Any clever Foccers out there?

[SteveCardiff]

Need some pointers here.


My daughters Fazer, 02 plate, less than 9,000 miles from new, last used properly on our Spain tour in August 2011, been sat in the garage since.


Getting it prepped for our tour in 8 weeks time so gave it a full service, changed all fluids, fresh petrol,  fresh tyres, took it for mot and noticed it's misfiring. Gotta be the carbs gummed up was my first thought, so without investigating anything else, whipped out the carbs and stripped em. They were absolutely spotless, no signs of gumming up anywhere. Had all the jets out etc and blew em through with compressed air just to be sure.


Reasembled and she's still misfiring. Wet hand on the downpipes reveals No 2 is not firing. Although the plugs have been in for 3 years they've done less than 3k so they should be fine (no guarantee though)


So, swapped plug 1 with plug 2. No2 still not firing. Drained the bowls on 1 and 2 = same amount of fuel from each so fuel getting in.


Swapped plug leads over on cylinders 2&3, No 2 still not firing.


Next step is to buy a compression tester.....


...unless you guys can suggest anything else to try.


Cheers.

[bigsteve]

Hi
  just a thought does the bike have original down pipes ??? if so check there isnt a leak or hole in No2 down pipe near the head
 
    had similar problem on other halfs 600 box eye  which stopped when I had down pipe welded 
 like you stripped carbs thinking it was carb problem and swapped plugs
 
  It was the Guy who MOT'd bike noticed a slight blow on exhaust
 
 
 
 

[mtread]

If the bike was working fine before it was laid up, can't think it is anything mechanical - compression, exhaust etc.
What about the other basic spark, air and fuel tests ?
You've swapped plugs and leads, but does the number 2 lead spark to earth ? Does the plug spark against the cylinder ?
Fuel. It may be in the float bowl, but is it getting into the cylinder ? Plug wet, smell of petrol ?
Sorry if suggesting things you've already done, but as always said, eliminate the obvious/cheap first before moving on to the complicated/expensive !

[Exupnut]

Coils ?

[His Dudeness]

Well you don't know if 2 is sparking right? So try taking the plug out and examine whether it's wet or dry. Then carefully ground it against the engine and hit the starter and see if you've got spark. Be careful you don't shock yourself or light the fuel outside the chamber.

[SteveCardiff]

Cheers guys.
 
bigsteve, downpipes are fine mate, nothing blowing or holed/loose etc.
 
mtread, exupnut, and dudeness - Just to clarify, all I did with the leads was swapped number 2 and 3 at the plugs. I didn't swap the leads at the coil end. So in other words I put the leads on the 'wrong' plugs, but it doesn't matter cos they both fire at the same time anyway. So, that rules out the coil, leads, and plug caps.
 
mtread, fuel in the bowl doesn't mean it's getting through as you say. Gonna take the rear carb rubber off number 2 and squirt some fuel in there if I can. Might even see if I can remove the air filter and get fuel to number 2 that way. May be the easier option??
 
I'll let you know the outcome.
 

[unfazed]

If cylinder 3 is firing that really rules out the coil as cylinders 2 & 3 fire from the same coil and swapping the leads from 2 & 3 more or less rules out the plug caps. Check to see if they are tight on the leads anyhow.

Lift the tank and swap the wires on coils for 2&3 with the wires on coils 1&4 and then swap plug leads 1 with 2 and 3 with 4
If 2 still does not fire then the problem is to do with that cylinder or the number 2 carburettor

When you drained the fuel from the carburettor did you let it run with the pump feeding it as it could be a sticking float or float needle.
Put a clear plastic pipe onto the drain plug holes of carburettor 1 and 2 to compare them, run it up the side of the carburettor and tape them in place, petrol should level around the top of the float bowl with the ignition on the the kill switch set to on/run. If it goes above this it is sticking open and below, it sticking closed.
Start the engine and see what happens.

If all this appears ok you could have a stuck ring. Unlikely but possible if where it was stored was prone to dampness.

Do a check on the filter and path to 2nd carburettor

[Paul]

I reckon it's either getting no fuel or too much fuel.

I laid up a fazer for some years.

I experienced two problems, both were with the carbs.
1) Pilot jets and/or fine drillings were gummed up.
2) Float needle not closing off properly, therefore too much fuel getting to the cylinder.

I've also experienced a plug failure when a bike was laid up, exactly why this should occur is unknown, but it's happened twice.

[His Dudeness]

I reckon it's either getting no fuel or too much fuel.

I laid up a fazer for some years.

I experienced two problems, both were with the carbs.
1) Pilot jets and/or fine drillings were gummed up.
2) Float needle not closing off properly, therefore too much fuel getting to the cylinder.

I've also experienced a plug failure when a bike was laid up, exactly why this should occur is unknown, but it's happened twice.

you're probably right but that made me laugh    

[slimwilly]

I have not seen your answer to the first check =  is there a spark on the plug when hung on the lead touching the engine,,(out of the cylinder) ?


If there is , then check the wet plug idea,,,with a very cold engine.

[SteveCardiff]

I have not seen your answer to the first check =  is there a spark on the plug when hung on the lead touching the engine,,(out of the cylinder) ?


If there is , then check the wet plug idea,,,with a very cold engine.

Didn't do that test exactly but my answer to that is yes, there is a spark. Proven by putting lead 2 onto plug 3. Cylinder 2 still not playing.

[slimwilly]

I have not seen your answer to the first check =  is there a spark on the plug when hung on the lead touching the engine,,(out of the cylinder) ?


If there is , then check the wet plug idea,,,with a very cold engine.

Didn't do that test exactly but my answer to that is yes, there is a spark. Proven by putting lead 2 onto plug 3. Cylinder 2 still not playing.

not being thick,,but how does that work?

[SteveCardiff]

Because the bike has two coils. One coil fires 1&4, and the other fires 2&3. It's called a wasted spark system, and what happens is that when cylinder 1 gets a spark, cylinder 4 does too, but on the exhaust stroke. Same goes for 2&3, hence the wasted spark.


So, if you swap the plug caps from 1 to 4, and 2 to 3 it won't make any difference to the running of the bike. However, if you've got a bad lead or cap etc this is a good way of trying to pinpoint the problem


In my case when I swapped 2&3 I half expected 3 to stop firing because it was using the lead and cap from number 2. Instead number 2 stopped firing hence ruling out the lead and cap

[unfazed]

If you are satisfied that the coils leads and plugs are OK, go back to my suggestion on checking the carbs and filter air path.

The only common parts to one cylinder is Carburettor, Valves or piston rings and the air path.

Was the bike stored in the open under a cover or in a dry garage?

[His Dudeness]

you still don't know if it's sparking or if it's wet or dry

[robin78842]

I see last post was in June.


But looking at carbs on the bench from air box side, the piston pin slides though a collar that you can just see sticking out of the bottom of the aperture.


Where the air box rubbers fit onto the carbs there are two holes at the bottom.  The smaller hole has a jet in it. (flat screwdriver)

[keratos]

wild speculative suggestion ...

plug not earthing so no spark.?? thinking it has been stood for a long time, thin layer of dust or corrosion ??I had a similar problem on a XV750 stood for 12 months in a garage. bought one of those colourtunes with a mirror on top to see if the fuel mixture was yellow or blue - fact was it wasnt anything because it wasnt firing. after a air filter and flow check, fuel check, carb check, timing check, HT circuit check , it ended up being a clean of the cylinder top around where the plug earths. voila