Newbie help with exup please?!

[Tommy250_2]

Hello all!


Having finally got my hands on what I thought was a "mint" gen1 fazer I was gutted to see that paperwork for the last last service said the exup had been removed 


There is no paperwork to say that the bike has been ivanised or had a dyno jet kit fitted. It has original downpours and end can. Only got 9k on the clocks but has a 10 year gap in its device history. Do you think the most likely reason for lack of exup valve is that it seized up while the bike was sat doing nothing ? I can't think of any other reason.


Having said that, I was blown away by the bikes performance (moved up from a 1998 cbr600f), but can't shake the nagging feeling about the exup... [size=78%]Any thoughts or suggestions welcome and much appreciated [/size]

[PieEater]

Hi and welcome. First things first I think it would be best for you to confirm for yourself the status of the exup valve so you know what you are dealing with, perhaps the service paperwork is just stating that the exup valve had been removed in order to service it and it doesn't say that it was put back again. Pat's site is an invaluable resource for Gen1 owners and he has a step by step guide for servicing the valve, if you go through the instructions for disassembly you should be able to identify what if anything has been removed and any potential problems in restoring it to proper function if necessary - http://www.cartestsoftware.com/fz1/exupmaintenance.html

You say that you are happy with the bikes performance, if it is pulling smoothly and evenly all the way through the rev range then the chances are the exup is working, however if it is a little sluggish at the lower end and then the power kicks in there is likely to be an issue with the exup.

I hope this is useful, and you'll let us know what your investigations reveal.

[unfazed]

Welcome,

Pictures pictures we want pictures.

 

[mark g]

I've always read on here that the gen1 is pretty much useless without the EXUP value, won't even ride ????

[Tommy250_2]

Sorry for the lack of photos and thanks for the replies so far. I'll work in trying to get some pics uploaded. I have done a bit more reading up and also had a good look at what is on the bike.
So.... There is a flat, solid plate bolted over where you would normally expect to see the exup cover.  The exup cables have not been removed from the bike. The ends of the exup cables that have been cable tied together and are hanging redundantly the above the plate.


Having done another 80 miles on it today I have got a bit more familiar with how it rides. The top end is still how I imagined it would be; a smooth rush of power, that pulls cleanly from 6rpm. The low pulls smoothly through the revs when pulling away from standstill or accelerating from low rpm, the engine doesn't significantly bog down. However, there is quite a difference between the power available below and above 6rpm.


The main issue im noticing is when holding a steady throttle anywhere between just under 3rpm and up to 4rpm. In this rpm range the bike kind of chugs and sounds like it is coughing slightly. Not enough to cause panic - but it sounds different to the smoothness of the engine when at tick over or at higher revs. At these moments it gives the same sensation as riding a bike with an extremely slack chain - a repeating pulsing motion of being surged forward slightly fraction and then held back while on constant throttle. (Chain and sprockets are fine by the way)


So.....


I suspect the exup has been removed and not replaced. (The bike is 2002 with only 9k miles - probably been sat for long periods during which the exup could have seized up).


If a mechanic removed the valve for modding purposes, would they remove the cables too? Not just the valve itself.


Do these engines that have had a dyno jet kit fitted run this way?  more specifically, do dyno jetted bikes run like **** at low revs but then hit 6rpm and then fly!?


My lack of experience on litre bikes is holding me back here. It still feels beefy and a step up in power compared to the cbr600f, but I know something isn't right. If anyone who can prove insurance and leave there own bike as deposit wants to meet and take it for a spin in Hertfordshire, let me know!

[PieEater]

The problems that you are reporting sound very much due to the removal of the EXUP. When working the valve starts opening around 2000rpm and is fully open around 6000rpm which is the range where you say you are noticing issues. You essentially have an exhaust constantly in the post 6000rpm stage and are missing the benefits of the EXUP at the lower range which is to smooth out the power and increase torque. Your best way forward would be to get the system restored or find a complete racing exhaust which does away with the EXUP but these are getting very hard to find and are not cheap (do not get a cheap set of headers from SandySpares or similar).

Given the negative affects I can see no reason for a mechanic to remove the EXUP unless it needed repairs and this was not financially viable, i.e. why spend £200 when you can sell the bike on to an unsuspecting owner who then has to take the hit?

The main jet kit used is from Ivans Performanc Parts in the US it has nothing but positive impacts on the bikes performance.

[Falcon 269]

I concur.  The surging at part-throttle in the rev range you describe is down to the EXUP valve being removed.  If the previous owner has also tried to rejet in order to cure the problem - or tweak the top end power - that would likely make it worse, not better.

Leaving the EXUP servo in place is necessary to prevent a tacho error code.  Leaving the cables was either laziness or perhaps a sign that the DIY cover plate was intended to be a temporary thing while the owner scouted a replacement EXUP.

[unfazed]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/yamaha-r1-headers-4xv-down-pipes-5jj-exup-pipes-/141781300161?hash=item2102d2f3c1:g:dIoAAOSwVL1WAFPk

Might be worth a look to get what you require to replace the exup

[mark g]

The EXUP is the one thing that I don't like on my bike, so many bikes do without any form of 'power valve' in the exhaust, to my mind it just limits your choice of aftermarket exhaust systems to pretty much zero, and all the shit they can give when they seize up etc, is it really worth it ? I think not.

[unfazed]

The EXUP is the one thing that I don't like on my bike, so many bikes do without any form of 'power valve' in the exhaust, to my mind it just limits your choice of aftermarket exhaust systems to pretty much zero, and all the shit they can give when they seize up etc, is it really worth it ? I think not.

They work fine if serviced regularly, just like the bike itself

[Tommy250_2]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. You've helped me out a lot. I will source a new valve and hopefully it will quickly sort the issues.
And falcon, it seems you are the man to speak to about ivanising. So when I reach that need I may well be getting in touch!
Thank you all again for a warm welcome to the forum.

[Falcon 269]

Any time, Tommy.  If you want more info, drop me a PM with your e-mail address.

[mark g]

The EXUP is the one thing that I don't like on my bike, so many bikes do without any form of 'power valve' in the exhaust, to my mind it just limits your choice of aftermarket exhaust systems to pretty much zero, and all the shit they can give when they seize up etc, is it really worth it ? I think not.

They work fine if serviced regularly, just like the bike itself

That they do buddy but the truth is lots of folk don't service them (doesn't the manual say they don't need servicing??) and when you do have to service them there stands a good chance all the bolts will snap off getting the valve out which is a nightmare, got the tee shirt I'm afraid when I first bought my gen1. I even bought a second hand set of header pipes as spares. Like I said before plenty of bikes out there do without very successfully, Yams own XJR1300 springs to mind

[unfazed]

I know, believe me I know. I was lucky with my own which spent two years out in all weathers in London before I bought it.

Had to replace the lot, valve had bent inside, pulley was a rusted mess, lucky found most bits for sale the states and got complete set of stainless downpipes pipes (early ones were all stainless including the EXUP section)  with everything including exup servo and cables. $250 which was about €200 at the time Plus €50 postage

I did manage to get the original out without breaking anything. Drilled all bolts out without trying to open them with left hand drill bits.
Valve and housing is now a spare as I got a machine shop to straighten it.

[Tommy250_2]

Here you are unfazed! A pic of the plate, ex up cables (I think)  in top right hand corner of pic.

[slappy]

I think I have sorted your problem, little known fact is the exup only works when the bike is the right way up

[unfazed]

On the ball slappy, it closes completely to reduce wheel spin 

However it makes it easier to service the EXUP valve that is if you had an EXUP valve.

Tommy that link I gave you might be a good investment as it has all the bits you need and according to the seller (sellers on Ebay never lie  ) in good working order.

[Tommy250_2]

Right chaps,  So after I turned the bike the right way up    ...


... I purchased some 2001 R1 headers with an exup valve for £60 of eBay (cheers for the idea unfazed). Fitted the valve yesterday and the bike is transformed  . There is a bit of a rattle now from 'down there' but I should be able to sort that by adjusting the cables a little more - I know there are a few threads on rattling exups. The valve looked straight and true when I installed it. The pulley was very corroded on the outside of the valve as were a few of the fixings, but the insides looked good and moved freely. I'll be sticking the R1 headers and the exup cables back on eBay soon  - job done!!


I don't understand how some riders choose to remove the valve and ride without one. Each to their own of course, but the bike is so much better with a working exup. I've put 900 miles on it in the last few weeks and the 30 miles on it today were by far the best.


Thanks again for your help with this. Next stop will be r6 shock upgrade and an Ivan's kit (thanks for the email Mike). But for the mean time with a low mileage (sub 10k) bike , standard (apart from seat and screen) , I'm happy to wait a while for those.


Roll on summer 

[unfazed]

Great to hear it worked out for you Adjusting the cables properly will often stop the rattle.