Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers

[Robbus]

Just bunged another 10mm in per your suggestion and cranked the preload in so only 1 line is showing. I'm treking over the 62 tonight so I'll see how I get on, still got the zip ties on the forks.


Cheers,
Rob

[69oldskool]

Shamed into finally starting project.
 
  & it's all gone a bit Pete Tong!
Pearls of wisdom greatfully received at this point.
 
4L of 15 grade fork oil procurred y'day~ that's all they had in town in desired viscosity.Doh!
 
Now i had said i was just bunging them in without drilling anything but i decided if the damper rods came out easy i'd drill, & if i didn't i'd go with original plan.
 
Damper rods freed up easy,old oil was still looking fresh,so far so good.
 
Now got 4 8mm holes in  each damper rods, erring on side of caution as easier to make a hole bigger than it is to make it smaller at later date.
 
Now's about when it went pear shaped.
 
Factory manual states 200mm spacer length & 323mm spring length~ thats for 98 model.
My measurements, 183mm spacer & 316mm spring.
Nows the really odd bit, bunged damper rods back in,prior to reassembly proper & i've only got 100mm travel!!!!
Took apart a few times, consulted parts diag, not lost anything, not assembled wrong as far as i know(after 3rd time of trying)
 
Maybe modified by P.O. but what's changed i can't fathom.
 
Anyway i'm gona go with the 100mm travel or now, not much to play with so what measures do i take to avoid bottoming?
The gold valves add about 13mm height, thought i'd shorten the spacers by about 8mm to give me a little more preload to play with.
Maybe run the oil level a bit high also?
 
At this point i'm wishing i hadn't started, but only cos it seems i've got modded forks (or messed up bigtime somewhere)
 
Anyone got any ideas?
 
 
 
 

[wezdavo]

Your measurements are spot on for 2000 onward fazer... 183mm spacer, 316.8mm spring, so I would'nt worry.
 
How do you know you only have 100mm travel? I mean how did you measure this? If your trying with the main springs out you wont get a reliable reading as the top out springs need to be compressed also, whish is what happens when the main springs and end caps go on..
 
To confirm put a zip tie on the stanchion right above the dust cover and go for a hard ride, then lift the front end off the floor and re-measure to check how much travel is being used..

[69oldskool]

Cheers M8,
               If only i'd asked sooner!
 
Yes, measuring travel without springs in, guess it all makes sense now, panic over.....nearly.
 
Got one stanchion jammed due to the multiple dismantling.
I've had to snap the oil seal out to work out what was (well & truly) jammed.
 
I now know what jams & why~,now freed up, just got to work out how i'm gona get the bush & oil seal back in without a suitable driver.

[kebab19]

Wez is right,
There is a difference in component length between original 1998/99 forks and later 2000-2003 years.

The main question is: Did you have to put pressure down on the inner spacer to force the fork caps down & screw them back on? If you did, and you've checked component order 3 times, then I'd say you've reassembled it right 

If you haven't modified them, run the bike on it's original spacer length but with minimal or near minimal preload - it will be firmer than it was. You could raise oil height but again, Wez is right, best to stick a cable tie round the fork & take her out for a quick spin. Don't go too mad (or too far) if you're worried about bottoming out, return to base & start measuring travel. Then report back

[69oldskool]

Yes Kebab,
              I had to push down on fork cap to install,03 bike, guess that's one done.
Gona sleep on the fork seal/bush replacement,luckily off work this week.

[Dead Eye]

I now know what jams & why~,now freed up, just got to work out how i'm gona get the bush & oil seal back in without a suitable driver.

You can make your own driver for the cost of about £3-5

Get some PVC waste pipe about the same size as the fork leg and some jubilee clips. Cut two lengths of the PVC pipe and then cut them length ways on one side. Put one over the the fork inner (stanchion) towards the bottom (but leave some travel), then the other over the first piece (best to have the slits on opposite sides to each other). Ensure that he outer piece of pipe is slightly lower (5-10mm) than the inner one and then use the jubilee clip to clamp them to the fork inner. You can now use this as a driver for the seals

If my explanation is a load of crap then check out the video (skip to 15:50) created by Delboy's Garage as he explains it and shows you want to do I just used jubilee clips instead of the thing that he uses

��

[69oldskool]

Neat! thanks deadeye.

[69oldskool]

Thanks to the input of FOCU'rs now got two completed fork legs   Cheers!
 
Still to affix back on bike, hopefully tomorrow & then a( most likely wet) test ride & give some initial impressions & current settings details.
 

[Robbus]

Thanks to the input of FOCU'rs now got two completed fork legs   Cheers!
 
Still to affix back on bike, hopefully tomorrow & then a( most likely wet) test ride & give some initial impressions & current settings details.

When you get them back on, could you let me know what the distance is between the seals on the bottom of the yoke please (front wheel of the deck)? Trying to figure out if I've lost some travel as I've only got 120mm between seal and yoke on my Foxeye 


Cheers,
Rob

[69oldskool]

I'll get back to you later on that Robbus~bikes still on my m8's drive~ sounds wrong though.I had bout 100mm from yoke marks to top of chip guard off bike.
 
If it makes you any happier i've now got a non working speedo, lugs have snapped on rotor, a mystery as fine when took off & missing when i came to put back. Just wondering if JB weld will fix.
 
Anyway initial results. I'd just like to point out i'm no gp rider.
 
settings: valve preload 2.5 turns,
 spacers shortened by 8mm, (actually i found it easier to make some new ones up out of 1/8" wall ali tube, so this will affect air chamber vol)
oil 15w jmc brand~ never heard of it, must be el cheapo.
oil level 130mm
Damper rods 4x 8mm holes per rod.
Springs~fairly sure they're standard.
Preload adjusters backed right off, expecting to dial in a little once a few miles clocked up.
I weigh 72kg,least last time i looked.
 
Didn't go very far as it's mighty damp in Lincs today!
Deliberately aimed at all manhole covers~something i normally avoid even in the dry.
I didn't even know i was going over them without looking
Roundabout felt good,maybe better? as in the dry before mod.
 
Forks feel firmer, yet less jarry & defo less bouncy.
 
Perfect? probably not~ a few tweaks @ a later date, not zip tied yet~ a more scientific approach for next ride
 
Bottom line, Very impressed, best £40 i spent on the bike!!, even factoring in £ a new speedo rotor,& a few, ahem  difficulties along the way.
 
So thanks very much to Jeff for organising it all & the others that helped get me(eventually) to the end.

[69oldskool]

Robbus, wheel on deck (c/stand) but no weight on wheel as such i've got 145mm bottom of yolk to top of oil seal.
 
I'm Still wondering if foxeye's only got 100mm travel?~ the damper rods are shorter, so top of rod sits lower in stanchion, so less travel before bottoms out, no? Or have i missed something.

[Robbus]

Thanks mate, that's a similar figure to the one Jeff gave me for his boxeye so I guess there's something up with my install despite everything fitting back together apparently right, d'oh!


Ah well, should have a new set of springs to fit this weekend so will have a chance to muck around with things again and see if I can find my lost inch!


Cheers,
Rob

[wezdavo]

Robbus, wheel on deck (c/stand) but no weight on wheel as such i've got 145mm bottom of yolk to top of oil seal.
 
I'm Still wondering if foxeye's only got 100mm travel?~ the damper rods are shorter, so top of rod sits lower in stanchion, so less travel before bottoms out, no? Or have i missed something.

120mm of travel mate..

Front suspension:

Front fork travel                                      120 mm

Fork spring free length                            316.8 mm

Fitting length                                           309.8 mm
 

Collar length                                           183 mm

Spring Rate (K1)                                     7.35 N/mm (0.75 kg/mm)

(K2)                                                         13.72 N/mm (1.4 kg/mm)

Stroke (K1)                                              0 70 mm

(K2)                                                         70 120 mm

Oil capacity                                             465 cm3     

 Oil level                                                   132mm               

Oil grade                                                 Fork oil 10W or equivalent 

 

 

  [/font]

 

[kebab19]

Hi Oldskool,
Pity about the speedo drive, but the updated version you'll get is much more durable.

Regarding standard springs....
Although I'd really hoped that people would get decent improvements from the emulators & oil only, there's a growing amount of evidence that replacement springs are also needed to get the very best out of this type of conversion.
There are springs from other bikes that will fit FZS600 forks, and as I encouraged everyone to get the emus I feel somewhat compelled to point out to everyone who bought the emulators alternative cheap-ish springs that should improve their front-end even more. 
So if you also need aftermarket springs I'll try & track down a set for you?

Also, regarding fine-tuning, by all means continue to adjust your setup - it's rare to get things bang on 1st go



@ Robbus - very strange to lose travel, but it's got to be in there somewhere!
Also, my older bike has the longer damper rods as shown in guide pics, and the springs and preload spacers are also different lengths from the 2000 onwards models,  but even so, they still have 120mm travel....no idea what's going on but we'll get you sorted eventually

[69oldskool]

Here's the little sucker that causes forks to jam if bottomed~ 'spindle taper' shown mainly to identify Robbus' mystery spring.
Locates in a groove in plastic body, i'm guessing it's there to stop jammed forks,seemed to rebound damper rod slightly experimenting while had fork in bits.
If so it's not very good at it! As Robbus said, it's a bit thin & weedy.
 
@ Kebab,I for one am pleased with results with standard springs, won't be due an upgrade spring set just yet thanks.
 
@ Wezdavo, yes even my owners manual states 120mm travel, i followed your logic regarding the top out springs but... i'm trying to get my head round how with shorter damper rods i still get the same travel as a boxeye.?
If i could post a drawing i would, but i can't. The two methods of lowering forks i know of are shorter damper rods or spacers under the topout springs~ both would lose you suspension travel.
 

[69oldskool]

couple more pics

[69oldskool]

...

[Andy FZS]

I do like to see a tidy bench : or in my case no matter how much I tidy it my eldest son seems to see it as a challenge to pile crap on it:-\
Andy

[Robbus]

Here's the little sucker that causes forks to jam if bottomed~ 'spindle taper' shown mainly to identify Robbus' mystery spring.
Locates in a groove in plastic body, i'm guessing it's there to stop jammed forks,seemed to rebound damper rod slightly experimenting while had fork in bits.
If so it's not very good at it! As Robbus said, it's a bit thin & weedy.

Hmmm, didn't see any bits of plastic like that, bizzare! The spring I had was small and only went around the thin end of the damper rod where it's bolted back to the fork tube, I can't see how that would achieve anything as it's not in contact with anything else 


Cheers,
Rob

[69oldskool]

Robbus, you wouldn't unless you take the stanchion out the leg lower like i had to, this piece is right at the bottom of the leg lower.
Just thought you should know where the weedy spring comes from.

[kebab19]

Not sure what purpose that plastic thingy has  When I took my old pitted TRX850 forks apart recently, something similar fell out!

Oh, for anyone who has emus but standard fork springs:
If you are ....big boned, or do fast road riding, there's a set of linear Racetech 0.95 springs currently on Ebay - item 261309747303
 
Yes, they are admittedly originally for a Honda Hornet 600, but it also has 41mm diameter forks, shares a very similar amount of fork travel and weighs within about 10kg of our own bikes.  So, in other words - they would be a VERY GOOD spring upgrade option  to go with your emulators

[Robbus]

I fitted a set of Hyperpro progressive springs today that Jeff spotted on fleabay, they're Hornet springs too and as you can see slightly longer than the Fazer springs at 335mm.

Details

I cut my spacers to 150mm, no idea what my air gap is now, it was at 120mm but I lost some oil in the swap process. Anyway I had a good ride around the crap B roads, starting with a high preload and working down by checking the zip ties now and again. Ended up with 6 lines visible (6th being level with the top of the cap) and a nice plush ride so I'm very happy.


I thought I'd check things out while I had the springs out and try and measure the total travel. So with a jack under the headers and the front of the ground I pulled up the front wheel until I felt the bike lifting off the jack.

Details

Roughly 90mm of travel doing that (bottom of zip to top of seal). Dunno if that proves anything in terms of difference between boxeye and foxeye. I also noticed some scratches on the stanchions just above the zip tie which suggests to me that the seals don't go above there.

Details

Cheers,
Rob

[wezdavo]

Thanks to the input of FOCU'rs now got two completed fork legs   Cheers!
 
Still to affix back on bike, hopefully tomorrow & then a( most likely wet) test ride & give some initial impressions & current settings details.

When you get them back on, could you let me know what the distance is between the seals on the bottom of the yoke please (front wheel of the deck)? Trying to figure out if I've lost some travel as I've only got 120mm between seal and yoke on my Foxeye 


Cheers,
Rob

With my bike on the side stand I have 150mm between bottom yoke and seal...

[Robbus]

That magically resolved itself, move along now, nothing to see here