Sick bike

[PaulSmith]

Can anyone who has had a problem with their timeing chain tell me what the symptoms were please? Is there is a diagnostic test that will confirm (or eliminate) it as a problem?

[Hedgetrimmer]

Hi Paul
 
I'm probably not going to be the one that helps here ( ), but I think if you posted up what symptoms/problems your bike is actually experiencing others will have a better chance of helping.
 
Good luck 

[PaulSmith]

After getting me to the South of France without missing a beat, and then resting up for a couple of days, my bike wouldn't start. It turned over fine, but wouldn't catch and bump starting didn't work either. I had breakdown cover with the AA as part of my Carol Nash insurance policy the arranged a local engineer who collected it and took it to his shop. He passed it on to a Yamaha dealer who told the insurance company that it should be repatriated rather then fixed there. The bike is an '04 gen 1 and would have passed 50,000 miles somewhere on the return journey.

The message I got from the insurance company was seriously garbled and the only bit that made any sense was 'timing belt'. (Yes, I do know it is a chain not a belt). Hence my question, if is was the timing, and the chain had stretched past the ability of the auto-tensioner, what would the symptoms be, and is there any test that could confirm it or rule it out?

My concern at the moment is that I am financially strained. If the timing belt needs changing, it will cost at least a grand to replace, possibly quite a bit more, and it may not be the end of my troubles. I can buy a similar Fazer (at much lower milage) for about €3,500 but it would be struggle. How much should I spend trying to fix this bike (remembering that money is no longer available to buy its replacement) and at what point do I say, "this bike is not worth fixing"?
   

[red98]

strange.....if the chain was seriously worn it would have made a rattling noise well before giving up,which you would have noticed before going away...if its jumped a tooth on the sprocket it is possible that it wont start,if its jumped more than one tooth there is risk that piston has hit a valve or two,if the chains broken the engine will turn over a lot quicker than usual....if i were you i would start by taking the rocker cover off and see if the chains still in one piece and check for tension by trying to pull it off the sprockets,if all appears to be ok do a compression test,this will tell you if you have a bent valve  .....good luck and dont forget to tell us the outcome 

[hotmetal]

Well, I'm not the expert either, but I think if you actually do have an issue with your timing chain, you would first hear rattling, then more engine vibration than normal. Once it slips a tooth that can result in the valves dropping and hitting the pistons. If that happens you would lose a lot of power and shortly afterwards the engine will die and never start again. You may also get backfires. It happened to my car (which had a belt snap). Chains don't snap generally (less often than belts anyway) but if the tensioner fails then the chain can easily jump and wreck your top end.


Seems worrying that the mechanics in country didn't want to get involved, so maybe it really is the timing chain.


There is a thread on here not very long ago where someone had a cam chain tensioner fail twice. He'd be in a good place to tell you the exact symptoms on a Fazer.


With my bike (2004, 32,000 miles), I had a problem where I rode down to the Nürburgring and back with no problem, parked the bike up for a couple of weeks, and when I came to start it, the engine wouldn't fire and was turning over so fast I thought it was that the starter clutch had failed (see recent thread). Bump starting wouldn't work either. Turned out it was turning the engine over (I could feel gases at the exhaust) but it had lost compression due to the oil draining out of the bores and the rings getting stuck in a 'loose' position. Thank goodness this turned out to be the case, and was fixable.


The only reason I mention this is because the cause (long ride on old-ish engine followed by a lay-up) and the symptoms (lack of compression, not starting) could be confused with a timing chain issue at first glance.

[Falcon 269]

I'd stop fretting about cam chain. 

The cam chain on the Fazer isn't prone to stretching beyond its service limits, so it's unlikely to have got slack and jumped a tooth without you noticing some rattle noise beforehand.

Because of the design of the tensioner, if it fails, it's a "hello, valves, say 'hi' to the pistons" type of event.  I think you'd find that hard to miss.

May be pure coincidence, but what Hotmetal experienced seems to fit your symptoms.  Where is the bike right now?  Who is running diagnostics on it?  The insurance company responsible for the repatriation clearly don't have a scooby, so get to the man who does and ask him.

[pilgrim]

 
Its not your cam chain going west and bending valves because you wouldn't even be able to attempt to bump due to engine lock from bent valves.
I speak from painful experience. Twice 
If it is a major engine malfunction that's gonna cost mega bucks, you could  always do what I did and get replacement to swap in. I picked up an 03 with 16k on it for 500 quid and swapped it over in a weekend. Not a job for the faint hearted but not quite as bad as you would think if you are half way spanner handy, or have mate who is. TBH the trickiest bits are getting the Exup cables routed in the right place, and getting the sodding carbs back in. Full respect to the man above who does that a lot!   

[unfazed]

If it is turning over cleanly and there was no engine noise when you stopped it and now not firing it is unlikely to be mechanical.
It is unlikely you have the problem Hotmetal refers to as it was not idle for long enough.
The fact it is turnng over on the starter rules out many of the switches being at fault.
Onlt a few things will allow it turn over without starting.
No Fuel, Tip over switch faulty (Emergency Stop Switch) Pick up coil faulty, CDI unit faulty and maybe faulty Speedo sensor.
The most common one is out of fuel.
If there is fuel then I would suggest, lift the tank and prop it up with a piece of wood. Disconnect all the block connectors in the black shoud and check all  for corrosion of the contacts in the block. The corosion is usually blue in colour, but could be black. If they are not shiny then there is some form of dirt or corrosion
Disconnect then and spray them with WD40 (don't spare it) and reconnect and disconnect them a few times. Contact cleaner will also work but it does not leave the oily film like WD40 which helps prevent corrosion.
Lets hope it is this simple.
 

[PaulSmith]

Thanks for the all the responses, I am feeling a bit more optimistic now then I was yesterday.

The bike should be turning up in my local bike shop tomorrow (if the AA haven't lost it) so they can start doing proper diagnostics. fingers crossed.