Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: steeeve66 on 22 May 2013, 01:19:09 pm
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not a counterpoint to the recent, pretty disgraceful, dumb bint who tweeted knocking a cyclist off - but i got ranted at by a cyclist on my trip home out of London yesterday - at Aldgate; the lights were red and I slowly filtered my way to the front - various routes so to speak but finished on the left, between the kerb and the lead car (not a cycle lane), and stopped short of the 'cycle-box' at the front of the line of traffic. Waited half a minute or so until I heard behind me:
"can you move forward mate?" a cyclist had filtered up behind me and wanted in to the cycle-box
"no, sorry" i replied "but i'm not allowed in there" i pointed at the cycle-box.
"you've got mirrors haven't you?"
"yes, why?"
"well, you can see I want to get past, can't you? - i'm supposed to be allowed in to the cycle area"
"allowed? you don't have right of way, the lights are red, i cant move forward and you'll just have to wait like the rest of us"
"but you've got mirrors! why don't you use them??"
"I am, and I can see you behind me - having to wait"
he followed up with a stream of abuse which continued after the lights went green all the way up to my turning right on to the A13.
here's a confession: I cycle. I used to cycle a lot in town when i lived near Waterloo and I don't ever recall hurling abuse at someone for getting to the lights first. He didn't have right of way did he? I didn't cut him up filtering on the left i just got there first - wouldn't he have complained more if i went in to the cycle-box? it's a possible 3 points isn't it??
Is it just me?
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Some people :rolleyes you can't please everyone.
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Reading the stats on the Bbc news pages it would seem cyclists are to blame for more accidents than cars but cars get the blame as the drivers walk away
Analysis of accident data suggested factors involved in crashes can be attributed "fairly equally" to drivers and cyclists
Child cyclists were much more likely to have contributed to accidents, while incidents involving cyclists aged 25 and over were more often put down to the driver
Some 2,801 cyclists were said to have contributed to serious collisions between 2005 and 2007, 43% by failing to look properly and one-fifth by riding out from the pavement
Over the same period, 2,587 drivers were said to have contributed to serious crashes, with 56% failing to look properly and 17% through a poor manoeuvre
An observational study, conducted in London and published in 2007, stated that about 60% of cyclists jumped red lights, as opposed to about 30% of motorists
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That's Laaandan for you :)
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I wouldn't have had any qualms about moving forward into the cycle box in that situation... I see enough van and car drivers who are happy to occupy it and at least the Fazer's tax disc states "bicycle". :lol
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you did the right thing....motorbikes are not allowed in the cycle box.....in a funny way you did hold him up because no doubt he was going to jump the red light :rolleyes
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If it wasn't a cycle lane you were blocking then there's no problem - I'd have done the same as you. Likewise, a car/wagon would have been perfectly entitled to block his entrance to the cycle lane from the left hand side (by stopping close to the kerb), would he have complained then? A cycle box is his area, but he doesn't have right of way (as you've said) getting to it, like we can filter but don't have right of way should our paths be blocked.
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the lights were red and I slowly filtered my way to the front - various routes so to speak but finished on the left, between the kerb and the lead car
That doesn't sound like a good place to be to me. I try to never sit anywhere a car can turn on me. If I filter to the front (always on the right hand side or between cars if there is space, but never between car and kerb) I will generally just about always stop right in front or partially across the lead car. If that means I'm touch over the junction line, or onto a cycle box so be it. I've had to many cars turn on me, and I don't mean just to take a turn some have intentionally tried to run me into oncoming traffic.
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not a counterpoint to the recent, pretty disgraceful, dumb bint who tweeted knocking a cyclist off - but i got ranted at by a cyclist on my trip home out of London yesterday - at Aldgate; the lights were red and I slowly filtered my way to the front - various routes so to speak but finished on the left, between the kerb and the lead car (not a cycle lane), and stopped short of the 'cycle-box' at the front of the line of traffic. Waited half a minute or so until I heard behind me:
"can you move forward mate?" a cyclist had filtered up behind me and wanted in to the cycle-box
"no, sorry" i replied "but i'm not allowed in there" i pointed at the cycle-box.
"you've got mirrors haven't you?"
"yes, why?"
"well, you can see I want to get past, can't you? - i'm supposed to be allowed in to the cycle area"
"allowed? you don't have right of way, the lights are red, i cant move forward and you'll just have to wait like the rest of us"
"but you've got mirrors! why don't you use them??"
"I am, and I can see you behind me - having to wait"
he followed up with a stream of abuse which continued after the lights went green all the way up to my turning right on to the A13.
here's a confession: I cycle. I used to cycle a lot in town when i lived near Waterloo and I don't ever recall hurling abuse at someone for getting to the lights first. He didn't have right of way did he? I didn't cut him up filtering on the left i just got there first - wouldn't he have complained more if i went in to the cycle-box? it's a possible 3 points isn't it??
Is it just me?
On a motorbike, I would have moved to the bloody box. I'm not German and bending rules to make life easier is OK.
On a bicycle I would have hopped on the kerb and moved in front of you... then give you the look ARRR! :)
That doesn't sound like a good place to be to me. I try to never sit anywhere a car can turn on me. If I filter to the front (always on the right hand side or between cars if there is space, but never between car and kerb) I will generally just about always stop right in front or partially across the lead car. If that means I'm touch over the junction line, or onto a cycle box so be it. I've had to many cars turn on me, and I don't mean just to take a turn some have intentionally tried to run me into oncoming traffic.
Many bikers get run over at the lights - so stats say it is not always wise to be in front either. :\ I sometimes take side of the lane, sometimes middle - depending on the situation.
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the lights were red and I slowly filtered my way to the front - various routes so to speak but finished on the left, between the kerb and the lead car
That doesn't sound like a good place to be to me. I try to never sit anywhere a car can turn on me. If I filter to the front (always on the right hand side or between cars if there is space, but never between car and kerb) I will generally just about always stop right in front or partially across the lead car. If that means I'm touch over the junction line, or onto a cycle box so be it. I've had to many cars turn on me, and I don't mean just to take a turn some have intentionally tried to run me into oncoming traffic.
Good point, but that part of London is a bit of a bun-fight at that time of day - plus, as we were behind the cycle box, there's a good few metres before you get to any junction where anyone is turning left. Unlikely the car could turn left on to you.
In any event, my question was about the cyclist shouting at me...
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Unlikely the car could turn left on to you.
There are car drivers that just hate bikers and for that matter cyclists. The car can push you into the kerb. There are some mad Psycho car drivers out here.
Many bikers get run over at the lights - so stats say it is not always wise to be in front either.
Are you sure? Driver intentionally runs into the back of big motorcycle when the lights go green and tries to keep going?
There is a psychological factor to sitting right in front of them or across the front of them, it's like you've closed the door on them. It also means if they go for it, well they can't deny it (sorry I didn't see you on my left side - sorry I didn't see you sitting bang in front of me blocking my view of the road ahead - see what I mean)
But yeah there are psychos out there, then there are the sort of run you over, get out the car repeatedly stab you with the big knife they keep in the door pocket, drag you out the way and drive off sort of psychos too. I'm not sure there is much you can do about the latter, just hope you don't encounter them where ever you are or what ever you are doing.
Anyway if I can't get right to the front and preform a complete block - if you like - I'll find a wee gap somewhere and squeeze over a bit, look round at the driver, make eye contact give em a wee wave. Just a little bit of simple human contact calms the angry psycho cager that lurks in many an otherwise sane ordinary person.
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Cyclist should have kept his/her mouth shut as they should have anticipated your intention to stop at the stop line for all motor vehicles. All other road users do this as its apart of their responsibility and you can not second guess the intension's of road traffic behind you. This is why even cyclist should be made to take a proficiency test as they are usually ignorant to the highway code.
Daz
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Are you sure? Driver intentionally runs into the back of big motorcycle when the lights go green and tries to keep going?
There is a psychological factor to sitting right in front of them or across the front of them, it's like you've closed the door on them. It also means if they go for it, well they can't deny it (sorry I didn't see you on my left side - sorry I didn't see you sitting bang in front of me blocking my view of the road ahead - see what I mean)
But yeah there are psychos out there, then there are the sort of run you over, get out the car repeatedly stab you with the big knife they keep in the door pocket, drag you out the way and drive off sort of psychos too. I'm not sure there is much you can do about the latter, just hope you don't encounter them where ever you are or what ever you are doing.
Anyway if I can't get right to the front and preform a complete block - if you like - I'll find a wee gap somewhere and squeeze over a bit, look round at the driver, make eye contact give em a wee wave. Just a little bit of simple human contact calms the angry psycho cager that lurks in many an otherwise sane ordinary person.
Drivers drop clutch accidentaly, don't notice motorcycle etc. Happens. I got hit from behind in a car twice at traffic lights. Distracted drivers. No bad intetnions (as if that makes a difference :) ).
Human, eye contact is cool, helps, but can be deceiving. I've had situations on a bicycle where people were looking "through" me, while I was sure they noticed me. Then BANG. :)
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Good on you. People are so impatient. They're on a bicycle what real difference in time/safety would it have made to them ? (applies to any vehicle really).
Don't sweat it, forget it and move on. There are much more important things in life than that.
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Good on you. People are so impatient. They're on a bicycle what real difference in time/safety would it have made to them ? (applies to any vehicle really).
Don't sweat it, forget it and move on. There are much more important things in life than that.
Why filter on a motorcycle then? When filtering, most bikers make room for other bikers to filter as well. The OP didn't, he closed the gap with his bike. I don't like when someone does that with a car, but a fellow biker, cyclist? Still, I usually hop the kerb, don't sweat it, don't agrue.
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But he didn't do anything illegal. If he'd moved forward, he'd have broken the law and left himself open to a fine. When we're filtering, we don't expect people to break the law to allow us through, why should we do it for the cyclist?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
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But he didn't do anything illegal. If he'd moved forward, he'd have broken the law and left himself open to a fine. When we're filtering, we don't expect people to break the law to allow us through, why should we do it for the cyclist?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
I agree. In addition you can please all the people all of the time and my personal favourite, nobody is perfect. With hindsight may be the positioning could have been better, it wasn't, we don't have a rewind button to do it all again.
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But he didn't do anything illegal. If he'd moved forward, he'd have broken the law and left himself open to a fine. When we're filtering, we don't expect people to break the law to allow us through, why should we do it for the cyclist?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
Spot on. They are a nightmare round the wee 'B' roads in this area, using them for race practise 4 and 5 abreast and looking at you like its your fault you are on the same road as them.
If they want to use all the road and pavement then charge them a tax of some kind.
Ok thats the fire lit, I'll go take cover now. And I know full well there are as many knobs on motorbikes as well as push bikes. Try meeting them on a lane in a tractor, trailer and front loader. Not nice and only one winner who would need to live with there stupidity for ever.
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here's a confession: I cycle. I used to cycle a lot in town when i lived near Waterloo and I don't ever recall hurling abuse at someone for getting to the lights first. He didn't have right of way did he? I didn't cut him up filtering on the left i just got there first - wouldn't he have complained more if i went in to the cycle-box? it's a possible 3 points isn't it??
Is it just me?
Speaking as a cyclist and a biker, I think the guy was being a prat. You were quite right not to cross the Stop Line into the cycle box, that would have been illegal and yes, he's *allowed* to go into the cycle box, but that doesn't mean he's *entitled* to do it, no matter what.
If he was really concerned, he could have got off, walked the bike along the pavement and got back onto it in the cycle box!
PS (on a point of pedantry :) ) you *both* have "right of way", that's just the right to "pass and re-pass" across a piece of land. What he *didn't* have was "priority" ie you must let him go first.
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But he didn't do anything illegal. If he'd moved forward, he'd have broken the law and left himself open to a fine.
Yup, he obeyed the law and cyclist was a prat for acting the way he did.
If moving in the box is a big deal and you're likely to get fined, than he's 100% cool for doing what he did.
Still hope next time he'll position himself so that other cyclists and bikers can filter as well. :)
In my country filtering is illegal and many cagers will deliberately block you (while many others will make room and move). If you get hit while filtering it's your fault. Still, most bikers filter and it's normal to make room for others behind you to filter, if you see them coming. You don't have to, people usualy don't argue, but most bikers do move and make room.
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Still hope next time he'll position himself so that other cyclists and bikers can filter as well. :)
In my country filtering is illegal and many cagers will deliberately block you (while many others will make room and move). If you get hit while filtering it's your fault. Still, most bikers filter and it's normal to make room for others behind you to filter, if you see them coming. You don't have to, people usualy don't argue, but most bikers do move and make room.
I'll let people past if convenient to me, but I won't go out of my way to get out of their way, if you see what I mean :)
If I stop at the lights and they have to wait behind me then that's their problem. If I got abuse I'd just sit there when it turned green and make him wait even longer :D
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Another point of discussion then. Say you are at some traffic lights, with a red light camera and an ambulance needs to be through. And for the purposes of our discussion you have 2 options only - move through to let the ambulance through and get flashed, or wait for the lights to turn green. What do you do?
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I go in the cycle boxes all the time usually kicking all the cyclists out of the way to get in there, oh hang on, there's never any cyclists in the cycle box because they've all jumped the red light!
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nothing wrong with pedantry - priority, i stand corrected.
I wonder if he (the cyclist) didn't think motorcycles were allowed in to the cycle box and thought i was just being bloody minded?
just a thought - but i agree with Daz that few cyclists appear to know what the law is in relation to road use and that, perhaps, some sort of training ought to be mandatory?
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And insurance and VED and a road riding license if they expect me to take them seriously.
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I've seen coppers pulling over motorbikes who have been avaialing themselves to the bicycle lanes, just recently on London Wall so be warned,,,
On the other hand, if you're riding through London that time of the morning or home time it's bloody difficult to get into the cycle boxes as they're usually full of taxis or other prats who couldn't squeeze through the lights when they turned. Don't get me started about the bloody pedestrians...
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Cyclists...
Ciclista que se cae por un puente (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXOJ-xpXw7I#)
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I've seen coppers pulling over motorbikes who have been avaialing themselves to the bicycle lanes, just recently on London Wall so be warned
i've seen them do it too - mainly Westminster i think.
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Another point of discussion then. Say you are at some traffic lights, with a red light camera and an ambulance needs to be through. And for the purposes of our discussion you have 2 options only - move through to let the ambulance through and get flashed, or wait for the lights to turn green. What do you do?
You wait.
You should only proceed across a red light if instructed to by a Police Officer in uniform (or in a car!). Other emergency services vehicles should turn off their sirens and wait until the lights change.
If you cross the red light (or enter a bus lane or cycle lane during its hours of operation) you can be fined.
http://bluelightaware.org.uk/ (http://bluelightaware.org.uk/)
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nothing wrong with pedantry - priority, i stand corrected.
:)
I wonder if he (the cyclist) didn't think motorcycles were allowed in to the cycle box and thought i was just being bloody minded?
Erm, do you mean "did think motorcycles were allowed in the cycle box"?
i agree with Daz that few cyclists appear to know what the law is in relation to road use and that, perhaps, some sort of training ought to be mandatory?
Whilst I can see the point, the fact is that requiring cyclists to get training (let alone testing, licenses, registration or insurance) would put people off using bicycles.
And, of course, if cyclists do stupid things, in the vast majority of cases it's only themselves they're putting at risk.
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Another point of discussion then. Say you are at some traffic lights, with a red light camera and an ambulance needs to be through. And for the purposes of our discussion you have 2 options only - move through to let the ambulance through and get flashed, or wait for the lights to turn green. What do you do?
You wait.
You should only proceed across a red light if instructed to by a Police Officer in uniform (or in a car!). Other emergency services vehicles should turn off their sirens and wait until the lights change.
If you cross the red light (or enter a bus lane or cycle lane during its hours of operation) you can be fined.
[url]http://bluelightaware.org.uk/[/url] ([url]http://bluelightaware.org.uk/[/url])
That was my thoughts, and that's what I told my wife last night. But when discussing it at work I was met with "you'd let someone die?" - my answer was "I didn't make the rules of the road, so, why should I pick up a fine and points because of that?"
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Yes, they should turn their siren off, and normally do, personally I always pull forward and to one side providing space, regardless of what the law says I'll do my upmost best to help blue lights through- red light camera sensors don't detect bikes (in my numerous experiences anyway!) and if it was caught on CCTV and they sent me a letter through the post I would happily go to court even knowing that 'legally' I was wrong, do you really think you'd get charged for helping emergency services?
In the past I've even shot up the road when I've seen a choke point to stop a dump truck, giving an ambulance a clear run, but that's just my support riding coming through!
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do you really think you'd get charged for helping emergency services?
Yes
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the only thing the OP did wrong was not putting his sidestand down, get off the bike and plant the cyclist.
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Good wee link there grahamm
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i had the same situation with a fire engine, i was in bath city centre at a set of traffic lights on red, with a fire engine behind me, lights and siren going if i had moved flash of camera bang points and fine, i felt a right knob, as for your cycle you cant move m8t, :o
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do you really think you'd get charged for helping emergency services?
Unfortunately, according to the letter of the law, yes, you would.
Having done some searching on this, sometimes fines are waived, other times they aren't. Also I've found this from TFL's website:
When can I enter a bus lane?
During non operational times. The times of operation are indicated on the sign
If you want to turn left within 20 metres of the junction - an arrow or a dotted white line will indicate if this is allowed
If avoiding road works or emergency vehicles
So, at the moment, the law is, frankly, a complete mess...!
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yes I would have got done, have spoken to a copper about it, :'(
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i had the same situation with a fire engine, i was in bath city centre at a set of traffic lights on red, with a fire engine behind me, lights and siren going if i had moved flash of camera bang points and fine, i felt a right knob, as for your cycle you cant move m8t, :o
ooo are you a fazer owner living in Bath?
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no skippernick me in south wales, but used to do a run through the west country 3 times a week for ten year,s if my memory is right there is a fore street in trow,b, used to be a baxters butchers, nice place.