thicker sprocket nut worth a check

[fazersharp]

On the other hand when we are talking about 80/90Nm how much of a difference would 10Nm make - 10Nm on its own is almost hand tight.
By now if you are on OEM and have not had a loose nut or it fall off then I would say that your shaft is to spec, so technically perhaps you do not even need the thicker nut ?
So no deed for the thicker nut and if you did put one on then no need for 90Nm.
If the thicker nut along with 90Nm has came about from extensive testing (on an under sized shaft ) then is there still a worry needed about going all the way to 90Nm on an undersized shaft.

For the record I am convinced that my shaft is the correct size as are all 98 reg bikes BUT when I change sprockets I will be putting on the fatter nut with thread lock 620 and to 80Nm

Now then a while back there was a discussion about lube and the effect on torque settings - so wont threadlock be the same as adding lube to the thread.?

[darrsi]

On the other hand when we are talking about 80/90Nm how much of a difference would 10Nm make - 10Nm on its own is almost hand tight.
By now if you are on OEM and have not had a loose nut or it fall off then I would say that your shaft is to spec, so technically perhaps you do not even need the thicker nut ?
So no deed for the thicker nut and if you did put one on then no need for 90Nm.
If the thicker nut along with 90Nm has came about from extensive testing (on an under sized shaft ) then is there still a worry needed about going all the way to 90Nm on an undersized shaft.

For the record I am convinced that my shaft is the correct size as are all 98 reg bikes BUT when I change sprockets I will be putting on the fatter nut with thread lock 620 and to 80Nm

Now then a while back there was a discussion about lube and the effect on torque settings - so wont threadlock be the same as adding lube to the thread.?

No, it works in a different way.
If you remember, the correct way of "lubing" AND getting a true torque reading was by using engine oil.

[YamFazFan]

[/quote]
Yamaha put their hands up to that fault and have replaced free of charge the 9 mm nut with a 12 mm nut when bikes went in for a service or maintenance
[/quote]


Mine never got replaced at service or maintenance.

When I went to purchase the 12mm nut at the dealers they didn't seem to be aware of the issue at all.

They tried to sell me the old 9mm nut until I handed them the part number for the uprated one and asked them to just order that, rather than keep referencing back to parts list.

The independent garage I currently use knew all about the situation when I took the nut kit to them for fitting

[fazersharp]

On the other hand when we are talking about 80/90Nm how much of a difference would 10Nm make - 10Nm on its own is almost hand tight.
By now if you are on OEM and have not had a loose nut or it fall off then I would say that your shaft is to spec, so technically perhaps you do not even need the thicker nut ?
So no deed for the thicker nut and if you did put one on then no need for 90Nm.
If the thicker nut along with 90Nm has came about from extensive testing (on an under sized shaft ) then is there still a worry needed about going all the way to 90Nm on an undersized shaft.

For the record I am convinced that my shaft is the correct size as are all 98 reg bikes BUT when I change sprockets I will be putting on the fatter nut with thread lock 620 and to 80Nm

Now then a while back there was a discussion about lube and the effect on torque settings - so wont threadlock be the same as adding lube to the thread.?

No, it works in a different way.
If you remember, the correct way of "lubing" AND getting a true torque reading was by using engine oil.

Just remind me the way it works then, are you saying that torquing up dry will lead to under torquing as it bites too early and all torque settings are based on engine oil as lube 

It seems that yam have got away with it because I dont know of any reports of shafts being replaced when the thread gets foced by the fault because by the time it happens to someone the bike is years out of warranty. So instead of a big recall they have got away with it by throwing a 10p nut at the problem.

[darrsi]

No, the discussion was about using copper grease, and how it affects torque settings.
Then just to make sure i fucked up my rear caliper using copper grease with a torque setting of about 10Nm. 

[tommyardin]

On the other hand when we are talking about 80/90Nm how much of a difference would 10Nm make - 10Nm on its own is almost hand tight.
By now if you are on OEM and have not had a loose nut or it fall off then I would say that your shaft is to spec, so technically perhaps you do not even need the thicker nut ?
So no deed for the thicker nut and if you did put one on then no need for 90Nm.
If the thicker nut along with 90Nm has came about from extensive testing (on an under sized shaft ) then is there still a worry needed about going all the way to 90Nm on an undersized shaft.

For the record I am convinced that my shaft is the correct size   as are all 98 reg bikes BUT when I change sprockets I will be putting on the fatter nut with thread lock 620 and to 80Nm

Now then a while back there was a discussion about lube and the effect on torque settings - so wont threadlock be the same as adding lube to the thread.?

Sharpie you are always saying stuff like that LOL 

[fazersharp]

You know what as I was writing that I was expecting you to respond to it, and gave it to you 

[tommyardin]

Well! we all gotta do what we all gotta do, 


I still think Yamaha knows a lot more about Yamaha's than Joe average on here and I name myself amongst those.


So what I am saying I suppose is each to their own, we decide for our selves and if we foc it up, WE foc it up.


Mine went up to 90Nm with no trouble at all in fact I was quite surprised how easy it was to get it to 90Nm with my torque wrench, mind you the torque wrench is about 19 or 20 inches long so lots of leverage.


Everyone has their own opinion and you will always have disagreement whether you talking about Batteries ,Tyres, Oil, Spark Plugs, Filter or fuel additives. 


Oh! I said earlier that I had an Afam front sprocket to go on the old girl when it is actually a Renthal.


And something else i will do is replace the 12 mm nut and washer with new when I put the new sprocket on, there is a school of thought that says that that when a nut or bolt has been under stress it deforms and does not return to its original state when slackened off, and, when you return the nut or bolt to the original torque it can snap as it was already stressed before tightening.
I know a lot of bolts on cars now have to be replaced once they have been torqued up especially high stress area like cylinder head bolts, so as this nut is suspect I will err on the side of caution and replace the fixing kit.
I purchased 3 nuts and 3 washers when I originally changed the nut for the 12 mm one last autumn.


Some where on here I did read that there was possibly some output shafts that were produced outside of Yamaha factory to help keep up with demand, don't know why it would just be the output shaft? what about the rest of the gear box?????


Anyway I read that the first of the FZS600 had the Yamaha shaft and once the fault was detected the later ones had the up to scratch shaft again, so it was just the intermediate years that seemed to struggle.
There is one fault with that reasoning though as I understand things and that is some of the early FZ6's had a similar problem.
All I know is that I bloody near burst a blood vessel trying to get the original nut off mine and ended up taking it to a garage and the guy took it off with a windy spanner and he had the compressor running as he did it.


  <<<< his problem is tight nuts 

[tommyardin]

You know what as I was writing that I was expecting you to respond to it, and gave it to you 

Thank you 

[tommyardin]

Yamaha put their hands up to that fault and have replaced free of charge the 9 mm nut with a 12 mm nut when bikes went in for a service or maintenance



Mine never got replaced at service or maintenance.

When I went to purchase the 12mm nut at the dealers they didn't seem to be aware of the issue at all.

They tried to sell me the old 9mm nut until I handed them the part number for the uprated one and asked them to just order that, rather than keep referencing back to parts list.

The independent garage I currently use knew all about the situation when I took the nut kit to them for fitting



Hi YamFazFan,


A request went out to all Official Yamaha dealerships telling them to replace the nut and washer as a matter of course whenever an FZS 600 came into their workshops to have work done to them, and the replacement was free, and the workshop was to put a centre punch mark after the info on the  frame plate near the steering head.  There was never an official call back as it was deemed to be a relatively small number of machines afflicted with this fault/problem and judging by the numbers of FZS 600 still about some 14 to 19 years later it sort of bears this out. And to be honest if this wasn't the case would we be the proud owners of our bikes or would we all be on Honda or Quackers.

[darrsi]

Mine actually did the opposite, and it took my mechanic supposedly 40mins to get my nut off!


That sounds so wrong....

[tommyardin]

Mine actually did the opposite, and it took my mechanic supposedly 40mins to get my nut off!


That sounds so wrong....

It does on all levels

[darrsi]

Instead of just "falling off" it just did some weird bonding shit and fused itself to the shaft.......oh i'm sorry that sounds so very wrong as well.
Anyway, instead of a quick replacement on top of a tyre change, it became an expensive process, but in fairness i'd rather he fixed it than me.
I was told a LOT of heat was needed, in his words.

[YamFazFan]

Yamaha put their hands up to that fault and have replaced free of charge the 9 mm nut with a 12 mm nut when bikes went in for a service or maintenance



Mine never got replaced at service or maintenance.

When I went to purchase the 12mm nut at the dealers they didn't seem to be aware of the issue at all.

They tried to sell me the old 9mm nut until I handed them the part number for the uprated one and asked them to just order that, rather than keep referencing back to parts list.

The independent garage I currently use knew all about the situation when I took the nut kit to them for fitting



Hi YamFazFan,


A request went out to all Official Yamaha dealerships telling them to replace the nut and washer as a matter of course whenever an FZS 600 came into their workshops to have work done to them, and the replacement was free, and the workshop was to put a centre punch mark after the info on the  frame plate near the steering head.  There was never an official call back as it was deemed to be a relatively small number of machines afflicted with this fault/problem and judging by the numbers of FZS 600 still about some 14 to 19 years later it sort of bears this out. And to be honest if this wasn't the case would we be the proud owners of our bikes or would we all be on Honda or Quackers.

Hi tommyyardin

I wonder if because my Fazer was one of the last in the production run it wasn't affected by this issue?.

 The original 9mm nut never came adrift thankfully, but it's got to be a good idea to fit the uprated nut anyway isn't it.

[fazersharp]

Mine actually did the opposite, and it took my mechanic supposedly 40mins to get my nut off!


That sounds so wrong....

Clearly your shaft is in spec ------------ came from the 98 factory run

EDIT
Sorry I didnt see your later reply about it being fused on,being the reason it took so long -sounds like you have a thin shaft.

I wouldn't say my bike is pampered I just don't like getting wet, that's what the car is for. I doesn't get very dirty because of the dry riding and it is kept in a garage. I dont get to ride as often as I would like because of family and work commitments and so the mileage is also low  its on 20k now 19 years old.

 

[fazersharp]

Yamaha put their hands up to that fault and have replaced free of charge the 9 mm nut with a 12 mm nut when bikes went in for a service or maintenance



Mine never got replaced at service or maintenance.

When I went to purchase the 12mm nut at the dealers they didn't seem to be aware of the issue at all.

They tried to sell me the old 9mm nut until I handed them the part number for the uprated one and asked them to just order that, rather than keep referencing back to parts list.

The independent garage I currently use knew all about the situation when I took the nut kit to them for fitting



Hi YamFazFan,


A request went out to all Official Yamaha dealerships telling them to replace the nut and washer as a matter of course whenever an FZS 600 came into their workshops to have work done to them, and the replacement was free, and the workshop was to put a centre punch mark after the info on the  frame plate near the steering head.  There was never an official call back as it was deemed to be a relatively small number of machines afflicted with this fault/problem and judging by the numbers of FZS 600 still about some 14 to 19 years later it sort of bears this out. And to be honest if this wasn't the case would we be the proud owners of our bikes or would we all be on Honda or Quackers.

Hi tommyyardin

I wonder if because my Fazer was one of the last in the production run it wasn't affected by this issue?.

 The original 9mm nut never came adrift thankfully, but it's got to be a good idea to fit the uprated nut anyway isn't it.

Yes I think you are right --- fit the new nut when you replace the sprocket.
And I think as yours is one of the last by that time the fault with the thin shaft was noted and yours i s(maybe) ok--- read my post below 

[darrsi]

Mine actually did the opposite, and it took my mechanic supposedly 40mins to get my nut off!


That sounds so wrong....

Clearly your shaft is in spec ------------ came from the 98 factory run

Moot point, your bike craves a bit of rain.

[darrsi]

Fazersharp, as much as i totally get your point about '98's not having an issue, i would've loved to see your exact bike under the strain of all year round weather for the last 18 years.
Every bike is obviously different but yours has been a tad pampered.

[tommyardin]

Fazersharp, as much as i totally get your point about '98's not having an issue, i would've loved to see your exact bike under the strain of all year round weather for the last 18 years.
Every bike is obviously different but yours has been a tad pampered.

   We all pamper those we love. My FZS 600 is pampered, (as is my MR2 Spider is pampered) the Fazer gets treated well, never ridden purposefully in the rain, has the best cleaning products on it (Oh no! Personal preferences again) oil changed on or before due, spark plugs every 6k or every other oil change, air filter every other year bearing in mind the bike probably only gets ridden two or three times between beginning of Nov and end of Feb. I purchased some carbatooter balancing gauges about a year ago so I am hoping to be able to get around to balancing them this week along the the new front sprocket

[darrsi]

Mine actually did the opposite, and it took my mechanic supposedly 40mins to get my nut off!


That sounds so wrong....

Clearly your shaft is in spec ------------ came from the 98 factory run

It's very weird that you should say that, i dunno if it's coincidence or a mistake, but when i put my bike number plate into the AJ Sutton website it always shows a a '98 bike, even though it's an 'X' reg and a 2000 SP model?

[tommyardin]

Yamaha put their hands up to that fault and have replaced free of charge the 9 mm nut with a 12 mm nut when bikes went in for a service or maintenance



Mine never got replaced at service or maintenance.

When I went to purchase the 12mm nut at the dealers they didn't seem to be aware of the issue at all.

They tried to sell me the old 9mm nut until I handed them the part number for the uprated one and asked them to just order that, rather than keep referencing back to parts list.

The independent garage I currently use knew all about the situation when I took the nut kit to them for fitting



Hi YamFazFan,


A request went out to all Official Yamaha dealerships telling them to replace the nut and washer as a matter of course whenever an FZS 600 came into their workshops to have work done to them, and the replacement was free, and the workshop was to put a centre punch mark after the info on the  frame plate near the steering head.  There was never an official call back as it was deemed to be a relatively small number of machines afflicted with this fault/problem and judging by the numbers of FZS 600 still about some 14 to 19 years later it sort of bears this out. And to be honest if this wasn't the case would we be the proud owners of our bikes or would we all be on Honda or Quackers.

Hi tommyyardin

I wonder if because my Fazer was one of the last in the production run it wasn't affected by this issue?.

 The original 9mm nut never came adrift thankfully, but it's got to be a good idea to fit the uprated nut anyway isn't it.

As I said its all history now as far as Yamaha is concerned, the FZS 600 has a reputation for being a reliable bike with a bomb proof engine as long as it is serviced regularly, OK it had a quirky issues with the front sprocket nut letting go but, only on some bikes. I wonder what the mileage was on the bikes with the problem sprockets, I wonder if the front sprockets had been changed on any of them? if that was the case had the nuts been done up properly.


Anyway YamFazFun, me, I'm just an old Joe Blow who rides and enjoys his FZS600, but it would seem to me to be a wise thing changing the Nut and washer when changing the front sprocket, Yamaha call it an upgrade kit so it's certainly an improvement even if some have found that the original was a bastard to get off as I did, as I said I nearly bust a blood vessel in my neck straining to undo the bugger, even with a 3 foot length of 1 1/2" inch galvanised steel pipe over the socket wrench handle and still managed to bend the pipe. The windy gun just shocked the shit out of it and it eventually let go.


I think a lot of that issue is caused by the 620 Locite, but its better to have that removal problem, which is manageable, than to have the sprocket come off messing up your output shaft or worse still causing you to come off when it all goes tits up.

[Jules-C]

If you fitting new nut and sprocket just dremel the old one off making sure you don't touch the threads on the end of the shaft.

[fazersharp]

Mine actually did the opposite, and it took my mechanic supposedly 40mins to get my nut off!


That sounds so wrong....

Clearly your shaft is in spec ------------ came from the 98 factory run

EDIT
Sorry I didnt see your later reply about it being fused on,being the reason it took so long to get off -sounds like you have a thin shaft.

I wouldn't say my bike is pampered I just don't like getting wet, that's what the car is for. I doesn't get very dirty because of the dry riding and it is kept in a garage. I dont get to ride as often as I would like because of family and work commitments and so the mileage is also low  its on 20k now 19 years old.

 

[tommyardin]

If you fitting new nut and sprocket just dremel the old one off making sure you don't touch the threads on the end of the shaft.

LOL! How long you been a mind reader Jules? I am just sorting out the stuff to remove the 12 mm nut if it proves to be a bugger like the 9 mm one was.
The mouth wash, tomato kethup and bananas play no part in the operation.

[tommyardin]

Been experiencing grinding sounds in the chain department and a quiet knock on corners; thinking it related to the winter road crap and salt (how much lube do I have to throw  at this not year old chain ffs) I figure a clean is in order.




Removed the front cover, loads of crap around the front sprocket so the scoop out begins and suddenly once enough crud is removed to my horror the the sprocket wobbles.




The new wider nut has come off. I found the lock washer down below which had been bent round the nut as required   


but some how flattened off.










I replaced the chain and sprocket in May, torqued correctly (imo) to the spec suggested for wider  nut.

Hey Midden!
I bet when you started this post off you did not realise it would go on so long.
well done buddy