Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: sadlonelygit on 12 October 2015, 10:28:20 am
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got a nice green letter through the mail at the weekend alledging 37 in a 30.
thing is i was driving a vehicle with an analogue tacho which for the time in question shows i didn't exceed 50kmh for @5 mins (the time it takes to go through the village).
do i take the offer of a speed awareness course or do i fight it?
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I'd verify the tachograph is accurate before challenging the ticket.
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tacho is recently calibrated and showing correct time, so pretty accurate. the trace goes nowhere near 60kmh after showing a stop for traffic lights.
problem is as we all know, it's a money making racket and they expect us to roll over.
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Are there case's where the offence was successfully challenged by using a taco as evidence
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Two minor things.
Are you sure you are looking at the right time? Tachos normally use GMT I think.
Also, they may have the time wrong and this is considered a minor issue so does not get you out of the offence.
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A successful challenge was reported recently, I think on Visor Down. Dude had an insurance company's black box inn the boot and it showed under 30 in contradiction to a ticket for 40+. When it came to court the prosecution didn't contest the defences evidence. I'd speak to a specialist lawyer.
Andy
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Two minor things.
Are you sure you are looking at the right time? Tachos normally use GMT I think.
Also, they may have the time wrong and this is considered a minor issue so does not get you out of the offence.
digi tachos use UTC, analogue have a self contained 24hr clock.
tacho shows 75-80kmh down to 0 (traffic lights + 30 limit), then sub 50kmh for @5 mins (3km on the trace) then back up to 80kmh
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Ask for the photo evidence?
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Ask for the photo evidence?
Yep, get all the evidence together first, then work it out to see if your right.
You might just have a case here!
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don't ask for evidence.
Ask for the photo so you can identify the driver. Mention evidence and they wont send it.
That said, as you were in a truck, asking for the photo to help identify the driver will drop your company in the crap as they are meant to maintain records of who is driving so unless you were one of two drivers on that truck around that time.........
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The tacho printout will have the drivers name on it anyway.
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I would suggest that you take it to court and present your tacho evidence there.
Better still, tell them you want to go to court but also contact the officer dealing with it and suggest to him that he may want to avoid looking silly in court by looking at your evidence to prove your innocence.
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I would ask for the photo .
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been told this pm that the tacho can only be used as corroberating evidence only, so that's that neatly tied up in a giant fuck you.
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Funny you should mention this as I've just attended a speed awareness course this afternoon. :\ That's 4 hours and 85 quid of my life I'll never get back. However, I'd be lying if I said I didn't get anything out of it, other than avoiding the 3 penalty points. I'm on the database for 3 years now.
I was doing 34 in 30 zone, as far as the law's concerned it's a legitimate ticket issue, if there's any doubt of exceeding 30mph even for a fraction of a second, they have you bang to rights, they don't need to prove guilt, you need to prove innocence.
Get legal advice from a speeding specialist.
You have my sympathies SLG, good luck with this should you wish to fight it.
http://www.which.co.uk/cars/driving/driving-advice/dealing-with-speeding-tickets/how-to-contest-a-speeding-ticket/ (http://www.which.co.uk/cars/driving/driving-advice/dealing-with-speeding-tickets/how-to-contest-a-speeding-ticket/)
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Or just don't speed through 30's. ::)
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Or just don't speed through 30's. : :)
Fair point Stevie, guilty as charged, I'm more than happy to get away with only a 4 hour lecture!
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I can't say nowt, been caught myself, and my son has so far done 15 points for speeding in 30's the little tw@!
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I think if you've been riding 20+ yrs and had a clean licence prior to this point then you owe them a few............... If you know what I mean
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The tacho printout will have the drivers name on it anyway.
C'mon stevierst, pay attention at the back :)
Analogue tachograph means you have to enter your details (or anyone else's for that matter, as that's what you had to do to 'cheat' the system)
Digital tachograph means it takes info from your digital driving card.
For those who are interested, generally after 2006 (and yes I know there's specific dates but I'm not going into that, keeping it simples) any commercial vehicle would need to have a digital tachograph fitted.
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Just read the op. Hands up if you feel stupid! (that'll be just me then :-[ )
I thought analogue tachos were a thing of the past 8 years ago when I stopped driving class 1 trucks. Still a few of them about obviously.
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Just read the op. Hands up if you feel stupid! (that'll be just me then :-[ )
It happens as you get old mate :pokefun
I thought analogue tachos were a thing of the past 8 years ago when I stopped driving class 1 trucks. Still a few of them about obviously.
Yeah there is, it wasn't compulsory to fit them to older trucks but new ones had to be fitted with them.
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got a nice green letter through the mail at the weekend alledging 37 in a 30.
thing is i was driving a vehicle with an analogue tacho which for the time in question shows i didn't exceed 50kmh for @5 mins (the time it takes to go through the village).
do i take the offer of a speed awareness course or do i fight it?
Its your decision. Me weighting the risks and effort will get the speed awareness course anytime.
Because what will happen if you contest it and loose? Not to mention the cost, the time and the hassle involved even if you win. Even if you win you are loosing a lot of time and money in the fight so what exactly is the point here?
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Some insurance companies are now asking about attendance of speed awareness courses and treating them (correctly or otherwise) the same as having got three points.
The thing you have to weigh up is how much will it cost. If you can prove categorically that you were not speeding, I would fight it. Take it to court if required and prove the system wrong.
If however, there is any doubt, take the course as the fine in court will be higher than paying the course fee.
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If however, there is any doubt, take the course as the fine in court will be higher than paying the course fee.
Forget about the fine what about the legal cost? Any going to court has potential legal cost of thousands...
And you need good solicitor to win so even if you win there will be a substantial cost. Can you recover that money if you win? Have no idea... :eek
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If however, there is any doubt, take the course as the fine in court will be higher than paying the course fee.
Don't forget that the lovely Tories have now imposed Magistrates Court Fees (http://www.out-law.com/en/articles/2015/april/those-convicted-of-regulatory-offences-in-england-and-wales-face-additional-criminal-court-fees-from-next-week/) on top of any other fines you may have to pay, supposedly to help cover "the running costs of the court".
This is not, of course, in any way, to induce people to plead guilty and not contest charges because they can't take the risk of the extra money they'd have to fork out if they might be found guilty...
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Do what I did, mel the focin martyr, waltz into the court, look the judge square in the eye and tell him in no uncertain terms how your not happy with the positioning of the camera and that you honestly believe that these contraptions do nothing to promote road safety......I focin told him, and he.......the barstuard.......fined me £600........Focin told me lol
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Do what I did, mel the focin martyr, waltz into the court, look the judge square in the eye and tell him in no uncertain terms how your not happy with the positioning of the camera and that you honestly believe that these contraptions do nothing to promote road safety......I focin told him, and he.......the barstuard.......fined me £600........Focin told me lol
Surely that should of started DONT DO WHAT I DID...?
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Ok I maybe missing the point here but you have almost concrete proof that you were not speeding ! when they say you were
HOW MANY OTHER PEOPLE got tickets the same day and place with the same equipment ?
surley you should ask this question as well ?
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Some insurance companies are now asking about attendance of speed awareness courses and treating them (correctly or otherwise) the same as having got three points.
This one was raised at my speed awareness course on Monday. They where very clear about it, they will not under any circumstances pass on any information to third parties or insurance companies. They didn't say lie, more refuse to answer the question, the insurance companies are being very naughty!
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Definitely ask for the photo so you can identify who was driving given that the vehicle has multiple drivers ..... this will give you the evidence that they have ...... you can then make an informed decision from that point onwards. Also ask for the speed camera calibration certificate as they have been known to be out of date and therefore ineligible as evidence.
In many police force areas across the country, it is an agency that man the speed vans, and as is the same for speed cameras, the data is passed onto a reviewing police officer to decide upon which instances are sent forward for prosecution.
The legal limit for prosecution is speed limit x 1.1+1, ie 34 in a 30mph zone, 45 in a 40mph zone and 67 in a 60mph zone. I believe it is the same for motorways too, but there is a tendency to be a little more lenient and use 80mph otherwise the courts would be completely full.
There are numerous reasons why intended prosecution is withdrawn. Contesting the NIP dictates that the authorities take a second look at the evidence they have compared with your reason & any evidence you have for not pleading guilty. They then make an informed decision on whether to proceed or not. Many cases are dropped simply because the offender contests the NIP and it is a borderline speed - such as yours.
If the authorities decide to proceed, you get your opportunity to present your evidence and reasoning to the judge - you dont need to engage a solicitor but it would be much better to do some homework to identify previous cases where the use of tachographs have proved to be reliable evidence against the accusation. Have your tacho calibration dates and certs available (compare calibration of tacho requirements against calibration of speed camera requirements). Demonstrate your speed on a map showing other speed limits to prove you are basically a speed abiding driver. Details of your driving history may or may not prove beneficial too (depending upon your previous !!), ie 20 yrs without a ticket, miles driven per year etc etc
I am sure more knowledgable others will identify areas for consideration that I have omitted ............ good luck and keep us informed ........
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Smurf - The legal limit for prosecution does not exist. Speeding is an "absolute" type offence. There are ACPO guidelines, but these are only guidelines, which recommend +10% +2mph (so 35mph in a 30, 79 in a 70 etc) to stop filling the courts up and taking up to much plod time with paperwork.
I would probably ask for the photo to help identify the driver if I was certain that I was not speeding to see what the photo actually shows. If it shows you in the truck (its not unknown for the wrong number plate to be written down by the muppets) then go to a motoring lawyer with your evidence that proves innocence and take it to court.