Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => Fazer 1000/FZ1 corner => Topic started by: robbo on 04 September 2017, 06:54:59 pm
-
I wondered if anyone knew if there's a direct relationship between the height of a jack up kit as opposed to lowering the front through the yokes.For example would a 25mm jack up have the same effect as say dropping the front 5mm. Thanks in advance.
-
It would be useful to know why you are asking the question.
For me the best option is a 25mm jack-up kit and having the yoke down the forks by ~15mm. I currently have a 50mm jack-up kit and having the front dropped at all adversely affects the handling. The 50mm kit and the forks at the OEM position gives roughly the same handling as the 25mm kit and a ~15mm drop. You could possibly infer from that that a 25mm Jack-up kit has a similar effect to having the forks dropped by ~15mm but I feel that's far too simplistic.
-
It would be useful to know why you are asking the question.
For me the best option is a 25mm jack-up kit and having the yoke down the forks by ~15mm. I currently have a 50mm jack-up kit and having the front dropped at all adversely affects the handling. The 50mm kit and the forks at the OEM position gives roughly the same handling as the 25mm kit and a ~15mm drop. You could possibly infer from that that a 25mm Jack-up kit has a similar effect to having the forks dropped by ~15mm but I feel that's far too simplistic.
Any pics on the 50mm dog bones? :eek
I'm actually about to fit 40mm ones. I was concerned 25mm would look too subtle, so added an extra 15mm to be on the safe side. :lol
-
I'm considering doing this too but mainly just because my seat is too low. I can flat foot with both feet and even stand up off the seat slightly. Didn't really think about the handling differences it might make 🤔
-
I'm considering doing this too but mainly just because my seat is too low. I can flat foot with both feet and even stand up off the seat slightly. Didn't really think about the handling differences it might make 🤔
Yes, cosmetics is one reason, plus I'm tall and feel like I'm sitting ONTO a chopper sometimes lol. After putting one leg over and sitting down, feels like my head height has dropped about a foot.
High speed stability is affected apparently, by raising the rear on dogbones (obviously magnified the higher you go)... don't know exactly how that will manifest itself, don't want to be in a situation where it happens either! :eek
-
Having read Falcon's post regarding changing his usds back to right way up forks because of Spanish MOT bureaucracy, I noted that he'd dropped the forks through the yokes by 12mm. I currently run a 25mm jack up, but as I have the GYT-R bar lowering risers, the space between the fork top and underside of the handlebars is a bit limited but not impossible to drop the forks through. Just wondered how "radical" the 25mm lift was in comparison to dropping the front 12mm, and if the 25mm only equated to say only a 5mm fork drop, then 50mm dog bones would be the way to go.
-
Ive gone 25mm at back 12mm at front with adjustable dogs. Great mod turns so much better. You sit with weight forward into tank instead of rocking back when hard on throttle so more stable acceleration. Front stays more planted and turns into a corner much much better. Shakes her head a small bit on hard acceleration but never has got frightening even with the full monty.
Go for it its not something that cant be reversed easily or will cost you a fortune.
You can make dogs out of flat bar with a couple of holes in, you don't need to shape, that's the way I went first time after R6 shock.
http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132112&highlight=dog+bones (http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132112&highlight=dog+bones)
-
Any pics on the 50mm dog bones? :eek
One I took last week, you can see the rear wheel is pretty much on the ground but both stands are still usable though I avoid the side stand where I can, the tail is about waist height (6'3").
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4394/36239112183_aa0588234e_h.jpg)
-
Yes, cosmetics is one reason, plus I'm tall and feel like I'm sitting ONTO a chopper sometimes lol. After putting one leg over and sitting down, feels like my head height has dropped about a foot.
High speed stability is affected apparently, by raising the rear on dogbones (obviously magnified the higher you go)... don't know exactly how that will manifest itself, don't want to be in a situation where it happens either! :eek
I'm 6'3" with an inside leg of 33" with the 50mm Jack up and my Nitron shock on maximum ride height the bike looks and feels the right size for me, I've never experienced high speed stability issues.
-
Having read Falcon's post regarding changing his usds back to right way up forks because of Spanish MOT bureaucracy, I noted that he'd dropped the forks through the yokes by 12mm. I currently run a 25mm jack up, but as I have the GYT-R bar lowering risers, the space between the fork top and underside of the handlebars is a bit limited but not impossible to drop the forks through. Just wondered how "radical" the 25mm lift was in comparison to dropping the front 12mm, and if the 25mm only equated to say only a 5mm fork drop, then 50mm dog bones would be the way to go.
I have the GYT-R risers and Renthal 758's the lack of clearance for dropping the yokes was the main reason I went with the 50mm jack-up kit, the other was I wanted the bike to be taller to fit me better.
-
I have the GYT-R risers and Renthal 758's the lack of clearance for dropping the yokes was the main reason I went with the 50mm jack-up kit, the other was I wanted the bike to be taller to fit me better.
Does that mean you can't rotate the rear wheel for chain lubing. The sidestand wouldn't be an issue as am already using a lengthened one. Yours certainly looks the business and a great location for the pic. too.
-
Does that mean you can't rotate the rear wheel for chain lubing.
I can turn the rear wheel as long as the floor is level otherwise it can catch, bare in mind that I also have the ride height adjuster on my shock set to max height so I don't think it will be an issue.
-
Ok, thanks for your input and advice.Very helpful :thumbup .
-
One I took last week, you can see the rear wheel is pretty much on the ground but both stands are still usable though I avoid the side stand where I can, the tail is about waist height (6'3").
Lovely Harrier! :lol ...the Bike is looking sweet as well. Doesn't look "extreme" on 50mm.
Definitely a Tail up look, but not over the top. Very sporty.
After finishing the 40mm Links last night (no mods on the front forks), the rear wheel is on the ground, with the centre stand down.
Infact the bike 'rolls' back onto the centre stand much easier, with less jolt, as the rear wheel stays in contact with the ground.
Riding the bike today, DOES feel lovely around the corners, no nasty surprises, plus under hard acceleration (as was said above) there's less tendency for you to be rocked back on the seat, as you are angled more forward. Legs feel much more natural too now, with the longer reach with the ground.
-
changing the length of the dog bones also changes the rate of compression of the rear shock. iirc it softens it up if you lengthen them.
so not only do you have to be concerned about ride height, but also spring rate and damping.
dropping the forks just changes the weight distribution and steering qualities.
there's a good reason why firms like k tech, maxton are in business.
-
changing the length of the dog bones also changes the rate of compression of the rear shock. iirc it softens it up if you lengthen them.
so not only do you have to be concerned about ride height, but also spring rate and damping.
dropping the forks just changes the weight distribution and steering qualities.
there's a good reason where y firms like k tech, maxton are in business.
You are correct but maybe not in the way you think. A jack-up kit uses shorter dogbones firming up the rear which is highly beneficial if you are still running the weak OEM shock, if you are running a decent aftermarket shock you can adjust it to compensate if necessary.
-
Any changes to geometry of bike and suspension should be checked and adjusted as PieEater said.
I will be going R1 with K Tech soon which will be 35mm lower at front and will be fitting a Hyperpro rear shock instead of the R6 (which is a great mod) so expect a lot of changes to be made.
I also have Gilles so can adjust my leg position.
Next summer I plan on having suspension set up by a pro, for about £50. I think its worth it.
-
there's a good reason why firms like k tech, maxton are in business.
Theres a good reason companies like Yamaha are in business. Afterall they put the stock shock in there in the first place. They spend hundreds of thousands in R&D and have teams of specialists design and set up a motorbike to work exactly as it should.
Then the average joe whos buys it decides it's not good enough and changes parts out for something they deem to be 'better'
-
I think that all mass produced bikes and cars are built to a price, and in the case of bikes, suspension and sometimes tyres are both areas where money is saved, unless you're buying something a bit up market that comes with eg ohlins. Stock suspension does it's job but is the area that in most cases can be greatly improved with aftermarket units/parts.
-
The manufacturers make the bikes to fit a very large one size fits all market, and to be safe. The bike has to suit people of vastly different weights, height, leg length, arm length etc, and all this has to be done within a certain price bracket to ensure sales and profit.
-
there's a good reason why firms like k tech, maxton are in business.
Theres a good reason companies like Yamaha are in business. Afterall they put the stock shock in there in the first place. They spend hundreds of thousands in R&D and have teams of specialists design and set up a motorbike to work exactly as it should.
Then the average joe whos buys it decides it's not good enough and changes parts out for something they deem to be 'better'
the reason maxton et al are in business are because firms like yamaha get it wrong so often. why else would they sell a fazer with a spring rate set for 10st.
dynojet had a record year in 2006/7 sorting out the fz1 fuelling.
would you like some savlon for those burns
-
there's a good reason why firms like k tech, maxton are in business.
Theres a good reason companies like Yamaha are in business. Afterall they put the stock shock in there in the first place. They spend hundreds of thousands in R&D and have teams of specialists design and set up a motorbike to work exactly as it should.
Then the average joe whos buys it decides it's not good enough and changes parts out for something they deem to be 'better'
the reason maxton et al are in business are because firms like yamaha get it wrong so often. why else would they sell a fazer with a spring rate set for 10st.
dynojet had a record year in 2006/7 sorting out the fz1 fuelling.
would you like some savlon for those burns
Maybe because the vast majority of Yamaha customers around the world aren't all fat bastards like us in the UK haha and while I'll agree that they royally fucked up in 2006 with the Fazer fuelling they sorted it out by 2008 negating the need for dynojet to do anything unless people start messing with the bike again.
Look I'm on your side in all this, my bike is more heavily modified than most but I still stand by the fact that if you left the bike completely stock it would run/ride better than 90% of people could actually ride it. The problems only start when people do 'mods' for the sake of doing mods
A prime example being swapping the exhaust out for something louder/prettier which straight away messes with the fuelling which then leads on to buying a power commander then a remap and changing air filters etc etc.... where as if ya left the pipe alone the bike wouldnt have sounded as cool but would have been running fine
-
I'm considering doing this too but mainly just because my seat is too low. I can flat foot with both feet and even stand up off the seat slightly. Didn't really think about the handling differences it might make 🤔
FFS Dudeo how tall are you? Flat foot both sides and still manage arse off seat.
I'm 5' 9.5" and can almost stand up under the centre stand. :rollin
-
I'm considering doing this too but mainly just because my seat is too low. I can flat foot with both feet and even stand up off the seat slightly. Didn't really think about the handling differences it might make 🤔
FFS Dudeo how tall are you? Flat foot both sides and still manage arse off seat.
I'm 5' 9.5" and can almost stand up under the centre stand. :rollin
Only 6' 2 but quite long legged haha
-
I wrote an app for my phone for bike setup (geometry) that allows you to alter pretty much anything and see the effects visually and with compression graphs on the rear shock etc you can compress the suspension and see the links working... if anyone can be bothered taking the measurements of the fazer it would give you the answers your looking for :)
-
You need to take measurements to describe the base bike
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4381/36666849034_e97a640604_c.jpg)
Then you can make modifications using the modify panel, altering fork lengths, link lengths, swingarm pivot height, link positions etc (the grey bike represents the standard one)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4416/36666849134_bcbaf7ab19_c.jpg)
All works animated live...
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4513/37328077536_24a853a4bb_c.jpg)
-
I don't really understand the "makes the bike fit me " argument, it doesn't change the bar/seat/peg relationship, so its just sitting at a standstill that is different.
I would have thought that doesn't really matter. Am I missing something ?
-
I don't really understand the "makes the bike fit me " argument, it doesn't change the bar/seat/peg relationship, so its just sitting at a standstill that is different.
I would have thought that doesn't really matter. Am I missing something ?
As you say the riding position remains unchanged, but as the seat height is increased the bike looks and feels a better fit for taller riders even if the feel part is most evident at a standstill when you have your feet on the ground. Having said that the main benefit of a jack-up kit remains the improved handling.
-
I know about the handling changes but the feel for a taller rider is a strange one, if your a midget or 8 ft tall jacking the bike will make no difference, you would both feel the same improvement / change of feel.
as far as looks go, if your on it , it makes no difference, only at a stand still will it make a difference and if your tall complete control over your bike cos it seems small is only a good thing.
-
I was thinking of jacking up to increase ground clearance so i could put lower pegs on to give me more leg room without increasing the chances of scraping pegs. I was worried about upsetting the handling or increasing chances of head wobble. If all it does is improve handling then i might reconsider.
-
if your a midget or 8 ft tall jacking the bike will make no difference, you would both feel the same improvement / change of feel.
as far as looks go, if your on it , it makes no difference, only at a stand still will it make a difference and if your tall complete control over your bike cos it seems small is only a good thing.
As a taller / larger person I'm much happier with a taller bike, I look better when I'm sat on it, it fits me better when I'm sat on it, and that makes me feel happier owning and riding it. I recently had an unsolicited comment from a bike mechanic that I'd never met before who said my bike looked spot on for my size when I was stood by it and sat on it, contrast that with being told by my wife that she thought I looked silly sat on my fireblade as I was out of proportion with the bike.
-
if your a midget or 8 ft tall jacking the bike will make no difference, you would both feel the same improvement / change of feel.
as far as looks go, if your on it , it makes no difference, only at a stand still will it make a difference and if your tall complete control over your bike cos it seems small is only a good thing.
As a taller / larger person I'm much happier with a taller bike, I look better when I'm sat on it, it fits me better when I'm sat on it, and that makes me feel happier owning and riding it. I recently had an unsolicited comment from a bike mechanic that I'd never met before who said my bike looked spot on for my size when I was stood by it and sat on it, contrast that with being told by my wife that she thought I looked silly sat on my fireblade as I was out of proportion with the bike.
Yeah but to fair anyone over 5ft 5 looks silly on a fireblade haha or any modern sportsbike really. That's why I prefer older sportbikes. My old thundercat 600 was bigger than a modern litrebike.
-
Actually thinking about it , when I had a big trail bike the feel is different and that's the same thing I spos,
maybe just a higher feel makes things different.
-
I don't really understand the "makes the bike fit me " argument, it doesn't change the bar/seat/peg relationship, so its just sitting at a standstill that is different.
I would have thought that doesn't really matter. Am I missing something ?
With my jacked up Fazer, my head is now above the roofline of cars... caravans... horse boxes too! :lol ;) It's a win win.
I now use an old wooden bread cutting board (nice and solid), placed between the wheels, that I then raise the centre stand onto.
It gives me back those 3 or 4cm clearance, and my back wheel is in the air again. Wheel rotates freely for cleaning chain etc. Only do this for maintenance.
Leaving the Bike on the Side stand does now feel a little risky, as it leans over quite a bit. I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving it on side stand for long periods (overnight or while at work for the day). Obviously lengthening the side stand is the answer to this (as a lot do). The bike does still sit very securely on centre stand.