Battery Dumb-assery!!

[Skinbeatersam]

Hey guys. I hope all is well.


I am basically a dumbass when it comes to my bike. I've been a biker for just a few months, and I am curious about why my Fazer doesn't like being turned on any more. (Oooo-err)


Could this be the battery? The lights turn on, and the starter motor makes a noise, it just sometimes doesn't want to start.


Is it any of these?


1) The battery needs charging, and as a new biker, I don't realise I might have to take out the battery and charge it, cos I am unaware that the bike doesn't do it itself.


2) The battery might be as old as the bike (12 years) and I just need a new one.


3) The started motor is f***ed.


I cannot think of anything else it could be.


I have also read the stuff on batteries in hot poop, and also read the manual, and it doesn't really give me an answer.


Would be nice if someone could give me some advice, so I may not have to go to a garage and give them lots of money . . . .


Cheers!

[Bracechenko]

Does the engine turn over when you try and start it or does it just make a clicking kind of noise?

[Skinbeatersam]

It doesn't click like the fuel pump does when you turn it on.

If turning over means this sound,[size=78%]

Engine Turning Over

[/size][size=78%] [/size]then yes it does that. (Prime example of my dumbassery there)

Sometimes it just takes a lot of throttle twisting and a little swearing to get it fired up. Sometimes it does it straight away, sometimes it doesn't. :-(

[rustyrider]

1) The battery needs charging, and as a new biker, I don't realise I might have to take out the battery and charge it, cos I am unaware that the bike doesn't do it itself.

It does.  The bike has an alternator (generator) that produces electricity to put back into the battery what you take out every time you start it.

1)2) The battery might be as old as the bike (12 years) and I just need a new one.

Maybe, if the starter only turns it over slowly it could be on it's last legs.

1)3) The started motor is f***ed.

Doubtful as it turns the engine over.  If focced they usually don't do anything

If the engine spins over nice and fast, it should start instantly.  If the engine only turns over slowly, then it may struggle to start.  However, with your level of experience, you'd need another bike to compare it with to decide if it's turning over fast or slow.  Once it's started and been run for a while, does it start easier when warm?  Does it sound like it turns over faster after it's been run for a while? 

[Skinbeatersam]

It does start after it has been run for a while normally fine. It is usually a problem in the morning, although I rode it to a local supermarket after it was standing for an hour, after a full day of riding and it really didn't want to start again, and kept cutting out too, which is something it hasn't done before.

[rustyrider]

It's highly unlikely to be the battery then.  Sounds like it's poorly, when was it last serviced?

[Skinbeatersam]

It was serviced a month or two ago. Quite recently.


It needed new air intake pipe bits, it had two replaced, and the other two were on back order. Should be in soon. The other two were on their last legs. Maybe they have deteriorated enough now and are starting to affect the engine.


Balls!! Don't wanna get back in the cage . . . . .

[red98]

do you know what other items were replaced in the service ? was it serviced by yam dealer ?

[Skinbeatersam]

I had the carbs cleaned and balanced, brakes cleaned, new tires, two air intakes replaced, oil change.


Not serviced by Yamaha, no. Far FAR too expensive.

[dolau]

Wouldnt it be handy to have a battery voltmeter or something on the bike- is this simple to do- like connect across the battery permanently?
 
I have fitted a 12v socket across the battery for the satnav etc and often think I should pull out the charging plug when I stop as the sat nav is a biggie and has a double USB plug arrangement to charge it off a laptop so I wonder how much power it is taking- also have the twin headlight conversion and you wonder how close to maximum on the alternator output we are?

[Dead Eye]

When did these symptoms start, did it happen before the service or did it start afterwards? You also mentioned something about the fuel pump not clicking - does it not click at all when you turn the key in the ignition afters its been stood still?

[Skinbeatersam]

Everything is pretty normal on it, such as the fuel pump clicking (it does that) and the cutting out problem happened just after I bought it. There were cracks in the air intakes, so it was sucking in too much air, and running really shit. Two of them have been replaced, and I the other two are on back order, and just being waited for.


It could possibly be this AND the battery too??


Might get a voltometer to check if there are any cheap. Might be handy. . . . . . .


The weird part is, I had it running for about a minute with the choke half out, and it idling at about 2k, The minute I got on it, and stood it up right, it then cut out, despite the choke being half out. Put the choke fully out, and tried to start it again with me on it, and it didn't want to. It did eventually, but that kinda bothered me.


It has done that twice. Bloody weird.

[Dead Eye]

This may be stupid, but water in the fuel tank? Or otherwise contaminated fuel?

My logic is that if there is crap at the bottom of the tank, when its on its side stand its all slightly over to the side and allows more of the clean fuel through. As soon as its upright, the contamination (water is heavier than fuel so sinks to the bottom) prevents clean fuel from getting through.

I could be completely wrong, but its an idea.

[donkey93]

The weird part is, I had it running for about a minute with the choke half out, and it idling at about 2k, The minute I got on it, and stood it up right, it then cut out, despite the choke being half out. Put the choke fully out, and tried to start it again with me on it, and it didn't want to. It did eventually, but that kinda bothered me.

with the choke on my bike drops 500/700 rpm when i take it off the side stand it doesnt always do it but its never cut out

[Major Rant]

The weird part is, I had it running for about a minute with the choke half out, and it idling at about 2k, The minute I got on it, and stood it up right, it then cut out, despite the choke being half out. Put the choke fully out, and tried to start it again with me on it, and it didn't want to. It did eventually, but that kinda bothered me.

These things need VERY LITTLE choke  (Mine only needs it for about 10 seconds and then only on a cold morning). If you keep the choke ON then it will die because the engine floods (mixture much too rich) and it will be a pain to start until all that extra fuel has evaporated.
 
What you describe there is normal behaviour, I think.

[Dead Eye]

That seems to be under-revving a lot - the choke should increase the revs. Intially on mine they drop a bit but a little twist on the throttle gets them up and they stay around 2k with about half choke (maybe a little less) and I think 3.5k on full choke.

When its cold outside, very cold, I need to put it on full choke and then hold the revs up using the throttle a bit. Then they raise a bit by themselves and I can release the throttle (takes like 5 seconds) and they will continue to climb to there normal positions (as stated above) - its just the engine warming up. When the weather is like its been recently (nice and sunny, yay) I dont use the choke at all.

[Skinbeatersam]

They found water in the fuel tank before, only I don't have a clue how it got there. . . . . .


Cos there are cracks in the air intakes (like I said I am waiting for new ones) then maybe it is drawing in moist air into the carbs, turning into steam and then travelling up into the fuel tank and settling there as water. Could that happen?


I have tried using no choke, little choke etc etc etc, and it is temperamental. I don't put it on for long and start to decrease it as soon as I can.


The engine seems to struggle if the choke it too low, or off when starting. The needle won't stay at a steady rev, it'll go up and own.


When I get the new air intakes put in (expensive at £45 each!!) I will get them to check the ring around the petrol tank and replace.


After that, I am gonna be taking a few lessons in motorbike maintenance so I can (confidently) fix the rest myself . . . . .


The revs as you have all stated with the choke seem normal. (3.5k fully out, 2k half out, engine idle 750 when warm)

Hopefully when the new air intakes are fitted, all this bull crap will stop.

[Dead Eye]

If you've had water in the tank before, I'd be very tempted to say that this problem has resurfaced. Its probably a bad seal around the top of the tank as you suggested or the breather pipes could be blocked and backed up - its very easy just to lift the tank to check this (1 bolt, 10mm at the front of tank).