Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: anutz on 30 March 2015, 09:58:50 pm
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So, i am aware there are threads and articles on Downpipe removal, i have seen some of them...
Removing the header nuts......
Who has actually managed to do this and what did you use...
I have soaked them in WD40 for the past 5 days, 2 to 3 times a day....no luck apart from the outer 2 nuts....
I have ordered some plusgas as it has some good reviews...
I could just use more force but dread wreaking the thread, or snapping something...but they must come off it i am to properly treat the rust building up on the downpipes
Anutz
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i used a socket on mine and had no problems at all.
had 1 that had been snapped off a little previously i tried to remove and snapped it but drilled out.
just soak in plusgas and heat it up till its glowing then let it cool and undo it.
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I found my extension bars and have 4 bolts now loose, 4 others are stuck fast but hopefully plusgas will do the trick - so far i have just used WD40
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wd40 is useless, plusgas is the way forward, try heat if you have a blowtorch
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agree plusgas I sprayed it on every day for two weeks before removing nuts
the tip I was given was nip the nuts up a little before undoing worked for me
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agreed with nipping them up a little first it breaks the seal of rust without jamming it into the thread.
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Got myself some Kroil used on guns and gets its name from two words - Kreeping oil I looked into plusgas and this stuff sounded the best and have been applying to the nuts with a blunt ended syringe to get right behind them when the engine is hot for about the last 3 months, not had a go at removing any yet though.
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OK so plusgas arrived and already i have 2 more nuts off :), rest are soaking
A quesiton however, whats the best way to get off WD40 and Plusgas that has ended up on the frame etc...
A good de-greaer?
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fire?
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don't like that idea...and thats what im trying to avvoid....when i start it up now its all smoking!
Anyway i have a bigger problem now - i snapped my last stud!
So its been a bad day to be honest :'(
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So i am getting some pics now, there is probably 1.5cm of stud have left....so hoping i can unscrew it?
The order a new one on ebay
So much for the nice weather!
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(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_0337_zpsovp7bf5g.jpg)
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This was talked about not so long ago, what you need is a ----- damit I cant remember the name but it has a long shaft before its a nut and I think you drill out the bracket a little to accommodate the nuts shaft.Im sure somone will be along shortly and tell you properly
Edit------- they are called rivet nuts,
Search this forum for "snapped studs" you are not alone
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weld a nut to it and try get it out, if it doesnt come out you may get lucky and snap it flush then just drill it out start at 2mm and go up in .5
can be done with the engine in place.
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Rather than buying a replacement exhaust stud, get some M6 stainless threaded rod and cut that to length. I also prefer stainless dome nuts to the horrible rust-prone nuts Yamaha supply. If you use stainless for both the stud and the nuts, just make sure they're dissimilar grades (e.g. A4 and A2) otherwise they can seize.
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this may be a stupid idea, but here we go...
I have no welding kit...yet...
can i just screw 2 nuts on to the remaining thread and then use the inside one with my wrench to "unscrew" it, a little bit like how there is a lock nut and adjusting nut on the rear wheel axle....or is this a crap idea?
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No, not a crap idea....got to be worth a try, good luck ;)
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yes you can put 2 nuts on it tighten against eachother then try that way.
good luck!
as i said if it snaps flush then its not the end of the world but if you get it out then happy days
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this may be a stupid idea, but here we go...
I have no welding kit...yet...
can i just screw 2 nuts on to the remaining thread and then use the inside one with my wrench to "unscrew" it, a little bit like how there is a lock nut and adjusting nut on the rear wheel axle....or is this a crap idea?
As said before, not a crap or stupid idea, but you do have to make sure both nuts are 'locked' onto each other, otherwise it's a waste of time....
First spray with penetrative oil......and leave a while.
Then put one nut as far down as you can get it, the put on a spring washer, then the other nut on top, screw the 2nd nut as far as you can down the shaft, now keeping that in position with a spanner, use another spanner to tighten the first nut you put on, to tighten onto the washer and other nut, once this is done, gently turn the first nut as you would to loosen it, just use the spanner, as puting a socket on it would mean that both nuts have to align and the washer has to be smaller that the circumference on the nuts, good luck
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This was talked about not so long ago, what you need is a ----- damit I cant remember the name but it has a long shaft before its a nut and I think you drill out the bracket a little to accommodate the nuts shaft.Im sure somone will be along shortly and tell you properly
Edit------- they are called rivet nuts,
Search this forum for "snapped studs" you are not alone
Good memory, Sir. Here's the thread you need http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,12338.msg137697.html#msg137697 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,12338.msg137697.html#msg137697)
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Yeh thats the one !!, if the fella does that then he does not run the risk snapping the stud trying to get it out.
I watch these posts because sooner or later im going to need them on my 98 running OEM exhaust on untouched nuts ( all be it 16k dry only miles since 2001 ) like I said I am already soaking me nuts in preparation for the day
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just ignore people saying the engine needs to come out to drill, it doesnt.
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Yeh thats the one !!, if the fella does that then he does not run the risk snapping the stud trying to get it out.
I watch these posts because sooner or later im going to need them on my 98 running OEM exhaust on untouched nuts ( all be it 16k dry only miles since 2001 ) like I said I am already soaking me nuts in preparation for the day
What's the one fazersharp ?
Mines is original too, 23,000 miles, '98 seen some rain I'm fairly sure, some with me riding it anyhow, and I don't think it's been touched before I got it! Just need to pray it all goes well when we have to do it ;-) I best start getting the penetrative oil into it now :-)
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just ignore people saying the engine needs to come out to drill, it doesnt.
+1
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just ignore people saying the engine needs to come out to drill, it doesnt.
+1
(http://i.imgur.com/MkQgl1d.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vNJhJrd.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/vNJhJrd.jpg)
Geez Paul, are you saving up bikes? There doesn't look like there is any space for spare parts though ;-)
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thanks all for the input - going to try the locked nuts method first, shall update soon...
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If it's snapped off more or less flush with the surface of the clamp my preferred method is nuts like these eBay items 19053881990 or 281390078158. Saves having to do any drilling. Never found any stainless ones tho.
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i think thats whats happened, i have just the "Nut" that snapped off in the socket - and its flush with the clamp - so fair bit left.....
Might take a look at these nuts before i try remove anything - and the rivet nuts seem a good idea
Have you got ebay links, i cannot seem to find those items?
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OK found them.....sleeve nuts.....
They look ok, do you need to drill the clamp holes?
YES
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Regardless of what i do - is this likely to be an MOT issue - assuming i either get them out and replaced or use some magic nuts, if its clamped properly etc...
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As long as the exhaust is not blowing you will be ok.....if whats left of the thread is not damaged the sleve nut is the best /easiest way to go....use this method on my thou last year, will see if I can find the piccies.....oh, yes, you will have to drill the mounting flanges out a little, easy to do as soft like the nuts :rolleyes
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found them.hope they help
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What about using these, similar items mentioned earlier in the thread...
http://www.screwfix.com/p/joint-connector-nuts-m6-x-17mm-pack-of-50/83521 (http://www.screwfix.com/p/joint-connector-nuts-m6-x-17mm-pack-of-50/83521)
Still need to drill the clamps...
In your pictures, you seem to have a screw on stud extender....is that what they are called?
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What's the one fazersharp ?
I was refering the the post before mine, this one
This was talked about not so long ago, what you need is a ----- damit I cant remember the name but it has a long shaft before its a nut and I think you drill out the bracket a little to accommodate the nuts shaft.Im sure somone will be along shortly and tell you properly
Edit------- they are called rivet nuts,
Search this forum for "snapped studs" you are not alone
Good memory, Sir. Here's the thread you need [url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,12338.msg137697.html#msg137697[/url] ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,12338.msg137697.html#msg137697[/url])
This bit
Good memory, Sir. Here's the thread you need http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,12338.msg137697.html#msg137697 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,12338.msg137697.html#msg137697)
So yes they are called rivet nuts and you do have to drill the clamp hole wider to acomadate them, or use sleave nuts or stud extender like has been mentioned. I would not risk getting the stud out, consider the snapped nut a warning
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RED 98
Why did you use that extra spacer between the clamp and the bolt, was your stud extender poking above the clamp and is that extra spacer bigger than the stud extender so it sits over the part sticking above the clamp ?
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What about using these, similar items mentioned earlier in the thread...
[url]http://www.screwfix.com/p/joint-connector-nuts-m6-x-17mm-pack-of-50/83521[/url] ([url]http://www.screwfix.com/p/joint-connector-nuts-m6-x-17mm-pack-of-50/83521[/url])
Still need to drill the clamps...
In your pictures, you seem to have a screw on stud extender....is that what they are called?
made them myself, just a bit of tube that I cut to length and then ran a tap down.....those screwfix connectors might work, they wont be threaded all the way down though..cut the head off and run a tap down, should work and screwfix are open today....will depend on how much broken stud you have left weather you have to open up the flange holes or not, wont br much bigger,2mm at most I would of thought ..
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RED 98
Why did you use that extra spacer between the clamp and the bolt, was your stud extender poking above the clamp and is that extra spacer bigger than the stud extender so it sits over the part sticking above the clamp ?
yes, thats right fazersharp.the break in the stud was more or less inline with the flange.extra spacer just slips over the extension tube...might of been able to trim the extension tube a bit more and done without it but not much broken stud to play with....been on the bike for about a year now and no problems, much easier than boring it out ;)
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I've never heard of rivet nuts till now, and managed to get any stuck bolts out using the method I said before, maybe I've been just lucky? but always keen to learn other ways in case it's needed :-)
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Didn't need to drill the clamp with the nuts I found on eBay. They are a snug fit inside Motad clamps. Original pipes clamps might have smaller diameter holes that need drilled?
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well, i tried to remove it and its sheared off flush with the head...
I don't think i can get to it to drill it properly....
What about taking the head off the engine......
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Be easier to remove front wheel and forks......if you remove the head you'll need a new gasket,£30 when I last bought one.....
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yep i thought of that once i posted - so thats my next job :)....what a nightmare!
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AHHHHHHHH !!!I warned you TWICE :\
So yes they are called rivet nuts and you do have to drill the clamp hole wider to acomadate them, or use sleave nuts or stud extender like has been mentioned. I would not risk getting the stud out, consider the snapped nut a warning
Yeh thats the one !!, if the fella does that then he does not run the risk snapping the stud trying to get it out.
Its just from knowing myself, I have learnt with things like these that I am Frank Spencer and I know that I will beak it.
Sorry fella :'(
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yep i thought of that once i posted - so thats my next job :) ....what a nightmare!
which cylinder is it on?
on mine in the pic above it was #2, looking at it head on its 2nd from the right and i know you can get to both bolts on the middle 2 with a drill just takes a bit of origami with the drill to get it in.
failing that as above remove the forks
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i wish i had listened to you Fazersharp...but i thought "i will be gentle...it will be ok....." it was not...i was not being rough with it, they just are so brittle!
Trying with a stud extractor kit now and then will give up and see about drilling it out completely.....
Paulfzs - its the 2nd cylinder so to the left of middle when sat on the bike.....just not enough room for my drill as wheel etc in the way
Can't stop laughing!
:rollin
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Paulfzs - its the 2nd cylinder so to the left of middle when sat on the bike.....just not enough room for my drill as wheel etc in the way
Can't stop laughing!
:rollin
But surely anutz is a lot easier to remove the front end as apposed to the removal of the engine?
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OK so managed to wangle my way in with without the wheel having to come off, no luck with the stud extractor
SO im stuck now - either i mess around drilling it out and then tap it ( i have never done that, and have no kit i.w. tap and die )
Or i take the head off and take it to a shop to get sorted ( never taken the head off either but i can see disconnecting things might be easier than working on the bike as it is - on its center stand
Any other ideas or advice
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I think you can hire tap and dye sets, maybe from HSS Hire or somewhere like that, maybe worth trying your local yellow pages?
Where abouts are you anutz?
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surely someone on here will have a set you can borrow.
drilling isnt hard tbh, it took me about an hour to drill mine starting at 2mm going up in .5's just be gentle dont snap the drill bit.
taking the head off you need to take the engine out, took me 2 days to get mine out lol theyre a pain!!
then itll be £100000000000 to get it drilled out.
do it yourself in under 2 hours no problem
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i shall get may hands on a tap set, and will set to work drilling and tapping at some point next week....
already have some M6 Stalin less Steel rod and Nuts
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centre punch in the middle of the snapped stuf then start with a tiny 2mm and work up, dont rush it! do not push hard!!! if you snap the drill bit itll be a bugger!
expect it to take an hour so chill.
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thanks Paulfzs...
So its going ok, i have worked up to 5m diameter and 10mm depth...
I have stopped as i need to know
1. How deep do i go, i have no orignal studs to compare to
2. What diameter do i drill to, so i can then tap
I know the tap pitch i use depends on the rods i have, they are M6 from Screwfix but i need to measure the pitch etc
Thanks for your help ( all...)
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_0352_zpsexai2ecx.jpg)
:)
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id say about 10mm depth is fine, i drilled mine till it went all the way through and had no resistance as the stud obviously wasnt all the way to the end of the threaded part.
tapping a 6mm thread into a 5mm hole is fine.
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Thanks
Have done some practice drills and taps on a block i had, went well....so no concerns there, got a kit from screw fix, not the best in the world but good enough and has M6x1.0 and M6x0.75 tap drill bits
http://www.screwfix.com/p/carbon-steel-tap-die-set-51-piece-set/11449 (http://www.screwfix.com/p/carbon-steel-tap-die-set-51-piece-set/11449)
Have almost done getting the head off and out the bike, no way i could get my tapping tools in the space i had, might be possible for some but i decided against it..no matter what i did i could not get access with the tap bit and handles...
I have the week off work, and i knew the carbs potentially had blocked pilot jets so i figure i may as well just go for broke
Just undoing the cam shaft covers....only the one thing i am not sure of is do i need to disconnect ALL the cables in the cable box and move them so i have room, but i suspect once i have the head cover off and cams out i will be ok
Anutz
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Just a thought & I maybe wrong, but if the stud you are drilling out is 6mm would it not be better to tap a 8mm thread into the head,so purchase a 8mm to 6mm exhaust stud of the required length & correct thread pitch.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-exhaust-Stud-8mm-To-6mm-50mm-Long-/130644495868?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1e6b04cdfc (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-exhaust-Stud-8mm-To-6mm-50mm-Long-/130644495868?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1e6b04cdfc)
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i just took the cables out the black box then lifted the whole loom up as high as i could get it and cable tied it to the crossbar when i took my head off for inspection.
i can't help but think youre being a bit ignorant with advice.
youve ignored it a few times now, rather than removing the head i would have got a decent tap set that accepts a ratchet and extension bar like i did.
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OK so - ignoring advice, the reason i wanted to try and get the studs out was that i intend to order a new set of down pipes, and did not fancy having to drill their clamps out - in hind sight it might have been easier.....but its always 20/20
regards getting the extension bar - good idea, but i already have the head off now....and its a lot easier with it on a bench then lying on the floor in a cramped space
i have much less experience than most on here, only had the bike about 3 months.....had no idea how an engine really worked until i started learning a few months back, so for me i am pleased i have taken it off and am making progress :)
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Yep me too....extension of some sort, even if you have to make one yourself ;).........that said.well done for tackling this yourself, alot of people would have given up by now, you can remove the cover without touching the electrics, its tight but doable, are you going to re-grind the valves whilst the heads off ?
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thanks.... :)
will not pretend to know what re-grinding the valves means - but before i re-assemble i shall make sure i have read up on what needs to be considered
i was thinking that if i am just going to put it back together i should not need to do too much else, aside from checking clearances and timing etc...
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I know this is maybe a long shot, but if anyone is closer and who has more experience, would it not be a nice thing to offer to go and help, I've already messaged to offer anutz but he's too far away, I'd need a few nights away to help him, I'm sure anutz would have the kettle always on boil :-)
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You are doing far more than I would dare attempt and the on-going updates of your work on this post are going to be helpful to many others, keep it up and don't forget to keep taking photos as you go and post them here
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You are doing far more than I would dare attempt and the on-going updates of your work on this post are going to be helpful to many others, keep it up and don't forget to keep taking photos as you go and post them here
+1
Just had a look at mine as I was washing it, again!
But anyhow, all the exhaust bolts look like stainless steel and from what I see of the studs that are showing they look the same so hopefully when I need to replace the exhaust as that looks original it should be ok, but not counting my chickens. Did ask myself why someone would just change the bolts/studs???
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Update, so i had the cylinder head of last night, was not that difficult, just needed some methodical steps...i.e. follow the service manual.....
Biggest thing was the prep, which took me all day - but worth it, had to tap the head with a rubber mallet a few times, was concerned i would not have clearance, but had no issues
I plan to put together a full description of what i have done and update the FIRST post at some point, but for now i need to asses what to do with the head and if i can save these exhaust studs, i had 2 to remove, one i did a good job with, the second as you will see when i post i drilled off center....so might just need to get a new head, OR i have seen someone rotate the clamp and drill into the opposite parts of the head...
one thing is for sure, putting it back together will be fun - have to make sure i get nothing wrong, do not fancy having to deal with broken valves/pistons....sure i shall have some more threads relating to any issues i encounter, or should i keep it all in here?
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/Spinal/headout_zpst6wwslnp.jpg)
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Good work anutz....main thing to watch out on re-asembly is that the timing marks are spot on, turn it over by hand a few times checking the marks as you go, dont try starting it unless the marks are spot on ;)
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Am i just gonna piss everyone off now by saying that I went round to a mate's house on Friday afternoon for him to take my pipes off and replaces them, ready for a blast out today (Sunday) and that everything went swimmingly well and had the bike back to me by that evening? Had them off in 20 mins (applied mini cooking blowtorch heat to each nut before it came off(also, engine was still hot from riding it there)) and didn't even need any spray lubricant at all. Bearing in mind my bike's a boxeye '01, with near 60K on the clocks and these were the original downpipes(you could tell by the state of them!) then either my friend is a damned genius at doing this job, or one lucky $%*!?
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Had to take mine off when i got the bike as my mechanic said the down pipes were blowing a bit, and they had TWO sets of gaskets fitted. :rolleyes
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Enjoy the nice weather Beeblebrox2nd....i wish i could have gone out today! :)
Anyway.....at least the head is off and i can now easily either repair the snapped studs, else buy a new head, which is what im tending to think might be best, i am sure i drilled one off center due to me trying the initial steps while the bike was in the frame and access was less than optimal...
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"either my friend is a damned genius at doing this job, or one lucky $%*!?"
Probably both ;-) but it's just jealousy on my and most other people's part lol
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Anyway.....at least the head is off and i can now easily either repair the snapped studs, else buy a new head, which is what im tending to think might be best, i am sure i drilled one off center due to me trying the initial steps while the bike was in the frame and access was less than optimal...
Could you elongate the hole in the clamp to match
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You could just drill and tap the next size up and use a bigger stud and nut. The studs on the fazer are too small anyway. That's one of the reasons they snap so easily. If you're buying a new head make sure it comes with the original cam caps because they're machined specifically to fit that head. Cam caps off another head won't work
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I am going to take the head to an engineers shop local to me - ideas are...
1. Get the holes drilled and tapped with a larger diameter if there is enough tolerance to line up with the exhaust clamps, depends on if i made too much of an error....
2. Rotate the clamps 90 degrees and drill 2 new holes for studs i.e. studs move left at the top and right at the bottom, i have seen some posts on the old site where someone did this and it seemed to work fine
3. buy a new head.....depending on the costs of the above, but i know mine has only done 18,000 miles so would like to save it....if possible....
would it be a good idea to do the timing chain whilst i have the head off?
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1. Engineering shop should be able to sort off centre hole. Depending on how off centre may have to go oversize but could helicoil insert to bring it back to 6mm or use a stepped stud 8mm in head and 6mm for exhaust clamp.
2. Fine if others done it then no problems with drilling into oilway in head.
3. New (used) head could bring new problems you would only find out about after putting it all back together.
Shouldn't need to do cam chain after 18k
If engineers shop reckon hole to bad to retap at 6mm I'd go for helicoil and fit stainless stud/threaded rod
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Thanks Jules-C - that sounds like potentially the next best step - like you say new head could bring new issues...
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OK so i have contacted a local engineering firm and am awaiting a reply - will post some pictures of the current state the 2 snapped studs are in a little later....and hopefully at some point not too far off....the resolution! :lol
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anutz, take the exhaust with you to the engineering firm so they can match up studs to clamps position.
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good point! All this pondering and i would forget something simple like that
cheers
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So, here we are.....left stud seems ok in terms of location....right one i drilled out - no idea why its so "off".....unless its normal, as i cannot see the remains of the old stud as if i had missed lots of it....strange...it might be normal....but i think as well its widened to the right hand side due to the position i had the drill in.....
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/Spinal/STUDSNOW_zpsz6e03mbx.jpg)
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Thanks Jules-C - that sounds like potentially the next best step - like you say new head could bring new issues...
What new issues could a new head bring??
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main one i would think is warping....also with my head, i know the cams and other things are all ok, the head was essentially fine, until i touched the studs... :rolleyes
But lets see what other things people suggest - there will be other reasons i suspect...
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Im sure the off centre one will be fine once you have filled the clamp hole to match so you end up with an elongated hole on the clamp--- once its done up its done up isint it
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main one i would think is warping....also with my head, i know the cams and other things are all ok, the head was essentially fine, until i touched the studs... :rolleyes
But lets see what other things people suggest - there will be other reasons i suspect...
Head you don't know history of could be from bike run dry of oil and cam bearings shot, valve oil seals and guides could give problems. Could've been run dry of coolant and overheated and possibly warped.
Or it could be in perfect condition.
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Update - machine shop tried to repair the stud i drilled off center - blew the side out of the stud hole, so no luck there - unless i want to turn the clamps 90 degrees and get new holes drilled there i do not see what else is left to try - might be time to get a new head and hope it gives me no issues...
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unless i want to turn the clamps 90 degrees and get new holes drilled there
Do that then--- I think someone on here has done it like that
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yep i stumbled across a post a while back where someone did that - will take it back down to the machine shop tomorrow and see what they can do :)
in the mean time, i know we have earlier said cylinder heads when changed on their own can bring bad news, has anyone changed on and been fine?
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Go for the 90 degree swap first got nothing to lose from it.
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Hi,
You can use this product to repair the side of the stud hole:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JB-WELD-WORLDS-FINEST-COLD-WELD-2-X-28-4G-/260825290521?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cba661719 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JB-WELD-WORLDS-FINEST-COLD-WELD-2-X-28-4G-/260825290521?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cba661719)
This is the original and takes 24hrs to cure you can get a fast cure version but i think it is too quick. But there is a new dispenser for the quick weld see here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JB-Kwik-Weld-25ml-Quick-Setting-Steel-Reinforced-Epoxy-/281617629157?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4191b7ffe5 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JB-Kwik-Weld-25ml-Quick-Setting-Steel-Reinforced-Epoxy-/281617629157?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4191b7ffe5)
because it dispenses the correct quantity the time you have to play with the product may be better...
Worth a try i would say, you can tap and drill it as it has metal impregnated in the adhesive...
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Why don't more people you use left hand drill bit, if you drill it off centre the heat is inclined to break the seal and spin it out.
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hmm repairing the busted hole.....sounds interesting, and has been mentioned by a friend, but i am pretty sure the 90 degree rotation and drilling and tapping the holes will be a good result - and its something the machine house will be able to do for me quickly....
Might look to use the stuff you mention to "fill in" the busted area.....then can paint it black....
As for left handed drill bits, i struggle with right handed ones so i will take your word on it unfazed :)
Current state:
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/headdrilled_zpshqcazs0i.jpg)
hopefully tomorrow i shall be able to post a picture with new stud holes in the new locations! :lol
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Is the stud drilled out now? You could bring it to a welder and get the hole ali welded and drill and tap it again. Would be easy with the head off
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stud is well and truly out...
head is at the engine shop now getting new holes drilled and tapped, with the clamp rotated 90 degrees, so should be fine...its as if they were "blanks" made for this purpose
shall update once i have it back...
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stud is well and truly out...
head is at the engine shop now getting new holes drilled and tapped, with the clamp rotated 90 degrees, so should be fine...its as if they were "blanks" made for this purpose
shall update once i have it back...
I thought the same when I first saw them. Maybe it was Yamahas forward thinking for situations like this :lol
Are they going to fill the drilled out hole or weld it???
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what ever it is, i am glad they are there!
not discussed what they will be doing with the drilled out hole, i shall give them a call in the morning and see if they can patch it up some how....
"mobile mouse" suggested this cold weld material earlier...but have not given it much thought yet, just want the new holes sorted :) , the below does look interesting
Hi,
You can use this product to repair the side of the stud hole:
[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JB-WELD-WORLDS-FINEST-COLD-WELD-2-X-28-4G-/260825290521?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cba661719[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JB-WELD-WORLDS-FINEST-COLD-WELD-2-X-28-4G-/260825290521?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cba661719[/url])
This is the original and takes 24hrs to cure you can get a fast cure version but i think it is too quick. But there is a new dispenser for the quick weld see here:
[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JB-Kwik-Weld-25ml-Quick-Setting-Steel-Reinforced-Epoxy-/281617629157?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4191b7ffe5[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JB-Kwik-Weld-25ml-Quick-Setting-Steel-Reinforced-Epoxy-/281617629157?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4191b7ffe5[/url])
because it dispenses the correct quantity the time you have to play with the product may be better...
Worth a try i would say, you can tap and drill it as it has metal impregnated in the adhesive...
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I thought the same when I first saw them. Maybe it was Yamahas forward thinking for situations like this ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])
If that were the case then they would not of made the studs out of biscuit
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I thought the same when I first saw them. Maybe it was Yamahas forward thinking for situations like this ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])
If that were the case then they would not of made the studs out of biscuit
how much are fazer spares worth?
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I thought the same when I first saw them. Maybe it was Yamahas forward thinking for situations like this ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])
If that were the case then they would not of made the studs out of biscuit
Maybe that was the reason :lol
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All,
Still waiting for the head to be looked at, but i am curious..
IF this cannot be save, should i replace the engine or just a new head, i know i have asked this earlier, there IS a risk of the new head being bad, but it could also be good, or could be tested and issues resolved...
Anyone have any experience of doing either, and the issues faced?
I have the air box out as well now and looking at it there is not much more to do if i wanted the engine out
thanks
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I would just replace the head before the whole engine.
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i was thinking the same....and i would make sure it was a full head i.e. Caps, Cams...the lot....then just the gasket would be new.....
The thing was i have been warned off doing just the head from a few friends, they have done a fair bit of work with car engines, not motorcycles...
I know it could be warped, could have valve issues, but if it did not, or they were inspected....what would be the main issues?
Anyone on here replaced just the head and been ok?
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If you swap the entire engine unless you see it running there could be a lot more issues than just swapping the head.
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i was thinking the same....and i would make sure it was a full head i.e. Caps, Cams...the lot....then just the gasket would be new.....
The thing was i have been warned off doing just the head from a few friends, they have done a fair bit of work with car engines, not motorcycles...
I know it could be warped, could have valve issues, but if it did not, or they were inspected....what would be the main issues?
Anyone on here replaced just the head and been ok?
A full engine could have the same problems plus gearbox issues,
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update?
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hi Paulfzs....
So - still on hold, the engine shop did not get to look at it on Friday - Monday/Tuesday they will look at it....so hopefully we shall have some success!!!!
As longs as that all goes well it should be sound, only change is location of the holes on piston 2's down pipe mount, then its just making sure i am careful on re-assembly...
Then i need to patch up the busted hole, but will get it working again first then i can take care of that
Its driving me crazy now :'(
But there is not a part of the bike now i have not seen - and have been checking all the ancillary parts, carbs, fuel pump etc...
Planned to get an old fazer at some point to mess with and understand/take to bits.....but might not need too after this :lol
Anutz
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you can pick up 2nd hand damaged engines for pennys, ive sold 2 for £50 each now.
whilst youre there check valves shims chain the usual jazz.
if you don't know ask on here and check manual, if you still arent sure dont touch it.
i would of thought any fabrication place could drill it out for you, 15 minute job really.
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thanks
i might end up getting a new engine if all else fails...i have seen your thread about changing an engine - did you put an 02 in an 98 frame?
will be super careful with timing and clearances as well.....have a feeler gauge and all the correct moly grease/oil so know what to expect, and won't start it until i am 100% sure
have some shims as well i got off ebay so can make any needed adjustments...
they have taken there time - but its there now so i will just wait for there call - back at work next week so time is short...
One question i have, i took the air-bot out and that involved disconnecting the crank case breather, but also 2 other hoses that connect either side of the air box...
they are simple to re-attach but i just wandered what they were - they form into a T and can be seen clearly here
No mention of them in the service manual....or i do not see it...
pipes here form a T next to the bottom right of the starter...
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/airboxout_zpssfd7p9lr.jpg)
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Both attach to the airbox, bigger one of the two is the crankcase ventilation directing the blow by from the crankcase back into the airbox to be burned part of the emission reduction.
T-piece one is the air box drain with a filter in it. The reason for two pipes on the drain is to allow drainage while on the centre or side stand
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hi unfazed, that bit i know :) , question is where do they go form there and what do they do...
I know what the Crank Case Breather does and it makes sense....just not sure what there 2 do and where they disappear to once the leave the air box and meet at the T..
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hi unfazed, that bit i know :) , question is where do they go form there and what do they do...
I know what the Crank Case Breather does and it makes sense....just not sure what there 2 do and where they disappear to once the leave the air box and meet at the T..
Hit the post button before I finished typing :'(
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i put an 03 engine in a 98 frame, so far ive got an 03 engine, 03 pillion hangers, fazer thou rear caliper im sure theres probably more that ive forgotten.
the engine change is difficult!
im sure once you get em drilled they will be fine.
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All you need now is the 03 Headlight and fairing and you would be sorted :lol :lol
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So those 2 hoses....that form a T, what do they do and where do they go?
I was thinking they must be some sort of ventilation for some other parts of the engine but not sure what, and i did't think they would be breathers....why would an airbox need to breath
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hi unfazed, that bit i know :) , question is where do they go form there and what do they do...
I know what the Crank Case Breather does and it makes sense....just not sure what there 2 do and where they disappear to once the leave the air box and meet at the T..
Both attach to the airbox, bigger one of the two is the crankcase ventilation directing the blow by from the crankcase back into the airbox to be burned off as part of the emission reduction.
T-piece one is the air box drain with a filter in it. The reason for two pipes on the drain is to allow drainage while on the centre or side stand
I corrected my original post after clicking "send" before I finished typing
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All you need now is the 03 Headlight and fairing and you would be sorted :lol :lol
i would if they weren't so expensive!
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Looking GOOD!
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_0033_zpsfqf3tkvq.jpg)
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happy days!!
now get it fitted its hot outside!
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Make sure all the swarf from the drilling is cleaned out of the head before you reassembly it, the picture shows a few bits in the cam seat.
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Hu-focing-rray
Dont forget to give those pipes a coat of paint 1st you want granvile cylinder black
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Hu-focing-ray indeed fazer#
Will make sure the head is spotless - up top and on the mating surfaces
And will also make sure the block mating surface is cleaned up as well...
I think this is where the work really begins :)
Any tips on making the gasket surfaces clean on the head and block?
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current state of head underside - planning to use combination of razor blades and wet n dry to sort out the old gasket material - same on the block
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_0034_zps5xirzomc.jpg)
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Progress...
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_00361_zps9rdwrk40.jpg)
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And the block is coming along - little tricky still in the frame with the head studs in - but its just slow....
ALSO the patterned lines still left on the head and block, should i get ride of them, seems very smooth, at least to the touch
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_00371_zpsfb2lcbqv.jpg)
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_00381_zpsgeuyqahq.jpg)
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Don't try and get rid of the patterned machining marks.
Making a good job of it. Tricky doing the top of the block but just take your time. Much better spending extra hour now than finding problems later because you started to rush.
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thanks!
Yes, i have read somewhere else to leave the marks
the head was easy as its out, the block as you say is a little more tricky, but another hour tonight and they will both be ready for a final wet and dry rub down
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GOOD NEWS ---- for me anyway My nuts are off!!
After years of reading these posts about snapped studs I knew that sooner or later I would need to swap my 17 year old exhaust, although the exhaust is ok for now I have been soaking me nuts in Kroil for 4 months carefully getting behind the clamp with a syringe and a blunt needle, they are all back on now with copper grease and to 10NM except for the top inner one on the gear change side because I need a 150mm extension bar for my torque wrench.
I used a 1/4 inch set mostly but because I didnt have the 1/4 extension bar I had to use the 3/8 and 1/2 inch set but I just think you can too easily put too much pressure on with those sizes when undoing them nuts.
I would recommend you use a 1/4 socket set and you will need a 150mm extension bar for it as that last one - nothing else will fit between the exhaust and the hard rad pipe thingy, although I managed to do it up with a normal ring spanner at about 1/4 or less each turn.
I thought this the best place to tell my story as hopfully along with anutz story of woe it may help people in the future, it dose feel like a weight off my shoulders knowing that they are now ok as I would dread to have to go through what you have anutz. Perhaps it is a relevant detail to add that although the nuts have not been touched in 17 years the bike only has 18k on the clock and the last 14k of them has been in the dry only by me.
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"anutz story of woe"......
soon to be the "anutz story of success!!!!!"
:rollin
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I thought I saw some stuff in screwfix but canot find it now but i think it was like this http://www.ttproducts.com/freeze-off2.html (http://www.ttproducts.com/freeze-off2.html) and this http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-T5WNO400?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA&gclid=CLW46JPDjsUCFagfwwodiYEApw (http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-T5WNO400?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA&gclid=CLW46JPDjsUCFagfwwodiYEApw)
I wonder if they would be of use if you can warm the engine and then get around the back of the clamp to try and spray just the stud so the lubricant in the spray gos through the clamp holes to the back of the nut and at the same time shrinks just the stud
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OK its alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just turned it over and sounds lovely - well i think it does...
Putting a video up now!
Still need to clamp down the exhausts and the downpipes but its running!
Wohooo!
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Video...
https://vimeo.com/126061790 (https://vimeo.com/126061790)
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Video...
https://vimeo.com/126061790 (https://vimeo.com/126061790)
Sounds healthy!
Just a thought... when you run the bike up to temperature then just progressively/gently tighten the exhaust header flange nuts to the recommended torque-its only a low figure 8-10 Nm fro memory but check! A 1/4" socket set with extension to clear pipes/frame is ideal. Dont want to go back to square one again :eek
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Video...
https://vimeo.com/126061790 (https://vimeo.com/126061790)
Sounds healthy!
Just a thought... when you run the bike up to temperature then just progressively/gently tighten the exhaust header flange nuts to the recommended torque-its only a low figure 8-10 Nm fro memory but check! A 1/4" socket set with extension to clear pipes/frame is ideal. Dont want to go back to square one again :eek
Yep see my reply back one page about that, I would also say do the two bolts together - so not just 1 at 10nm then the other as you will see the clamp pivot down to the one just tightened
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I might just leave the all loose and let is scare the neighbours....
shall bit the bullet later tonight or tomorrow depends on time - but it will be a 1/2 a turn on each nut and plenty of patience....I do NOT want a repeat performance...it almost killed me
I did learn a lot :lol
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Get some stainless steel dome nuts and you should never have to worry again. If I ever get another bike the first mod I make will be to replace all the nuts/bolts from one end of exhaust to the other with stainless.
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WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Well done :D now do as above, dome nuts and enjoy the ride!
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running the risk of scowls here, but I just managed to get the old downpipes off with not much stress, and only 24 hours of soaking in wilkos rip off wd40.
Is it worth putting some grease on the gaskets and the studs?
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You can put a little bit of copper grease on the gaskets just to hold them in the ports whilst you align the downpipes into position, apply copper grease to the studs & if using the original nuts after tightening fill the open end with said grease to.
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brill thanks for that, it's on the shopping to list pop and get get now then as only have standard grease!
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Even standard bearing grease will be better than nothing
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Brill, as I had to pop out i got some stainless nylock nuts to fit instead, but still gave the studs a really good brush.
Sounds and looks amazing!
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Just a thought but will the nylon in the nylock nut not melt with the heat
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I hadn't thought of that, bugger.
I'll be looking to change them before long anyway as they were cheap shitty halfrauds nuts to get me on the road. Rounded three off while I was fitting them (luckily managed to get them off).
Will it be much of an issue?
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What you want,as already suggested, is a set of 8 dome headed stainless steel nuts. If by any chance your studs are too long and make contact with the ends/tops of these then simply fit stainless steel plain washers between the exhaust flanges and the nuts. These nuts will prevent ingress of water/dirt and avoid future problems if you need to remove them again. I definitely wouldnt use nylocs in this application due to the extreme temperatures in this area. Dont forget to use light coating of copper grease on studs. :lol
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I'll get some ordered up then =]
Just to confirm the studs are M6 thread aren't they? I just took the nuts out of the pack that fitted (they weren't labelled with sizes!!).
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Yes M6 they is!
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finally got dome nuts on mine now :b
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_0240_zpswlflmqqc.jpg)
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finally got dome nuts on mine now :b
([url]http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_0240_zpswlflmqqc.jpg[/url])
Thought you'd of painted those engine blocks? you've been slacking anutz :rollin
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i know .....shameful :rollin
Its something i was going to ask as part of my new thread.....i intend to paint up the new engine - so will wait and see - its in a mess
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I'll be taking notes on that thread :) as i have with the others :thumbup
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finally got dome nuts on mine now :b
([url]http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_0240_zpswlflmqqc.jpg[/url])
Just what the doctor ordered! :lol
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I'm glad to see this got sorted in the end. My exhaust is blowing so the pipes are going to come off. I wasn't planning to do this myself given that I'm hopeless at such things. I was going to ride the bike to a shop but wasn't sure what to do before hand to make this job less risky.
Everything is original on a 2001 bike but seemed to in good condition and under 6k when I bought it. I've done about 4.5k but it has been in a shed over winter I don't know if it's just a gasket it a new down pipe job.
Would it be better to get someone to come to me and not ride it?
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Hi....
Based on what i did, be careful, i was a bit of a fool and did not use the proper techniques.....but even the on my spare engine with a campingaz torch it was not plain sailing...
If you can get some penetrating fluid and give them a good spray a few times a day for a week or so - i have used plusgas on lots of siezed joints
Some careful heating as well on the studs, till they glow red, can help....this can break seals
Also don't do anythnig when its cold, so much easier to snap!
On my spare engine i have actually managed to remove 5 actual studs, not just nuts but studs....but its a spare so i did not care about the fact 3 were buggered...and its a project to re-build...
If you trust the local mechanics and they know what they are doing it might be the best bet to then enusre you can ride it the rest of summmer.....i am still to get out! :'(
Regards not riding it - not sure, i don't see what it would do if it is blowing a little bit....lets see what any one else says, how far do you have to go?
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It's only a few miles. I wasn't sure if riding after applying plusgas was alright or if the heat would make it go gummy.
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well i would not ride it with anything on the tyres that should not be there - and also anythnig that might get onto them from the frame...
I cleaned my bike well once i had used it, used some degreaser where i could and then inspected the tyres...