Self employed van courier?

[slappy]

Is anyone on here a self employed van courier or has been one?
Reason for asking my son got put on short time by his shitty employers and has been offered a self employed position as van courier with UKmail.
He will lease a van from Hertz and has been given a route in Wetherby and is all set up to start.
He does realise that it won`t be easy at first and he will  be working more hours than he has ever done before but the only other jobs that are available are minimum wage and even they are few and far between.
I have a few questions!!!!!
When should he tell the tax people he is now self employed?
We think his best option is to get an accountant to do his tax/expenses stuff, if he gets one will the accountant inform HMRC that he is self employed?
What can he claim as expenses if he does not use an accountant?
Does he get tax relief or similiar on fuel he uses and the van lease?
Does he need liability insurance for the goods in transit?
Does he need to tell his mortgage lender he is now self employed?


Any help or guidance would be appreciated.

[Razgruff]

I was motorcycle courier years ago which is much the same thing.

Before you start worrying about Tax I would be worrying that you get enough work to cover the cost of the van lease.

what is the minimum amount of work he would have to do to get the monthly lease payment.
I wouldn't go trying myself into a lease contract without a guarantee of work.

Oh and BTW

Self employed is probably UK mail getting out of employer responsibilities to staff, and you may find that he will be working for less for minimum wage during some periods.

Really really go through the contracts, this could end up costing him money instead of him making any if he's not careful

[locksmith]

As a regular recipient of parcels for the last 30 years, delivery drivers don't last too long.

Only the other month my son was in a similar position and I asked a DPD driver for his thoughts. He said tell your son to find something else! Drivers are "self employed" and get treated like shite. He did say to lease a van yourself and not off of the company though.
As said, remember when you lease a van its for the full term and you cant just give it back and stop paying.

[chaz]

you must pay a self employed "stamp" as soon as you start working, this was around £10 a month last time I was self employed, tell the tax office that you are self employed but it might be over a year before you pay any tax (this might have changed?) also to be self employed you must work for more than one company (or be able to do so) this is more so in the building trade as it was a way firms got out of paying their share of N.I. etc.
If you use an accountant the worst thing you can do is take him a bag of reciepts and let him sort it out as he will charge 10 times an hour more than you earn. you can get an accounts ledger from W.H.Smiths but these are a bit general, keep all reciepts for fuel etc, you might be able to claim for other things like meals but I think this might have been stopped?, if you use an accountant he would check your account books and might save you some money??????????
As to taking this on you need to talk to someone who's doing it, a mate told me of someone buying a alloy wheel restoration business, put all his savings into it and never made it pay.  Anyway good luck if he takes it on.

[Grayo]

I was a self employed courier for 10 years and really enjoyed it. (Too many idiots on the road now though tbh.)
Majority of your work will be sub contract work and, as contracts come and go, make sure you're one step ahead by ensuring where your next work is coming from.
I would tell the tax office about your self employment straight away and register for Class 4 NI contributions (about £4 a week).
I was also recommended a company to lease a van from but as this is not a legal part of sub contracting you are free to source your own van and I saved about 40% on what I was recommended. You will, however, have to pay for livery if it is required by UK Mail.
A very good accounts ledger is available at a reasonable price from Staples (this is the one I used and is simple to use) and you simply record all income and expenditure, keep all receipts and hand it to your Accountant at the end of the year who will tell you how much tax you owe. He will definitely save you money and charge you around £150 for his service.
You will also need Public Liability and Goods In Transit Insurance both of which will need to cover you for around £1m. Public Liability I think was around £100 per year but I think Goods In Transit was around £80 per month (I could be wrong though as I gave it up 15 years ago).


I'm sure there are other things that I can't recall at the moment but any other questions just ask and most of all, good luck and enjoy your new venture.

[BBROWN1664]

I haven't heard many good things about UKMail but they are a better bet that City Link

Theoretically you should tell HMRC, the mortgage company and every other feccer about the change of job on day 1. I would suggest an accountant to work out all of the tax loop holes like what he can claim for, minimum wages, director dividends etc as it will be a lot more tax efficient and be cheaper than doing it himself.
As for leasing a van. The jury is out on that. It is a big commitment.

[taylor]

good luck,

[Stupid Luke]

I have vans on distribution work for years but never touched parcel work as the rates as crap. As from talking to lots of ex couriers it seems new guys get the shit routes with lots of distance between drops or lots of unavoidable parking tickets etc. Experienced couriers moving firms get nicer work and good paying jobs early on but then start to get more shit as someone else new joins. In the old days the best way to stay on a profitable route was to backhand somebody and I dont suspect that has changed.


I have never leased new vans either as vans are built down to a budget and designed to start falling apart within 10 years, I generally buy 2-3 yr old, off someone that just has to have a new van, and lease them to my guys for about half the cost of a new van lease.


I dont know about UK mail but I believe most parcel firms will let you use your own van as long as it is plain and unsignwritten. So I would definately recommend he looks for a cheaper van option so that he can pay it even on the quiet weeks and, should he find the work is not to his liking, get out easily.


Remember not all accountants are the same, an accountant that is good for a business turning over 2 million wont be any good for a self employed courier. I would ask around the other couriers and see who they use / recommend and what they pay.


My opinion would be dont touch courier work, but if you have to. Try to do it on the cheap until you have a year or more's experience of what your earnings are ,truthfully, likely to be (take the numbers they give you and half them)


Finally look at City Sprint as an example. The parent company pulls a few million out and lets it go tits up. They write any loss off against tax and some of the directors probably have a few quid tucked away.


All the franchises get knocked and wont get anything back. They are probably fucked over for a few hundred grand each. As are the fuel suppiers, van suppiers, tech suppliers (although some of these will recoup a little by chasing the individual courier drivers)


They in turn knock all the couriers, self employed lads like your son that are now potless over christmas and start the new year by having vans repossessed and still owing on them. At least, if you own your van you only get knocked wages and fuel bill.

[slappy]

Thanks for all the feedback, a lot of what you say has gone through my mind as well!
The van lease can be cancelled with 30 days written notice so that is not too bad if it goes tits up.
As for earnings he has already spoken to two other UKmail van couriers and they have been honest with him and openly admit there are some days where a minimum wage job would pay more.
The route he has been offered is semi rural so less drops and more mileage.
He realises the risks are all his and the "parent company" is shifting all the responsibility to the drivers.
This is a last resort for him in a way, numerous job applications later the only other positions he has been offered have been only part time and zero hours ( the politicians need to get their act together on them and make them illegal!).
I know some people say that self employed courier jobs are similiar to a zero hours contracts but at least he can use the van to do other work to earn money.

[locksmith]

The other side of the coin is that he is getting off his arse and taking a risk. That's the backbone of being self-employed.
Fair play to him and the best of luck

[Punkstig]

For the hours he ends up doing he'll likely be on less than minimum wage.
Why pay an accountant when there's hundreds of free expenses apps out there that can do all the calculations for you, self employed declarations are easily done online, things get a little more time consuming/ complicated if he became vat registered to claim back all his expenses (mainly fuel) tax.
Courier insurance will be ridiculous so get quotes before considering the job, UK mail should have the liability insurance part covered themselves but should be checked with them.

[Stupid Luke]

Courier insurance will be ridiculous so get quotes before considering the job,

This ^. Most companies expect you to provide cover for mobile phones etc which makes your goods in transit insurance astronomical.


We insure as RHA98 (1300 quid per tonne) with a free upgrade to 5000 quid per tonne. If that isnt good enough we say 'No thanks' to the job as higher insurance more than doubles the cost of the premuim.