Super nakeds

[FuZzBoM]

Just seen the link to the up coming GSR1000 on MCN
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/mcn/news/newsresults/new-bikes/2014/july/naked-suzuki-gsr1000-incoming/

Got me thinking about the fazer.. the FZ1 is getting a bit long in the tooth now (2006) Needs to be updated. Yes I know they brought out the FZ8 and yeah the MT-09 is a fun sporty naked but this is not a replacement for the FZ1 or the FZS1000 in my eyes...

The general trend in most super nakeds is to take a sports bike motor and re-tune for more useable power.
on that basis I would really welcome a new Fazer with a crossplane crank engine.. I love the sound of the R1 but being the wrong side of 17 stone is not the bike for me. If they did a new Fazer 1000 with the comfort of the Gen1 and the R1 crossplane engine re-tuned to 150-160bhp I would be throwing my money at Yamaha dealers lol.

thoughts?

[Strifae]

I get the impression that simply isn't the direction Yamaha want to go, I think they are looking at fully embracing this triple engine of theirs.

I never bonded that well with the FZ1, hence why I sold it :/

Interested in the new BMW super naked

[bigbluebear]

Being 6'3" I'm about the same size as you and an outright sports bike is just not for me either, they're too cramped for the long legged and big boned.....I have to say that looks good and if they don't take too much away from the re-tuned (not de-tuned) 182 bhp it will be a stonker........I think Yamaha will need to come up with something similar to compete and I like your thinking on the R1 crossplane but keep the bhp higher than 160 and up the torque too.

[FuZzBoM]

Never ridden an FZ1 but have sat on one. Was not the bike for me. It sways more towards a sports bike with the hard small seat. If I lost a few stone maybe I could live with it.

I recently rode a GSR750 on a Suzuki open day at local cafe. Engine was really nice and refined. very nice gearbox but just far to small for my bulky frame. It's a shame because it's the kind of thing I am considering. I dare say the GSR1000 will be much of the same with more grunt?!? Hopefully a slightly bigger bike all round. (not too big)

My fear with the Yamaha triple is that its hard to do anything but look at the street triple and the speed triple as a comparison.
Saying that.. Wasn't there a rumor of the next R1 being a 1050 triple? having that in the fazer or the old inline 4 crossplane would be welcomed. But I guess it would be called the MT-10 or something to fit in with their new naming trend.

[Seabass]

In my opinion I still think the gen 2 FZ1 looks fresh by todays standards. Would it be change for changes sake I wonder?(not that there is anything wrong with change!) If I had the latest high torque high hp supernaked I would most likely not be any faster than on the FZ1. The Yam is effectively far better than my capabilities. Having said all this I do like the look of the new Z, and if money were no object I'd defo have one in my garage! Fingers crossed on the euromillions tonight!

[locksmith]

and yeah the MT-09 is a fun sporty naked but this is not a replacement for the FZ1 or the FZS1000 in my eyes...

Interested why you think that?

I think it's better than a Gen2 FZ1. On the road (not track), it's faster, lighter, more controllable, more economical and more fun.
Whats not to like

[Hedgetrimmer]

Still got my eyes set on the KTM 1290 SDR. Never going to be able to afford a new one, but I'll be looking to see what they go for low mileage second hand in the next year or two. Gotta have them dreams! 

To me, it's just one of those bikes that you've got to at least have a go of. I guess KTM did their marketing well. Plus, so far, all the biking press have been impressed. From Dek's comments and others, the BMW S1000R is perhaps another one. The Jap ones seem to miss the mark for me so far, not sure why; which is a shame, as the reliability/finish might be better on those, and spares/servicing a bit cheaper.

[positron]

The current rush for naked bikes - is it a reflection of bikes becoming more of a good weather toy and less of all-year transport? I can't imagine MT series and other popular bikes like Honda NC700 etc being much fun when temperatures drop. Wouldn't something like the Fazer8S fairing, which is an improvement on FZ1S / FZS1000 / FZS600 fairing, be more ideal and practical without sacrificing any fun?

[noggythenog]

I think you're right Positron...it is said that we all have less and less time for recreation nowadays and for most it is the chance of maybe 1 day a week during the summer pending family commitments....these super nakeds tap into that to give as much fun as possible over a short time.......& looking at tank ranges on modern bikes confirms that as although biking forums will tend to have lots of guys that do mega mileage i think the trend is for guys to be only doing short local blasts of 50-100 miles and calling it a day.




And regards fairings......well i think not having one keeps you closer to the speed limits......when i went fairing free on the 600 i didn't feel that much difference but when the speeds went up i was hanging on a bit.....i got used to it but then my thou came with a fairing and it was positively luxurious...& the way it moves i don't think id want to be without the fairing for comfort......but then there's the added weight of all the gubbings up front and the naked bikes must make you feel a bit more connected to the front wheel and i like that the likes of the MT09 has that aspect where all the dash is out of the way and it is like those driving computer games where you can change the view from looking out the windscreen or  from behind the car......or like being in the front seat of a rollercoaster....much more immersive.




But i'm torn...........bikers are getting older and older....and the older folk get then the more aches and pains they tend to have......so even if they are only doing 100 miles they will still tend to want more comfort than a 20 year old over that distance........so why are they making and selling bikes that are arguably more uncomfortable?.........again i think it is a trend of the moment....older guys have the money and they like quality and the subtle bling......every time i see the latest repsol fireblade it is always some older guy riding it.....or rather drinking coffee and looking at it...& why not...he worked his arse off for 30 years and so wants the best......but will he keep it for long after he ticks that box......i doubt it.........he'll get something more comfortable......but if he doesn't like the adventure bike image of the BMW GS crew then perhaps a newer version of the gen1 thou is perfect for his needs......they are comfy, fast and when they first came out they looked really spot on and classy yet aggressive......yes a bit long in the tooth now but nothing the styling gurus from Yamaha couldnt sort out.

[Hedgetrimmer]

I think you're right Positron...it is said that we all have less and less time for recreation nowadays and for most it is the chance of maybe 1 day a week during the summer pending family commitments....these super nakeds tap into that to give as much fun as possible over a short time.......& looking at tank ranges on modern bikes confirms that as although biking forums will tend to have lots of guys that do mega mileage i think the trend is for guys to be only doing short local blasts of 50-100 miles and calling it a day.

This is all dependant on the age perspective 
I don't think anything has changed in this regard in last 10-20 years. Young folks starting families have less time. But older folks whose kids have flown the nest, perhaps approaching or at retirement have more time and disposable income. The so-called born-agains.

I think maybe people have just started to realise there's more to bikes than just outright performance (    ), I myself started to get bored with seeing so many sports bikes everywhere, and I think the manufacturers have reacted to people with this view - thank God, as we now have much more variety to look at than, say, 10 years ago, and older folks often don't bend to fit so well    These are the folks, as said, with the disposable income, so the manufacturers need to consider their opinions/buying trends. Look how many BMW GSs there are around - comfort, I would guess, is a big factor in their sales success as it's only a small proportion, surely, that actually end up circumnavigating the globe!

But I think you are right in that there are many who only want something for a Sunday blast and not to tour on. But I don't see anything much still to replace the early Fazers, 600 and 1000 gen 1. I don't think the MT-09 is the uber-competent all-rounder that these are (not arguing that it's not a good bike!), and aside from the Z1000SX, I don't know what else that's new fits that gap.

[noggythenog]

Yep i agree Nick.




A little off topic now but i seriously think the MT07 with a bikini fairing is the modern day fzs600....i really want a shot on one......but i have now tasted big power so will the little MT engine be enough........well everyone raves about the old Yamaha TRX as having a useable power for the roads and the MT07 isn't too far from that i don't think except they've made it comfier and less sporty looking.....it still doesn't match the fzs600 or the gen1 thou on fuel range though and it is nice getting 200 miles out of a tank.




So as has been said on previous threads well we are never that far from a petrol station anyway........well i disagree in Wales and Scotland and who knows maybe Ireland is the same but for instance when i left Devils bridge once after filling up at Aber and i decided to go devils bridge to carmarthen through those country roads...a little exploration........i would have run dry on the thou or the MT or allot of these supernakeds.......village after village after village with no petrol stations....all well and good if you know the area well but still a flaw if you only get circa 130 mile out of a tank.......so you can go flat out hooligan for 80 miles and then you start panicking and you're doing 50mph from then on worrying about fuel.

[FuZzBoM]

and yeah the MT-09 is a fun sporty naked but this is not a replacement for the FZ1 or the FZS1000 in my eyes...

Interested why you think that?

I think it's better than a Gen2 FZ1. On the road (not track), it's faster, lighter, more controllable, more economical and more fun.
Whats not to like

Never said I didn't like it.. Quite the opposite I do indeed like it a lot but its not a 'Sports Tourer'. No wind protection, smaller tank and tank range. I personally am very cramped on them. (6'3", 17 stone)
Having had a sit on one I can see my ample frame starting to ache after 50-60 miles. Nothing personal against the MT-09 but It is not a replacement for the Fazer thou, gen1 or gen 2. (in my opinion)
and just for the point of it not enough power to be a 'super naked' like an S1000r or a superduke etc.

[Hedgetrimmer]

and yeah the MT-09 is a fun sporty naked but this is not a replacement for the FZ1 or the FZS1000 in my eyes...

Interested why you think that?

I think it's better than a Gen2 FZ1. On the road (not track), it's faster, lighter, more controllable, more economical and more fun.
Whats not to like

Never said I didn't like it.. Quite the opposite I do indeed like it a lot but its not a 'Sports Tourer'. No wind protection, smaller tank and tank range. I personally am very cramped on them. (6'3", 17 stone)
Having had a sit on one I can see my ample frame starting to ache after 50-60 miles. Nothing personal against the MT-09 but It is not a replacement for the Fazer thou, gen1 or gen 2. (in my opinion)
and just for the point of it not enough power to be a 'super naked' like an S1000r or a superduke etc.

I'm of the same opinion. The problem with the modern bikes is they're not properly equipped for the tourer part of sports-tourer. Start with a comfy seat right out of the crate, including for a pillion. Ok, you can put expensive hard luggage on a lot of them, but what about the ability to use other kinds of luggage that can be strapped/bungeed on? Some bikes used to be made with bungee hook points even, and it's little points of attention to detail like this that make a bike really user friendly. Supernakeds won't cut it as tourers cos of lack of wind protection. Ok, you CAN tour on anything, but a decent bit of fairing/screen makes it a lot more tolerable.

It's all about reaching the right kind of compromise. You'll never have a perfect sports tourer because compromise is what it's all about, but Yamaha came bloody close with the original Fazers.