Anybody got any idea what's going on with my bike?

[WTFnow!!]

Hey guys, I'll trey to keep this as brief as possible!!

 I've owned my Fazer 600 for about 8 years now, I don't get out on it nearly as much as I'd like, too many other things going on, but I try to keep her in good health.

My bike was running fine, but when I put her away for the winter the year before last, I made the mistake of thinking that WD-40 would be just the thing to keep the rust away over the winter .  The chain went rather rusty and the links went rather tight, so.......

About this time last year I asked a very reputable local bike garage to do a full chain and sprocket set change on my bike.  I bought the full chain, front and rear sprocket set from Wemoto.

A good quality X ring DID chain, Sunstar front sprocket, and I don't know who makes the rear one, possibly Sunstar as well.  When I got the bike back, I immediately noticed that I could hear a noise coming from the drive system.  The best way I can describe the noise is this.  As speed increases, from anything above 25-30 MPH, the noise of an electric train pulling away from a station can be heard, the faster I go, the more the noise increases, if I back off the throttle, the noise dies down, but does not completely go away. 

I did a bit of research, and concluded that the noise must be due to the lack of any sort of transmission vibe absorption on the sunstar front sprocket, and that maybe it just needed running in to sort it out.  I did a few hundred miles on it, but the noise did my head in, and only go very marginally better.  To top it all off, after having done 200 miles on it, I was surprised to find that one day, quite a few miles from home, my rear brake caliper fell off during a ride out and was dragging along the road, whacking into the rear wheel while it was being only connected to the bike by the brake line.  I limped it home and put away for the winter after I got some new bolts to replace the missing ones.

  I can only assume that when the garage fitted the chain and sprocket set, they loosened off the rear caliper to make it easier to fit the rear wheel back in again, and then forgot to re-tighten the two bolts, which must have been hanging by a a thread (or rather threadlock) for some 200 mile before falling out.  I did phone and speak to the Garage thast fitted the parts, but since it took me about 2 months to get round to covering those 200 miles, they basically assumed I was "at it" and were not prepared to help, despite the fact they could have fecking killed me!!

I took the bike for it's MOT a few weks ago and it passed fine, but the noise has not miraculously gone away (no surprises there) so I took it to a mate of mine who has been reparing bikes for many years in the hope he would be able to figure it out.  I left it with him and he has ridden my bike, but he says he's never heard anything like it.  We tried fitting another front sprocket with a vibe suppression ring on it to see if that would help, but it has made no difference what so ever, BUT he has discovered some  rather troubling behaviour.

With the bike on the main stand, rear wheel in the air, if you put it into gear and let the rear wheel turn with the engine just ticking over on idle the rear swing arm chatters for side to side like you would not believe (in a twisting movement) and the whole bike dances around on the main stand    My friend thinks that the issue might be a gearbox problem, but only because he is at a loss to what the cause the problem actually is.  The rear wheel is not in any way buckled, nor is the rear disc, everything runs straight and true. The swing arm vibrations go away apparently if the get the revs up high enough, but the whole swing arm chattering like that on the main stand is really scarey TBH.

Can anyone shed any light on what the hell has happened to my poor bike?  How the hell can changig the chain and sprockets cause such freaky problems????

My thanks in advance to anyone that can help me to sort this out!!

Cheers!!

WTFnow!!

 

[unfazed]

I take it the bike is not in a garage if WD40 did not protect it?

What you describe can be normal if running the bike in gear on the centre stand at tick over since the chain is not under load.

The fazer runs the chain to what appears to many as loose and they over tighten it which can cause the noise you describe.
Reputable dealers can foc up also, and mind you, there a a few reputable dealers I know, that I would not let service a wheelbarow
If the garage you used cannot tighten a few bolts I would doubt their ability to set the chain tension correctly

Put the bike on the centre stand, turn the rear wheel to locate the tightest part of the chain.
 Now push the chain up against rubber swinging arm protector, it should just touch it.
If not the chain is to tight and you need to adjust it
If a tight chain is the cause then readjusting as above should solve the issue

[Grant]

If the chain has been that tight for a couple of hundred miles plus, I would also be concerned about the bearing and the drive shaft that the front sprocket it attached to - would be worth checking if there is excessive play in the shaft now...just a thought.

[bigbluebear]

If its a new front aftermarket sprocket it wont have the damping rubber on it that the original has.....mine was the same and it will get better over time.

[Fazerider]

... With the bike on the main stand, rear wheel in the air, if you put it into gear and let the rear wheel turn with the engine just ticking over on idle the rear swing arm chatters for side to side like you would not believe (in a twisting movement) and the whole bike dances around on the main stand...

From that description it sounds as though the swingarm bearings are shot (or missing), but there's no way it could pass an MOT in that condition if the tester was doing his job.

[kebab19]

If the chain has been that tight for a couple of hundred miles plus, I would also be concerned about the bearing and the drive shaft that the front sprocket it attached to - would be worth checking if there is excessive play in the shaft now...just a thought.

I also suspect your gearbox output bearing might be in trouble if the chain was run way too tight. 
Not sure about the swingarm vibration effect - more bearings on the way out?  I assume the swingarm mounting axle is torqued correctly, as is the wheel spindle?

[Paul]

Have you checked the rear wheel to see if it's running true.


A mate of mine buckled both front and rear wheels on his Fazer, likely due to potholes.


He found someone to straighten them in the end.

[WTFnow!!]

Hey guys, thank you very much for your replies
 
I should add a few things we have looked at so far, without any success. 
Running the chain REALLY slack, no difference. Rear wheel bearings and swing arm bearings feel and sound fine with no play in them.
I can't feel any playing the output shaft bearing, but we also suspect that that bearing may have been damaged in the chain was indeed running to tight.
 
TBH I'm gutted, I put my trusty steed in to a very reputable garage that deal with all major brands to get a simple chain and sprocket set done, and now I think I might have a expensive problem to fix.  I think the "trainee numpty" got my bike to work on, and the work wasn't checked properly afterwards.  I trusted the dealers to do the job right, but I wish now I'd just bought 2 x the big sockets to fit the rear wheel nuts and did the job myself, at least I know it would have been done right.
 
Just to note, the noise is rather annoying and intrusive, it takes al the fun and pleasure out of riding the bike, I actually dreaded taking it out for those 200 miles it have done on it trying to bed the chain in.
 
Has anyone got an old chain they can sell me for cheap?  Just to try another chain and eliminate that from the equation?  I don't have the original chain or sprockets, I never thought I'd need them again, at the time.
 
Thanks again for your help people!!!
WTFnow!!

[darrsi]

You're describing a new chain making a new path on the plastic chain guide, it's literally cutting a new route.
When I got my first DID X ring chain it made what to me was a horrendous whizzing noise, but once a new path has been worn in it will slowly disappear.


Chain jumping about on the centre stand is because there is no weight on the wheel, and the momentum of the wheel builds up speed but the chain won't let it go any faster causing the chain slap.


Both are normal and nothing to worry about.

[WTFnow!!]

@Darrsi, I really hope your right!!  It's not just the chain slapping around though when the rear wheel is running on the main stand, the whole bike dances around, it's really quite alarming to watch.

How many miles did you have to put on your DID chain before it broke in?

Thanks!!

WTFnow!!

[Fraser]

Have you removed the rear wheel to check if the spacer is in between sprocket carrier and wheel , and all the cush drive rubbers are there , also has the rear spindle been torqued correctly ?  just tightening it FT can cause probs, if they forgot to tighten the caliper there is no guarantee that everthing else is ok !!!!!!   at the very least, drop the chain off the wheel and check that the wheel spins freely without any noises, sorry to be an alarmist, I've experienced some real knuckle draggers in the motor trade .

[darrsi]

@Darrsi, I really hope your right!!  It's not just the chain slapping around though when the rear wheel is running on the main stand, the whole bike dances around, it's really quite alarming to watch.

How many miles did you have to put on your DID chain before it broke in?

Thanks!!

WTFnow!!

It was when you said it sounded like an electric chain pulling away that gave it away, I remembered that noise.
Just make sure the chain has plenty of lube on it, but I can't honestly give you mileage or time span.
Once settled it will quiten right down, but next time you move or remove the rear wheel you will no doubt offset it very slightly again and the noise will reappear until another new path is cut.


As I already said the bike jumping up and down when on the centre stand is just the wheel trying to overtake the chain, but it obviously can't so causes all the eye popping commotion. It will look even worse if the chain is too slack.
There's no real reason why you should be doing that anyway, if you want to lube the chain move the wheel by hand and do it, not while it's spinning, it's just an accident waiting to happen!

[darrsi]

Have a read of this......


http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,7713.msg75030.html#msg75030

[unfazed]

The best thing to do is remove the rear wheel and check the bearing properly.
They could be rough and whining, but not necessarily with enough play to properly check especially with the caliper in place.
The bearing which goes first is usually the right one.
If the right one is gone replace the seal also.
Remember there are 3 bearings 2 in the wheel and 1 in the sprocket carrier.
It will also allow you to check the cush drives , if only to be sure they are all there Would not be the first time the 5/8 mechanic would not  put them all back.

[WTFnow!!]

Darrsi and unfazed, thanks again for the ideas and the link to the other thread,  It does seem to be a common problem (the whining) with the heavy duty chains.  I'll pass on your ideas to my mate and I'm sure he'll check all the wheel bearings etc again to be sure. My friend has over 40 years experience working with bikes, he's a very knowledgeable guy and with your help and his, I'm sure we will get this problem sorted out.

  I'm tempted to get a not-so-heavy-duty chain and fit it on there just to see if the noise goes away. I noticed that the links on the DID chain are flat and parallel on each side, but the OEM chain that was on it before had links that were concave on each side, not sure if that really makes any difference though, probably not.

[darrsi]

Darrsi and unfazed, thanks again for the ideas and the link to the other thread,  It does seem to be a common problem (the whining) with the heavy duty chains.  I'll pass on your ideas to my mate and I'm sure he'll check all the wheel bearings etc again to be sure. My friend has over 40 years experience working with bikes, he's a very knowledgeable guy and with your help and his, I'm sure we will get this problem sorted out.

  I'm tempted to get a not-so-heavy-duty chain and fit it on there just to see if the noise goes away. I noticed that the links on the DID chain are flat and parallel on each side, but the OEM chain that was on it before had links that were concave on each side, not sure if that really makes any difference though, probably not.

I'm even more confident now that you've said the replaced chain was the OEM one.
Rather than messing about changing chains, just give it time.

[WTFnow!!]

Hi Darrsi,
 
 Thanks again, but I'm not sure I can actually cope with the noise for any decent length of time.  I have very sensitive hearing at the higher frequency end of the scale, and the noise gets louder and more HF the faster I go, at 60 - 70 MPH I find it very intrusive and uncomfortable on my ears.  I'd rather not ride at all, than ride with that noise.
 
I guess I need to get a cheap chain to try out this idea.  Anybody know if RK chains are any good?  I can get one of those for about £37.00 delivered.  it's a 530, right?
 
Cheers
 
WTFnow!!

[darrsi]

Earplugs are cheaper. 

[crickleymal]

Just what I was going to say

[darrsi]

Or bells attached to your wheels.