death so my genes wouldn't have affected the next generation. Humanity's main weakness is compassion and where would we be without that, although it does seem somewhat lacking nowadays, we as a race don't like to see others suffering. Eugenics in principle works to some extent but who would want to see it put into practice? There are also many examples in the animal kingdom of living past their productive life, many primates do and so do elephants.
I agree it's not simple.
Just pointing out the potential problems. I suppose all the previous civilizations thought they were the pinnacle of human progress, and the way human society should go. Yet, only when those civilizations are dead, we get to discuss what got to them, through history.
For our civilization: it's clear we are destroying the planet, and to me it seems people are getting a bit dumber - shorter attention spans, especially for the younger generations. Doesn't look too promising.
Not claiming I have any idea how to correct that - there are too many things to consider (practical, ethical, economical...).
Recreational drugs are a big factor in the way people behave these days, it's a massive market and the supply is most definitely there for the demand.
And due to the recent snowflake generation getting their way there is a vastly different attitude towards discipline with younger people nowadays which has basically given them free reign to run riot, and why we have so much trouble on our streets.
When i was a kid we all had penknives for example, but i don't recall anyone ever using one as a weapon. There was a kid stabbed to death near me 2 days ago, with a CCTV video showing exactly what happened, and the attackers can only be described as savages.
But when people are caught doing wrong you then get the snowflake defence liars doing their best to make them look good in court and they get their result far too often, meaning the criminal tends to get preferential treatment over the victims.
The horrible reality about all of this is that there isn't really a fix either. Drugs are already illegal, and if you look at places like USA where the threat of really long jail time, unlike our paltry sentencing, still doesn't seem to affect the crime statistics then it all seems rather scary when you think how bad the future is going to be.
Fair points. The snowflake ones really struck a chord. A practical example:
Cyclist was passing close to a parked car. Driver opened the door, pushing the cyclist towards the middle of the lane - and making them fall off.
The cyclist then got run over by a bus that was coming up from behind - the bus driver had no time to react (and hadn't created enough room in case something like that happens).
My reaction:
"Stay out of the door zone, people, it can be dangerous. We can't really rely on all the drivers being careful."
Most people's reaction to that:
"You victim blaming biker hater!"
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I suppose theres an argument that we have stopped evolving naturally as a species, by our interventions in medical science. Whos to say that we wouldnt have evolved natural defences against diseases in time. I certainly think that we are losing our self reliance.
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Be careful where you go with that, you're right what you say about some medical interventions weakening future generations genes. For example i can't see my hand in front of my face without my specs and had we had kids I dare say at least one of them would have been short sighted too. In our hunter gatherer days I dare say I would have starved to death so my genes wouldn't have affected the next generation. Humanity's main weakness is compassion and where would we be without that, although it does seem somewhat lacking nowadays, we as a race don't like to see others suffering. Eugenics in principle works to some extent but who would want to see it put into practice? There are also many examples in the animal kingdom of living past their productive life, many primates do and so do elephants.
I agree it's not simple.
Just pointing out the potential problems. I suppose all the previous civilizations thought they were the pinnacle of human progress, and the way human society should go. Yet, only when those civilizations are dead, we get to discuss what got to them, through history.
For our civilization: it's clear we are destroying the planet, and to me it seems people are getting a bit dumber - shorter attention spans, especially for the younger generations. Doesn't look too promising.
Not claiming I have any idea how to correct that - there are too many things to consider (practical, ethical, economical...).
Recreational drugs are a big factor in the way people behave these days, it's a massive market and the supply is most definitely there for the demand.
And due to the recent snowflake generation getting their way there is a vastly different attitude towards discipline with younger people nowadays which has basically given them free reign to run riot, and why we have so much trouble on our streets.
When i was a kid we all had penknives for example, but i don't recall anyone ever using one as a weapon. There was a kid stabbed to death near me 2 days ago, with a CCTV video showing exactly what happened, and the attackers can only be described as savages.
But when people are caught doing wrong you then get the snowflake defence liars doing their best to make them look good in court and they get their result far too often, meaning the criminal tends to get preferential treatment over the victims.
The horrible reality about all of this is that there isn't really a fix either. Drugs are already illegal, and if you look at places like USA where the threat of really long jail time, unlike our paltry sentencing, still doesn't seem to affect the crime statistics then it all seems rather scary when you think how bad the future is going to be.
Fair points. The snowflake ones really struck a chord. A practical example:
Cyclist was passing close to a parked car. Driver opened the door, pushing the cyclist towards the middle of the lane - and making them fall off.
The cyclist then got run over by a bus that was coming up from behind - the bus driver had no time to react (and hadn't created enough room in case something like that happens).
My reaction:
"Stay out of the door zone, people, it can be dangerous. We can't really rely on all the drivers being careful."
Most people's reaction to that:
"You victim blaming biker hater!"
Bus drivers never seem to have time to react to the red light system we have going on our streets either. Even though there's a green then an amber light beforehand.
Sounds like a Deathrace 2000 moment to me. :lol
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and to me it seems people are getting a bit dumber - shorter attention spans, especially for the younger generations.
And that is exactly the way the world governments want it. That way you can be controlled and will obey and not ask questions and will believe everything we are told.Anyone who questions anything other than the prescribed narrative is labelled a conspiracy nut job and non plat-formed.
Sentients don't like to speak out -- because they are cleaver and know their funding will disappear if they don't follow the narrative they are supposed to.
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No other species on earth lives after it is no longer productive - but we do. And we all like to live as long as possible. Is that good, healthy and natural?
Most whale species do, as do elephants.
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and to me it seems people are getting a bit dumber - shorter attention spans, especially for the younger generations.
And that is exactly the way the world governments want it. That way you can be controlled and will obey and not ask questions and will believe everything we are told.Anyone who questions anything other than the prescribed narrative is labelled a conspiracy nut job and non plat-formed.
Sentients don't like to speak out -- because they are cleaver and know their funding will disappear if they don't follow the narrative they are supposed to.
But some people simply are conspiracy theory nut jobs. Or just like to do the opposite of the norm, generally to be a deliberate pain in the arse and seek attention.
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and to me it seems people are getting a bit dumber - shorter attention spans, especially for the younger generations.
And that is exactly the way the world governments want it. That way you can be controlled and will obey and not ask questions and will believe everything we are told.Anyone who questions anything other than the prescribed narrative is labelled a conspiracy nut job and non plat-formed.
Sentients don't like to speak out -- because they are cleaver and know their funding will disappear if they don't follow the narrative they are supposed to.
But some people simply are conspiracy theory nut jobs. Or just like to do the opposite of the norm, generally to be a deliberate pain in the arse and seek attention.
Yes I think the whole conspiracy "thing" has become an industry. Books/ public talks at £40 a ticket its became entertainment.
I don't agree with the likes of facebook / twitter / the "MSM" being the arbiters of deciding who I am allowed to listen too. Most people (I hope ) are intelligent enough to decide for themselves if a person is a nut job.
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No other species on earth lives after it is no longer productive - but we do. And we all like to live as long as possible. Is that good, healthy and natural?
Most whale species do, as do elephants.
Don't know about the whales, but I see elephants with glasses and in wheel-chairs all the time...
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Don't know about the whales, but I see elephants with glasses and in wheel-chairs all the time...
You need to stop taking the hallucinogenics ;)
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Don't know about the whales, but I see elephants with glasses and in wheel-chairs all the time...
I don't know what you've been smoking, but can I get some of it...?! :eek
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I have got a feeling they are going to abandon 2 jabs. The "Science" and data will, of course be amended to accomadate.
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I have got a feeling they are going to abandon 2 jabs. The "Science" and data will, of course be amended to accomadate.
You're not the first person i've heard suggest that.
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BoJo ordered 340 million vaccines (about three times as many as we'd need!)
If he starts flogging them off before everyone gets a second jab, he's going to have a lot of *very* pissed off people asking questions.
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We could give them to the EU -----but France and Germany don't want the Ox AZ France has been saying the BRITISH vax basically does not work in over 65s and so wont give it out.
NEWS JUST IN TODAYFrance has now changed its mind based on "encouraging" preliminary results of a large-scale study on the impact of the vaccine on COVID-19 hospitalizations among the Scottish population.THE SCOTTISH population !!
France couldn't bring themselves to say British. But instead stroking crooked krankies bonnet to keep her purring and wanting to leave the UK and join the EU.
Or we could give them to poorer countries.
Or keep the order but change the formula because we are going to need 4 different jab a year to keep up with mutations.
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We could give them to the EU -----but France and Germany don't want the Ox AZ France has been saying the BRITISH vax basically does not work in over 65s and so wont give it out.
NEWS JUST IN TODAYFrance has now changed its mind based on "encouraging" preliminary results of a large-scale study on the impact of the vaccine on COVID-19 hospitalizations among the Scottish population.THE SCOTTISH population !!
France couldn't bring themselves to say British. But instead stroking crooked krankies bonnet to keep her purring and wanting to leave the UK and join the EU.
Or we could give them to poorer countries.
Or keep the order but change the formula because we are going to need 4 different jab a year to keep up with mutations.
France has now said the AZ one is OK for under 75's
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We could give them to the EU -----but France and Germany don't want the Ox AZ France has been saying the BRITISH vax basically does not work in over 65s and so wont give it out.NEWS JUST IN TODAYFrance has now changed its mind based on "encouraging" preliminary results of a large-scale study on the impact of the vaccine on COVID-19 hospitalizations among the Scottish population.THE SCOTTISH population !! France couldn't bring themselves to say British. But instead stroking crooked krankies bonnet to keep her purring and wanting to leave the UK and join the EU.
You seem to be straying into politics here tsk tsk :fish
Anyway, just to correct you, France and Germany (and others) didn't say 'it didn't work'. They said the data was incomplete. Now perhaps the Scottish data is complete. As for Britain, Johnson can't even keep data on how many children he has, let alone count effective vaccine doses.
:oops I seem to have strayed into politics too. :smash
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We could give them to the EU -----but France and Germany don't want the Ox AZ France has been saying the BRITISH vax basically does not work in over 65s and so wont give it out.NEWS JUST IN TODAYFrance has now changed its mind based on "encouraging" preliminary results of a large-scale study on the impact of the vaccine on COVID-19 hospitalizations among the Scottish population.THE SCOTTISH population !! France couldn't bring themselves to say British. But instead stroking crooked krankies bonnet to keep her purring and wanting to leave the UK and join the EU.
You seem to be straying into politics here tsk tsk :fish
Anyway, just to correct you, France and Germany (and others) didn't say 'it didn't work'. They said the data was incomplete. Now perhaps the Scottish data is complete. As for Britain, Johnson can't even keep data on how many children he has, let alone count effective vaccine doses.
:oops I seem to have strayed into politics too. :smash
I remind you of whos thread it is and my first post said this
MY POLL - MY RULES. NO NAME CALLING, STAY POLITE AND DON'T GIVE THE MODS AN EXCUSE TO CANCEL
So I am happy for it to stray into politics - after all Germany and France started it cause they are unhappy its a British success and they get their noses rubbed in it by just having the name Oxford :lol
Don't give a Sh1t how many kids Johnson has - totally irrelevant to the conversation. Correct France said "data was incomplete" but that was the same data we used to jab the over 80s first.
Again none of this France and Gremany Ox AZ refusal or 100s of thousands of unused Ox az going to waste in empty vaccine hubs because the likes of Merkel have said they wont have it in her arm. None of this is on the BBC or Sky news.
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Germany and France started it cause they are unhappy its a British success and they get their noses rubbed in it by just having the name Oxford
With Germany's death rate less than half that of the UK, I don't think they need any lessons from us :rolleyes
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BoJo ordered 340 million vaccines (about three times as many as we'd need!)
If he starts flogging them off before everyone gets a second jab, he's going to have a lot of *very* pissed off people asking questions.
Perhaps the govt foresees that we'll need an annual top up to keep on top of mutations
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We could give them to the EU -----but France and Germany don't want the Ox AZ France has been saying the BRITISH vax basically does not work in over 65s and so wont give it out.NEWS JUST IN TODAYFrance has now changed its mind based on "encouraging" preliminary results of a large-scale study on the impact of the vaccine on COVID-19 hospitalizations among the Scottish population.THE SCOTTISH population !! France couldn't bring themselves to say British. But instead stroking crooked krankies bonnet to keep her purring and wanting to leave the UK and join the EU.
You seem to be straying into politics here tsk tsk :fish
Anyway, just to correct you, France and Germany (and others) didn't say 'it didn't work'. They said the data was incomplete. Now perhaps the Scottish data is complete. As for Britain, Johnson can't even keep data on how many children he has, let alone count effective vaccine doses.
:oops I seem to have strayed into politics too. :smash
Nope, thats not politics, thats personal :stop
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Nope, thats not politics, thats personal
Not sure where, but I'll take your word for it.
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Nope, thats not politics, thats personal
Not sure where, but I'll take your word for it.
Talking about how many children borris has got. What's the relevance to a debate about anything covid.
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Neither has referring to the Scottish First Minister as 'crooked krankie'. So let's call it a draw :lol
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Mtread. Have you had your vax yet.
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Yep. First dose.
Waiting for the funny.... ;)
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Yep. First dose.
Waiting for the funny.... ;)
No funny.
MY mate who had a bad time after receiving the first are not looking forward to the second.
Starting to think what's the point in carrying on vaxing ever younger and younger who statistically don't get hospitalised. Just stop at 60 as an age but then carry on with all the (any age) vulnerable and people in jobs that have a lot of public contact. And then anyone else who wants it. Otherwise
I think that before all the first jabbers have had the second we will be facing a new more nasty variant that the current jabs wont touch. So what then - skip the second jab and have the new jab instead that is designed for the new strain.
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Three of us have had the first dose of AstraZeneca. Wife and daughter (care worker) had a bad 24 hours afterwards, both taken to bed with headaches and shivers. Me, nothing at all. Perhaps I'm the one who should be worried!
I think you may be right. With so many natural mutations, the existing vaccines will not be guaranteed effective, and we will all be chasing new vaccine versions for some time.
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Three of us have had the first dose of AstraZeneca. Wife and daughter (care worker) had a bad 24 hours afterwards, both taken to bed with headaches and shivers. Me, nothing at all. Perhaps I'm the one who should be worried!
Well yes that was my observation a few post ago when doctors and scientists were playing down any side effects they said that (from memory) "you want side effects because that shows that your imune system is doing its job and mounting a response"
So by that rationale - no side effects - no immune response- no protection. There is another constant from the trails that the young are more likely to have a and or more severe reaction. But that is probably down to the fact that the trials did not have enough over 65s in it to get popper results on that. Which brings us back to the reason the EU up until now not giving it to over 65s.
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My GF, who has severe asthma, had her first jab at the end of January.
A couple of weeks ago on Saturday, despite her having been shielding for over a year, she called me downstairs saying she was not feeling well. We thought it was just another asthma flare up, but called 111 and, having been told her symptoms, they sent an ambulance.
It ended up with her being taken into hospital overnight where they confirmed that she'd contracted COVID-19. (We guess it was from a dodgy packet or food delivery she's had.)
On Friday, we'd been cuddling, on the Saturday, I spent over an hour right next to her whilst she was coughing etc, yet, even though I haven't had a jab yet, I have *not* shown any signs of the virus, even though it would normally be pretty much guaranteed that she'd have been contagious had she not had the jab.
Also she has (especially given her asthma) had a very mild case. Yes, she's been coughing, had a temperature and been tired, but, compared to some of the possible symptoms, she's got off lightly and I've got away scot free.
Now, of course this is only a single example, but it's an interesting data point.
ADDENDUM: When she had the jab, she did have some aches and felt a bit off, but nothing major.
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My GF, who has severe asthma, had her first jab at the end of January.
A couple of weeks ago on Saturday, despite her having been shielding for over a year, she called me downstairs saying she was not feeling well. We thought it was just another asthma flare up, but called 111 and, having been told her symptoms, they sent an ambulance.
It ended up with her being taken into hospital overnight where they confirmed that she'd contracted COVID-19. (We guess it was from a dodgy packet or food delivery she's had.)
On Friday, we'd been cuddling, on the Saturday, I spent over an hour right next to her whilst she was coughing etc, yet, even though I haven't had a jab yet, I have *not* shown any signs of the virus, even though it would normally be pretty much guaranteed that she'd have been contagious had she not had the jab.
Also she has (especially given her asthma) had a very mild case. Yes, she's been coughing, had a temperature and been tired, but, compared to some of the possible symptoms, she's got off lightly and I've got away scot free.
Now, of course this is only a single example, but it's an interesting data point.
ADDENDUM: When she had the jab, she did have some aches and felt a bit off, but nothing major.
That is interesting.
confirmed that she'd contracted COVID-19. (We guess it was from a dodgy packet or food delivery she's had.)
What do you mean.
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confirmed that she'd contracted COVID-19. (We guess it was from a dodgy packet or food delivery she's had.)
What do you mean.
Because she can't go out, she's been ordering stuff she needs online, including getting take-out meals delivered.
If someone who packed one of the deliveries or made one of those meals was contagious and didn't know (or, worse, knew, but worked anyway!) then she could have picked it up that way.
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confirmed that she'd contracted COVID-19. (We guess it was from a dodgy packet or food delivery she's had.)
What do you mean.
Because she can't go out, she's been ordering stuff she needs online, including getting take-out meals delivered.
If someone who packed one of the deliveries or made one of those meals was contagious and didn't know (or, worse, knew, but worked anyway!) then she could have picked it up that way.
But we are being told that you can not catch it from packaging or post.
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Three of us have had the first dose of AstraZeneca. Wife and daughter (care worker) had a bad 24 hours afterwards, both taken to bed with headaches and shivers. Me, nothing at all. Perhaps I'm the one who should be worried!
Well yes that was my observation a few post ago when doctors and scientists were playing down any side effects they said that (from memory) "you want side effects because that shows that your imune system is doing its job and mounting a response"
So by that rationale - no side effects - no immune response- no protection. There is another constant from the trails that the young are more likely to have a and or more severe reaction. But that is probably down to the fact that the trials did not have enough over 65s in it to get popper results on that. Which brings us back to the reason the EU up until now not giving it to over 65s.
"Maybe" there were no side effects because the antibodies were already in place due to a previous infection, and simply did their job effectively?
Whereas people who get side effects may have to produce the antibodies from scratch, which is the whole point of the exercise, to lay dormant and ready for a future attack.
Sounds good in my head anyway :lol
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Three of us have had the first dose of AstraZeneca. Wife and daughter (care worker) had a bad 24 hours afterwards, both taken to bed with headaches and shivers. Me, nothing at all. Perhaps I'm the one who should be worried!
Well yes that was my observation a few post ago when doctors and scientists were playing down any side effects they said that (from memory) "you want side effects because that shows that your imune system is doing its job and mounting a response"
So by that rationale - no side effects - no immune response- no protection. There is another constant from the trails that the young are more likely to have a and or more severe reaction. But that is probably down to the fact that the trials did not have enough over 65s in it to get popper results on that. Which brings us back to the reason the EU up until now not giving it to over 65s.
"Maybe" there were no side effects because the antibodies were already in place due to a previous infection, and simply did their job effectively?
Whereas people who get side effects may have to produce the antibodies from scratch, which is the whole point of the exercise, to lay dormant and ready for a future attack.
Sounds good in my head anyway :lol
But i think i remember reading in a scientist study or something that you get more of a reaction if you have already had covid
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Three of us have had the first dose of AstraZeneca. Wife and daughter (care worker) had a bad 24 hours afterwards, both taken to bed with headaches and shivers. Me, nothing at all. Perhaps I'm the one who should be worried!
Well yes that was my observation a few post ago when doctors and scientists were playing down any side effects they said that (from memory) "you want side effects because that shows that your imune system is doing its job and mounting a response"
So by that rationale - no side effects - no immune response- no protection. There is another constant from the trails that the young are more likely to have a and or more severe reaction. But that is probably down to the fact that the trials did not have enough over 65s in it to get popper results on that. Which brings us back to the reason the EU up until now not giving it to over 65s.
"Maybe" there were no side effects because the antibodies were already in place due to a previous infection, and simply did their job effectively?
Whereas people who get side effects may have to produce the antibodies from scratch, which is the whole point of the exercise, to lay dormant and ready for a future attack.
Sounds good in my head anyway :lol
But i think i remember reading in a scientist study or something that you get more of a reaction if you have already had covid
No big deal if you get a reaction or not as far as I'm concerned?
Will just remind of the good old days when you'd get 2 or 3 colds a year and feel like shite?
With all this distancing, mask wearing and isolating my breathing has never been better and I can't even remember the last time I had even a hint of a cold?
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But we are being told that you can not catch it from packaging or post.
Not exactly.
And, with takeaway food, it rather requires them to have taken proper precautions...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-for-consumers-on-coronavirus-covid-19-and-food/guidance-for-consumers-on-coronavirus-covid-19-and-food (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-for-consumers-on-coronavirus-covid-19-and-food/guidance-for-consumers-on-coronavirus-covid-19-and-food)
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But we are being told that you can not catch it from packaging or post.
Not exactly.
And, with takeaway food, it rather requires them to have taken proper precautions...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-for-consumers-on-coronavirus-covid-19-and-food/guidance-for-consumers-on-coronavirus-covid-19-and-food (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-for-consumers-on-coronavirus-covid-19-and-food/guidance-for-consumers-on-coronavirus-covid-19-and-food)
I don't believe what I'm told and so clean down all packaging when I bring the shopping home from the supermarket. Told (very unlikely ) to contract it from packaging but want you to not to use cash. Lab test show the virus can live on some surfaces for up to 72 hours, although a lab is not real life conditions.
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Yay! Booked my first Covid Jab for the 22nd!
BTW I just thought I would let you all know that I volunteered for the Russian Vaccine Trial for Covid-19. It's been kept very, very quiet for security reasons. I received my first “jab” and wanted to reassure you all that it’s completely safe with иo side effects whatsoeveя, and that I feelshκι χoρoshό я чувствую себя немного странно и я думаю, что вытащил ослиные уши, comrades. :lol
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The BBC and Sky make my blood boil sometimes. When not in a lockdown they bang on at the press conference about "Why aren't we in one" then when we are in one they say "why have you shut down this or that" They have been banging on about boris "killing people" with too late lock down or too early lockdown release. So now they are moaning why cant we do the 4 stages quicker. Prompting borris to send out his scientist puppets to give warnings about going too fast. The media news just do stuff to make their own news stories
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A PS to my post about booking my Covid Jab:
They were offering vaccination centres based on straight-line distance.
So they suggested I could get one on the Isle of Wight... :rolleyes
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My mate has just been informed that their 2nd jab is to be delayed by a week so it will now be 13 weeks after the first.
Also Found this on the BBC website thought was interesting https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56375307 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56375307) it pretty much backs up everything have said about the old not having side effects and people who have had covid in the past having a worse reaction than someone who has not had it.
My mate is convinced they had it last Feb to mid march.
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My mate has just been informed that their 2nd jab is to be delayed by a week so it will now be 13 weeks after the first.
Also Found this on the BBC website thought was interesting https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56375307 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56375307) it pretty much backs up everything have said about the old not having side effects and people who have had covid in the past having a worse reaction than someone who has not had it.
My mate is convinced they had it last Feb to mid march.
I'm almost certain i had it in Nov'19, but as i've had the vaccine now there is no way of ever knowing for sure.
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Got mine booked for this coming Saturday now.
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My mate had their second jab cancelled and postponed by a week to 13 weeks.
This from Jenrick.
"Anyone with an appointment for a second jab "should have complete confidence" that they will go ahead," :rolleyes [/size] [/color]
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Well someone is lying somewhere 🙄 the NHS keep saying there is going to be a shortage of vaccines from the end of March and as such have apparently been told to stop booking more people for April but both vaccine companies have denied there is a supply issue, its been co formed that its nothing to do with the EU spat.... so why is there going to be an issue?
Either the government is lying and just trying to slow down the vaccination program or the suppliers are outright lying about supply??
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Man made population cull IMHO.
Don't believe owt they tell us, it's dodgy a fook a tell thee.
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My mate had their second jab cancelled and postponed by a week to 13 weeks.
This from Jenrick.
"Anyone with an appointment for a second jab "should have complete confidence" that they will go ahead," :rolleyes
I was speaking to my 95+ year old neighbour yesterday. She is due her 2nd dose next Friday based on the 12 week wait but does not have an appointment yet.
I did say to people several weeks ago that unless they increased supply and capacity for the jabs they would have issues as soon as 2nd jabs were due. This is down to the fact they want the 1st jab rate to continue at the same pace it has been achieving. Even the simplest of people (which is why MP's and ministers cannot see it) can tell that if you have 500,000 (or whatever the number is) doses of the vaccine and capacity to deploy the same you can only deliver 500,000 doses so to ensure people get their 2nd doses, you have to suspend 1st doses. They wont do this though so the 2nd doses will be postponed again. Eventually it will get to the point where we are well beyond 12 weeks and end up having to have annual boosters instead.
Simple math time if doing it as annual boosters - 50M doses = about 1M a week every week infinitum until Covid-19 goes the same way as tuberculosis etc
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Yep as I said Feb 13th
I have a feeling that there are going to be issues with the second jab rollout. There is such a massive push from the gov to hit the target of 15M that all stops have been pulled out, to date less than 500,000 have had their second jab. I cannot see the second phase rollout to lower age groups continuing at the same pace as they rush to give the second dose before 12 weeks. Wouldn't surprise me if the 12 weeks gets pushed back.
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Both my wife & I had our first jab on 7th Jan & our 2nd one yesterday, 17th March.
The health centre wasn't particularly busy yesterday-straight in and out after the15 minute wait to check no adverse reaction.
Well organised here in Birmingham.
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The pm is having the az jab today. As he has had covid back in April I predict that he is going to get a kicking from the side effects. Probably planned for him to have it on Friday so he can "disappear" from public view for a few days. Otherwise its not going to be a good advert for the jab.
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Well I got a sms for the NHS direct, booked that yesterday. And then got a text from my local surgery today. So 2 different bodies nation/local offered me a vaccination :rolleyes
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Well I got a sms for the NHS direct, booked that yesterday. And then got a text from my local surgery today. So 2 different bodies nation/local offered me a vaccination :rolleyes
I got the invite text from my GP on Tuesday and from the NHS yesterday.
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Well I got a sms for the NHS direct, booked that yesterday. And then got a text from my local surgery today. So 2 different bodies nation/local offered me a vaccination :rolleyes
Yep, I got the NHS first, booked it, then got one from my GP. I did think about trying to see if I could an earlier slot with my GP, but decided not to ;)
Still, I prefer to have been offered twice than not at all...!
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If you booked via the NHS, do they make appointments for you for both jabs, or just the first. My appt was booked via my GP and have no 2nd jab date. Whereas most people I've spoken to who booked via the NHS, got both appts arranged.
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If you booked via the NHS, do they make appointments for you for both jabs, or just the first. My appt was booked via my GP and have no 2nd jab date. Whereas most people I've spoken to who booked via the NHS, got both appts arranged.
Yes, that's what happened in my case. Got both dates arranged on the NHS Covid website
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If you booked via the NHS, do they make appointments for you for both jabs, or just the first. My appt was booked via my GP and have no 2nd jab date. Whereas most people I've spoken to who booked via the NHS, got both appts arranged.
Yes, that's what happened in my case. Got both dates arranged on the NHS Covid website
Cool, thanks for your reply :thumbup
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If you booked via the NHS, do they make appointments for you for both jabs, or just the first.
With the NHS I *had* to book both jabs.
This actually caused a slight issue as, after I'd booked my first one, there wasn't a second one available in the 12 week window, so I had to change the first slot and then it was ok :thumbup
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Went for the jab this morning (astrazenica) and while checking in they made my 2nd appointment for 11 weeks time.
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Had my Pfizer jab on 11th Feb by text from the docs, but no hint of the next one yet.
I'm quite happy to have the first one to be fair. I never liked people getting close to me anyway so it's all worked out rather well. :lol
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A fantastic achievement isn't it .
Yep a fantastic achievement. Thanks to:
The scientists
AstraZeneca for producing it at an affordable cost
The NHS
The thousands of unpaid volunteers
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...also as Grahamm pointed out a while ago...
BoJo ordered 340 million vaccines
Indeed. And our former partners, who have spent some time convincing their citizens that the AZ vaccine was unsafe, now appear to want to stop exporting it to anyone else. Queen Ursula is not shaping up as a Leader of Nations particularly well
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Both Merkin and Macaroon seem to of have been doing all they can to discredit the Ox Az. First Merkin said she wouldn't even have it, but just announced that she would. Macaroon said it didn't work for over 65s but now are saying to ONLY give it to over 55s. The EU were moaning that we were not exporting any of the vaccine -- THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT :rolleyes . Hungary have said they are frustrated with the slow roll out and have brought into Russian Spudnik and the China Sinopharm vax.
I heard one EU commentator partly blaming eastern EU countries for the slow procurement because the did not want to buy so much of the more expensive vaccines.
Its like a covid hokey cokey. So glad we are out of all of that crap now. Where have all the Germany finger pointers gone who were spouting "look how good they are handling covid"
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Both Merkin and Macaroon seem to of have been doing all they can to discredit the Ox Az. First Merkin said she wouldn't even have it, but just announced that she would. Macaroon said it didn't work for over 65s but now are saying to ONLY give it to over 55s. The EU were moaning that we were not exporting any of the vaccine -- THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT :rolleyes . Hungary have said they are frustrated with the slow roll out and have brought into Russian Spudnik and the China Sinopharm vax.
I heard one EU commentator partly blaming eastern EU countries for the slow procurement because the did not want to buy so much of the more expensive vaccines.
Its like a covid hokey cokey. So glad we are out of all of that crap now. Where have all the Germany finger pointers gone who were spouting "look how good they are handling covid"
Well they may not be vaccinating anyone but the lucky bastards are on holiday in Spain already haha
http://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-german-tourists-flock-to-balearic-islands-as-spain-hopes-to-see-summer-boost-in-tourism-12253591 (http://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-german-tourists-flock-to-balearic-islands-as-spain-hopes-to-see-summer-boost-in-tourism-12253591)
I see our Covid Deaths were around 17 today... Good job we are all still in hiding then 🙄 I know this lockdown was done for the right reasons and we have to maintain course blah blah blah blah
But seriously how much longer are they going to kid themselves that we are in an actual lockdown 🙈
I think we are very much at the point where we are ready to just get on with it and see what happens. As a nation we are fed up 😴
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BoJo ordered 340 million vaccines
Yep, about the same amount of effort as wasting £37 billion on Test and Trace.....
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Where have all the Germany finger pointers gone who were spouting "look how good they are handling covid"
Here we are :) Germany still has a far lower death rate than UK. Johnson is now predicting a third wave will arrive here. It ain't over yet. We've got nothing to boast about.
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Where have all the Germany finger pointers gone who were spouting "look how good they are handling covid"
Here we are :) Germany still has a far lower death rate than UK. Johnson is now predicting a third wave will arrive here. It ain't over yet. We've got nothing to boast about.
You mean this --Prime Minister Boris Johnson has warned that the third wave of Covid from European countries will “wash up on our shores”.
So our 3rd wave is going to come from Germany.
How could we have a 3rd wave when everyone / most adults have been vaccinated. Could we of been mislead about the vax all along. We keep being told - the quicker we all get the vax the quicker we can return to normal. We need to keep a tight lid on incoming and outgoing flights and ports. Trump was 100% right when he banned flights.
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Just got back from having my first Jab, Oxford AZ :thumbup
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Just got back from having my first Jab, Oxford AZ :thumbup
Let us know how you get on with side effects.
Have we seen Borris since Friday when he had his Jab
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So our 3rd wave is going to come from Germany.
Only fair, we gave them the second 'Kent' wave ;)
It seems that the virus naturally mutates, wherever it is. The vaccine(s) will be playing catchup for some time.
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Have we seen Borris since Friday when he had his Jab
Yes, he's just been on the BBC News.
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Have we seen Borris since Friday when he had his Jab
Yes, he's just been on the BBC News.
Sounds like he got away without any symptoms.
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Have we seen Borris since Friday when he had his Jab
Yes, he's just been on the BBC News.
Sounds like he got away without any symptoms.
Apart from the bruise on the arm where the needle went in, I am currently symptom free still since the jab on Saturday morning. A friend who got theirs Saturday afternoon was suffering yesterday afternoon.
Based on the people I know who have had the vaccine (mostly the AZ one) Seems to be 50/50 if you have any symptoms and then 25% of those that do get symptoms get the "feeling really crap" ones.
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Apart from the bruise on the arm where the needle went in, I am currently symptom free still since the jab on Saturday morning. A friend who got theirs Saturday afternoon was suffering yesterday afternoon.Based on the people I know who have had the vaccine (mostly the AZ one) Seems to be 50/50 if you have any symptoms and then 25% of those that do get symptoms get the "feeling really crap" ones.
Yes, from people I know it's about 50/50, and any symptoms turn up within 24-48 hours.
One friend of mine had a severe allergic reaction and had to be pumped full of antihistamine for 24 hours. He's fully recovered now though.
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Let us know how you get on with side effects.
Six hours on, no side effects so fa-
I AM GRAHAMM OF BORG. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED!
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Let us know how you get on with side effects.
Six hours on, no side effects so fa-
I AM GRAHAMM OF BORG. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED!
My mates kicked in about 16 hours later about 4am. You got time yet.
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Boasting would be improper, but our highly successful vaccination programme is certainly nothing to be ashamed of.Almost 28 million first vaccines adminstered and over 2 million second doses so far.
Of course it isn't to be ashamed of, but:
We should have locked down earlier and tighter
Stopped foreign travel
Created an efficient test and trace system that worked
Not opened up so much in the summer
Not created 'eat out to help out'
Paid workers to self isolate
Listened to the scientists
Then we wouldn't have lost so many
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28 million is really 14 million. The proof will be the second dose, things will start slowing down, they've already put that out there so you know it's not going to be significant. I'm also lead to believe nearly all the second doses are for those who had Pfizer vaccine, not the Astrazeneca which the vast majority of the 28 million or so, who have had their first jab.
The gamble is can they keep the second level jab going at the same pace as the first and keep rolling out first jabs, I wouldn't bet on it!
The EU are also now coming on line as it the rest of the world, things will slow down and there's little point in all of us be vaccinated if most of the world isn't.
Test and trace ring any bells, lets go for the number, I know lets split a test and call each element a test, bingo over night 250k turns into 500k :evil
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Boasting would be improper, but our highly successful vaccination programme is certainly nothing to be ashamed of.Almost 28 million first vaccines adminstered and over 2 million second doses so far.
Of course it isn't to be ashamed of, but:
We should have locked down earlier and tighter
Stopped foreign travel
Created an efficient test and trace system that worked
Not opened up so much in the summer
Not created 'eat out to help out'
Paid workers to self isolate
Listened to the scientists
Then we wouldn't have lost so many
While most of your points are valid the "listened to the scientists one" is just a load of pish
If the scientists are so knowledgeable then why are different ones all over the world offering different advice? Even in the UK the scientists used in Scotland are offering different advice to the ones in Wales and the ones in England.
Why is it the Scottish ones have recommended groups of 8 from 4 households can meet up outside yet the ones in England say groups of 6 from 2 households? Why do Children not count towards the number in Scotland and Ireland but they do in Wales and England?
Why do some European Scientists (like Sweden) say lockdowns are pointless and trusting the public to behave is all we need.
Why are some scientists to be believed and trusted but others not?
All this conflicting information from scientists is whats caused so much anti vax, anti mask and anti corona stuff to gain traction and spread.
I think what we should have done is not just listen to the Scientists but actually gather a diverse group of unbiased experts from all over the world and got clear solid advice that every nation had to follow. Then it wouldn't have been up for debate
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28 million is really 14 million.
Eh ?
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Eh ?
:rolleyes somebody tell him :rollin :rollin :rollin
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Eh ?
:rolleyes somebody tell him :rollin :rollin :rollin
You try. 28M have had the 1st dose.
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:agree
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You try. 28M have had the 1st dose.
Correct, but 2 jabs make up a vaccination, which means 28 million odd have half their dose. You're supposed to get the second within 6 weeks, which rapidly turned into 12, so as to get the number. Which does make sense if you can guarantee you get the second, within 6 - 12weeks, already I'm reading people are being given 13wks plus. Not to mention the "been offered by May, June whatever" statements, I know of people over 50 their appointment for first jab is May!
Now what is unclear at present is what happens if you go beyond 12, 13, 14 weeks.
This issue now isn't how many have been jabbed, but how many can they jab for a second time, within the now 12 week window and keep the rate of vaccination going for the remaining 30 odd million and deliver their second jab. All this why on the continent the S Africa variant is growing, if allowed to unchecked it will get here, as Boris told us yesterday and our jab isn't as effective some reports put it as low as 50% . At present they just don't know.
The point is, us just racing off in the distance doesn't grantee us safety, in fact it could be the opposite, i.e. we've packed in haste and forgotten the passport! Until Westminster types understand there's no quick win and we're all in the same boat, ok so their ends sinks bit quicker than ours, but the boat still going to sink!
The real driver here is do we protect people or money, that's the real question the Western World has to answer.
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While most of your points are valid the "listened to the scientists one" is just a load of pish
I don't believe any of the scientists :
Told Johnson it was OK to shake everybody's hand in hospital
Gave approval for the Cheltenham Festival to go ahead
Told Sunak he should be a pretend waiter and not wear a mask
Say it was OK to drive to Barnard Castle to test your eyesight
... and so many more
Those were all political decisions, and why we are where we are.
I'd rather listen to a virologist than Karen from Maidstone :)
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Correct, but 2 jabs make up a vaccination
The scientists told us it gives at least 70% protection with the first jab.
You're supposed to get the second within 6 weeks, which rapidly turned into 12, so as to get the number.
The scientists told us its ok to move to 12 weeks, and even that it is better.
Are we not to listen to the scientists now then.
Mtread disagrees with you.
We should have
Listened to the scientists
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- Created an efficient test and trace system that worked
- I don't believe any of the scientists :
- Say it was OK to drive to Barnard Castle to test your eyesight
- So one that didn't invade personal privacy? or allowed the government or 3rd parties to track your every move? or that could be trusted not to get hacked and leak all your personal, confidential and or medial info as it will have been linked to your NHS record....
- if not them then who exactly....
- I'll think you find that was an unelected adviser with no medial or scientistic authority coming up with an excuse when he got pulled over by the police that was the equivalent of the 'dog ate my homework'...
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- Created an efficient test and trace system that worked
- I don't believe any of the scientists :
- Say it was OK to drive to Barnard Castle to test your eyesight
- So one that didn't invade personal privacy? or allowed the government or 3rd parties to track your every move? or that could be trusted not to get hacked and leak all your personal, confidential and or medial info as it will have been linked to your NHS record....
- if not them then who exactly....
- I'll think you find that was an unelected adviser with no medial or scientistic authority coming up with an excuse when he got pulled over by the police that was the equivalent of the 'dog ate my homework'...
That is not the context that mtread was writing/ commentating in.
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Indeed. Someone's jumbled up my comments
I certainly do believe the scientists, rather than politicians or indeed people with unqualified opinions.
Our politicians have suffered an excess of confidence over competence.
I believe the problem with test and trace wasn't the privacy side. It was that it didn't test, and it didn't trace.
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Stop with the political posts or this topic will get locked.
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Stop with the political posts or this topic will get locked.
Why - everyone is behaving nice as far as I am concerned. Its my thread and I do not mind politics - you can not remove it from the subject. So long as every one remains polite.
Did some one complain or something.
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Let us know how you get on with side effects.
Six hours on, no side effects so fa-
I AM GRAHAMM OF BORG. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED!
How are you doing.
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- Indeed. Someone's jumbled up my comments
- I believe the problem with test and trace wasn't the privacy side. It was that it didn't test, and it didn't trace.
- Apologies, it wasn't obvious from your post I quoted from.
- Well crap software aside, it was never meant to test, only trace. But the privacy concerns and the fact the info was flowing through google/apple, so for a lot of people me included, it was a hard no. Had it been made law, I would have simply gotten my old Nokia 3310 out of the kitchen drawer.
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Are we talking about the NHS app that was used to scan yourself in to the pub.
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How are you doing.
24 hours on and I've only had a very slight "bruise" feeling where the jab was done and I was pretty tired this evening.
I did do a gentle work out today, but just 15 minutes at level 1 on my cross trainer, rather than the usual High Intensity version and no other exercises.
So, looking good so far...
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Are we talking about the NHS app that was used to scan yourself in to the pub.
I would have to check, but I think its the same app.
24 hours on and I've only had a very slight "bruise" feeling where the jab was done and I was pretty tired this evening.
Same, the day after felt no worse than the day after a good drinking session, lethargic and slightly over-tired.
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Stop with the political posts or this topic will get locked.
No politics here. It's about Covid-19 and the effectiveness of the campaign. All come in for assessment, praise and criticism - scientists, the EU, other countries, the NHS and of course our government.
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BBrown did have a point. It could of took off. Try and keep the politics relevant please.
I am NO fan of the government - or the other lot - or ANY lot. But I find jibes about getting eyesight tested at a castle completely boring and nothing to do with the conversation.
For clarity I do not think he should of quit --no unelected adviser/sage/guru should of been there in the first place.
Back on subject - news today headlines of vaxing 6 year olds :eek How many people are comfortable with that.
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I suppose it may eventually become part of the general vaccination programme, and added to the list that children have in their early years.
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BBrown did have a point. It could of took off. Try and keep the politics relevant please.
I am NO fan of the government - or the other lot - or ANY lot. But I find jibes about getting eyesight tested at a castle completely boring and nothing to do with the conversation.
For clarity I do not think he should of quit --no unelected adviser/sage/guru should of been there in the first place.
Back on subject - news today headlines of vaxing 6 year olds :eek How many people are comfortable with that.
Well I know would be very reluctant to put my kids forward for it if they do.
I can't really see the point of vaccinating children that young when then very rarely ever catch it and even when they do barely any actually get ill.
I think it would be more obviously to vaccinate secondary school "children" first as they seem to be one of the worst spreaders.
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BBrown did have a point. It could of took off. Try and keep the politics relevant please. I am NO fan of the government - or the other lot - or ANY lot. But I find jibes about getting eyesight tested at a castle completely boring and nothing to do with the conversation.
OK it's a deal. I won't jibe about Cummings if you don't about 'Merkin and Macaroon' ;)
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BBrown did have a point. It could of took off. Try and keep the politics relevant please. I am NO fan of the government - or the other lot - or ANY lot. But I find jibes about getting eyesight tested at a castle completely boring and nothing to do with the conversation.
OK it's a deal. I won't jibe about Cummings if you don't about 'Merkin and Macaroon' ;)
No deal - feel free to carry with cummings - I don't care for him either :rollin
I envy you really - you only have to spend your energy hating the conservatories, I hate them all.
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BBrown did have a point. It could of took off. Try and keep the politics relevant please.
I am NO fan of the government - or the other lot - or ANY lot. But I find jibes about getting eyesight tested at a castle completely boring and nothing to do with the conversation.
For clarity I do not think he should of quit --no unelected adviser/sage/guru should of been there in the first place.
Back on subject - news today headlines of vaxing 6 year olds :eek How many people are comfortable with that.
Well I know would be very reluctant to put my kids forward for it if they do.
I can't really see the point of vaccinating children that young when then very rarely ever catch it and even when they do barely any actually get ill.
I think it would be more obviously to vaccinate secondary school "children" first as they seem to be one of the worst spreaders.
I mentioned it because i wonder how many people who have been saying "its safe you are an anti vaxer" but then when it comes to their 6 year old kids --- hmm--err--- well-- ah.
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BBrown did have a point. It could of took off. Try and keep the politics relevant please.
I am NO fan of the government - or the other lot - or ANY lot. But I find jibes about getting eyesight tested at a castle completely boring and nothing to do with the conversation.
For clarity I do not think he should of quit --no unelected adviser/sage/guru should of been there in the first place.
Back on subject - news today headlines of vaxing 6 year olds :eek How many people are comfortable with that.
Well I know would be very reluctant to put my kids forward for it if they do.
I can't really see the point of vaccinating children that young when then very rarely ever catch it and even when they do barely any actually get ill.
I think it would be more obviously to vaccinate secondary school "children" first as they seem to be one of the worst spreaders.
I mentioned it because i wonder how many people who have been saying "its safe you are an anti vaxer" but then when it comes to their 6 year old kids --- hmm--err--- well-- ah.
Yes but let's be fair its a bit of a different scenario.
As an adult I can weigh up any potential risks and any possibility that it may harm me later in life and make a decision.
Where as for my children they have their whole lives ahead of then for any adverse effects to happen.
As a father of a young girl I can't even imagine the anguish if I forced the jab on her now only to find out in 10 years that an unknown side effect is sterility or some other kind of problems that would stop her having kids.
And before you say it... I know the scientists say its safe but they said that about the Thalidomide too and look how that turned out.
I'm just not certain I would be willing to risk something like that for a vaccine against an illness that for the most part isn't going to hurt her. I would rather she waited until she could make that choice herself, by which time the vaccine would have been in circulation for quite a few years and potentially any long term issues (or lack of) will be known
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BBrown did have a point. It could of took off. Try and keep the politics relevant please.
I am NO fan of the government - or the other lot - or ANY lot. But I find jibes about getting eyesight tested at a castle completely boring and nothing to do with the conversation.
For clarity I do not think he should of quit --no unelected adviser/sage/guru should of been there in the first place.
Back on subject - news today headlines of vaxing 6 year olds :eek How many people are comfortable with that.
Well I know would be very reluctant to put my kids forward for it if they do.
I can't really see the point of vaccinating children that young when then very rarely ever catch it and even when they do barely any actually get ill.
I think it would be more obviously to vaccinate secondary school "children" first as they seem to be one of the worst spreaders.
I mentioned it because i wonder how many people who have been saying "its safe you are an anti vaxer" but then when it comes to their 6 year old kids --- hmm--err--- well-- ah.
Yes but let's be fair its a bit of a different scenario.
As an adult I can weigh up any potential risks and any possibility that it may harm me later in life and make a decision.
Where as for my children they have their whole lives ahead of then for any adverse effects to happen.
As a father of a young girl I can't even imagine the anguish if I forced the jab on her now only to find out in 10 years that an unknown side effect is sterility or some other kind of problems that would stop her having kids.
And before you say it... I know the scientists say its safe but they said that about the Thalidomide too and look how that turned out.
I'm just not certain I would be willing to risk something like that for a vaccine against an illness that for the most part isn't going to hurt her. I would rather she waited until she could make that choice herself, by which time the vaccine would have been in circulation for quite a few years and potentially any long term issues (or lack of) will be known
Yes I agree with you. So what's wrong with adults applying that same principle to themselves. Not aimed at you -by the way.
These vaccines as far as I can find out are actually classed as experimental until full process is carried out and that wont be until 2023 -- anyone please check.
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These vaccines as far as I can find out are actually classed as experimental until full process is carried out and that wont be until 2023 -- anyone please check.
Any medical drug is classed as "experimental" for a condition until it has been subject to a full Double-Blind test where half the subjects are given the drug and the other half are given a placebo, but neither the patient, nor the doctors who are administering it know which is which.
That doesn't stop many drugs being given perfectly successfully "Off label" for conditions that they haven't been officially approved for.
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Latest from the EU they are basically blaming the UK Kent strain for the spread :z
How come they are suffering more from it that we are. Its AstraZeneca's fault -- its the UK's fault (failure to export a vax they didn't want)-- Its Hungary's fault -- Its Kent's fault. :rolleyes Anyone's but themselves.
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48 (and a bit) hours later and I'm fine :thumbup
Yesterday evening I was pretty tired, so snoozed for an hour or two, but later on I was tired again and went to bed before midnight (when usually it's gone 2am!)
I slept for over 9 hours instead of my usual 6-7 hours, but woke up feeling fine.
I did a light 15 minutes on my rowing machine in the early afternoon and was ok with that and I'm feeling ok now, so I guess I'm one of the 90% who didn't get any untoward reaction.
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Same, the day after felt no worse than the day after a good drinking session, lethargic and slightly over-tired.
Sanp, all back to normal in 24 hrs :)
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removed the off topic posts.
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Sanp, all back to normal in 24 hrs :)
Weirdly, I went to bed at 2am last night as usual, but then woke up about 6am and, after an hour or so of being unable to get back to sleep I got up and I've been working for the last three hours!
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With more and more talk now of vaccine passports for the pub or footy, saga cruises requiring proof. I think its time to remind every one what I said back in 11th November 2020. The very first post on this thread.
I don't feel it will be directly compulsory but I predict it may as well be because without a piece paper saying you have had the vaccine you will not be allowed to do almost anything
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I received my vax invitation via post but I don't think I am eligible because I do not see myself represented on the accompanying leaflet.
[image removed - bkd]
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With more and more talk now of vaccine passports for the pub or footy
I think this is just another bit of rhetoric that will be quietly forgotten about once the headlines have died down.
It will discriminate against people who can't have the vaccine for medical reasons, younger people who simply haven't been offered the vaccine yet, those who (as is their right, even if I think it's stupid) decline the jab, people who don't want to have their names added to another government database...
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How and why has my attached image gone to imgur.com (https://imgur.com/VmzAhxy)
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Not a scooby.
Did you use the Attach button?
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Non essential shops given the all clear to open for extended hours and councils instructed to not but unnecessary barriers in the way for it to happen.
I never understood the rationale behind the choice to reduce opening hours last year. It just forced more people in the shops in a smaller shopping window.
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So shops are going to be able to stay open until 10pm.
Who's going to pay the wages for the extra hours?
Who's going to cover the child care for single parent families?
Who's going to pay the extra costs of electricity?
etc etc etc...
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So new council tax bill tipped up yesterday, spotted a £150 COVID relief/hardship entry, reducing the amount I have to pay. Anyone else had this or something like it..?
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So shops are going to be able to stay open until 10pm.
Who's going to pay the wages for the extra hours?
Who's going to cover the child care for single parent families?
Who's going to pay the extra costs of electricity?
etc etc etc...
You are by doing the shopping 🛍
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You are by doing the shopping
That's based on the presumption that people are going to rush back out to their high streets, instead of sticking with the more convenient online shopping they've got used to...
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You are by doing the shopping
That's based on the presumption that people are going to rush back out to their high streets, instead of sticking with the more convenient online shopping they've got used to...
But more and more people will be returning to jobs when non essential and indoor hospitality returns so people won't be at home so much to receive deliveries.
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Got jabbed today.
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Got jabbed today.
Then a couple of uppercuts? :lol
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But more and more people will be returning to jobs when non essential and indoor hospitality returns so people won't be at home so much to receive deliveries.
Well, yeah, a bunch of them will be forced to work until 10pm in shops probably by bosses who will tell them that they won't get paid any more and, if they say they can't do it, well, there's plenty of other people who are desperate for a job...
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Its been 30 hours since my jab and so far i have had zero side effects, apart from it feels like may of stuck a needle in my arm but im not convinced they did.
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Over 30 million UK first vaccinations administered now and more than 3.5 million second doses.
What a fantastic success story :) .
Yes I think I was number 30 million.
I see the EU wanted the UK to export vax to them -or threatened to blockade manufacturers based in EU form sending it to us. So Boris is doing just as he has been told by the EU and is sending 3M doses to the EU -- Ireland :rollin
They don't like it up em :rollin
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What I can't work out is from what I've read there are astrazeneca manufacturers here in the UK as well as in Europe, we are getting vaccines sent in from the Europe plant and the EU are demanding we export some out to them..... so unless I'm missing something, why don't we primarily use the stuff made here and they use the batches made there??
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What I can't work out is from what I've read there are astrazeneca manufacturers here in the UK as well as in Europe, we are getting vaccines sent in from the Europe plant and the EU are demanding we export some out to them..... so unless I'm missing something, why don't we primarily use the stuff made here and they use the batches made there??
I don't think the uk plants can make enough so the AZ plants based in the EU have to chip in, we also get some from India.
But yeh doesn't make sense we get say 5 million from EU based factories and in return they want us to send them 5 million.
This being the vaccine that the EU have done their best to discredit and has resulted in a lot of the population refusing to have it anyway.
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What I can't work out is from what I've read there are astrazeneca manufacturers here in the UK as well as in Europe, we are getting vaccines sent in from the Europe plant and the EU are demanding we export some out to them..... so unless I'm missing something, why don't we primarily use the stuff made here and they use the batches made there??
The majority of UK consumption is sourced from the Netherlands and India. The EU has exported 70 million doses, 20 million doses to the UK. We have exported nothing. No wonder the EU is pissed off. Can you imagine the uproar here if it was the other way round.
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The majority of UK consumption is sourced from the Netherlands and India. The EU has exported 70 million doses, 20 million doses to the UK. We have exported nothing. No wonder the EU is pissed off.
like I said then, we haven't got enough for ourselves, if we send x amount to the EU then we will just need that same amount back from the EU factories.
The EU has not sent a single dose to us. We have a contract with Oxford Az who also have a factory based in a country that happens to be in the EU. Our contract is with Az and not the EU.
This being the vaccine which the development of was mainly funded by the uk.
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The EU has not sent a single dose to us. We have a contract with Oxford Az who also have a factory based in a country that happens to be in the EU. Our contract is with Az and not the EU.
I believe the EU has an (unfulfilled) contract with AZ too. Those are not 'our' doses.
As I said, can you imagine the farage (a new verb) if it was the other way round.
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2nd jab today. Thought I'd laminate my jab card to create a diy vaccine passport. :lol
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2nd jab today. Thought I'd laminate my jab card to create a diy vaccine passport. :lol
My mum had her 2nd jab today and just showed me her card she laminated too :lol
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Had a possible reaction 36 hours after jab, woke up dripping in sweat........ I hope it was sweat anyway.
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Had a possible reaction 36 hours after jab, woke up dripping in sweat........ I hope it was sweat anyway.
How are you now?
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Had a possible reaction 36 hours after jab, woke up dripping in sweat........ I hope it was sweat anyway.
How are you now?
Thanks for asking.
I was fine when I woke up in morning after the sweat episode in the middle of the night. And been fine since.
Its like my immune system compleatly ignored the jab. Mrs Sharp is convinced she had it back in Feb‐March last year, if that was the case then I must of had it too without knowing. So, interesting that covid did not touch me and neither did the vaccine. Mrs was ill with covid and had a bad time with the vax. Could be linked.
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Thanks for asking.[/size]I was fine when I woke up in morning after the sweat episode in the middle of the night. And been fine since.Its like my immune system compleatly ignored the jab. Mrs Sharp is convinced she had it back in Feb‐March last year, if that was the case then I must of had it too without knowing. So, interesting that covid did not touch me and neither did the vaccine. Mrs was ill with covid and had a bad time with the vax. Could be linked.
Good news :thumbup
A poll of friends puts the bad reaction rate at somewhere between a third and a half felt feverish. But nobody for more than 36 hours, then back to fine. The rest of us, absolutely no reaction at all. As you say, there must be a reason for the differences.
Did you see the BBC's 'Pandemic 2020' Thursday night? Very interesting. Makes it clear the infection rate was astronomical at the beginning. Perhaps lots more people were asymptomatic than we realised.
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It would be interesting to know which jab ( Oxford/Pfizer ), was the "culprit" among those folks that have had a noticeable reaction. So far I've not come across anyone who's had any sort of reaction to the Pfizer, other than a sore arm.
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Wouldn't watch the proven liyers and propagandist panodrama if you paid me.
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It would be interesting to know which jab ( Oxford/Pfizer ), was the "culprit" among those folks that have had a noticeable reaction. So far I've not come across anyone who's had any sort of reaction to the Pfizer, other than a sore arm.
my mate who had a real bad time and was off work for a week was the only one out of 10 workmates to get the az jab all on the same day. 6 out of 10 had problems and were off work for at least 2 days each. So from that small group 50% had issues with the Pfizer jab. They were all between 40 and 55 and because of the nature of their jobs its highly likely they had covid in the past. Some defiantly did, including my mate although they are not sure.
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Wouldn't watch the proven liyers and propagandist panodrama if you paid me.
You'd be surprised. Made by the same team that produced 'Once Upon A Time in Iraq', which showed all the 'dirty washing'
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It would be interesting to know which jab ( Oxford/Pfizer ), was the "culprit" among those folks that have had a noticeable reaction. So far I've not come across anyone who's had any sort of reaction to the Pfizer, other than a sore arm.
All my group (about 20) had the AZ. Both with and without after effects. All are aged 50+.
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I had the pfizer jab, 2 days with mild headache and feeling tired then fine, not enough to stop me working.I have to say while waiting for the jab and reading the bumph I started to feel half the side effects before going in....
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I don't know weather its because more AZ vaxes are being given but it seems like more people have issues with AZ than Pfizer.
From what I could find out its because AZ is closer to a normal vax ‐ as in a deactivated virus but pifzer is totally artificially manufactured on a dna level.
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Had a possible reaction 36 hours after jab, woke up dripping in sweat........ I hope it was sweat anyway.
How are you now?
Thanks for asking.
I was fine when I woke up in morning after the sweat episode in the middle of the night. And been fine since.
Its like my immune system compleatly ignored the jab. Mrs Sharp is convinced she had it back in Feb‐March last year, if that was the case then I must of had it too without knowing. So, interesting that covid did not touch me and neither did the vaccine. Mrs was ill with covid and had a bad time with the vax. Could be linked.
The sweat episode was after dreaming you'd left your bike out in the rain :lol
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If anyone is even remotely concerned about the apparent chance of blood clotting with the AZ vaccine, why not cover the bases and take a course of Omega 3 capsules for a month or so to put the mind, and body, at rest?
A very small dose of Aspirin is an alternative for the vegans out there BUT be warned that Aspirin can have side effects as i found out myself, so you'd need a doctor to give you the go ahead on that one.
I'm not suggesting either are necessary, it's just that some people worry more than others, especially with the media making a meal of things, so why not do something about it to counteract any miniscule possibility of a blood clot?
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If anyone is even remotely concerned about the apparent chance of blood clotting with the AZ vaccine, why not cover the bases and take a course of Omega 3 capsules for a month or so to put the mind, and body, at rest?
A very small dose of Aspirin is an alternative for the vegans out there BUT be warned that Aspirin can have side effects as i found out myself, so you'd need a doctor to give you the go ahead on that one.
I'm not suggesting either are necessary, it's just that some people worry more than others, especially with the media making a meal of things, so why not do something about it to counteract any miniscule possibility of a blood clot?
From what I read it's a smaller chance of blit clot than women get from taking the contraception pill 🤷♂️ probably more risk in taking the omega 3 haha
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If anyone is even remotely concerned about the apparent chance of blood clotting with the AZ vaccine, why not cover the bases and take a course of Omega 3 capsules for a month or so to put the mind, and body, at rest?
A very small dose of Aspirin is an alternative for the vegans out there BUT be warned that Aspirin can have side effects as i found out myself, so you'd need a doctor to give you the go ahead on that one.
I'm not suggesting either are necessary, it's just that some people worry more than others, especially with the media making a meal of things, so why not do something about it to counteract any miniscule possibility of a blood clot?
From what I read it's a smaller chance of blit clot than women get from taking the contraception pill
Wait a minute, Germany has found that the blood clotting mainly affects younger women. Could it be these same woman are also taking a contraception pill and doubling the clot risk. Germany have started on the younger generations which is also why they have higher clot cases than we do.
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If anyone is even remotely concerned about the apparent chance of blood clotting with the AZ vaccine, why not cover the bases and take a course of Omega 3 capsules for a month or so to put the mind, and body, at rest?
A very small dose of Aspirin is an alternative for the vegans out there BUT be warned that Aspirin can have side effects as i found out myself, so you'd need a doctor to give you the go ahead on that one.
I'm not suggesting either are necessary, it's just that some people worry more than others, especially with the media making a meal of things, so why not do something about it to counteract any miniscule possibility of a blood clot?
From what I read it's a smaller chance of blit clot than women get from taking the contraception pill 🤷♂️ probably more risk in taking the omega 3 haha
Doesn't put people off flying either.
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If anyone is even remotely concerned about the apparent chance of blood clotting with the AZ vaccine, why not cover the bases and take a course of Omega 3 capsules for a month or so to put the mind, and body, at rest?
A very small dose of Aspirin is an alternative for the vegans out there BUT be warned that Aspirin can have side effects as i found out myself, so you'd need a doctor to give you the go ahead on that one.
I'm not suggesting either are necessary, it's just that some people worry more than others, especially with the media making a meal of things, so why not do something about it to counteract any miniscule possibility of a blood clot?
From what I read it's a smaller chance of blit clot than women get from taking the contraception pill 🤷♂️ probably more risk in taking the omega 3 haha
Doesn't put people off flying either.
Probably because most people don't realise there is a risk from flying. If a bunch of numpty idiots started an online campaign warning against it and spreading overhyped reports with skewed views then I'm sure there would be a lot more people that wouldnt fly and would be blaming Bill Gates or the government for making air travel unsafe deliberately. Saying its all one big conspiracy to control the population blah blah blah
That's the problem with the modern technological age, the village idiots have learnt to use the Internet 🙈
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Probably because most people don't realise there is a risk from flying. If a bunch of numpty idiots started an online campaign warning against it and spreading overhyped reports with skewed views then I'm sure there would be a lot more people that wouldnt fly
Every time there's a dramatic plane or rail crash you get people saying "I'm not going to fly/ go by train, I'd prefer to drive".
What they don't realise is that the risks of dying in a car crash (the number of deaths per passenger mile ) are much greater than that of a train or plane, eg in 2019 there were 1,752 reported road deaths in the UK and 153,158 KSI casualties in reported road traffic accidents, but most of those are never headline news unless they're really spectacular.
This gives people a biased view of the facts, just as saying "There's been X many cases of blood clots from this vaccine" don't make clear that the odds are around one in a million, as opposed to the one in a thousand or shorter odds of having a serious/ fatal case of COVID.
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:agree
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Probably because most people don't realise there is a risk from flying. If a bunch of numpty idiots started an online campaign warning against it and spreading overhyped reports with skewed views then I'm sure there would be a lot more people that wouldnt fly
Every time there's a dramatic plane or rail crash you get people saying "I'm not going to fly/ go by train, I'd prefer to drive".
What they don't realise is that the risks of dying in a car crash (the number of deaths per passenger mile ) are much greater than that of a train or plane, eg in 2019 there were 1,752 reported road deaths in the UK and 153,158 KSI casualties in reported road traffic accidents, but most of those are never headline news unless they're really spectacular.
This gives people a biased view of the facts, just as saying "There's been X many cases of blood clots from this vaccine" don't make clear that the odds are around one in a million, as opposed to the one in a thousand or shorter odds of having a serious/ fatal case of COVID.
Add to that the chance of coincidence as well.
These same people may have been heading towards a blood clot for whatever reason anyway, and it's just coincidental that they happened to have a jab around the same time, so it's a perfect scapegoat to use.
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Heard immunity to be reached on Monday.-- Sky News --- Real-time modelling carried out by University College London indicates the UK should pass the critical threshold where the proportion of people who have protection against the virus either through vaccination, previous infection or natural immunity will hit 73.4% on Monday, 12 April.
Meanwhile government ministers desperately trying to down play it.
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Got minor surgery on Tuesday, for long standing re-occurring Trigger Finger problem. Monday was booked at Donington for first trackday of the year, so when the surgery letter dropped into the letter box, I thought the planets were aligning nicely. Trackday then surgery. But no. Turns out ive to have a Covid swab on Saturday, then self isolate until Tuesdau morning. Ive cancelled the trackday and will re-book later once healed. Annoying thing is, I suspect some would have just ignored the isolation period and gone ahead with the trackday, but I'm doing it by the book
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Got minor surgery on Tuesday, for long standing re-occurring Trigger Finger problem. Monday was booked at Donington for first trackday of the year, so when the surgery letter dropped into the letter box, I thought the planets were aligning nicely. Trackday then surgery. But no. Turns out ive to have a Covid swab on Saturday, then self isolate until Tuesdau morning. Ive cancelled the trackday and will re-book later once healed. Annoying thing is, I suspect some would have just ignored the isolation period and gone ahead with the trackday, but I'm doing it by the book
back before covid i had a nose job ‐‐to improve airway (honesty). And I had to shower in a special shower gel that kills MRSA also during the pre assessment I had to provide a swab of my perinanal area - I had to focing ask :lol . All for checking for mrsa. It seems now they do not care about mrsa.
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Got minor surgery on Tuesday, for long standing re-occurring Trigger Finger problem. Monday was booked at Donington for first trackday of the year, so when the surgery letter dropped into the letter box, I thought the planets were aligning nicely. Trackday then surgery. But no. Turns out ive to have a Covid swab on Saturday, then self isolate until Tuesdau morning. Ive cancelled the trackday and will re-book later once healed. Annoying thing is, I suspect some would have just ignored the isolation period and gone ahead with the trackday, but I'm doing it by the book
back before covid i had a nose job ‐‐to improve airway (honesty). And I had to shower in a special shower gel that kills MRSA also during the pre assessment I had to provide a swab of my perinanal area - I had to focing ask :lol . All for checking for mrsa. It seems now they do not care about mrsa.
And so it begins. Turned up for the swab test this morning, turns out that the surgery now looks like being cancelled because the second Covid vac is due on the 1st May, so not seven days between the two, as stipulated and required by the Health Authority. So, trackday cancelled, surgery likely to be cancelled and back on the waiting list, no doubt to be re-scheduled when I'm going on holiday or to clash with the other trackdays booked this summer. Only chance to smooth this out is if I can get the 2nd Covid jab put back a couple of days on Monday morning :groan
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Got minor surgery on Tuesday, for long standing re-occurring Trigger Finger problem. Monday was booked at Donington for first trackday of the year, so when the surgery letter dropped into the letter box, I thought the planets were aligning nicely. Trackday then surgery. But no. Turns out ive to have a Covid swab on Saturday, then self isolate until Tuesdau morning. Ive cancelled the trackday and will re-book later once healed. Annoying thing is, I suspect some would have just ignored the isolation period and gone ahead with the trackday, but I'm doing it by the book
back before covid i had a nose job ‐‐to improve airway (honesty). And I had to shower in a special shower gel that kills MRSA also during the pre assessment I had to provide a swab of my perinanal area - I had to focing ask :lol . All for checking for mrsa. It seems now they do not care about mrsa.
And so it begins. Turned up for the swab test this morning, turns out that the surgery now looks like being cancelled because the second Covid vac is due on the 1st May, so not seven days between the two, as stipulated and required by the Health Authority. So, trackday cancelled, surgery likely to be cancelled and back on the waiting list, no doubt to be re-scheduled when I'm going on holiday or to clash with the other trackdays booked this summer. Only chance to smooth this out is if I can get the 2nd Covid jab put back a couple of days on Monday morning :groan
Dont you just know it. Surgery cancelled, weather looks great for Donington too, not allowed to re-arrange the 2nd Covid jab :thumbdown
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50 million UK Covid injections milestone due to be hit today.
Amazing achievement :) .
Absolutely.
Had my second on Saturday, arm a little sore but that's expected.
Im just a little concerned about the brakes coming too early at the minute, we need to tighten the borders
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50 million UK Covid injections milestone due to be hit today.
Amazing achievement :) .
Absolutely.
Had my second on Saturday, arm a little sore but that's expected.
Im just a little concerned about the brakes coming too early at the minute, we need to tighten the borders
i guess you meant concerned brakes coming off too early.
I think things are being relaxed too slow. We were told get the vaccine to get life back to normal, we have kept our side of the deal and don't see much change yet. Summers coming people will be outside more, by the time things get relaxed we will be in another winter lockdoown.
I do think that we should keep the borders closed and seems stupid to think about allowing foreign holidays.
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50 million UK Covid injections milestone due to be hit today.
Amazing achievement :) .
Absolutely.
Had my second on Saturday, arm a little sore but that's expected.
Im just a little concerned about the brakes coming too early at the minute, we need to tighten the borders
i guess you meant concerned brakes coming off too early.
I think things are being relaxed too slow. We were told get the vaccine to get life back to normal, we have kept our side of the deal and don't see much change yet. Summers coming people will be outside more, by the time things get relaxed we will be in another winter lockdoown.
I do think that we should keep the borders closed and seems stupid to think about allowing foreign holidays.
Yes, that's what I meant. Need to remember only half the population has had the vax, and only half of those have had both. There is a long way to go yet. The builder working next door told me he's not having the vax cos he thinks he had the Covid last year and is now safe due to having antibodies. He doesn't know that that though. Yep, keep the borders as closed as possible and foreign hols off the agenda.
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A contributor to one of the news programmes the other day was saying how when deciding whether to lock/unlock and the pace of doing so, the government should take into account all those who for whatever reason haven't taken up the offer of a vaccination.
I've got every sympathy and understanding with those that are unable to have it for a genuine medical reason, but are they seriously suggesting that the normal majority accept locking down with all the subsequent disruption to their lives to protect a minority bunch of idiots who believe in bonkers conspiracy theorys??. Unbelievable :rolleyes
Probably BBC and most likely that contributor is a campaigner for stricter lockdowns of some sort.We are told that data is showing even with just 1 jab a reduction in being able to catch the virus then a reduction of symptoms if you do, there does not seem to me to be any reason to not now lift restrictions quicker. Apart from the government hell bent on not wanting to give ammunition to Labour who like to blame the government for every single covid fatality.
Look what has been happening in the care-homes with residents almost being treated like prisoners and not allowed out - or if they do step outside they have to isolate for 14 days. The government have had to be threatened with legal action before they have just changed the rules. 95% of them have had 1 jab and 75% have had 2 jabs - what is the point of the jabs if it changes nothing.
I am not saying lift all restrictions now but to speed up the steps to the 21st June, to take some of what can happen after then and apply half of it now. Like they have just done with funerals. weddings also have a situation where on the 20th June they can only have 30 people but the day after they can have literally 1,000s. There should be steps in-between. Same with indoor catering and pubs to allow people to pay and order at the bar.There is room for every area of lock down to have extra steps towards full unlock.
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perhaps they could introduce a passport system for hospital beds...no jab,no bed ;)
i had the first jab a few weeks back, second one in 5 weeks time :thumbup
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They won't speed up loosening restrictions ahead of the published road map because of the amount of stick they got for the timing of the last lock/unlock.
They got justified 'stick' because the last unlock was followed by a second wave which was worse than the first.
Slowly, slowly. Follow the science
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50 million UK Covid injections milestone due to be hit today.
Amazing achievement :) .
Absolutely.
Had my second on Saturday, arm a little sore but that's expected.
Im just a little concerned about the brakes coming too early at the minute, we need to tighten the borders
i guess you meant concerned brakes coming off too early.
I think things are being relaxed too slow. We were told get the vaccine to get life back to normal, we have kept our side of the deal and don't see much change yet. Summers coming people will be outside more, by the time things get relaxed we will be in another winter lockdoown.
I do think that we should keep the borders closed and seems stupid to think about allowing foreign holidays.
and I'm pleased to report no side effects other than a slightly sore arm. Covid swab test this Saturday am, then surgery on Tuesday if clear
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Slowly, slowly. Follow the science
yes science--- pick one. How about this one.
https://metro.co.uk/2021/04/25/scientists-call-for-end-of-social-distancing-and-face-masks-by-june-14468154/ (https://metro.co.uk/2021/04/25/scientists-call-for-end-of-social-distancing-and-face-masks-by-june-14468154/)
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On the subject of the conspiracy theorists who believe it's all a hoax and refuse the vaccine, I assume they will also reject a hospital bed if they fall seriously ill with all the symptoms?.
In the USA they've had people who have caught it and are lying in hospital beds on oxygen etc *still* claiming that it's all a hoax and they've just got Flu or something...
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They won't speed up loosening restrictions ahead of the published road map because of the amount of stick they got for the timing of the last lock/unlock.
They got justified 'stick' because the last unlock was followed by a second wave which was worse than the first.
Haven't loads of countries had a second wave that's been worse than the first?. Germany, France and Italy for example. And look at the awful state India is in now.
They must have all got something wrong as well?.
The CCP dictactors must be laughing watching every country point a finger at their own governments
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Haven't loads of countries had a second wave that's been worse than the first?. Germany, France and Italy for example. And look at the awful state India is in now.They must have all got something wrong as well?.
Most of Europe's second wave has been attributed to the what is being referred to as the 'Kent variant'. But yes they also opened up at the wrong time.
India hardly lockdown at all. Modi encouraged crowds, and like Trump, dismissed the virus as a 'little flu'
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Haven't loads of countries had a second wave that's been worse than the first?. Germany, France and Italy for example. And look at the awful state India is in now.They must have all got something wrong as well?.
Most of Europe's second wave has been attributed to the what is being referred to as the 'Kent variant'. But yes they also opened up at the wrong time.
India hardly lockdown at all. Modi encouraged crowds, and like Trump, dismissed the virus as a 'little flu'
Trump actually said.
"It's a little like a regular flu that we have flu shots for. And we'll essentially have a flu shot for this in a fairly quick manner."
And that was way back in Feb and he was proved essentially correct.
As for the EU, yes they have been blaming their problems on the UK because,as we know nothing is ever their fault.
Explain how they have more cases of the Kent variant than we do.
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Trump actually said. "It's a little like a regular flu that we have flu shots for. And we'll essentially have a flu shot for this in a fairly quick manner."
And that was way back in March and he was proved essentially correct.
Yes, of course. That's why the USA has had around *ten times* as many Covid deaths as flu deaths...
Explain how they have more cases of the Kent variant than we do.
A variant is called the [location] variant simply because that was the first place it was detected.
But some people like to try to blame people from that location, such as the idiots who attacked Chinese shops and people in the UK because Covid originated in China.
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Trump actually said. "It's a little like a regular flu that we have flu shots for. And we'll essentially have a flu shot for this in a fairly quick manner."
And that was way back in March and he was proved essentially correct.
Yes, of course. That's why the USA has had around *ten times* as many Covid deaths as flu deaths...
A reminder for you. He said that in Feb 2020 (in my post I got it wrong as I said March ) but he actually said it on February 26 at which time the US had 60 cases.
Also on the same day 26th Feb TheWHO noted that "...14 countries that have had cases have not reported a case for more than a week, and even more importantly, 9 countries have not reported a case for more than two weeks: Belgium, Cambodia, Finland, India, Nepal, Philippines, the Russian Federation, Sri Lanka and Sweden.
So your attaching todays figures to what Trump said in Feb 2020 is basically fake news ;)
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Most of Europe's second wave has been attributed to the what is being referred to as the 'Kent variant'.
Why is that relevant?.
As Grahamm says, it's simply called that because it was the first place that particular variant was detected.
Yes the EU were very quick to condemn Trump when he was calling it the Wuhan virus.But they are now quite happy to call it the Kent variant.
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Also the EU has recommended to let travellers enter to boost the tourism industry. So on one hand they are blaming the UK for their covid mess-up and at the same time wanting our tourist money. After years of calling British tourist all manner things they are now desperate for our money perhaps in the future they will not be so quick to bite the hand that feeds.
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Why is that relevant?.
As Grahamm says, it's simply called that because it was the first place that particular variant was detected.
Which is why our second wave preceded Europe's.
'We' thought it was all over during the summer. 'We' were too busy 'Eating Out To Spread It About'. The Science said beware of mutations, and we were too busy resurrecting the economy. So lots more people died.
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Why is that relevant?.
As Grahamm says, it's simply called that because it was the first place that particular variant was detected.
we were too busy resurrecting the economy.
I hear that a lot from people who are not impacted by a failing economy.
'We' were too busy 'Eating Out To Spread It About'. The Science said beware of mutations,
Show me where the Government scientist warned the Government not to roll out eat out to help out.
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A reminder for you. He said that in Feb 2020 (in my post I got it wrong as I said March ) but he actually said it on February 26 at which time the US had 60 cases.
Also on the same day 26th Feb TheWHO noted that "...14 countries that have had cases have not reported a case for more than a week, and even more importantly, 9 countries have not reported a case for more than two weeks: Belgium, Cambodia, Finland, India, Nepal, Philippines, the Russian Federation, Sri Lanka and Sweden.
So your attaching todays figures to what Trump said in Feb 2020 is basically fake news ;)
What on earth are you talking about??
You're saying "he was proved essentially correct" about what he said in February 2020, but "a little flu" doesn't cause almost 600,000 deaths!
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Yes the EU were very quick to condemn Trump when he was calling it the Wuhan virus.But they are now quite happy to call it the Kent variant.
Trump was using the expression "Chinese virus" to stoke up nationalism and xenophobia amongst his supporters.
And calling the *virus* Chinese is not the same as saying that a *variant* has been detected in a certain location.
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"...14 countries that have had cases have not reported a case for more than a week, and even more importantly, 9 countries have not reported a case for more than two weeks: Belgium, Cambodia, Finland, India, Nepal, Philippines, the Russian Federation, Sri Lanka and Sweden.
They were not testing anyone at the time so would not have got any positive results
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Show me where the Government scientist warned the Government not to roll out eat out to help out.
You mean the way that the Government *did not* consult scientists before rolling it out...?
Another damning report has been released into the Government’s handling of the Coronavirus pandemic, this time revealing how ministers failed to properly utilise scientific advice.
Of particular note, the Institute for Government (IfG) report states that Chancellor Rishi Sunak did not consult scientific experts before launching his ‘Eat Out to Help Out’ scheme this Summer. The discount scheme, which provided cheaper meals to people visiting restaurants, was called “epidemiologically illiterate” by experts interviewed by the IfG.
https://bylinetimes.com/2020/12/21/eat-out-to-help-out-scheme-epidemiologically-illiterate-rishi-sunak-failed-to-consult-scientists/
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A reminder for you. He said that in Feb 2020 (in my post I got it wrong as I said March ) but he actually said it on February 26 at which time the US had 60 cases.
Also on the same day 26th Feb TheWHO noted that "...14 countries that have had cases have not reported a case for more than a week, and even more importantly, 9 countries have not reported a case for more than two weeks: Belgium, Cambodia, Finland, India, Nepal, Philippines, the Russian Federation, Sri Lanka and Sweden.
So your attaching todays figures to what Trump said in Feb 2020 is basically fake news ;)
What on earth are you talking about??
You're saying "he was proved essentially correct" about what he said in February 2020, but "a little flu" doesn't cause almost 600,000 deaths!
Yes essentially correct by referring to it being a little like regular flu IN THAT just like regular flu we have shots for it every year and that one will be developed very soon.
Here is the quote again for you. "It's a little like a regular flu that we have flu shots for. And we'll essentially have a flu shot for this in a fairly quick manner.
In that quote he wasn't saying it was like flu - as in the symptoms and outcome he was referring to how it will be delt with. I still cannot find where trump called covid "a little flu"
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So, in 2020, Trump knew more than the assembled medical knowlege of the planet...?
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So, in 2020, Trump knew more than the assembled medical knowlege of the planet...?
Not just in 2020, that guy is a complete genius pillock :pokefun
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BBC news item - people returning to the UK from India and Pakistan (on the red list ) are avoiding having to quarantine here by first flying to Turkey. Get ready for a spike in covid rates in the usual towns and cities.
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:agree
I just read that article and wondered 2 things
1. are these people sensible
or
2. are they stupid
If they stay in Turkey for 10-11 days then legally what they are doing is fine. An extra holiday for much less than the Boris Hotel scheme but......
Once they do arrive back in the UK are they doing the quarantine at home like they are meant to? I doubt it - Boris & Co need to do physical checks on 100% of people coming back to make sure they are where they state they will be staying rather than the phone call they do for most of the 10% they currently check.
If they just do a couple off days and then lie about where they have been, I hope the feccers get a good hiding with the rubber hoses in the detention cells when immigration see the stamps in their passports proving they were lying.
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:agree
I just read that article and wondered 2 things
1. are these people sensible
or
2. are they stupid
If they stay in Turkey for 10-11 days then legally what they are doing is fine. An extra holiday for much less than the Boris Hotel scheme but......
Once they do arrive back in the UK are they doing the quarantine at home like they are meant to? I doubt it - Boris & Co need to do physical checks on 100% of people coming back to make sure they are where they state they will be staying rather than the phone call they do for most of the 10% they currently check.
If they just do a couple off days and then lie about where they have been, I hope the feccers get a good hiding with the rubber hoses in the detention cells when immigration see the stamps in their passports proving they were lying.
Turkey needs to be added to the Red list as does any other sh1t hole of a country that is being used like this.
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I hear that a lot from people who are not impacted by a failing economy.
32,646 deaths from Covid-19 in January 21. The highest by far, and following the summer easing of lockdown restrictions
Try telling the relatives that the economy was more important.....
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Ah OK. I thought for a minute there that you might have been suggesting that The EU's second wave was all our fault
No more so, than the first wave was China's fault :)
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Turkey needs to be added to the Red list as does any other sh1t hole of a country that is being used like this.
Yet we didn't close all travel out of the UK until mid January, when we were deep into the second wave with 1,000 deaths each day, and before any immunisation.
Were we a 'sh1thole country'?
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Do you think the current road map the government has for lifting restrictions is too quick, too slow or about right?
The four governments are lifting restrictions at roughly the same pace, and seem to be getting it about right. But they must be prepared to reverse if the science tells them otherwise. I'd rather see a new set of restrictions rather than ''bodies piled high in the streets''
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Do you think the current road map the government has for lifting restrictions is too quick, too slow or about right?
The four governments are lifting restrictions at roughly the same pace, and seem to be getting it about right.
Its good that you support Borris Johnson. I do not, given the success of the vax rollout there are many areas where they could take intermediate steps to relax restrictions, like they have just done for funerals and care homes.
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At least with "bodies piled high in the streets" the potholes would be filled.....
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Turkey needs to be added to the Red list as does any other sh1t hole of a country that is being used like this.
Yet we didn't close all travel out of the UK until mid January, when we were deep into the second wave with 1,000 deaths each day, and before any immunisation.
Were we a 'sh1thole country'?
Sh1t hole Turkey just been added to the Red list. Seems like the Government is listening to me :thumbup
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I still think we need to be extremely cautious and not release the brakes so quickly. School local to me has had to shut down due to covid outbreak, and associated local schools are asking all siblings to report for testing asap. Id guess its likely they will close too. Foreign travel should remain off the agenda, in and out
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I still think we need to be extremely cautious and not release the brakes so quickly. School local to me has had to shut down due to covid outbreak, and associated local schools are asking all siblings to report for testing asap. Id guess its likely they will close too. Foreign travel should remain off the agenda, in and out
Agreed. On all points. But feel there is room for - as I said, some more intermediate steps. Another one is that from the 17th a total of 6 people from different households can meet indoors but then as it stands it will be unlimited from the 21st June so from the first step which was allowing 6 people to meet in a garden back in 12th April to unlimited in June 21st there has been room for a few extra steps along the way building up the unlimited in June.
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What's doing my head in are the stupid nonsensical rules such as the fact you can go and stay in on a holiday park in a caravan but can't stay in a hotel room because apparently (in England anyway) a hotel room isn't self-catering accommodation?? Yet in Wales and Scotland it is!?
So obtuse are the rules that when i go away next week with my wife for her birthday we had originally planned a night in Liverpool as she likes the shopping there but due to the way the rules are we are no spending the day in Liverpool then driving across the border to a hotel in Wrexham (45mins away) then driving back into Liverpool the next day and I'm not breaking any rules!?
When I brought up the issue with the hotel in Liverpool they stated that they can't be classed as self catering due to the hallways and entrance foyer!! So it's fine for me to go to the gym and be surrounded by 10s of sweaty, heavy breathing strangers for 60mins at a time with no masks but it's too dangerous to briefly walk past someone in a hotel corridor while wearing masks 🙄🙄
So following the so called "science" must mean that Wales and Scotland have scientists with common sense where as here in the England we are stuck with the idiots 🙈
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ts good that you support Borris Johnson. I do not, given the success of the vax rollout there are many areas where they could take intermediate steps to relax restrictions, like they have just done for funerals and care homes.
I don't. As I said there are 4 separate governments in the UK making these decisions. Johnson is not the centre of the universe.
I support the science advising them. It's a pity Johnson didn't heed their advice earlier in the pandemic. Then we might not have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
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Sh1t hole Turkey just been added to the Red list. Seems like the Government is listening to me
Again you fail to check any facts.
Turkey has been operating similar Indian immigration checks to the UK. Negative covid tests and 10 day mandatory quarantine in a designated hotel.
The reason people from India were stopping over was that Turkey charges £600 per person, instead of the UK's £1750.
By your reckoning, looks like Australia and New Zealand still think we are a sh1thole country.
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Again you fail to check any facts.
I just used different facts to you ;)
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Yeah, those which on the face of it make the UK look worse [/size]
Well I have used the 'per hundred thousand' argument in the past ;)
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ts good that you support Borris Johnson. I do not, given the success of the vax rollout there are many areas where they could take intermediate steps to relax restrictions, like they have just done for funerals and care homes.
I don't. As I said there are 4 separate governments in the UK making these decisions. Johnson is not the centre of the universe.
I support the science advising them. It's a pity Johnson didn't heed their advice earlier in the pandemic. Then we might not have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
Its just really weird how the left have some sort of death porn when it come to covid. You say Johnson is not the centre of the universe but it does'nt seem that way every time a labour supporter opens their mouth. No matter how hard they try the electorate just doesn't buy Labours rhetoric that its all Borris fault. --- As has just been perfectly demonstrated on Thursday.
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I've no doubt you did earlier on in the pandemic when the UK actually was the worst, or thereabouts, by that measurement
It's called 'doing a Johnson'
As Michael Hesiltine recently said 'Boris waits to see which direction the crowd takes, then rushes to the front' :)
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That's because the electorate "keep getting it wrong"
Apart from in Scotland, Wales, Manchester, Liverpool, London, Cambridge etc ;)
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All the talk yesterday and today was about Boris to announce that you can hug, BBC ran a 5 minute piece with graphics and science advisers on how to hug safely, it was bizarre.Again like I have been saying where are all the steps in between that we could of already been doing - like removing the 2M - 1M+ guide or allowing more than 6 outside - but no hugging.
Its gone straight from staying 2m away to hugging overnight.
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It's the new guidelines
'Hug, Snog, Avoid'
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In the USA, some anti-vaxxers have convinced themselves that people who have been vaccinated are "shedding" infectious particles *from* the vaccine and are saying that they are going to stay away from them and wear masks to protect themselves...!
You *really* cannot make this shit up! :rollin :rollin :rollin
https://god.dailydot.com/anti-vaxxers-social-distancing/
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Why is the indian variant rampant in Bolton, Rotherham, Bradford, leicester, derby, and how did it get there in the first place.
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Why is the indian variant rampant in Bolton, Rotherham, Bradford, leicester, derby, and how did it get there in the first place.
Im sure you already suspect the causes, but Ill take a stab and risk being censured.
Areas of high immigrant population, coupled with letting people who have recently visited India back into this country without quarantine etc. Pisses me off that the sacrifices of many are being tossed aside by selfish bastards and slow political action.
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Why is the indian variant rampant in Bolton, Rotherham, Bradford, leicester, derby, and how did it get there in the first place.
Im sure you already suspect the causes, but Ill take a stab and risk being censured.
Areas of high immigrant population, coupled with letting people who have recently visited India back into this country without quarantine etc. Pisses me off that the sacrifices of many are being tossed aside by selfish bastards and slow political action.
I don't know where you got that info from but I thought I would check the BBC news website and it doesn't say anything about any immigrant populations.
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Crawley rates are increasing again too. We have a large asian population.
The truth is too many people fec about and either:
- Ignore the quarantine when coming back from places like India
- Don't understand that quarantine means self isolation, not just staying in your home but isolating from the rest of the household or making the res of the household quarantine too.
I have seen loads of stories on the web and elsewhere where people are too underpaid to be able to take time off work to isolate when they have symptoms or blatantly ignore the rule or think "i'm ok to go to the shops/gym/wherever while I isolate"
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Why is the indian variant rampant in Bolton, Rotherham, Bradford, leicester, derby, and how did it get there in the first place.
How did the Kent variant spread so rapidly throughout Europe?
The whole history of this virus is the speed of transmission.
It only takes one person.
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Why is the indian variant rampant in Bolton, Rotherham, Bradford, leicester, derby, and how did it get there in the first place.
How did the Kent variant spread so rapidly throughout Europe?
The whole history of this virus is the speed of transmission.
It only takes one person.
why hasn't the Kent variant spread here like it has in the EU. After all it started here.
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I can't find anything on sky or bbc that says the spread of the indian variant is driven by the Asian population. Seems like it is being covered up.
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why hasn't the Kent variant spread here like it has in the EU. After all it started here.
It did. It was the major contributor to our very high figures in January. Then came Europe.
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I can't find anything on sky or bbc that says the spread of the indian variant is driven by the Asian population. Seems like it is being covered up.
What do you mean 'driven by'? Somebody travelled back from India, and have now passed it on to people they have met or live with. The likely hood is they are of Asian descent. Nobody is 'driving it'.
Neither was everybody from China, or indeed Kent.
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I can't find anything on sky or bbc that says the spread of the indian variant is driven by the Asian population. Seems like it is being covered up.
What do you mean 'driven by'? Somebody travelled back from India, and have now passed it on to people they have met or live with. The likely hood is they are of Asian descent. Nobody is 'driving it'.
Neither was everybody from China, or indeed Kent.
Without a doubt. People visiting relatives etc in a country with thousands dying daily, the govt says if you don't come back within a week, you'll have to quarantine. So they all come back without quarantine and lo and behold, the Indian virus takes off here. Another lockdown?
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And that's exactly what happened when we had thousands of people dying here in the UK in January, and exported the virus to Europe
It's no use pointing the finger at people. Point the finger at governments for being too slow to react. For being complacent. For not ensuring people are financially supported to quarantine.
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Without a doubt. People visiting relatives etc in a country with thousands dying daily, the govt says if you don't come back within a week, you'll have to quarantine. So they all come back without quarantine and lo and behold, the Indian virus takes off here. Another lockdown?
Yes lock down Bolton and all the other towns with the outbreak. There is going to be a lot of angry people if the lockdown easing is put on hold because of a few selfish communities who have refused the jab and ignored the rules.
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If a new high problem variant is identified, or a country is going into the RED category, the government should give 2 or 3 hours notice. Anybody not on flight not within the the 2-3 hours window (allows those that have checked in to travel) will have the option then to stay where they are or travel with hotel quarantine. No ifs or buts. This will prevent the sudden rush of people who may be infected from rushing to the airport and flying home. The government is too spineless to do that though.
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From the BBC website
9 April Pakistan was put on the red list
One hotel worker in Istanbul said he had seen British nationals flying in from Pakistan, India and Bangladesh - which are all on the UK's red list.The BBC has also spoken to travellers returning from Pakistan to the UK, many of whom were attending weddings or funerals and say they couldn't afford the cost of quarantining.
As long as they isolate at home for 10 days after returning from a non-red list country, they are not breaking the UK government's Covid rules.
Hashir, a student, said "There's no way I have that money, I'm a university student,"
Bradford MP Naz Shah said she was "deeply concerned" about children potentially missing school because their parents can't afford to fly home.
Mohammad Saad travelled to Pakistan with his 16-year-old son on 23 March to attend his nephew's funeral stayed in Turkey said "It's like an extra holiday. Then you can fly back into the UK from Istanbul without any hotel quarantine."
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I would of thought that If they can afford to go in the first place they should be able to afford to properly quarantine. Student suddenly pleading poverty. Flying to Pakistan to attend your Sisters son is one thing but taking your 16 year old son does not seem to me to be a responsible thing to do. So after staying for an "extended holiday" in Turkey for 10 days there is no way they are going to spend another 10 days isolating at home like they should.
Doing some research there may be something else that could be behind certain communities reluctance to follow rules and to not take the vaccine. It could be that "if god wills it " and it is written that it is a punishment which is sent upon anyone but if you are a believer then nothing will befall them other that what god has already decided.
I also came across the use of black seed and honey which is seen as a cure for all diseases and some orthodox will also not follow man made laws and the only law they adhere to is their gods law.
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I would of thought that If they can afford to go in the first place they should be able to afford to properly quarantine
Yep that's what I told you. £600 per person to quarantine in an approved hotel in Turkey, plus negative tests before and after, as opposed to £1750 to do the same in the UK. So for a family of 4 that's a difference of £4600. Plus, legally you have been tested as negative earlier.
And you wouldn't do that?
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How do they stop that from being fiddled like hell?.
It's probably less than putting the resulting infected people on ventilators for a week
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Report finds serious failings with WHO and global governments response to pandemic...
Yep, and some covid denying countries were worse than others - Brazil, India, Trumpville...
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I would of thought that If they can afford to go in the first place they should be able to afford to properly quarantine
Yep that's what I told you. £600 per person to quarantine in an approved hotel in Turkey, plus negative tests before and after, as opposed to £1750 to do the same in the UK. So for a family of 4 that's a difference of £4600. Plus, legally you have been tested as negative earlier.
And you wouldn't do that?
At the time there was no approved hotels in Turkey for the purpose of quarantine. And tourists had no restrictions once there so it was "just like an extra Holiday" they may well of tested negative before arrival in Turkey but than caught it there during their "extended Holiday" and then not isolated for the 10 days at home like they should.
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Report finds serious failings with WHO and global governments response to pandemic...
Yep, and some covid denying countries were worse than others - Brazil, India, Trumpville...
But Trump ignored the WHO and banned travel from affected countries and the left were jumping up and down calling him racist for it. Now the same left are jumping up and down wanting borris to close the same boarders to the same people. Saying he is not doing it quick enough.
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At the time there was no approved hotels in Turkey for the purpose of quarantine. And tourists had no restrictions once there so it was "just like an extra Holiday" they may well of tested negative before arrival in Turkey but than caught it there during their "extended Holiday" and then not isolated for the 10 days at home like they should.
Not true. Travellers from India required to stay 14 days in approved dormitories
https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/europe/perfectly-legal-uk-citizens-flouting-hotel-quarantine-by-flying-to-turkey-1.1218009 (https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/europe/perfectly-legal-uk-citizens-flouting-hotel-quarantine-by-flying-to-turkey-1.1218009)
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Asides from the numerous claims for people who don't even exist, I was thinking more about the 'scally's' who are going to take the quarantine money and then go out to work anyway, regarding the extra cash as a nice little bonus and still infecting everyone.
OK then. Probably less than the money wasted on buying PPE from middle men who delivered kit not fit for purpose :)
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At the time there was no approved hotels in Turkey for the purpose of quarantine. And tourists had no restrictions once there so it was "just like an extra Holiday" they may well of tested negative before arrival in Turkey but than caught it there during their "extended Holiday" and then not isolated for the 10 days at home like they should.
Not true. Travellers from India required to stay 14 days in approved dormitories
https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/europe/perfectly-legal-uk-citizens-flouting-hotel-quarantine-by-flying-to-turkey-1.1218009 (https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/europe/perfectly-legal-uk-citizens-flouting-hotel-quarantine-by-flying-to-turkey-1.1218009)
Travellers from Pakistan did not need to stay in designated dormitories
Here from your link But the deals are causing anger in Turkey, where a 7pm curfew is in place until May 17. Everyone entering Turkey must present a negative Covid-19 test, but only travellers from India are required to quarantine for 14 days in designated dormitories. Most tourists on short-term stays are exempt from the curfew.
Also from your link Vision Travels and Tours, also based in Pakistan but which lists a UK phone number, tells travellers: “No worries, be happy … travel back to UK from Pakistan and have holidays in Turkey during Covid 2021.”
“No worries, be happy … travel back to UK from Pakistan and have holidays in Turkey during Covid 2021.” :rolleyes >:
Murat Emir, a deputy with Turkey’s main opposition party, questioned how many travellers from Pakistan and India had used the loophole to “wander around freely” before travelling to Britain. He suggested the quarantine requirement on travellers was not being applied consistently in Turkey.
“British citizens coming to Turkey from Pakistan can wander around freely, causing the Indian variant to spread here,” he said.
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I would of thought that If they can afford to go in the first place they should be able to afford to properly quarantine
Yep that's what I told you. £600 per person to quarantine in an approved hotel in Turkey, plus negative tests before and after, as opposed to £1750 to do the same in the UK. So for a family of 4 that's a difference of £4600. Plus, legally you have been tested as negative earlier.
And you wouldn't do that?
No because I wouldn't be traveling abroard in the first place. Why do you keep defending these people who are ‐ in the first place being irresponsible in traveling anyway and then deliberately circumventing measures put in place to try and protect our population.
Especially when you are quick to jump on those people who thought it would be safe and an open space to go to the beach, just so happens that a lot of other people thought the same thing at the same time. Those people were getting out for some fresh air after dutifully staying g at home.
Contrast that to ‐- [size=0px] [/size][/size][size=0px]“No worries, be happy … travel back to UK from Pakistan and have holidays in Turkey during Covid 2021.”[/size]
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Odd how the left were so keen to follow the results table when the UK had the worst fatality figures in Europe, yet when we flew ahead on the vaccine rollout they keep saying how 'it isn't a race' and 'no one is safe until we're all safe'
Yes the NHS have done a fantastic job with the vaccine rollout. All that on a 1% increase in pay.
Just as well the job wasn't given to a private contractor like Serco. Otherwise it would have been another Test and Trace disaster, costing billions
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With the vast majority of the elderly and vulnerable now vaccinated, surely there shouldn't be all that many people who end up hospitalised on a ventilator now.
In line with the fewer who need to self isolate now.
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No because I wouldn't be traveling abroard in the first place. Why do you keep defending these people who are ‐ in the first place being irresponsible in traveling anyway and then deliberately circumventing measures put in place to try and protect our population. Especially when you are quick to jump on those people who thought it would be safe and an open space to go to the beach, just so happens that a lot of other people thought the same thing at the same time. Those people were getting out for some fresh air after dutifully staying g at home.
I'm not defending anybody. I'm pointing out that there are a large number of areas of risk and reasons for spread. Rather than targeting just one group.....
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Travellers from Pakistan did not need to stay in designated dormitories
I thought we were talking about the Indian Variant :rolleyes
Don't think there is a 'Pakistani Variant'. They are two different countries you know.
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Travellers from Pakistan did not need to stay in designated dormitories
I thought we were talking about the Indian Variant :rolleyes
Don't think there is a 'Pakistani Variant'. They are two different countries you know.
Ah that's ok then I don't need to worry about the Indian variant as clearly it doesn't like country borders.
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No because I wouldn't be traveling abroard in the first place. Why do you keep defending these people who are ‐ in the first place being irresponsible in traveling anyway and then deliberately circumventing measures put in place to try and protect our population. Especially when you are quick to jump on those people who thought it would be safe and an open space to go to the beach, just so happens that a lot of other people thought the same thing at the same time. Those people were getting out for some fresh air after dutifully staying g at home.
I'm not defending anybody. I'm pointing out that there are a large number of areas of risk and reasons for spread. Rather than targeting just one group.....
Not targeting anyone. I looked at the BBC and Sky for an explanation why the same towns were always the same ones when it comes to covid and couldn't find anything apart from the story about people bypassing quarantine. Its not my fault they were all from one group.
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Stand by ----- Borris is about to do what I said yesterday and lock down Bolton and others.
At the very least the coming May 17th will be put on hold (not that keeping the pubs shut will bother the "locals" )
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Yet if it had been a monumental foc-up like in the EU, it'd have been Boris's, sorry Johnson's, fault wouldn't it
His name isn't even 'Boris' ;)
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Well he bottled it, missed the chance to contain this, I can see why though as mtread so obligingly demonstrated he dosent want to be accused of.
targeting just one group.....
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Next you'll be telling me Starmer's name isn't 'Sir'
:lol
Not sure. He hasn't got a County Court Judgement we could check against ;)
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Next you'll be telling me Starmer's name isn't 'Sir'
:lol
Not sure. He hasn't got a County Court Judgement we could check against ;)
Ah yes the conspiracy theorist who is a serial claimant who has also launched legal actions against Marks and Spencer, Royal Mail, Chancellor Rishi Sunak and numerous public companies.
Her claim was for defamation.
For £25 anyone can make a claim against anyone and if it is left unanswered it will stand against you.
Needs fixing. She should be prosecuted for wasting court's and the PMs time.
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It'll still have his real name on it though. Otherwise it certainly would be invalid :lol
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It seems that the goal posts are on wheels. This Pakistani variant as Mtread calls it -looks like it has stuffed the Gov and sage into a state of oregano. On one hand we were told take the vax and life can normalise, on the other we have the Pakistani variant ( Mtreads words )
'Pakistani Variant'
But the Gov cannot just lock down the areas involved for fear of being accused of
targeting just one group.....
But if it all runs out of control and we are forced to lock down again -the general covid law abiding public will blame those communities. So the gov have played the only card they have which is to send in the army and tests test test and vaccinate the sh1t out of them.
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Can't they just make vaccination compulsory unless the individual concerned has got a valid medical exemption?.
It will be but by the back door ( oooh stop making your own jokes) so it will not be compulsory as such but without a vax passport you will not be able to to anything that normal society used to do. Go on holiday, get a mortgage, see a gp, go to the pub - restaurant --- ect
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Table booked for 7.30pm. First pub pint in over 6 months @ 7.31pm :b @7.32pm second pint
Amended your post for you :lol
Are they doing sittings so you have to be off by a certain time, couldn't be doing with that.
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Are they doing sittings so you have to be off by a certain time, couldn't be doing with that.
I went a few weeks ago and got a table outside with my dad and my Mrs and son. After 2 hours and running up a £100 bill (there was food too) they were chasing us out the door as "we only had a 90 min booking"
Feccers.
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Just been reported on Radio 5 that the vast majority of those being treated in hospital for Covid in the Bolton area are people that are eligible for a vaccination and had been invited to have one, but have refused it.
Matt Hancock just said the same in the commons. At least it proves that the vaccine works.
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Are they doing sittings so you have to be off by a certain time, couldn't be doing with that.
I went a few weeks ago and got a table outside with my dad and my Mrs and son. After 2 hours and running up a £100 bill (there was food too) they were chasing us out the door as "we only had a 90 min booking"
Feccers.
Spoils the enjoyment. I am going to leave it a week and let things calm down.
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Just been reported on Radio 5 that the vast majority of those being treated in hospital for Covid in the Bolton area are people that are eligible for a vaccination and had been invited to have one, but have refused it.
Matt Hancock just said the same in the commons. At least it proves that the vaccine works.
True.
Also proves that in a time of crisis such as this, when the whole country needs to pull together and act as one big community in order to get out of this mess, not everyone can be relied upon to do the right thing.
Sadly, thats been evident from the start of the crisis, and lack of any real enforcement for fear of offending the civil liberties crackpots just encouraged them
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Went to the gym for my first Body Combat class (high intensity, non-contact martial arts moves done to fast music).
Knackered, but glad to be back doing it because I really need to work on my endurance before I start surfing again...!
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Went to the gym for my first Body Combat class (high intensity, non-contact martial arts moves done to fast music).
Knackered, but glad to be back doing it because I really need to work on my endurance before I start surfing again...!
How the foc do you get a surfboard on your bike.
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Government warns of local lockdowns in areas where Indian variant is taking hold and vaccine uptake is lower...
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-local-lockdowns-and-delay-to-next-step-of-roadmap-cannot-be-ruled-out-minister-warns-12309673 (https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-local-lockdowns-and-delay-to-next-step-of-roadmap-cannot-be-ruled-out-minister-warns-12309673)
:guitar Lock them down - lock them down - lock them down :guitar
May as well because it wont affect those "communities" as there are no pubs there and they carry on working in the sweat shops anyway. Every time its the same areas first to get locked down.
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Been reading reports that magic grandpa has not taken his jab. Wonder if he has been listening to his brother.
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How the foc do you get a surfboard on your bike.
I strap it on my back and paraglide down the motorway :lol
(If I had a quid for every time someone had asked me that question... Actually the campsite I stay at in Croyde stores it for me :thumbup )
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Been reading reports that magic grandpa has not taken his jab. Wonder if he has been listening to his brother.
What reports? Where? From whom? Just because someone "reports" something, doesn't make it true.
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Been reading reports that magic grandpa has not taken his jab. Wonder if he has been listening to his brother.
What reports? Where? From whom? Just because someone "reports" something, doesn't make it true.
Go on then, have a look, have a search and tell me where he has said that he has had it. Just about every politician have made a thing about them getting the jab - Grandpa - nothing, not a single twitter post. :book :pc
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Well one 'politician' who has just had their first dose, is Cummings.
And it appears they've combined it with a truth serum.
Should be interesting :lurk
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What reports? Where? From whom? Just because someone "reports" something, doesn't make it true.
Go on then, have a look, have a search and tell me where he has said that he has had it. Just about every politician have made a thing about them getting the jab - Grandpa - nothing, not a single twitter post. :book :pc
So, because Jeremy Corbyn *hasn't* made a big deal of something (y'know, he doesn't tend to behave like "every other politician"), somehow this becomes "he hasn't had the jab" in some people's minds... :rolleyes
Meanwhile you go for a classic "Burden of Proof (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof)" fallacy, demanding that I demonstrate that your unfounded assertion is wrong.
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What reports? Where? From whom? Just because someone "reports" something, doesn't make it true.
Go on then, have a look, have a search and tell me where he has said that he has had it. Just about every politician have made a thing about them getting the jab - Grandpa - nothing, not a single twitter post. :book :pc
So, because Jeremy Corbyn *hasn't* made a big deal of something (y'know, he doesn't tend to behave like "every other politician"), somehow this becomes "he hasn't had the jab" in some people's minds... :rolleyes
Meanwhile you go for a classic "Burden of Proof (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof)" fallacy, demanding that I demonstrate that your unfounded assertion is wrong.
so you have been searching for 11 hours since my post - can't find anything can you. If he has had it why won't he say so.
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If he has had it why won't he say so.
Why should he? He's just a backbench MP.
How many of the other 649 MPs have we heard from?
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If he has had it why won't he say so.
Why should he? He's just a backbench MP.
How many of the other 649 MPs have we heard from?
Firstly not all the mps are in any of the groups currently getting the vax.
Also he is not just a backbench MP. He is a prominent Labour MP who's party is currently telling everyone else to get the vaccine. He is an opposition MP, if he believes the vaccine is not needed or is harmful then its his duty to say so and not cover it up.
He still has his loyal following and speaks at various conferences and events, doing so unvaccinated seems irresponsible to me.
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.... but of course you still don't have proof he hasn't has it :lol
Perhaps we should all instead complain about the MPs who opposed lockdown rules ;)
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My second jab has been brought forward to next week to the 8 week mark - just like the government has said it will now be doing.
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so you have been searching for 11 hours since my post - can't find anything can you. If he has had it why won't he say so.
I haven't been searching for anything, just like if you'd claimed that you'd been kidnapped by a UFO I wouldn't be searching for evidence to prove you wrong because, as I've already pointed out, it is up to YOU to prove your claim.
Now, you've had more than 11 hours since that post, got any evidence that he hasn't had the jab?
No...?
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I shall be complaining about anyone who opposed having a vaccination that they were eligible for if we all end up locked down again because of this Indian variant
I shall be complaining about anybody who would rather see bodies piled high in the streets, than have another lockdown.
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I shall be complaining about anyone who opposed having a vaccination that they were eligible for if we all end up locked down again because of this Indian variant
I shall be complaining about anybody who would rather see bodies piled high in the streets, than have another lockdown.
who said that then
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The leader of Blackburn with Darwen council, said six of the nine coronavirus patients in the region’s hospital had received at least one jab. Among the over-50s, the town’s vaccination rate is in line with England’s average: 94.8% of that age group have been vaccinated, compared with 95.4% in the country.
[/size]You can't beat a few facts :)
[/size]Perhaps the government shouldn't have waited until 23rd of April before they put India on the Red list :rolleyes
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If there's no concrete evidence that he hasn't had the jab, it doesn't automatically mean we must assume that he has had it.
And neither can we assume that he hasn't, just because some people have tried to draw (politically motivated) conclusions from the *lack* of evidence...!
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Hancock says that "The variant could be up to 50 percent more transmissible than the Kent strain" The reason its 50% more transmissible is because the communities living in Blackburn with darwen break the rules 50% more.
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And the Health Secretary says that the 'vast majority' of those patients in hospital with the Indian strain in Bolton were eligible for the jab, but had refused it...
3 out of 9 is not a majority, and is a fact.
Perhaps Hancock is not very good at maths. Except when it comes to to the value of PPE contracts awarded to his mates
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Hancock says that "The variant could be up to 50 percent more transmissible than the Kent strain" The reason its 50% more transmissible is because the communities living in Blackburn with darwen break the rules 50% more.
'' Could be'' doesn't mean ''is'', and the last bit is your speculation. Perhaps the Indian variant is more readily transmitted because of the type of mutation. Just like the Kent variant was more easily transmitted than before. You remember, that variant that was first identified in Kent, and was then 'exported' to Europe and USA through open borders and person to person mixing :rolleyes
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He's referring to a different hospital isn't he?
He might well be, but he doesn't prove it with statistics. Unlike in Blackburn.
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Hancock says that "The variant could be up to 50 percent more transmissible than the Kent strain" The reason its 50% more transmissible is because the communities living in Blackburn with darwen break the rules 50% more.
and the last bit is your speculation. Perhaps the Indian variant is more readily transmitted because of the type of mutation.
But its not a speculation.
Blackburn with Darwen Mayor Iftakhar Hussain has resigned after breaching Covid restrictions by visiting a house where police said people were "celebrating a wedding".Lancashire Police said nine people were fined after being found at an address on Dukes Brow, Blackburn, at about 21:00 GMT on Saturday.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-56067907 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-56067907)
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Its all getting a bit boring now and we are going round in circles - time to call it a draw if you like and change the subject.
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BBC had an article about a couple who have booked 2 holidays at the same time. One in Devon and one in the canary islands, so if the Spanish one can not go ahead then they will go to the Devon one. They are taking advantage of the Devon one wanting to give holidaymakers peace of mind by offering free cancellations. They have no intention of going to the Devon one. Despicable behaviour IMO. Their faces and names are on the report, if I were the hotel and I saw that BBC report I would be contacting them and telling them to Foc off.
Apparently many people are doing the same thing, all these fully booked hotels - come the time they are going to find themselves fully empty.
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Yep despicable. Follows on from people booking multiple restaurants, then choosing on the night which one to go to.
All taking advantage of the 'no deposit' schemes run by venues desperate for trade.
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Yep despicable. Follows on from people booking multiple restaurants, then choosing on the night which one to go to.
All taking advantage of the 'no deposit' schemes run by venues desperate for trade.
Not heard of the restaurants one. Don't get it - we choose where to go based on what we want to eat and then book it and go there.
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It's hardly surprising that people are going to wonder when he acts so secretive about it.
Incredibly enough, even politicians are allow to say that private medical matters are None of Your Business!
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And the Health Secretary says that the 'vast majority' of those patients in hospital with the Indian strain in Bolton were eligible for the jab, but had refused it...
Did you stop to consider *why* they had refused it?
Watch this documentary on BBC iPlayer: "Extra Life: A Short History of Living Longer (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m000w6s7/extra-life-a-short-history-of-living-longer)" and you may begin to understand why people from different cultures may simply not trust the motivations of people who have, so often, despised them and treated them as unwelcome pariahs because of their religion/ origins/ colour of their skin...
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I've been looking at UK hotel prices. Gone through the roof now everyone is doing a staycation
A "Staycation" is where you STAY at home and use that as a base for your VACATION!
It doesn't (despite what many news readers appear to think) mean that you're going on holiday in the UK instead of going abroad, unless my regular holidays surfing and biking in North Devon have suddenly become "Staycations"!
Holidays in the UK are still "proper" holidays!
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I've been looking at UK hotel prices. Gone through the roof now everyone is doing a staycation
A "Staycation" is where you STAY at home and use that as a base for your VACATION!
It doesn't (despite what many news readers appear to think) mean that you're going on holiday in the UK instead of going abroad, unless my regular holidays surfing and biking in North Devon have suddenly become "Staycations"!
Holidays in the UK are still "proper" holidays!
Actually your both right (you and the papers), here's the official definition of staycation....
"a holiday spent in one's home country rather than abroad, or one spent at home and involving day trips to local attractions"
If anything I've found it great to discover new parts of the country that I would have never thought to see if I'd had the option to travel abroad
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:z (X3)
Agreed. @grahamm we have moved on from the overty political point scoring, time you did also.
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here's the official definition of staycation....
"Official" according to whom? Remember that dictionaries only report *usage*, so if people consistently misuse a word, that misuse will enter the dictionary, whether it's the correct usage of the word or not.
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we have moved on from the overty political point scoring
Thank you for admitting that you were just engaged in political point scoring. I'll make a note of it.
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Watch this documentary on BBC iPlayer: "Extra Life: A Short History of Living Longer (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m000w6s7/extra-life-a-short-history-of-living-longer)" a
I've just watched that. Fascinating. David Olusoga is a superb presenter.
Had my second AZ vaccination today. Hopefully like the first dose, no side effects. Brilliantly organised by NHS staff and an army of volunteers. No politicians involved :)
Interesting to hear Jeremy Hunt lambasting national Test and Trace today, and insisting it would be much better run at a local level.
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Had my second AZ vaccination today. Hopefully like the first dose, no side effects. Brilliantly organised by NHS staff and an army of volunteers. No politicians involved :)
my mate who was ill for the best part of 2 weeks for the first was virtually unaffected by the second. From what I can tell from listening to others, the second has far less after effects
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I've been looking at UK hotel prices. Gone through the roof now everyone is doing a staycation
A "Staycation" is where you STAY at home and use that as a base for your VACATION!
It doesn't (despite what many news readers appear to think) mean that you're going on holiday in the UK instead of going abroad, unless my regular holidays surfing and biking in North Devon have suddenly become "Staycations"!
Holidays in the UK are still "proper" holidays!
:agree
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Does it really matter?? :'(
It matters to the whole UK Holiday Industry when the national media are implying that only going abroad is a "proper holiday".
Everyone knew
Of course they did... :rolleyes
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Does it really matter?? :'(
It matters to the whole UK Holiday Industry when the national media are implying that only going abroad is a "proper holiday".
Everyone knew
Of course they did... :rolleyes
I don't see why you are getting so upset about it - its a general term generally taken by most normal people to mean that you are not travelling abroad for a holiday nothing more to read into it than than that. I have not picked up on any media implying that staying in this country is "not a proper holiday" - of course it is. You seem overly touchy about it for some reason, perhaps you should go and have a little vent in the "Todays what gets my goat section"
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Regardless of what it means, I hate the word and so does pretty much everyone I speak to about it.
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Best to ignore what 'popular' media says.
A 'jab' is a boxer's punch. I've had a vaccination.
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I don't care for it either, but I wouldn't let it ruin my whole day.
Well its ruined mine :rollin
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Anyway. It's a play on 'vacation' which is another bloody Americanism.
Here we go on holiday.
So the correct term is 'stoliday'.
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I don't see why you are getting so upset about it
Don't see? Or just "don't want to see"?
its a general term generally taken by most normal people to mean that you are not travelling abroad for a holiday
Oh dear, fazersharp, is that the best you can do? "generally taken"? "by most normal people"?!
So anyone who disagrees with you isn't "normal"? :rolleyes
nothing more to read into it than than that. I have not picked up on any media implying that staying in this country is "not a proper holiday" - of course it is.
Ah, and because *you* haven't seen it, it does not exist. Well, that clearly settles the argument...! :rollin
You seem overly touchy about it for some reason, perhaps you should go and have a little vent in the "Todays what gets my goat section"
And now you resort to trying to patronise me in the hope that, somehow, this will give your argument more validity.
Whatever, you seem to be arguing just for the sake of it, so please enjoy getting the last word in on this subject.
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Anyone making use of the lateral flow tests everyone can now order in the post or collect from the chemist.
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Anyone making use of the lateral flow tests everyone can now order in the post or collect from the chemist.
I've got a box of them here that I got from Laly's a couple of months ago (they have a two year lifespan)
The Market I sell at in London require stallholders to upload a pic of a negative test the night before to be safe :thumbup
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Anyone making use of the lateral flow tests everyone can now order in the post or collect from the chemist.
The Market I sell at in London require stallholders to upload a pic of a negative test the night before to be safe :thumbup
Better than nothing i suppose and I don't know what else they could do but someone could easily redo a positive one with just the plain liquid and post that picture.
I picked mine up from the local chemist, they gave me 2 boxes - 14 tests. Visiting some elderly realitives so have had 2 before I visit.
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Better than nothing i suppose and I don't know what else they could do but someone could easily redo a positive one with just the plain liquid and post that picture.
Someonle could or they could just photoshop the picture etc. There's plenty of ways of faking a negative result, but in the BDSM community, people tend to be a bit more responsible about their behaviour.
Also they do a temperature check before allowing everyone into the venue, masks are worn (of various types ;) ), there's plenty of room for social distancing and there's a "one way" system to help keep people apart.
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Better than nothing i suppose and I don't know what else they could do but someone could easily redo a positive one with just the plain liquid and post that picture.
Someonle could or they could just photoshop the picture etc. There's plenty of ways of faking a negative result, but in the BDSM community, people tend to be a bit more responsible about their behaviour.
Also they do a temperature check before allowing everyone into the venue, masks are worn (of various types ;) ), there's plenty of room for social distancing and there's a "one way" system to help keep people apart.
Oh I see. When you said selling at a market I thought you had a stall next to someone selling cucumbers on a fruit and veg stall. :rollin
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8 areas with new advice In the areas listed, wherever possible, you should try to:Meet outside rather than inside where possibleKeep 2 metres apart from people that you don’t live with, this includes friends and family you don’t live withAvoid travelling in and out of affected areas unless it is essential, for example for work (if you cannot work from home) or education
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If the government acted *consistently* and promptly, we wouldn't be in the situation we are now.
Andy Burnham was complaining because Manchester was being locked down whilst similar areas weren't whilst, *at the same time* vulnerable people were being told they didn't need to shield any more!
There is simply NO coherence in government decision making and when Ministers start contracticting each other about what the rules are, it's no wonder that people are confused and afraid.
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Unfortunately government lacks the will to act in good time to actual threats. If the new Indian variant is so contagious then why allow flights into UK airports from the sub Continent?. While the government acted well over the vaccination program there has been a lack of simple but effective information and advice. which in some cases has been contradictory.
It is very upsetting for those of us who have followed the guidelines to hear on a daily basis of people breaking the rules and "interpreting" these to suit their own selfish motives.
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It is very upsetting for those of us who have followed the guidelines to hear on a daily basis of people breaking the rules and "interpreting" these to suit their own selfish motives.
You only have to look at the 8 places mentioned to know which comunities are not and never have abided by the rules. Time some politicians grew a backbone and told them in no uncertain terms to follow the rules.
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While the government acted well over the vaccination program
Not sure government have had much to do with the vaccination program.
Scientists + drugs companies + NHS + Local Health Authorities + volunteers
All the government has done is sign of few cheques.
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They opted out of the disastrous EU joint procurement programme for starters.
They were never obliged to be in it.
The only good decision they made, was to precede with the AstraZeneca vaccine, while other countries hesitated.
That's why we are where we are.
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I just knew that one was coming :rolleyes
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Time some politicians grew a backbone and told them in no uncertain terms to follow the rules.
They would first have to start obeying the rules themselves, but, as always, they are utter hypocrites who think that there's one rule for them and another for everyone else.
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You only have to look at the 8 places mentioned to know which comunities are not and never have abided by the rules.
Yep, found the community that's causing the problem :)
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It's a tricky one isn't it?
Deciding which liar to believe :rolleyes
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Had my second jab on Wednesday with no side affects at all, not even a wake up sweating this time. Perhaps that "episode" was just my age. :lol
One thing though this time is that I took my little card to get filled in with the batch number etc but they did not do it. I asked them and they said no need as it will be on the NHS app. Hmm.
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Been trying repeatedly to book my jab. Can have the first one next week but because none of my local centres can offer me my second then I can't book my first?? What kind of stupid system is this? So my choices now are keep waiting until the appointments change or have my first one then travel 40miles away for the second one in August 🙄
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Loads of people who were 'working' from home during lockdown have bought dogs to give them something to do walking them. A lot of these same people are now being asked to return to work.
Apparently, having seen the cost of professional dog walkers they're either handing them in to dog rescue centres as fast as they can, or are demanding that they be allowed to take them into work with them :rolleyes .
You couldn't make it up.
Look out for the new car window stickers 'A dog is for life not just for lockdown' It's incredible how short sighted some people are.
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They must have paid a fortune for them as well. Have you seen how much dogs, any dogs, are nowadays :eek . And it's easier to escape from Alcatraz than get one from a rescue centre.
Chinese eat them - and bats apparently --- if you believe the covid cover story.
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Well done your royal highness dutchess of Cambridge for publizing having your first vaccine. Meanwhile Jeza remains silent on the issue if he is a vaccine sceptic or not.
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You know, I can sell you some nice whips if you want to keep flogging that dead horse... :rolleyes
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That's ironic seeing how he's already had the Labour whip withdrawn :lol
Boom 💥
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That's ironic seeing how he's already had the Labour whip withdrawn :lol
:rolleyes
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I think the reason is that he can not have it due to an illness that he wants to keep hidden. I have always thought he has had a stroke, look at any interview with him, he always talks with his head to one side.
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And your medical qualifications are...?
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And your medical qualifications are...?
none whatsoever. Read what I said." I thought." I am just a bystander looking at what I see and I see a man who looks like he has had a stroke. Go ahead look at interviews, tell me he doesn't talk with his head cocked to one side.
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I have just found out that there was a massive anti lockdown protest in London, 100s of thousands marching through London. And not one mention of it on BBC or sky news. :eek
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I am just a bystander looking at what I see and I see a man who looks like he has had a stroke. Go ahead look at interviews, tell me he doesn't talk with his head cocked to one side.
And a big "so what if he does?" Of course I have little doubt that what you're *really* trying to imply is that he is possibly "brain damaged"... :rolleyes
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I have just found out that there was a massive anti lockdown protest in London, 100s of thousands marching through London. And not one mention of it on BBC or sky news. :eek
I wonder who made the decision at the BBC...?
The New BBC Chairman has DonatedOVER £400,000to the Conservatives (https://bylinetimes.com/2021/01/06/new-bbc-chairman-richard-sharp-donated-more-than-400000-to-conservative-party/)
Sharp spent 23 years working for New York banking giant Goldman Sachs and reportedly oversaw the work of Rishi Sunak, during the now Chancellor’s early career in the finance industry. Latterly, Sharp was on the Bank of England’s Financial Policy Committee for six years until 2019.
It also seems that the new BBC Chairman has made a minor career in the field of Conservative Party fundraising – donating an estimated £416,189 to the party and its politicians since the turn of the century.
[...]
His appointment follows that of Tim Davie, who was announced as the corporation’s new Director General in September. Davie stood as a councillor for the Conservative Party in 1993 and 1994, and was deputy chairman of the Hammersmith and Fulham Conservatives in the 1990s.
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I am just a bystander looking at what I see and I see a man who looks like he has had a stroke. Go ahead look at interviews, tell me he doesn't talk with his head cocked to one side.
And a big "so what if he does?" Of course I have little doubt that what you're *really* trying to imply is that he is possibly "brain damaged"... :rolleyes
So you agree then that he does look like he has had a stroke. Your hypothesis that he has brain damage would explain why he is staying tight lipped about his jab status. If he was to come clean and say he has not had it then he is either an anti vaxer like his brother or he has a medical condition that he wants to keep secret.
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The sooner the new Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill comes in the better.
Like in Belarus and Hong Kong, you mean? :rolleyes
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The sooner the new Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill comes in the better.
I thought the government haters pointed at Hong Kong as a lesson on the way to do things coronations
Like in Belarus and Hong Kong, you mean? :rolleyes
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thought the government haters pointed at Hong Kong as a lesson on the way to do things coronations
Trust you to bring the Royals into this :lol
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thought the government haters pointed at Hong Kong as a lesson on the way to do things coronations
Trust you to bring the Royals into this :lol
I give up on some devices, puts the reply in the quote and auto corrects it.
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So you agree then that he does look like he has had a stroke. Your hypothesis that he has brain damage would explain why he is staying tight lipped about his jab status. If he was to come clean and say he has not had it then he is either an anti vaxer like his brother or he has a medical condition that he wants to keep secret.
ROFL!!!
Oh fazersharp, you *really* aren't very good at this are you?
This is like trying to have a sensible discussion with a Flat Earther! Please, stop trying to put words into my mouth and make it seem as if I've agreed with your nonsensical and unproven speculation which is just an excuse to keep making digs at Jeremy Corbyn.
Now I'm not going to waste any more time on this rubbish.
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Finally got my appointments sorted 🥳 going to get my first jab Friday 💉💉
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[size=inherit]The World Health Organization has announced a new naming system for variants of Covid-19.[/size]
From now on the WHO will use Greek letters to refer to variants first detected in countries like the UK, South Africa and India.
The UK variant for instance is labelled as Alpha, the South African Beta, and the Indian as Delta.From the bbc -----a scientist said [size=inherit]the country was in the early stages of a third wave (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57304515)[/size] of coronavirus infections, in part driven by the Delta, or Indian variant.
It is thought to spread more quickly than the Alpha (UK; Kent) variant, which was responsible for the surge in cases in the UK over the winter.
Vietnam, meanwhile, has detected what appears to be [size=inherit]a combination of those two variants (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57296803)[/size].
WHO are a joke. People will now be even more confused with the stupid Greek re naming. Bbc feeling the need to add the old name in brackets. So what the veitnam scare variant now to be called then, Kent Alpha Indian delta FFS :rolleyes
Sounds like an episode of z cars.
And shouldn't the one from the Chinese lab be the one called Alpha. Where the foc is that one WHO ?. Seems like they are erasing it from history on the demand of their paymasters in China
Wanna make it easy call it Wuhan 1 wuhan 2, wuhan 3 etc
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Go on admit it. You thought it was a wind up until you googled it and found it to be true.
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Stand by for the convenient alpha delta (Vietnam )variant to be used as an excuse to stop the June 21 lockdown lifting. Funny how a new scary varent is found just before the government want to backtrack on somthing aded and abetted by the bbc.
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It's because they've discovered it's very infectious for grumpy old men who complain a lot ;)
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WHO are a joke. People will now be even more confused with the stupid Greek re naming.
Or maybe it will just help stop racist idiots making a big deal about the *location* a variant was first detected.
Naming Covid variants after place of origin ‘stigmatises’ countries, says WHO (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-variant-name-country-who-b1827697.html)
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WHO are a joke. People will now be even more confused with the stupid Greek re naming.
Or maybe it will just help stop racist idiots making a big deal about the *location* a variant was first detected.
Naming Covid variants after place of origin ‘stigmatises’ countries, says WHO (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-variant-name-country-who-b1827697.html)
WHO are a joke. People will now be even more confused with the stupid Greek re naming.
Or maybe it will just help stop racist idiots making a big deal about the *location* a variant was first detected.
Good thinking stupid WHO, now all Variants come from Greece. My local kebab shop has had its windows put in. :lol ?
Watch WHO backtrack on this.
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I'll call in at Fred's Pie Stall insteadDon't do that FFS! The Pi variant is yet to be found.
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The Quadram Institute in Norwich, UK, writing in New Scientist in March suggested that an approach similar to that used for naming storms might be useful for generating neutral and more memorable names for coronavirus. :rollin These people are supposed to be cleaver FFS. So the first one could be Jacki Chan, the Kent one William Shakespeare, the Indian one Mahatma gahandi the South African one Nelson Mandela and the New one in veitnam Pol Pot.
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I'll call in at Fred's Pie Stall insteadDon't do that FFS! The Pi variant is yet to be found.
Is that the one that recurs
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“To simplify public communications, WHO encourages national authorities, media outlets and others to adopt these new labels,” the WHO said
"SIMPLIFY" :eek Who the foc knows the Greek alphabet
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I don't see much wrong with a nation being stigmatised for foccing about with virus strains and failing to secure the premises, resulting in millions of people dying, being hospitalised, or suffering from long term illness as a result, nations having to shut down their economies, and then raise citizens taxes to pay for it all.
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I don't see much wrong with a nation being stigmatised for foccing about with virus strains and failing to secure the premises, resulting in millions of people dying, being hospitalised, or suffering from long term illness as a result, nations having to shut down their economies, and then raise citizens taxes to pay for it all.
Under trump, China was the biggest funder of WHO. Seems that WHO are not so stupid after all and have one eye on their gravy train that they do not want to upset and seem to be wanting to erase all references to the China virus.
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These people are supposed to be cleaver FFS.
Fazersharp, you really need to get that predictive text of yours fixed. :lol
Mine was a problem too, when it seemingly said I'd referred to our PM as a cult.
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The Quadram Institute in Norwich, UK, writing in New Scientist in March suggested that an approach similar to that used for naming storms might be useful for generating neutral and more memorable names for coronavirus. :rollin These people are supposed to be cleaver FFS. So the first one could be Jacki Chan, the Kent one William Shakespeare, the Indian one Mahatma gahandi the South African one Nelson Mandela and the New one in veitnam Pol Pot.[/font]
New one to add to the list. Tenzing Norgay but as the WHO would probably think thats too close to their bank rollers they will probably go with Edmund Hillary instead.
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Isn't Edmund Hillary a Kiwi though?.
'' Wasn't '' - past tense. Are we only choosing dead people so they aren't offended? :)
If so, the Kent variant could be named after Charles Dickens. In that 'how the Dickens have I caught this?'
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Isn't Edmund Hillary a Kiwi though?.
'' Wasn't '' - past tense. Are we only choosing dead people so they aren't offended? :)
No I was just struggling to find a famous person from Napal that wasn't tenzing. Edmund was the nearest I could get :lol and he ain't from Nepal or UK :'(
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Any way the WHO should forget about all the national variant names, there's only one and its Chinese. Lets have China 1 China 2.
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Can someone do the math here. its from the WHO report on Nepal.
Of the total COVID-19 positive cases, 75.94% (398,483) of cases have recovered and 22% (115,447) of cases are active.● Of the total active cases, 93.6% (108,071) of the active cases are in home isolation; 7,376 (6.4%) cases are undergoing hospital/institutional isolation of which 1,697 (1.5%) patients require ICU admission, amongst which 467 (0.4%) require ventilator support.
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I don't happen to think any foreign holiday travel should be allowed yet. But I feel that the UK travel is the fall guy as the government go all out to keep to the June 21st unlocking, various ministers mentioning a Nepal variant that the WHO know nothing about. Just like the people of Japan are under much more restrictions than they would be if there were no olympics.
WHO Nepal@WHONepal3 Jun
WHO is not aware of any new variant of SARS-CoV-2 being detected in Nepal. The confirmed variants in circulation are: Alpha (B.1.1.7), Delta (B.1.617.2) and Kappa (B.1.617.1). The predominant variant currently in circulation in Nepal is Delta (B.1.617.2).
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They were interviewing a bloke on the radio this morning who owns a villa in Portugal. He said he was 'totally shocked' that the country had gone from green to amber. Yeah right, is anyone genuinely 'totally shocked' at anything to do with international travel any more?.
Another couple had retired to Spain and were 'so upset' that they're grandchildren couldn't get over to visit them. They were happy enough to leave all their family thousands of miles behind in the first place pre-pandemic though weren't they :rolleyes
I have zero sympathy for people who have gone ahead and booked foreign holidays who are now moaning.
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Seeing how 'taking offence', or rather pretending you do, is now a national pastime I wouldn't be at all surprised if they started cashing in on it too.
Next you'll be saying Scott of the Antarctic was a snowflake!
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It was a joke... :'(
Like Bader drinking himself legless :)
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I thought the idea was for you to get your shot, not *get shot*...!!! :eek
COVID-19: Guns, beer and childcare on offer for Americans in move to increase coronavirus vaccinations (https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-guns-beer-and-childcare-on-offer-for-americans-in-move-to-increase-coronavirus-vaccinations-12323322)
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They were interviewing a bloke on the radio this morning who owns a villa in Portugal. He said he was 'totally shocked' that the country had gone from green to amber. Yeah right, is anyone genuinely 'totally shocked' at anything to do with international travel any more?.
Another couple had retired to Spain and were 'so upset' that they're grandchildren couldn't get over to visit them. They were happy enough to leave all their family thousands of miles behind in the first place pre-pandemic though weren't they :rolleyes
I have zero sympathy for people who have gone ahead and booked foreign holidays who are now moaning.
:agree
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I have zero sympathy for people who have gone ahead and booked foreign holidays who are now moaning.
Except what is the point in having a 'traffic light' system? What is the point the government having a green list of safe countries, and then withdrawing the most popular one with 4 days notice? They have again led people into false expectations.
And a coincidence travel to Portugal cancelled the week after two English football teams met there for the Champions League final?
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Just got jabbed. All in all it went smoothly enough except the fact I had to queue round the corner and down the street to get in to the bludy surgery which would be fine if they hadn't insist that I picked a 5 minute time slot when I was booking it 🙄
But yeah I'm in with the zombie rebirth squad if thing so south 🤣
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I have zero sympathy for people who have gone ahead and booked foreign holidays who are now moaning.
Except what is the point in having a 'traffic light' system? What is the point the government having a green list of safe countries, and then withdrawing the most popular one with 4 days notice? They have again led people into false expectations.
Rubbish - I don't believe people are that stupid. I love to travel and go on holiday but resiled it would be a game of Russian - or in this case Portuguese roulette. There was always far too much risk OMO. Clues in the name "traffic lights" I always approach a green expecting it to turn amber.
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It was moved from Turkey to Portugal as a 'safe' country. It only became 'unsafe' after we'd been there.
Yes Johnson ''sees which way the crowd is going and then runs to the front''.
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Rubbish - I don't believe people are that stupid.
You overestimate the populist led public.
So what was the point of having a green list?
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The government has taken no end of flack for acting 'too late again' in the past, now it's critisised for acting too quickly. You can't have it both ways.
The government takes flack for being inconsistent and incompetent
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He's a politician. They all do that
Apart from those that resign, and the 45 (or so) Tory rebels that will vote against the government's overseas aid proposals :)
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My favourite county Cornwall just on the news. Apparently they've had record numbers on holiday there this half term.
They said one site is charging 8k per week for a static caravan :eek . Madness.
I wonder if there's a widely used term for when you stay in your own country for a vacation? 🤔😝😝
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It was moved from Turkey to Portugal as a 'safe' country. It only became 'unsafe' after we'd been there.
wrong. The reason it went to Portugal rather than here is because Portugal said that all the fifa bigwigs did not have to isolate on arrival. We did the right thing and said we don't care who you are you need to isolate.
The people to blame are those at fifa..
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Fifa run world football, not European competitions such as the Champions League :rolleyes
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Fifa run world football, not European competitions such as the Champions League :rolleyes
The other ones then :lol
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Except what is the point in having a 'traffic light' system? What is the point the government having a green list of safe countries, and then withdrawing the most popular one with 4 days notice?
Personally, if Portugal is that bad it needs to go on the red list, it should be immediate, not with several days notice. Same with every other country.
The government is tracking numbers etc for all these countries so can give some notice that they are expecting this country or that country to drop down a level (amber to green etc) but not give a date. For countries going the other way, they could give some warning that a country may end up red/amber soon but the actual switch of bands should be immediate.
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Just listening to the papers review on LBC. Apparently India put pressure on the WHO to change the variant naming.
No surprise there
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Well I've just had my second jab, fingers crossed I don't feel knackered tomorrow, although I've decided to give the gym a miss anyway...
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Well said Tony Blair
:eek
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Do not trust what that snake says. He only sees it as a back door stepping stone for full ID cards - something he has been craving since he was the PM
Blair -- "With this ability to securely prove vaccination status, we can move beyond blunt, catch-all tools and align with other countries by removing certain restrictions for the fully vaccinated".
Apart from if you live in Hungary :rolleyes . They bypassed the EU's vax shambles and instead went for the Russian and Chinese one - so Brussels spat their dummy out and spitefully adopted a draft legislation about the digital green card (their vax passport ), Under the adopted proposal, only those who have been vaccinated with one of the vaccines approved by the EU Medicines Agency will benefit from the travel facilitation. This only targeted Hungary.
So instead Hungary started to announced bilateral agreements made separately with each EU state to recognise Hungary's vax passports to allow Hungarian citizens to travel without undergoing quarantine requirements. Hungary already reached such agreements with Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro, Slovenia, and Bahrain and Turkey. Now in the face of that the EU have backed down and will now allow Hungary's vax. So glad we are out of all that crap.
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They bypassed the EU's vax shambles and instead went for the Russian and Chinese one -
I thought you previously said China was to blame for everything? And would you trust a vaccine manufactured by the country that dishes out Novichock with no regard?
Anyway, holidays in the Falklands this year. :)
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They bypassed the EU's vax shambles and instead went for the Russian and Chinese one -
I thought you previously said China was to blame for everything? And would you trust a vaccine manufactured by the country that dishes out Novichock with no regard?
Anyway, holidays in the Falklands this year. :)
I did and what I posted doesn't change that when it comes to the Chinese virus. I thought Negative comments about vaccines were just from tin foil hat antivaxers, apparently both China's and the rusky are perfectly good vaccines according to the EU as they have now approved it. After spending months doing their best trying to discredit the Oxford AZ one
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Anyway, holidays in the Falklands this year. :)
Yep. Pay our respects to our brave boys :thumbup . See you there ;)
Shame this isn't still flying - could could of done trips down there.
(I will never pass up an opportunity to post this picture )
(https://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=18436.0;attach=21573;image)
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If I agree with the content it doesn't really matter to me who said it. I don't have to check to make sure they're wearing the right rosette first
Yep. I even agree with David Davis when he talks about cuts to overseas aid ;)
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Shame this isn't still flying - could could of done trips down there.
We've got one here at Southend Airport. They do open days and runway blasts every now and again.
Remember seeing my first at the Farnborough Air show in '69. Lovely, but not as good as the Lightnings doing vertical climbs :)
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but those were the days when they could afterburn with abandon weren't they
PARDON???? ;)
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We've got one here at Southend Airport. They do open days and runway blasts every now and again.
In the late 80's my year of apprentices from BCal did a trip to Southend to have a general look around. We were also allowed, for some strange reason to have a good clamber all over the Vulcan that was there at the time. Not sure if its the same one or not but it was a good day out.
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Well said Tony Blair
Sounds like those newspapers that claim credit for their "successful campaign to get XYZ to happen" which was already going to happen anyway...
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So, 24 Hours on from my second Covid Jab (Oxford AZ) and, thankfully, very few side effects.
I can feel a tiny ache in my arm and, this afternoon I had to zonk out for a couple of hours, but apart from that I'm fine :thumbup
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Before I was born ,
That's why you're still working, and I don't have to.
Where every day can be a biking day :)
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In the late 80's my year of apprentices from BCal did a trip to Southend to have a general look around. We were also allowed, for some strange reason to have a good clamber all over the Vulcan that was there at the time. Not sure if its the same one or not but it was a good day out.
Pretty certain it's the same one
https://avrovulcan.com/
Although it's a commercial airport ( Ryanair etc) we get some pretty interesting stuff. UK and foreign military often use it for practice take off and landings.
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It seems that the UK is more of a covid risk than France, Italy and Spain
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57403216 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57403216)
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It seems that the UK is more of a covid risk than France, Italy and Spain
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57403216 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57403216)
Well that article was confusing
The headline Travel: US eases travel rules for 61 countries - but not UK[/b] "Monday, which saw 61 countries lowered from a Level 4 "avoid all travel" rating. Countries such as France, Spain and Italy are now Level 3, which means fully-vaccinated passengers may go to these areas."
Although the UK is listed as a Level 3 (https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/covid-3/coronavirus-united-kingdom) by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), under a presidential decree introduced last March, non-US citizens who have been in the UK in the last 14 days cannot enter the country unless a specific exemption applies. (https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa/entry-requirements)
So we have been on level 3 since March and the 61 other countries have only just moved from 4 to 3
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In the late 80's my year of apprentices from BCal did a trip to Southend to have a general look around. We were also allowed, for some strange reason to have a good clamber all over the Vulcan that was there at the time. Not sure if its the same one or not but it was a good day out.
Pretty certain it's the same one
https://avrovulcan.com/
Although it's a commercial airport ( Ryanair etc) we get some pretty interesting stuff. UK and foreign military often use it for practice take off and landings.
I remember as a kid that we used to go to the airport after the airshow on the front as a lot of planes used to land there and let you have an up close look. It was part of the "airshow day" type thing and they would have stunt shows and a few stalls etc
This was of course back in the 90s when it was nothing more than a small airport, not "London Southend" as it seems to now be known.
Always makes me chuckle to think of some poor bastard in a far flung country booking their first trip to London and picking Southend as an airport thinking that it must be very close to the city, looking on Google tk see that it's less than an hours drive......to then be stuck on the A127 for 3 hours after they land 🤣
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Always makes me chuckle to think of some poor bastard in a far flung country booking their first trip to London and picking Southend as an airport thinking that it must be very close to the city, looking on Google tk see that it's less than an hours drive......to then be stuck on the A127 for 3 hours after they land 🤣
Hence Ryanair using it :)
An hour by train from Liverpool Street. When it used to commute into Southend, I'd often end up waking up tourists to stop them missing the airport station.
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So we have been on level 3 since March and the 61 other countries have only just moved from 4 to 3
Nevertheless, they can go and we can't.
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So we have been on level 3 since March and the 61 other countries have only just moved from 4 to 3
Nevertheless, they can go and we can't.
Yet same level 3.
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Yet same level 3.
If you've ever been through US Immigration...... none of it makes any sense.
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Quote[/size]Before I was born ,
That's why you're still working, and I don't have to.
Where every day can be a biking day
</blockquote>
Too hot for working or biking this week. Scorching hot here now.
Not today. 200 miles on Essex and Suffolk back roads up to Southwold, then Woodbridge and Ipswich for the speedway :)
It's all about having the choice :pokefun
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Yep :)
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That's great . It's nice not having to worry about where the next penny is coming from isn't it.
Not so. Unless you're a friend of a Tory Minister :)
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Expect to see news briefings by the 3 horsemen of the apocalypse with their scary charts as a warm up act laying the ground in the run up to borris anouncing lockdown extention.
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May already happening, as in delayed to July 19. But the source was 'The Sun', a tabloid rag not known for its unbiased and accurate reporting.
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Expect to see news briefings by the 3 horsemen of the apocalypse with their scary charts as a warm up act laying the ground in the run up to borris anouncing lockdown extention.
interesting that MR SHARPIE...had my second jab this morning and the nurse said "we already know lockdown will be extended" not sure if it was fact or chatter but probably right
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The only 'if' is whether it's 2 weeks delay or 4.
Laurence Fox will be fummin'
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Expect to see news briefings by the 3 horsemen of the apocalypse with their scary charts as a warm up act laying the ground in the run up to borris anouncing lockdown extention.
Difficult to see how they're going to justify it. I thought restrictions were to stop the NHS being overwhelmed?. It's not being overwhelmed is it?. There's no one admitted to my local hospital with it now and everyone over about 30 has had at least one jab, most two.
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Great to see so many of the pandemic heroes honoured in The Queen's Birthday Honours. Well deserved :thumbup
Fantastic to see Her Majesty enjoying Trooping The Colour at Windsor in the sunshine today too. Happy Birthday Ma'am :)
I think Windsor Castle is a much better place for it. It looks fantastic and is a far better backdrop than horesgaurds and Her Majesty looks so relaxed there. I see that she was freely mixing with the G7 without a covid care in the world. Everyone who has had 2 jabs would do well to do as our Queen and get on with our lives. If any minority group has refused the jabs then that's their problem but everyone else who has done their bit for this country should not pay the lockdown price for their selfishness.
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Government shouldn't take those who were eligible for a vaccination, but refused it, into account in any way when it comes to lockdown decisions.
That would be short-sighted and self-defeating, especially if the vaccine may be less effective to a more highly contagious variant.
Yes, some people may have refused the vaccine because of anti-vax nonsense, but some communities may have more people being "vaccine hesitant" because of misinformation (accidental or even deliberate) or because of a simple lack of trust in the authorities because they remember the number of times they have been screwed over by British governments in the past.
To adopt a "screw you, I'm alright Jack" mentality is selfish and discriminatory and will do little to encourage those people who are vaccine hesitant to change their minds because they'll be more likely to think "Here we go again, being treated as worthless by an establishment that never cared about us in the first place".
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Government shouldn't take those who were eligible for a vaccination, but refused it, into account in any way when it comes to lockdown decisions.
That would be short-sighted and self-defeating, especially if the vaccine may be less effective to a more highly contagious variant.
Yes, some people may have refused the vaccine because of anti-vax nonsense, but some communities may have more people being "vaccine hesitant" because of misinformation (accidental or even deliberate) or because of a simple lack of trust in the authorities because they remember the number of times they have been screwed over by British governments in the past.
To adopt a "screw you, I'm alright Jack" mentality is selfish and discriminatory and will do little to encourage those people who are vaccine hesitant to change their minds because they'll be more likely to think "Here we go again, being treated as worthless by an establishment that never cared about us in the first place".
The government are doing everything possible to accommodate everyone with these vaccines, with back up by scientists, to make them as safe as can be for the UK's general population. Like with the blood clot scenario with the AZ jabs, they don't even offer these to the younger generations now, under a certain age, who were the ones most affected.
The only people being selfish right now are the people that are mixed up in their heads and refusing the vaccines and still spreading the virus about. These very same people are the ones holding the UK back to moving on to some sort of normality which is so obviously becoming desperately needed.
If thousands of people were dropping down dead or becoming desperately ill because of the vaccine then i would totally sympathise.....but they simply aren't. And anyone becoming ill due to side effects are no different to most other over the counter things we buy that come with a warning. All prescribed drugs from the doctors have a leaflet with a long list of side effects, but when you're ill you take your chance that they're very highly likely going to make you better rather than harm you in any way.
So in this instance i would most certainly say that the selfish ones are definitely not the ones who have done their bit for society, and welcomed the chance of having vaccines to protect themselves AND others, but most certainly the ditherers, non believers and small minded people that continue to bring this country to its knees by refusing their jabs, not only prolonging everyone else's misery, but heightening the chance of yet another wave, along with job losses too when many businesses cannot take any more closures over something that will never ever totally go away.
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I've done everything that's required of me during this pandemic. I've had both the vaccinations, taken part in twice weekly lateral flow testing (still doing so) and followed every rule that's been required.
That's good to hear.
But we're not going to get out of this pandemic just because of what *you* have done and governments need to take into account *everyone*, not dismiss people/ groups because, for whatever reason, they haven't done the same.
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some communities may have more people being "vaccine hesitant" because of misinformation (accidental or even deliberate) or because of a simple lack of trust in the authorities because they remember the number of times they have been screwed over by British governments in the past.
So if you are the wrong community you are a anti vax nut but if you belong to other communities then you are "vaccine hesitant". Its the same areas every time. As far as I can see the government has bent over backwards to get the vax message out to these communities.
Calling it Delta may of even made things worse as a lot of these communities probably think the Indian one has gone. Call it the Indian variant and press the message home to them.
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So if you are the wrong community you are a anti vax nut but if you belong to other communities then you are "vaccine hesitant".
I am not making any judgements about "communities", people have different reasons for declining vaccinations.
Whatever those reasons and whether they are misguided or misinformed or they are due to mistrust of the government or scientists or whatever, these are still *people* with lives that need to be considered when decisions are made.
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At the end of the day it comes down to personal responsibility and if certain people still choose not to accept it there's little more the government can do.
Let me draw a parallel example: A lot of people resisted a seat belt law because it should be "personal responsibility" or an infringement on their "freedoms" etc.
In 1982, the year before the seat belt law was introduced, 2,443 people were killed in accidents on Britain’s roads. 30 years later, that figure had dropped to 816. Now that might not all have been due to seatbelts, but they were certainly contributory to it and yet people's "freedoms" are still intact.
Not wearing a seatbelt only affects you, but someone who is (for whatever reason) not vaccinated, can spread the virus to others and may even have a variant that the vaccine may not work on.
Now, yes, their decision not to be vaccinated may *also* be selfish, but demanding that the rules be changed because of what the majority have done (let alone because someone has declared an arbitrary date as "Freedom Day") when there is still a risk of new outbreaks, as is happening at the moment, will just make the situation worse, so decisions that affect the whole population have to consider this fact.
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So if you are the wrong community you are a anti vax nut but if you belong to other communities then you are "vaccine hesitant".
these are still *people* with lives that need to be considered when decisions are made.
Yes you are perfectly right and I agree with you 100%. We should protect those people that will not have the jab by informing them that they should shield and stay at home to protect themselves.
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At the end of the day it comes down to personal responsibility and if certain people still choose not to accept it there's little more the government can do.
Let me draw a parallel example: A lot of people resisted a seat belt law because it should be "personal responsibility" or an infringement on their "freedoms" etc.
In 1982, the year before the seat belt law was introduced, 2,443 people were killed in accidents on Britain’s roads. 30 years later, that figure had dropped to 816. Now that might not all have been due to seatbelts, but they were certainly contributory to it and yet people's "freedoms" are still intact.
Not wearing a seatbelt only affects you, but someone who is (for whatever reason) not vaccinated, can spread the virus to others and may even have a variant that the vaccine may not work on.
Now, yes, their decision not to be vaccinated may *also* be selfish, but demanding that the rules be changed because of what the majority have done (let alone because someone has declared an arbitrary date as "Freedom Day") when there is still a risk of new outbreaks, as is happening at the moment, will just make the situation worse, so decisions that affect the whole population have to consider this fact.
I have heard the "seat belt" one on the radio too. :rolleyes And I have heard it repeated loads of times from people repeating it as though it was their own. Its apt that you should use the seatbelt metaphor because the same communities that we are referring to who are refusing the jab are also the same ones who repeatedly flout the seatbelt laws.
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So if you are the wrong community you are a anti vax nut but if you belong to other communities then you are "vaccine hesitant".
these are still *people* with lives that need to be considered when decisions are made.
Yes you are perfectly right and I agree with you 100%. We should protect those people that will not have the jab by informing them that they should shield and stay at home to protect themselves.
*...and protect everyone else from them too.
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At the end of the day it comes down to personal responsibility and if certain people still choose not to accept it there's little more the government can do.
Let me draw a parallel example: A lot of people resisted a seat belt law because it should be "personal responsibility" or an infringement on their "freedoms" etc.
In 1982, the year before the seat belt law was introduced, 2,443 people were killed in accidents on Britain’s roads. 30 years later, that figure had dropped to 816. Now that might not all have been due to seatbelts, but they were certainly contributory to it and yet people's "freedoms" are still intact.
Not wearing a seatbelt only affects you, but someone who is (for whatever reason) not vaccinated, can spread the virus to others and may even have a variant that the vaccine may not work on.
Now, yes, their decision not to be vaccinated may *also* be selfish, but demanding that the rules be changed because of what the majority have done (let alone because someone has declared an arbitrary date as "Freedom Day") when there is still a risk of new outbreaks, as is happening at the moment, will just make the situation worse, so decisions that affect the whole population have to consider this fact.
There will ALWAYS be a risk of new outbreaks, this is one virus that is not going away for a very long time. But surely being on a small island like ours, and with the undoubtedly fantastic vaccine programme that we had the privilege to be a part of, does it not make total sense to want to "keep it at bay" as much as possible?
When you have the bulk of people doing their thing to try and get a grip on the virus, why should a minority spoil it for everyone by leaving themselves totally open for infection and further spreading, as is about to happen again by the sounds of things?
The vaccines work, it's a proven fact now. They're not perfect by any means, i recently heard a mate of mines dad has tested Positive and he'd had both of his jabs, so a few will slip through the net, but in the same breath he's not "very ill" at all, it was just a random test with an unexpected result, but then again we always knew they weren't touted as 100% effective.
Our main downfall will generally come from people bringing the virus in from outside of the UK, seeing as some countries are still in a right state and out of control and it's no surprise that people want to run away from these areas, but if you're going to reside here then i think it's only fair that you get vaccinated.
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Government shouldn't take those who were eligible for a vaccination, but refused it, into account in any way when it comes to lockdown decisions.
To adopt a "screw you, I'm alright Jack" mentality is selfish and discriminatory and will do little to encourage those people who are vaccine hesitant to change their minds because they'll be more likely to think "Here we go again, being treated as worthless by an establishment that never cared about us in the first place".
I've done everything that's required of me during this pandemic. I've had both the vaccinations, taken part in twice weekly lateral flow testing (still doing so) and followed every rule that's been required.
I totally agree. So you are now calling everyone who did what they were told and stepped up to take the vax - selfish. --- REALLY !
[removed comments that have already been removed from the original post - bkd]
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And to misquote someone by only posting part of what they posted is unproductive at best and antagonistic at worst.
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Fine no worries - I see no point in further posting here today if you are just going to remove things YOU do not agree with.
By removing a few lines of text that is EXACTLY what you have done.
I'll explain this to both of you one time, parts of each post were removed and the reason given in each post. Its called moderating and said edits and decisions are not up for discussion. And on that note I have removed 2 of your posts as they are off-topic.
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I have heard the "seat belt" one on the radio too. :rolleyes And I have heard it repeated loads of times from people repeating it as though it was their own.
I don't listen to the radio. Neither have I heard anyone else using that analogy.
Its apt that you should use the seatbelt metaphor because the same communities that we are referring to who are refusing the jab are also the same ones who repeatedly flout the seatbelt laws.
When I've been out on the roads I have seen people from all "communities" not wearing seatbelts, usng mobile phones and doing other dangerous things.
Please stop implying that only people from a particular area or a specific ethic origin or any other discriminatory references are responsible for this, because that is not the case and I will not engage in any further discussions of such topics.
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There will ALWAYS be a risk of new outbreaks, this is one virus that is not going away for a very long time. But surely being on a small island like ours, and with the undoubtedly fantastic vaccine programme that we had the privilege to be a part of, does it not make total sense to want to "keep it at bay" as much as possible?
We HAD that opportunity over a year ago!
We have *repeatedly* had opportunities to keep it at bay, unfortunately some people were more concerned about their "freedoms" (or their profits!) and made decisions that have been derided as hindsight, often by the people who couldn't or wouldn't make the hard decisions.
Our main downfall will generally come from people bringing the virus in from outside of the UK, seeing as some countries are still in a right state and out of control
There are countries which are CRYING OUT for the vaccines which have been hogged by the rich countries who were patting themselves on the back for getting their orders in first and buying up huge stocks (more than their people could ever need).
This contributes to them being in a "right state and out of control".
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When I've been out on the roads I have seen people from all "communities" not wearing seatbelts, usng mobile phones and doing other dangerous things.
In my experience, drivers of white vans with the name of some builders on the side
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Our main downfall will generally come from people bringing the virus in from outside of the UK, seeing as some countries are still in a right state and out of control
As I may have mentioned before...... in January we were that country. The Alpha variant originating in Kent led to our infection rate soaring, causing a second wave, which we 'exported' all round Europe
There is no point us, or any other country pointing the finger. We're all in this together.
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There will ALWAYS be a risk of new outbreaks, this is one virus that is not going away for a very long time. But surely being on a small island like ours, and with the undoubtedly fantastic vaccine programme that we had the privilege to be a part of, does it not make total sense to want to "keep it at bay" as much as possible?
We HAD that opportunity over a year ago!
We have *repeatedly* had opportunities to keep it at bay, unfortunately some people were more concerned about their "freedoms" (or their profits!) and made decisions that have been derided as hindsight, often by the people who couldn't or wouldn't make the hard decisions.
Our main downfall will generally come from people bringing the virus in from outside of the UK, seeing as some countries are still in a right state and out of control
There are countries which are CRYING OUT for the vaccines which have been hogged by the rich countries who were patting themselves on the back for getting their orders in first and buying up huge stocks (more than their people could ever need).
This contributes to them being in a "right state and out of control".
You can't knock us for "patting ourselves on the back" just because we got something right for a change? Would you prefer us to have not been ahead of the game and done things differently, and perhaps been at the back of the queue instead, because that would just not make any sense?
By the way, India, for example, has the 5th largest economy in the world, so what's their excuse? It's not money, it's a blatant disregard of the capabilities of the virus. They can't even use the excuse that it came from nowhere, as they've had over a year to contemplate any kind of plan. But the reality is that they shrugged it off in the hope that god would watch over them, and that ideology is not turning out too well right now.
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The Alpha variant originating in Kent led to our infection rate soaring, causing a second wave, which we 'exported' all round Europe
There is no point us, or any other country pointing the finger. We're all in this together.
We dont know it originated in this country or any other country, its just it was first detected in larger numbers in Kent. For all we know it could have come over on a rubber dingy from Calais or via Bristol/Berlin/Brighton/anywhere. This is one of the reasons that have now renamed it the Alpha variant and the "Indian variant" is now known as the Delta variant. Too much finger pointing and blaming other places.
Personally, I stall blame the Chinese :pokefun
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You can't knock us for "patting ourselves on the back" just because we got something right for a change? Would you prefer us to have not been ahead of the game and done things differently, and perhaps been at the back of the queue instead, because that would just not make any sense?
It's not an either/or situation.
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You can't knock us for "patting ourselves on the back" just because we got something right for a change? Would you prefer us to have not been ahead of the game and done things differently, and perhaps been at the back of the queue instead, because that would just not make any sense?
It's not an either/or situation.
Meaning?
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The Alpha variant originating in Kent led to our infection rate soaring, causing a second wave, which we 'exported' all round Europe
There is no point us, or any other country pointing the finger. We're all in this together.
We dont know it originated in this country or any other country, its just it was first detected in larger numbers in Kent. For all we know it could have come over on a rubber dingy from Calais or via Bristol/Berlin/Brighton/anywhere. This is one of the reasons that have now renamed it the Alpha variant and the "Indian variant" is now known as the Delta variant. Too much finger pointing and blaming other places.
Personally, I stall blame the Chinese :pokefun
Same as the Spanish Flu, it was definitely not started in Spain. They were the ones who had free reign to report on it, due to having no involvement in WW1, whereas most other countries had a total media ban.
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You can't knock us for "patting ourselves on the back" just because we got something right for a change? Would you prefer us to have not been ahead of the game and done things differently, and perhaps been at the back of the queue instead, because that would just not make any sense?
It's not an either/or situation.
Meaning?
Meaning it doesn't have to be either selfishly buying up and then hogging vaccines when we have ordered more than we'd ever need or being "at the back of the queue".
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I'd have thought being the major funder of the AZ vaccine and part of the requirement being "at cost" and easier to store in hot countries makes the UK pretty charitable in the first place.We should be free to pat ourselves on the back for that.
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I'd have thought being the major funder of the AZ vaccine and part of the requirement being "at cost" and easier to store in hot countries makes the UK pretty charitable in the first place.We should be free to pat ourselves on the back for that.
You might like to check who tried to claim that it was "because of greed".
Oh, and: "More than £228 million worth of grants were identified – the largest chunk of which came from overseas governments including the EU, followed by the UK and then charitable organisations. [...]
"As coronavirus started to spread in January 2020, the UK government stepped in with more than £33 million of funding for the vaccine – on top of the £5 million it had already given"
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-97-publicly-funded-researchers-reveal-264377/ (https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-97-publicly-funded-researchers-reveal-264377/)
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An interesting article someone pointed me to...
Long Covid: Vaccine cuts chances of getting condition by a third, according to major new study (https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/long-covid-vaccine-cuts-chance-third-major-new-study-1058474)
“Put simply, vaccinations help reduce the chance of getting Covid, and in the unlikely event you do develop it, a reduced chance of going on to get Long Covid.”