close enough?

[Ian-man]

Some years ago it used to be a case of sticking to all red circle speed signs but in national limit areas the term 'making progress' was used where higher speeds were allowed as long as it was still done safely.

[noggythenog]

Some years ago it used to be a case of sticking to all red circle speed signs but in national limit areas the term 'making progress' was used where higher speeds were allowed as long as it was still done safely.

Why is that Ian....honest question..not being a smart arse or whatever just curious really........dya reckon it's because if you dont then you end up stuck amongst all the raging loonies of this world....much like trying to stick to 60 on a motorway.........is it better to get the foc outta there maybe.......especially when those loonies arent exactly abiding to any rules..........like the ISIS of the road world that they are

[joebloggs]

I didn't expect a race but 60 isn't a realistic road speed on a bike. I say leave the legal riding to ROSPA

[Grahamm]

I didn't expect a race but 60 isn't a realistic road speed on a bike.

No, it's not...

... In a 30 or 40 limit!

As has been mentioned, the IAM cannot be seen to condone someone breaking the law, HOWEVER, whenever we go out on a Group Ride, for instance, all riders are told that they are deemed to be in control of their bikes at all times and riding decisions are theirs and theirs alone. They are also responsible for safety and complying with the law at all times.

So once you understand what Advanced Riding is about, what you actually do is up to you, it's your choice.

[Val]

So once you understand what Advanced Riding is about, what you actually do is up to you, it's your choice.

I am sure there are plenty of billiant IAM riders. But with all my respect IAM Roadcraft book is full with some sheer nonsense. Anybody that follows the recomended bend line for "advanced riding style" below risks to be run over by the first Porsche that cuts that bend.

I personally prefer to follow the black line which I have drawn obviously professionally 

Means I take a glance ahead and than turn the first left bend tightly away from the center line...



I am sure we learn all our life and training is always good think, but I prefer as you have said to choose myself how to do that...

[dazza]

Interesting stuff,  I have often wondered how it would have panned out if I had followed the IAM's line with my near miss with the tipper lorry.
Don't get me wrong, sometimes I do and sometimes I don't, all depends on the type of road and what my gut is telling me..

On my mobile and can't put a link up to the video, but if I were further out in the road I think I would have struggled to get over in time and would have probably opted to bail out to my right.

[stevierst]

Interesting thread!

I drive rather fast for a living, often at twice the speed limit!
 If I hadn't done the advanced course with regular refresher and Re-assessments I have no doubt I'd have been in a serious if not fatal smash by now!
For those of you that haven't done an advanced driving/riding course, well I'd suggest you put down the books, stop reading other peoples nonsense, stow away your own views and have a go at it.
It's not all about sticking to the rigid system, or 'you must use this line on a bend', these are just tools and skills that are offered to you to use.
And in reality, it's not a 'driving course', it's really an 'observation course' with some road usage tactic thrown in for you to consider. Don't get too hung up on the discipline of it all.

My instructor nailed it for me when I completed the course and he said "I've always driven fast cars, but I'd never driven cars fast until I did the advanced"

[fazersharp]

So I had a look at the IAM web site and to me it just reads like a money making club for people who want to think they are better than everyone else, (sorry but that's just how it reads to me) sure there must be some safety aspects there but it all comes with a request for your credit card number, surly as a charity the costs could be lower
And quotes like this just put me off
 "Togetherness & Sharing"
"The IAM promotes knowledge sharing, openness and direct, simple relationships among employees to empower teams and foster co-operation." It all sounds a bit "PC"
Then you've got badges annual membership. masters program, group conference, their club is better than someone else's club, local groups. Maybe its just me but apart from this forum when it comes to me and my bike I am a bit of a loner and ride my own ride and all that social stuff on the IAMs website puts me off.
And every time I get quotes for the car and the bike I check if it would lower the cost and it doesn't.

Those police rideouts sound more up my street
     

[joebloggs]

I think younger riders would probably get more from advanced riding course's and tbh if my nephew starts to ride when he's a little older I'll pay for him to go on a course, this isn't to say I want him to be an advanced rider but I would like him to stay in one piece while he develops his skills.

I wouldn't take any form of instruction now, spent 25 years riding 365 days a year, through all weather for both my daily commute and for pleasure, and I've only been off about 3 times since I was 21, thats not bad considering I couldn't stay on before that lol. I'm not suggesting I know it all but I do feel I know whats best for me.

I think everyone would agree that when you've developed as a rider you can make 100 feel like 60 (KMH ahem) and sit there all day long  modulating your speed when approaching junctions, traffic etc. Great example for me was when I was on holiday down south, this lass had never been on a bike and asked a group of us if one of us would take her for a ride, I didn't know the lads but most had sports bikes and I believed they would have taken her out and scared her (why do people do this) I jumped up quickly and off we went. kept it around the limit for a few miles before asking her if she wanted to go a little quicker and gradually built it up from there. By the time we got back we were well over 100 (KMH of course) through turns etc etc Not once did that girl grip me or panic. We got back and she just stepped off, shaking with excitement, smiled and said thankyou.

That for me, is advanced riding.....

[fazersharp]

Not once did that girl grip me .

You idiot !! missed your chance there 

[joebloggs]

Not once did that girl grip me .

You idiot !! missed your chance there 

Yeah, and you would have as well.......

[Grahamm]

But with all my respect IAM Roadcraft book is full with some sheer nonsense. Anybody that follows the recomended bend line for "advanced riding style" below risks to be run over by the first Porsche that cuts that bend.

Well, yes, if they haven't read and understood the bit about IPSGA in Roadcraft where it says "Each element of IPSGA should not be applied slavishly, but always be considered".

Or, as it says on the page where that picture comes from "Position yourself for the best view only when it is genuinely advantageous."

As for your suggested line, what if there's a broken down car on the inside of the bend just around the corner? Could you stop in the distance you can see is clear? If you anchor up, you're going to go straight on, but what if there's traffic on the other side of the road?

Taking the "vision line" gives you more time to react before you reach the hazard.

I am sure we learn all our life and training is always good think, but I prefer as you have said to choose myself how to do that...

And that's entirely your right. But does that mean that you consider you have *nothing* left to learn...?

[Grahamm]

Interesting stuff,  I have often wondered how it would have panned out if I had followed the IAM's line with my near miss with the tipper lorry.

As I commented on that post, you should have been able to stop in the distance that you could see was clear. Perhaps I should have added that, on a single carriageway road. you need to *double* that distance because you're sharing your stopping distance with that of the on-coming vehicle, so you have to allow space for them to come to a halt too.

[joebloggs]

Interesting stuff,  I have often wondered how it would have panned out if I had followed the IAM's line with my near miss with the tipper lorry.

As I commented on that post, you should have been able to stop in the distance that you could see was clear. Perhaps I should have added that, on a single carriageway road. you need to *double* that distance because you're sharing your stopping distance with that of the on-coming vehicle, so you have to allow space for them to come to a halt too.

I think we all need to stay in front of the television with a nice hot cup of tea as this motorcycling lark sounds a little dangerous.........

[dazza]

Exactly Joe,  I think you can over think some things. It's always good to have a plan but there are so many variables when riding a bike and some driver's can do some unpredictable things, even road surfaces can throw your best plans out the window.
Take that corner I met that tipper lorry, the middle of the road was covered with loose gravel so I wouldn't have stood a chance trying to swerve and brake hard on that.
On one of the restricted byways I ride there is a low gate that we hop over on the bike.  If I approach this and react to it when I get there,  I seem to nail it every time. The last time I did it I over thought when to compress my front forks and forgot to pull my clutch in resulting in a stall as my back wheel locked up on the gate and.....well, it seemed a long way down to fall with my back wheel so high and my legs so short. 

This is what I got for over thinking shit

[joebloggs]

I had a car hit me and all the medic's said having no time to react probably saved me from more serious injury. Basically had I time to brace myself I could have hit the vehicle instead of being thrown over the top. Missing it would have been better but no chance of avoiding him