Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: b1k3rdude on 13 May 2018, 01:46:35 pm
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Summary
Like many others I have been aware of this Bull$hit for a while now, but as the new ULEZ (Ultra low emission zone) is coming into force by 8th April 2019 I thought I'd better check the status of both my bikes, a 2006 Bandit 1200 & 2005 Fazer 1000. Both bikes were were 'according to TFL" NO LONGER Euro 3 exempt. I found all the relevant sites where you can put in your reg and it will tell you if your bike is exempt -
- ULEZ site & check - https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone (https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone)
- T-charge site & check- https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/emissions-surcharge/compliance-checker (https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/emissions-surcharge/compliance-checker)
- Congestion Zone - (bikes are and have always been exempt) https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge/discounts-and-exemptions#on-this-page-1 (https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge/discounts-and-exemptions#on-this-page-1)
Getting your bike exempt/compliant
If you know your bike is Euro3 compliant but -
- The date of registration is before 01st July 2007, TFL will consider it non-compliant.
- The date is as above but the Exhaust Emission section is populated, then all you need to do is send a copy of the V5C to the ULEZ dept at TFL and they will then update the website to show it as compliant.(may not require having to create a TFL account so good).
- But if the date is before 01/01/07 and the Exhaust Emission section is not-populated, then you can either request a letter of homologation from Yamaha stating the Euro3 status (I believe there is no charge for this, which is the route I am going down).
- Or you can just pay the £75 to Yamaha to get a CoC if the bike is older than 2002 (Euro3 came in for motorcycles in 2002)
- Honda don't charge for the CoC, while all the others do - Yamaha(£70), Kawasaki (TBC), Suzuki (£90).
- An alternative (albeit scam) option, if you can't get a Euro3 status letter or a CoC, is to get it emissions (NOx) tested (see below)
Only testing center in London/Uk.
- The owner has a family member who works inside TFL. This may or may not explain why -
- This shop (Riverbank m/c) is only place with the ability to do the emissions test for ULEZ compliance.
- The charge is £175 and is what most people would consider a scam.
- If your bike fails the emissions test, RB m/c charge £75 to jam a catalytic convertor into the exhaust (link pipe) of carburetted vehicle.
- As understand it, fitting a cat to a carburetted vehicle will at best last few months before the cat is useless, therefor fitting it would appear to be fraudulent?
- The owner has been quoted as saying 'it doesn't matter, once the bike has passed the test you can just remove it'. I will leave the obvious conclusion to you the motorcyclist.
- Here is a report of a Yamaha RD350 & TDR250 passing the above test (https://www.bikerandbike.co.uk/1985-motorbike-gets-ulez-exemption-with-a-nox-test/), which shows ULEZ is basically a scam.
More info- Euro 3/4 info - https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2016/january/mcn-plus---emissions-impossible-what-euro-4-really-means/ (https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2016/january/mcn-plus---emissions-impossible-what-euro-4-really-means/)
- Another thread with ULEZ info - http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24907.0.html (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24907.0.html)
- More proof that ULEZ is a scam & farce - https://www.visordown.com/news/general/proof-ulez-farce?fbclid=IwAR3kT2b8qOoVYTIh__6ecnj1ovUsZl02LUzUYRLAVnoq_3-STy0-_HUft1k (https://www.visordown.com/news/general/proof-ulez-farce?fbclid=IwAR3kT2b8qOoVYTIh__6ecnj1ovUsZl02LUzUYRLAVnoq_3-STy0-_HUft1k)
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I found all the relevant sites where you can put in your reg and it will tell you if your bike is exempt -
... At the moment.
IIRC there's already plans to decrease the emissions levels in the next few years, despite the fact that bikes reduce congestion and, thus, pollution :(
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Obviously does affect my bike, but not my daily commute, so for now i'm not too bothered, but i'm sure they will make the ULEZ zones bigger and more widespread as time goes on.
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I'm surprised they haven't blamed the raise in the number of murders/ knife crime in London on vehicle pollution so they can screw a bit more money out of the motorists.
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By 2020 Leeds and at least 4 more places will have " clean air zones" and like London these zones will get bigger and bigger and more expensive as they realise how much money they can make out of them.
Just another ploy to use the enviroment as a tax generator and to put the poor and working class back on the bus where they belong, leaving the roads clear for their betters.
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and to put the poor and working class back on the bus where they belong
Have you been on a bus recently - or at least out here in middle earth you have to be rich to use a bus
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Have you been on a bus recently - or at least out here in middle earth you have to be rich to use a bus
That the irony of it all, a bike is and has been cheaper the public transport for a very long time now. I live in Hertfordshire and London at peak times is horrendously expensive @ £25 for 1 day travel card (the return ticket being no better),where as £25 gets me just over two days travel on the bike. And the cost effectiveness of the bike gets even better when used for local journey's.
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What would happen if everyone stopped using their own transport for a week and relied on public transport to work, and nobody bought fuel for vehicles that week. The country would come to a grinding halt, and the treasury would loose millions in fuel tax, vat, and rip off congestion/emission charges. I know it wont happen but perhaps those in power would be more careful when dreaming up schemes to rip drivers off if it did.
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What would happen if everyone stopped using their own transport for a week and relied on public transport to work, and nobody bought fuel for vehicles that week. The country would come to a grinding halt
That actually happened about 20 years ago didn't it when there was those blockades of the refinery's.
It was a bit like Mad Max 2 with everyone searching for the fuel, the precious fuel!.
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For anything like that to work all drivers would have to join in no private cars, 4x4s so no one would have a need to buy fuel Left bikes out, as there would be no SMDSY no D**K heads in 4X4S, Audis, BMWs, Mercs or any other cage so it would be safer for us to ride.
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That actually happened about 20 years ago didn't it when there was those blockades of the refinery's.
It was a bit like Mad Max 2 with everyone searching for the fuel, the precious fuel!.
I remember it well. I had enough petrol in my car to get me to/from work for a few more days (about 50 mile round trip) and the company wanted to send me up to Corby for a few days.
I agreed to go on the proviso that they found me a diesel car with a full tank of fuel so I could get home again to Sussex. They found one with half a tank and our warehouse in Corby had its own fuel bunker for the trucks so I could fill it up for the return.
On arriving in Corby they were made to fill the car up BEFORE I started any work so I knew I would get home :)
the roads were deserted though. It was a lovely drive there and back.
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So when they expand the zone as far out as the North & South circular roads in October 2021 is that going to encompass The Ace Cafe?. The actual premises is on the 'outer' side of that road, but will the road to access it be included in the ULEZ charge?.
'Historic' vehicles have an exemption and obviously the really modern bikes are OK, but it would financially affect the riders of everything accesing The Ace that was produced between 1978 and the introduction of Euro 3 wouldn't it?.
Don't expect to see so many classic 80's Japanese two-strokes attending events there in the future if that's the case :rolleyes .
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Bath's clean air zone is being muted, but won't include any form of motorbike, there is some forward thinking about.
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the ACE CAFE will be out side the zone travailing on the north circular will be ok
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^that's true if it's like existing congestion charge zone. You can skirt round it but not enter it.
I live in central london and will be screwed. It will be time to give up biking I think, as anything decent gets nicked or someone will stab you for it at the lights. :-(
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Time to up sticks and Foc off from Laaaaaaaanddddaaaaan, the place is becoming a disaster area anyway, almost as clean as Mumbai
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I am so glad I don't live in London, to many people no open roads, jesus ,
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I thought I'd better check the status of both my bikes - 2006 Bandit 1200 & 2005 Fazer 1000 (both are Euro 3 so are exempt).
Either I miss-read or the status of the bikes was changed, because now both bikes no longer are and will have to be sold -
- http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24804.0.html (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24804.0.html)
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Bath's clean air zone is being muted, but won't include any form of motorbike, there is some forward thinking about.
For now
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Anyone else seen this: https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/january/ulez-london-sadiq-khan/ (https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/january/ulez-london-sadiq-khan/)
Basically, if you can prove you old pre-2007 bike produces less than 0.15 g/km NOx, there's a fair chance it could be made exempt from the ULEZ. So, anyone got any stats for the our FZS600's or FZS1000's? No mention of NOx on the V5 for my 2003 FZS600.
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If the FZS600 can get an exemption there's hope for everyone!. No chance I'll bet.
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Really not sure, seems it certainly fails the Euro-2 standard on CO2 emissions alone (14.8g/km - https://www.ultimatespecs.com/motorcycles-specs/honda/yamaha-fzs-600-fazer-1999 (https://www.ultimatespecs.com/motorcycles-specs/honda/yamaha-fzs-600-fazer-1999)). Whereas Euro-2 and Euro-3 stipulate CO2 limits of 5.5 g/km and 2 g/km.
But as far as NOx emissions I can't find anything. :-( If it's below that 0.15 g/km limit for Euro-3, there's a chance the FZS600 could live on in London!
Euro emission standards: https://www.transportpolicy.net/standard/eu-motorcycles-emissions/ (https://www.transportpolicy.net/standard/eu-motorcycles-emissions/)
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Just checked my V5s. Like I suspect everybody else's, my FZS600 doesn't show a NOx figure. My 2015 Tiger 800 shows 0.117 (pass), but my (fuel injection) 2004 Speed Triple shows 0.160 (just fail). So I think we will be lucky to get the 600s and 1000s low enough.
Having said that, if there are no NOx figures registered with dvla for our bikes, shouldn't we be given the benefit of the doubt?
My diesel Mondeo is showing 0.225 :eek On the other hand, any VW that's ever been built passes with flying colours :lol
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So as I suspected the FZS1000 is technically Euro3 compliant and all we need is a Cert to continue to ride out bikes in London -
- http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=24907.msg291604;boardseen#new (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=24907.msg291604;boardseen#new)
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filler post see next page...
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04-03-2019 MAG recommends ULEZ ‘breathing space’ for motorcycles
MAG has asked London authorities to allow time with bikers to prevent an angry, administratively nightmarish chaos over ULEZ charges for motorcycles.
MAG met with former Chair of the Transport Committee on the Greater London Authority, Keith Prince AM, at London’s City Hall to seek a postponement for motorcycles from the ULEZ pollution charges for older motorbikes. This was supplemented by a formal letter (link HERE (https://wiki.mag-uk.org/images/9/97/20190301163936590.pdf)) to the Mayor, Sadiq Khan, requesting the postponement. Reasons identified for the postponement of the charges include:- The Mayor and TfL haven’t yet grasped issues relating to the introduction of the ULEZ charge for older bikes. This means eleventh-hour panic could lead to ill-considered, knee jerk decisions from bikers and also from policy makers.
- Postponing ULEZ on motorcycles has a tiny impact on emissions. By TfL’s own figures fewer than 4,000 bikes will be non-compliant with Euro 3 – a figure itself already declining through entirely legitimate individual exemptions.
- ULEZ as it stands means the certainty of injustice, as one biker can be charged whilst riding next to a biker with an identical bike that’s exempt.
- Postponement can still lead to charging in 2021 if evidence proves the case for it. Currently TfL has no meaningful evidence on motorcycle emissions, nor effective modelling techniques to know the positive effect of modal shift to powered two wheelers. A delay provides time to measure real world emissions and journey time-savings – which will also reduce congestion and thus secondary emissions.
- The social impact on the poorest road users, who can often only afford older motorcycles and scooters for their commuting needs, has been totally ignored and turns the ULEZ charges into a regressive tax against the least wealthy.
- TfL has yet to justify the disproportionate effect of charging motorcycles, which would have to pay the same as older cars, while newer cars get in for free.
MAG’s Director of Communications & Public Affairs, Lembit Öpik, warns: ‘there’s a pressing need to take all of this into account to avoid administrative nightmares and injustices. Many motorcycles facing the charge are operating at emissions levels below the ULEZ emissions thresholds. TfL would be obliged to refund any payments made by those riders. So let’s be sensible and postpone this charge, before the whole thing descends into chaos.’
So I have renewed my ancient subs to MAG, due to the work they are doing on our behalf regarding ULEZ.
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A fellow Foccer has been trying to get his bike made exempt and you should follow his progress in the following thread-
- http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=24907.msg294007#msg294007 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=24907.msg294007#msg294007)
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FZS600 is a no no.... (see below from Yamaha) might be worth someone asking about the FZ6
Good Afternoon,
Thank you for your enquiry.
We do however regret to advise that only models constructed to comply with European Whole Vehicle Type Approval, regulations that were not fully introduced until 2003, will qualify for a CoC.
Due to the age of your machine it was not subject to European Whole Type Approval testing, in this instance we can only advise the NOx output for the Model code, therefore a machine of that model of a similar age, which was 0.185 (g/km).
We apologise we are not able to be of assistance.
Kind Regards
Customer Service[/b] [/font]
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This is interesting
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ulez_exemptions_for_pre_euro_3_m (https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ulez_exemptions_for_pre_euro_3_m)
MAG's recent Freedom of Information request to TFL about exemptions. From tfl's response it looks like exemptions will have to be on a bike by bike basis, rather than attributed to whole models.
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FZS600 is a no no.... (see below from Yamaha) might be worth someone asking about the FZ6
Good Afternoon,
Thank you for your enquiry.
We do however regret to advise that only models constructed to comply with European Whole Vehicle Type Approval, regulations that were not fully introduced until 2003, will qualify for a CoC.
Due to the age of your machine it was not subject to European Whole Type Approval testing, in this instance we can only advise the NOx output for the Model code, therefore a machine of that model of a similar age, which was 0.185 (g/km).
We apologise we are not able to be of assistance.
Kind Regards
Customer Service
what year is you fox mtread
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2003 model, registered in Nov 2002. Last of the Foxeyes with the tuning forks logo on the tank. Don't think they come any later.
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If they spell emissions correctly, it could possibly affect me. But no, not while there are grammatical errors to be found :b
/grammar nazi
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Grammar and Spelling are two entirely different things :b
/pedant nazi
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So I have done a freedom of info request to TFL - I want to know exactly what kit is required to test bikes for NOx and create a CoC.
Superbikehire (http://www.superbikehire.co.uk/) in east london atm are the only place I know of, but they are charging £175 and they wont guarantee a pass - smells like a cash gouging scam so decided I would like to know how they can justify this cost and why some bikes wont pass.
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As someone who has had to answer FOI requests in the past, I fear you will be fobbed off. TFL will say that any testing station /dealer that has approved kit for testing NOx to a Euro 3 standard can provide TFL with results. So far only one dealer has applied to do this, but they have asked for others to apply. The fee is a commercial decision by the garage, nothing to do with them.
The CoC is the result of the test carried out by the manufacturer. A trustworthy source.
The question needing to be asked is why don't TFL accept that bikes of the same model /year as one that has a CoC should also be exempted? Why do all bikes of the same type need their own CoC, when they are identical (in terms of NOx).
As I said, anybody taken to court for a bike identical to one TFL have passed, would win.
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- So far only one dealer has applied to do this, but they have asked for others to apply.
- The CoC is the result of the test carried out by the manufacturer. A trustworthy source.
- That exactly why I have made an Foi request, why has only one dealer in all of London done this.
- SuperBikeHire are saying they produce CoC reports - what makes them more or as trustworthy as a manufacturer?
Anyway a summary of my Foi request -
Dear Mr xxxxxx
TfL Ref: FOI-0565-1920
Thank you for your request received by Transport for London (TfL) on 24th May 2019 asking for information about the equipment used to test motorcycles for ULEZ exemption.
Your request will be processed in accordance with the requirements of the Freedom of Information Act and our information access policy.
A response will be sent to you by 24th June 2019. We publish a substantial range of information on our website on subjects including operational performance, contracts, expenditure, journey data, governance and our financial performance. This includes data which is frequently asked for in FOI requests or other public queries. Please check [url]http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/[/url] ([url]http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/[/url]) to see if this helps you.
We will publish anonymised versions of requests and responses on the [url=http://www.tfl.gov.uk]www.tfl.gov.uk[/url] ([url]http://www.tfl.gov.uk/[/url]) website. We will not publish your name and we will send a copy of the response to you before it is published on our website.
In the meantime, if you would like to discuss this matter further, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Yours sincerely,
xxxx
FOI Case Officer
FOI Case Management Team
General Counsel
Transport for London
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FOI-0565-1920 Mr xxxx Received 24/05/2019:
Please confirm the make and model of equipment required to test motorcycles for ULEZ exemption, specifically testing NOx output to produce a Certificate of Conformity
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I have an 03 Foxeye 600 (FZS?) and need to ride in to The City for work. Plus I live inside the South Circ.
I took a punt (ok, my company paid for it) and had it tested. Guess what?? It passed!! It failed first time, but was so close they were able to tweak it and it passed!
Cost an arm an a leg, but will pay for itself after about a month. I now have a CoC from TFL.
The whole thing is BS and, as soon as it comes out to the SC I will have to get rid of the Voyager, but I am bloody well keeping the VR6!!
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That's very interesting. When I asked Yamaha about a CoC for my 03 fzs600, they said they couldn't issue one for the year/model, but their tests suggested a 'fail' at 0.18.
Goes to show the (expensive) benefits of individual testing. As you say, will save money quite quickly.
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Cost an arm an a leg
Same bike as me, I was thinking of selling as I'm up in Camden. Can you let us know much and where you got yours tested?
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It failed first time, but was so close they were able to tweak it and it passed! Cost an arm an a leg, but will pay for itself after about a month. I now have a CoC from TFL.
I also would like to know where and how much please :-)
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That exactly why I have made an Foi request, why has only one dealer in all of London done this.
So I got a replay from TFL to my Foi request -
You asked: “Please confirm the make and model of equipment required to test motorcycles for ULEZ exemption, specifically testing NOx output to produce a Certificate of Conformity.”
The testing that would be required for motorcycles is the type-approval ‘type 1’ emissions test. This test must be performed on a dynamometer capable of being adjusted for appropriate road-load coefficients and with a driver aid capable of displaying the appropriate velocity/time co-ordinates for the legislative drive cycle for each class of motorcycle. Emissions analysis must be by a minimum of a 5 gas analyser specified to measure NOx over the required drive cycle, whilst taking account of total gas volume over the same cycle, and producing a single value in grammes/km. Emissions testing is to be carried out in accordance with the regulation ECE/TRANS/180/Add2
Please see the attached information sheet for details of your right to appeal as well as information on copyright and what to do if you would like to re-use any of the information we have disclosed.
So what is a "type-approval ‘type 1’ emissions test" and has anyone every had one done? And Dynomometer sound a lot like a dynojet rolling road...
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Even old 2 strokes can pass the NOx test!
https://www.visordown.com/news/general/proof-ulez-farce?fbclid=IwAR3kT2b8qOoVYTIh__6ecnj1ovUsZl02LUzUYRLAVnoq_3-STy0-_HUft1k (https://www.visordown.com/news/general/proof-ulez-farce?fbclid=IwAR3kT2b8qOoVYTIh__6ecnj1ovUsZl02LUzUYRLAVnoq_3-STy0-_HUft1k)
Time to bring out the H1 :)
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H1's are exempt anyway having the 40+ year 'Historic Vehicle' status.
The link says that the two stroke bikes passed the NOx test, but it doesn't mention anything about the CO2 levels. Did they pass those?.
If the two stroke bikes easily passed the test fully, then I'd expect ANYTHING to get through :rolleyes .
I bet there's more to this than the story lets on ;)
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The link says that the two stroke bikes passed the NOx test, but it doesn't mention anything about the CO2 levels. Did they pass those?.
Apparently they only test for NOx, so surely anything can pass if those bikes did? :rolleyes
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Apparently they only test for NOx, so surely anything can pass if those bikes did?
Perhaps they couldn't read the dial for all the smoke :)
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So I too asked Yamaha if they could give me any NOX info so I could apply for an exemption for my '02 fzs600. The NOX limit for TfL exemption is 0.15g/km, You can see from their reply below that they reckon it might be slightly over if compared to 'similar' bikes.
From Yamaha:
[size=inherit]Thank you for your enquiry.[/size][/color]We do however regret to advise that only models constructed to comply with European Whole Vehicle Type Approval, regulations that were not fully introduced until 2003, will qualify for a CoC.Due to the age of your machine it was not subject to European Whole Type Approval testing, in this instance we can only advise the NOx output for the Model code, therefore a machine of that model of a similar age, which was 0.185 (g/km).We apologise we are not able to be of assistance.[/si
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So after yet more research I found out which government dept to contact to go about getting my bike/s (2006 GSF1200 and 2005 FZS1000) tested to obtain my own EWVTA Certificate of Conformity. I emailed said dept enquiries@vca.gov.uk and got the following reply -
Dear Sir/Madam
Thank you for your email enquiry dated 18 August 2019, concerning the above.
The Certificate of Conformity comes from the manufacturer.
Although DVSA carry out the MSVA testing (as we have the facilities to do so) we cannot make a decision on which vehicles require the testing prior to registration. The DVLA are the authority who will register the bike so it is their decision what paperwork (if any) will need to be submitted to them to allow registration to occur as multiple methods can be used (be it MSVA certificate, Certificate of Conformity etc).
The DVLA email service can be found here -
- 0300 790 6801 for drivers queries.
- 0300 790 6802 for vehicle queries.
To be able to permanently register a motorcycle, quad or trike, that is less than 10 years old in the UK with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) , you must either provide proof of European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval (ECWVTA) obtained from the manufacturer, or put the vehicle through a Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval (MSVA) test.
You can find the MSVA application form here (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/motorcycle-single-vehicle-approval-msva-1) and you can view the fees for the MSVA test here. (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/individual-vehicle-approval-inspection-fees/individual-vehicle-approval-iva-inspection-fees-from-1-october-2014)
Kind regards,
Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency | The Ellipse, Padley Road, Swansea, SA1 8AN
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From: bikerdude
Sent: 18 August 2019 12:39
To: enquiries@vca.gov.uk
Cc: Enquiries <Enquiries@dvsa.gov.uk>
Subject: ECWVTA and COC - how to obtain for Motorcycle
To the VCA & VLSA,
I own a 2005 Yamaha FZS 1000 motorcycle that I learned a few years after purchasing it, that it was originally a US model imported into the UK. How do I go about getting CoC certificate from yourselves for my motorcycle as stated near the top of the page on the following government website –
- https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/motorcycle-single-vehicle-approval (https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/motorcycle-single-vehicle-approval)
I am having to email my inquiry as the above page doesn’t state or link to anywhere where or how to get the CoC for an imported vehicle.
Kind regards
Now I looked at the MSVA application form and the webpage I downloaded it from and it doesn't state anywhere on that form (typical government inter-dept failings) that the bike needs to be less than 10 years old, but as I don't have to pay anything upfront I have nothing to loose by trying to get both bikes tested.
b.
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If you read the thread in the FZS1000 forum, you'll see Yamaha will let you have a CoC (for £60) showing your bike has a NOx level that is exempt. Then you just send it to TFL....
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If you read the thread in the FZS1000 forum, you'll see Yamaha will let you have a CoC (for £60)
I believe this is only on bikes manufactured in europe, mine is a US import that was converted to UK spec.
Got a link to the above thread?
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I seem to remember Dazza's was the same
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24907.0.html (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24907.0.html)
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Just Checked mine and it meets the emission standards for ULEZ. :)
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have updated the OP.
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So just paid Yamaha £65 for a CoC for my 2007 FZ1. The date of registration in the UK was the 11th of May, 3 weeks before TFL's arbitrary date of 1st of June.
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Here you go, what we all need to know, Riverbank Motorcycles just replied to me:
"...A 2000 FZS 600 will test around 0.30 gm/KM as standard. The quickest solution is to fit a small suitable catalytic converter into the exhaust system before the test, which would ensure a pass result. This catalytic converter will not effect your power in any way. The suitable cat would be £125, the fitting (approx.) £60 and test £175 making a total of £360. Any brand of fuel is fine, as long as it hasn't been sitting in the tank longer than 6 weeks maximum. Ggenerally when it's busy we have a 2 week lead time, you can book via the website."
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Its great that you can get this done, but Riverbank really is taking advantage of the situation. £60 labour to remove the end can (2 bolts and 5 mins off and on) and wedge the cat into the end of the link pipe is a joke. On top of cost of the cat and then the farcical £175 test fee?!.
If you check out the Visordown article, an RD250 & 350 (both 2 strokes) supposedly passed at 0.03 gm/KM - https://www.visordown.com/news/general/proof-ulez-farce (https://www.visordown.com/news/general/proof-ulez-farce)
So before spending all the money, do as Gnasher suggested and give Yamaha a call to check the emission figure for your bike, if its under 0.15 then all it will cost you is £60 for a Certificate of conformity which you then upload along with a copy of the first page of your V5 on the TFL website -
- https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge (https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge)
You dont even need to put you full/real details in, as all your doing is getting the bike onto their database to prove the bike is compliant (see attached) after which I see no reason you can't delete the account.
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How would Yamaha know what the emissions your bike is chucking out 20+ years after it was built though?
I thought that was the point of the test, plus what i've read several times, in that each bike would be different due to age, mileage, wear and tear, and more importantly how well each bike has been looked after over a long time?
So effectively all of our bikes would give out a different result due to the above reasons, wouldn't they?
The RD350 that passed was just one bike of that model that has had more replacement parts than Triggers broom, and is in showroom condition, it didn't pave the way for all of them to pass, which would be the same for Fazers, or any model of bike for that matter. (article here www.bikerandbike.co.uk/1985-motorbike-gets-ulez-exemption-with-a-nox-test (http://www.bikerandbike.co.uk/1985-motorbike-gets-ulez-exemption-with-a-nox-test) )
It was also the same owner that owned the TDR250 too that passed with a very similar ridiculously low reading for a bike of such advanced years, so he obviously knew what he was doing. I'm still not sure exactly how he got them that low, but i really do believe that he fitted his own Cat. Converters beforehand and hasn't actually mentioned that important piece of info to anyone?
I totally agree about the charges though, i actually talked about this yesterday to a few friends about how they were abusing the situation and must be making an absolute mint out of it at the same time. Why they are currently the only bike shop in London officially listed to do this work is very puzzling too?
I was even going to hold off getting it done for a while, but then thought there is the real chance they could increase their prices even more from October if they wanted to, and would not be surprised in the slightest if they do.
My bike is actually booked in now to get sorted in a couple of weeks, and i keep telling myself that £360 is nothing compared to a daily tariff, fines through the post, or being forced to change a bike that i really don't want to get rid of, even if i do have that discerning feeling that i'm being ever so slightly mugged off.
I did just have a look on my V5 logbook and although there is a section for emissions it was not filled in at all.
And i also found a copy of an old Dyno reading when i had some work done on the bike years ago but there was nothing listed on there either.
I'm now going to look into contacting Yamaha on your advice and see what details they can offer me, before i take the plunge in a couple of weeks? But i can't imagine the news would be good, otherwise we'd all know about it by now, plus don't forget, the whole reason the FZS 600 range was discontinued was because they failed the emissions test back then, so i can't see why a used bike that is between 18 to 23 years old should suddenly pass now, unless like the RD350 it has been rebuilt to mint condition and had a few tweaks here and there, and more than likely a secret Cat. Converter slipped into the end can on the quiet.
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So before spending all the money, do as Gnasher suggested and give Yamaha a call to check the emission figure for your bike, if its under 0.15 then all it will cost you is £60 for a Certificate of conformity which you then upload along with a copy of the first page of your V5 on the TFL website -
But (as I said) Yamaha will give you a figure which is over the limit. Been there, done that.
NOX figures were only entered onto V5s later, so only the manufacturer can provide an official figure.
Of course individual bikes might give a lower NOX figure, especially if the mixture has been adjusted, such as with a non OE air filter. But then you need it individually tested, and for that you are at the mercy of the only approved testing workshop..... who have you by the short and curlies :eek
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I have no reason to disbelieve him when he said that the FZS 600 averages around the 0.3 reading, because that totally fits with these bikes which were built around the years of Euro 2 compliance levels which at the time had an upper level of 0.5.
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I totally agree about the charges though, i actually talked about this yesterday to a few friends about how they were abusing the situation and must be making an absolute mint out of it at the same time. Why they are currently the only bike shop in London officially listed to do this work is very puzzling too?
I'm now going to look into contacting Yamaha on your advice and see what details they can offer me, before i take the plunge in a couple of weeks?
Maybe because he has a family member that works for TFL.
It cant hurt.
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Here's one solution:
https://www.returnofthecaferacers.com/electric-motorcycle/electric-yamaha-fazer/ (https://www.returnofthecaferacers.com/electric-motorcycle/electric-yamaha-fazer/)
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I did contact Yamaha by email, and they replied asking for my VIN/chassis number, etc, which i sent back to them, then they never responded again!
I just sent them another email with the same details.
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My 2000 FZS 600 level read 0.43, which he said was unusually high.
But after speaking to one of the staff I mentioned I cleaned my K&N air filter last week and he said that would not have helped at all and more than likely raised the level, although in the same breath he also said it wouldn't have been significant enough to make it pass.
So something to note, a dirty paper filter could actually lower your test results.
I had the Cat. fitted anyway, as i never really had much choice.
I was there about 70mins in total, which included the initial Dyno test, then having the Cat. fitted, then a retest again.
Whole lot cost £435 :'(
No power loss whatsoever, but it has changed the sound of the bike a little bit, but to be honest I like the new sound so no worries there.
I asked about how I will know when it's all well and good and was to told to download an app tomorrow called TFL DRIVE, and when I enter my Reg. Number it will state that my bike is exempt.
And finally it was pointed out to me that no bike is the same, so one bike may pass whereas another might fail, even if they are the same year and model of bike. This is due to many factors so there is no way of knowing what your bike will show up.
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This was rather neatly done.
I'm going to try some black wrap around the link pipe to keep the thieving eyes away from it.
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Sorted 8)
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:thumbup
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So before spending all the money, do as Gnasher suggested and give Yamaha a call to check the emission figure for your bike, if its under 0.15 then all it will cost you is £60 for a Certificate of conformity which you then upload along with a copy of the first page of your V5 on the TFL website -
But (as I said) Yamaha will give you a figure which is over the limit. Been there, done that.
NOX figures were only entered onto V5s later, so only the manufacturer can provide an official figure.
Of course individual bikes might give a lower NOX figure, especially if the mixture has been adjusted, such as with a non OE air filter. But then you need it individually tested, and for that you are at the mercy of the only approved testing workshop..... who have you by the short and curlies :eek
When I contacted Yamaha about my 600 they said they couldn't give any figures as the bike was manufactured before testing began which at first I thought it strange since it's the same year as my thou But I figure tests would be carried out on the first batch of a new models which the 600 was 1998? and the thou 2001?My 2000 FZS 600 level read 0.43, which he said was unusually high.
But after speaking to one of the staff I mentioned I cleaned my K&N air filter last week and he said that would not have helped at all and more than likely raised the level, although in the same breath he also said it wouldn't have been significant enough to make it pass.
So something to note, a dirty paper filter could actually lower your test results.
I had the Cat. fitted anyway, as i never really had much choice.
I was there about 70mins in total, which included the initial Dyno test, then having the Cat. fitted, then a retest again.
Whole lot cost £435 :'(
No power loss whatsoever, but it has changed the sound of the bike a little bit, but to be honest I like the new sound so no worries there.
I asked about how I will know when it's all well and good and was to told to download an app tomorrow called TFL DRIVE, and when I enter my Reg. Number it will state that my bike is exempt.
And finally it was pointed out to me that no bike is the same, so one bike may pass whereas another might fail, even if they are the same year and model of bike. This is due to many factors so there is no way of knowing what your bike will show up.
So clean high grade fuel and dirty filter is key?
I'm thinking of having mine tested but don't fancy a £300+ bill
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So before spending all the money, do as Gnasher suggested and give Yamaha a call to check the emission figure for your bike, if its under 0.15 then all it will cost you is £60 for a Certificate of conformity which you then upload along with a copy of the first page of your V5 on the TFL website -
But (as I said) Yamaha will give you a figure which is over the limit. Been there, done that.
NOX figures were only entered onto V5s later, so only the manufacturer can provide an official figure.
Of course individual bikes might give a lower NOX figure, especially if the mixture has been adjusted, such as with a non OE air filter. But then you need it individually tested, and for that you are at the mercy of the only approved testing workshop..... who have you by the short and curlies :eek
When I contacted Yamaha about my 600 they said they couldn't give any figures as the bike was manufactured before testing began which at first I thought it strange since it's the same year as my thou But I figure tests would be carried out on the first batch of a new models which the 600 was 1998? and the thou 2001?My 2000 FZS 600 level read 0.43, which he said was unusually high.
But after speaking to one of the staff I mentioned I cleaned my K&N air filter last week and he said that would not have helped at all and more than likely raised the level, although in the same breath he also said it wouldn't have been significant enough to make it pass.
So something to note, a dirty paper filter could actually lower your test results.
I had the Cat. fitted anyway, as i never really had much choice.
I was there about 70mins in total, which included the initial Dyno test, then having the Cat. fitted, then a retest again.
Whole lot cost £435 :'(
No power loss whatsoever, but it has changed the sound of the bike a little bit, but to be honest I like the new sound so no worries there.
I asked about how I will know when it's all well and good and was to told to download an app tomorrow called TFL DRIVE, and when I enter my Reg. Number it will state that my bike is exempt.
And finally it was pointed out to me that no bike is the same, so one bike may pass whereas another might fail, even if they are the same year and model of bike. This is due to many factors so there is no way of knowing what your bike will show up.
So clean high grade fuel and dirty filter is key?
I'm thinking of having mine tested but don't fancy a £300+ bill
Basically yeah, that's what has been suggested.
I've been using ethanol free ESSO Supreme 99 for a couple of months now as my bike seems to love it so I had no issues there.
And I was in two minds whether to clean my filter or not before the test, but I've just had 2 weeks off work and there was a sunny day last week which helps the K&N dry quicker naturally after cleaning so I took advantage of it while I had spare time on my hands.
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Here's the reply I got from Yamaha for the FZS600 back in 2019..The pass level (euro3) is 0.15.
Thank you for your enquiry.We do however regret to advise that only models constructed to comply with European Whole Vehicle Type Approval, regulations that were not fully introduced until 2003, will qualify for a CoC.
Due to the age of your machine it was not subject to European Whole Type Approval testing, in this instance we can only advise the NOx output for the Model code, therefore a machine of that model of a similar age, which was 0.185
]We apologise we are not able to be of assistance.
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Yamaha didn't bother responding to my email after asking me for the chassis/VIN number.
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Yamaha didn't bother responding to my email after asking me for the chassis/VIN number.
They must have got bored answering. Or thought 'go to foc-u' :lol
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Yamaha didn't bother responding to my email after asking me for the chassis/VIN number.
They must have got bored answering. Or thought 'go to foc-u' :lol
:lol :lol :lol :lol
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- This was rather neatly done.
- I'm going to try some black wrap around the link pipe to keep the thieving eyes away from it.
Im not a welding expert by any stretch and someone please correct me if Im wrong but I have several issue with that cut-n-shut job -
- Imho that link pipe looks like Stainless steel, so whats with the cheap-ass paint job covering the even worse quality welds? (they bead is all over the place and they didnt even bother to clean off the weld spatter, which is the least I would have expect for the amount of money they charged!)
- Why did they have to cut into the link pipe at all, why didnt that just shove it into the end
Regarding covering it up, just replace the link pipe. Now that your bike is on tfl's bull$hit system there is absolutely no way tfl can prove oitherwise. Then just keep the modded link pipe for if and when you sell the bike or when the government introduce nationwide emissions testing which will put Riverbank ripoff merchants out of business.
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I would guess that their thinking is that welding it in stops it from being removed. The ones I saw online before I had it done look like a male/female extension you just pop in between the pipe and the end can.
I still have 2 other exhaust systems at home (pipe & end cans) if I want to easily change it, but I have to admit the bike sounds quite good right now and is running extremely smooth. It now sounds more like a bigger engined bike, but in a nice way compared to how it was before.
My Quill end can is technically a race can, and I reckon the Cat. has created a tiny bit of back pressure which the bike seems absolutely fine with, so in general I'm happy with the way things are right now.
I did cover up the pipe with exhaust wrap though.
As for the welding, I was a little shocked when I saw it, because I never knew they were going to do that, but I'm not really bothered by it. I was jokingly texting a friend at the time it was being done that it sounded like the A-Team in the workshop as there was a lot of angle grinding and welding going on, without realising it was my bike they were doing it to.
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Im not a welding expert by any stretch and someone please correct me if Im wrong but I have several issue with that cut-n-shut job -
- Imho that link pipe looks like Stainless steel, so whats with the cheap-ass paint job covering the even worse quality welds? (they bead is all over the place and they didnt even bother to clean off the weld spatter, which is the least I would have expect for the amount of money they charged!)[/l][[/l][/l]
I was trained in welding in a past life and you're right, this is poor welding at best. Looks like they've used a MIG welder, which is the cheapest and quickest route, MIG is one of the most common welder system out there and the easiest to learn and use. The best method to weld stainless sheet, especially thin tubing is TIG. But it requires more time to learn and a lot more skill as you have to control the torch with one hand and the welding material, the rod with the other. Because it takes time to obtain the skill it's not used by many. All that said a skilled MIG welder with the correct wire/gas flux mix should be capable of producing better quality welds than this.
- Why did they have to cut into the link pipe at all, why didnt that just shove it into the end[/l][/l]
Because the downtube collector stub slides into the end of the silencer link pipe, meaning it would need to be pushed up the pipe 50mm or so to allow the collector stub to slide in. That would make it very difficult with MiG or TIG but possible, although it would take skill. The CAT should have and are with quality conversations, fitted/welded into the collector stub. This requires more skill and can present other technical issues, like the early FZS systems they're are not stainless and special wire or rods are required to weld. They other method is interference fit but this would mean bespoke CAT elements for each bike and that would cost.
Basically this is as cheapest job they can get away with, on as many different bikes as possible with and max their profit.
I've seen a FZ6 downtubes they have CATs in them, cut and reconfigure to fit an FZS, to get through the Pairs equivalent to our ULEZ.
Regarding covering it up, just replace the link pipe. Now that your bike is on tfl's bull$hit system there is absolutely no way tfl can prove oitherwise.
Personally I'm in total agreement with the law, we've got to reduce emissions. In that case I wouldn't recommend this course of action and I'm told they do or are planning to do spot checks, e.g. you get tested on the spot, or you have to go directly to a test area. This would make sense and is the only way to ensure people don't take the piss. It's going to get much tougher in the coming years, whether we like it or not.
when the government introduce nationwide emissions testing which will put Riverbank ripoff merchants out of business.
It's on it way, all new bikes for some years now have had CATs fitted as standard, they've also had full loop fuel/air/ignition/emission systems, they just not been required to be tested in the UK at MOT. They will, at some point quite soon and its very likely it will be illegal to change them i.e. cutting out CATs shoving on open exhaust, engine remaps etc. Many make the assumption, noise is power and what worked 40 odd yrs ago works on late 90's on, WRONG.
Riverbank I agree are just fleecing people, they've got a monopoly which shouldn't be allowed. Governments are looking for the cheapest, fastest and as profitable as possible ways, to force older vehicles off the road, especially those doing daily commuting into cities/towns. Iv'e said it many times, if you have to daily or often commute into London or any city and will do for at least a year, get yourself a late model maxi scooter. You can pick them up for less than a years ULEZ charge, bearing in mind many other large cities and town either have a charge or soon will have.
The other point I'd take real issue with, is the statement apparently made by the bod at Riverside. Apparently he said, "having a clean air filter will make the NOX higher" and then in the next breath and I quote "he also said it wouldn't have been significant enough to make it pass."
Utter bollocks, as will running higher octane fuel will reduce emissions, just shows you what they don't know. Classic case of a little bit of knowledge and all that :rolleyes
Pretty much anyone can be trained to strap a bike into a dyno and do a run, making sense of the reading from that run and implementing changes, is where the skill comes in. Bit like the organ grinder and the monkey ;) The bike was running higher emissions because it's either their dyno equipment is out of calibration (very common) or the bike isn't set up correctly and/or there's engine/component wear, again very common on nearly 20yr old bike, plain and simple.
Restricted air filter will mean richer fuel mixture, richer fuel mixture = higher NOX. Also using higher octane fuel will increase emissions for an engine not tuned/designed to burn it and could reduce engine power. Admittedly the difference between 95 & 98 will be small, but it will be there. Pretty much all Jap bikes for decades are designed to run on fuel between 80 - 95 octane fuel. One easy way to get more power is to increase compression, more compression and earlier ignition = more power but that increases heat, which in turn causes pre ignition or detonation. Which means, you lose most of the gains of running higher compression. To overcome this higher octane fuel was produced, it requires more heat to burn as such can run higher compression before ignition via compression heat or pre detonation. Result more power due to a stable detention, the higher the octane the higher the compression = more power.
To burn higher octane fuel efficiently requires higher compression and more ignition advance. Just shoving in 98 will do absolutely nothing to increase power, possibly the opposite, probably not much, not even noticeable by the rider but there. If you do nothing to the bike to accommodate running higher octane, you will get no increase in power a richer mixture and increased emissions, FACT
I had a chap contact me, who'd removed the CATs and EXUP valve from his XJR1300 and fitted a freeflow exhaust system at a cost of almost 3k, running on V power. Now it doesn't start, idle or drive very well low end - mid range and then found out it's producing only 95bhp, standard a good one will put out 103 - 5. Unless the fuel/ignition systems are modified to take into account the changes they can't take advantage, not there is much anyway couple bhp at most. Like many others I've seen and will see, he listened to internet plagisiers :rolleyes and wasted 3k. To fix it either pay out more to get it properly set up or put it back to standard, which will cost him more as he destroyed his downtubes. Fitting a cat doesn't mean less power and any reduction will be very small and only at the very top end and who rides around everywhere with the throttled nailed :lol
What many UK bikes can and do benefit from is advancing the ignition by around 4* this makes starting, better and gives a cleaner/smoother burn, bike feels more responsive. Some bikes actually produce a few hp lower down and in the emission holes manufactures create to get through type approval. Why can you do this in the UK, because the engine is designed to run of fuel as low as 80 certainly low 90's, here in the UK all fuel is above 95.
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What many UK bikes can and do benefit from is advancing the ignition by around 4* this makes starting, better and gives a cleaner/smoother burn, bike feels more responsive. Some bikes actually produce a few hp lower down and in the emission holes manufactures create to get through type approval. Why can you do this in the UK, because the engine is designed to run of fuel as low as 80 certainly low 90's, here in the UK all fuel is above 95.
This is what I've done on my FZ6, also I got a Power Commander III to smooth out the power delivery and take out the hole between 5-6k revs which Yamaha put in to give better emissions during testing...! :thumbup
I don't do any riding in London, fortunately ;)
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My 2000 FZS 600 level read 0.43, which he said was unusually high.
But after speaking to one of the staff I mentioned I cleaned my K&N air filter last week and he said that would not have helped at all and more than likely raised the level, although in the same breath he also said it wouldn't have been significant enough to make it pass.
So something to note, a dirty paper filter could actually lower your test results.
I had the Cat. fitted anyway, as i never really had much choice.
I was there about 70mins in total, which included the initial Dyno test, then having the Cat. fitted, then a retest again.
Whole lot cost £435 :'(
No power loss whatsoever, but it has changed the sound of the bike a little bit, but to be honest I like the new sound so no worries there.
I asked about how I will know when it's all well and good and was to told to download an app tomorrow called TFL DRIVE, and when I enter my Reg. Number it will state that my bike is exempt.
And finally it was pointed out to me that no bike is the same, so one bike may pass whereas another might fail, even if they are the same year and model of bike. This is due to many factors so there is no way of knowing what your bike will show up.
Did you happen to see what cat they installed? I need to get one fitted but buggered if I'm letting them do that to my pipe and charge that much for the pleasure!
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My 2000 FZS 600 level read 0.43, which he said was unusually high.
But after speaking to one of the staff I mentioned I cleaned my K&N air filter last week and he said that would not have helped at all and more than likely raised the level, although in the same breath he also said it wouldn't have been significant enough to make it pass.
So something to note, a dirty paper filter could actually lower your test results.
I had the Cat. fitted anyway, as i never really had much choice.
I was there about 70mins in total, which included the initial Dyno test, then having the Cat. fitted, then a retest again.
Whole lot cost £435 :'(
No power loss whatsoever, but it has changed the sound of the bike a little bit, but to be honest I like the new sound so no worries there.
I asked about how I will know when it's all well and good and was to told to download an app tomorrow called TFL DRIVE, and when I enter my Reg. Number it will state that my bike is exempt.
And finally it was pointed out to me that no bike is the same, so one bike may pass whereas another might fail, even if they are the same year and model of bike. This is due to many factors so there is no way of knowing what your bike will show up.
Did you happen to see what cat they installed? I need to get one fitted but buggered if I'm letting them do that to my pipe and charge that much for the pleasure!
No, he was quite clear about me not being allowed in the workshop, which is fair enough i s'pose due to health & safety and covid current standard practices.
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No, he was quite clear about me not being allowed in the workshop, which is fair enough i s'pose due to health & safety and covid current standard practices.
I get not being allowed into the w/s, but being deliberately blocked from seeing what they are doing to YOUR property is another thing entirely and something I cannot abide. Your paying them to work, so as the person with the money I want to see that my bike is being treated with respect. A lot of shops either have a viewing window or you can view it from outside via the w/s entrance in some instances.
Both times I had the displeasure of speaking to the owner of RB mc/s on the phone he came across and arrogant and belligerent, not what you want to hear as a potential customer. Its why ultimately I sold my Bandit 1200 and Fzs1000 for a 1250 and FZ1, his customer skills and his deminer meant that I preferred to go through all the hassle of selling and buying bikes than giving that utter c***! a single penny of my money. My reaction/stance may seem at first unreasonable, but I have spoken to over a dozen bike shops around London and either they themselves have witnessed it or their customers have.
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Did you happen to see what cat they installed? I need to get one fitted but buggered if I'm letting them do that to my pipe and charge that much for the pleasure!
As mentioned in my post above one way is to fit a later FZ6 link pipe, it requires some fabrication but that is fairly straightforward for any skilled fabricator.
https://www.sparesunlimited.co.uk/yamaha-fz6-fz6n-2004-2006-fz6s-2004-2005/ (https://www.sparesunlimited.co.uk/yamaha-fz6-fz6n-2004-2006-fz6s-2004-2005/)
Or you can go the same route as Riverbank they will fit something very similar if not the very same as, they come in various sizes to suit your pipe diameter. I've not used these, but know of people who have. In a lot of EU countries bikes are tested for emissions and have been for years, many owners are forced to retro fit as it was country wide not just a specific city or town etc.
https://www.louis-moto.co.uk/artikel/retrofit-catalytic-converter-for-sbk-exhaust-systems/10027049 (https://www.louis-moto.co.uk/artikel/retrofit-catalytic-converter-for-sbk-exhaust-systems/10027049)
Unlike the UK where the market has concentrated on decat, link pipes etc. This will change and at speed, as mentioned all new bikes within a few years at most, will be emission tested like cars and I think it's very possible in time any vehicle under going the standard MOT will to.
At present any vehicle over 40yrs old is exempt from MOT and VED, because they're deemed not to be variable for daily use, commuting etc. Yes a few might still be used to commuting but the vast majority will be weekend, high days and holiday use only.
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Isn't the problem that even if you do a DIY Cat, or otherwise adjust your emissions, Riverbank are the only shop authorised to test?
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Isn't the problem that even if you do a DIY Cat, or otherwise adjust your emissions, Riverbank are the only shop authorised to test?
Quite possibly, but as other city's/towns start adopting ULEZ zones, I'm sure a test from another approved place will be acceptable. That could already be the case I've no idea, I use my maxi scooter to enter London or any major city/town for commuting/work.
Just so much easier and cheaper, just twist and go ;)
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I heard some areas (Birmingham?) are exempting motorcycles altogether
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Did you happen to see what cat they installed? I need to get one fitted but buggered if I'm letting them do that to my pipe and charge that much for the pleasure!
As mentioned in my post above one way is to fit a later FZ6 link pipe, it requires some fabrication but that is fairly straightforward for any skilled fabricator.
https://www.sparesunlimited.co.uk/yamaha-fz6-fz6n-2004-2006-fz6s-2004-2005/ (https://www.sparesunlimited.co.uk/yamaha-fz6-fz6n-2004-2006-fz6s-2004-2005/)
Or you can go the same route as Riverbank they will fit something very similar if not the very same as, they come in various sizes to suit your pipe diameter. I've not used these, but know of people who have. In a lot of EU countries bikes are tested for emissions and have been for years, many owners are forced to retro fit as it was country wide not just a specific city or town etc.
https://www.louis-moto.co.uk/artikel/retrofit-catalytic-converter-for-sbk-exhaust-systems/10027049 (https://www.louis-moto.co.uk/artikel/retrofit-catalytic-converter-for-sbk-exhaust-systems/10027049)
Unlike the UK where the market has concentrated on decat, link pipes etc. This will change and at speed, as mentioned all new bikes within a few years at most, will be emission tested like cars and I think it's very possible in time any vehicle under going the standard MOT will to.
At present any vehicle over 40yrs old is exempt from MOT and VED, because they're deemed not to be variable for daily use, commuting etc. Yes a few might still be used to commuting but the vast majority will be weekend, high days and holiday use only.
I did see a couple of cheap FZS pipes on ebay, and at first glances it looks like you'd only need to lop off the bracket to get it to fit, I imagine you'd need to weld on a stop for the centre stand too?
I've also been eyeing up those retrofit cats, but none of them seem to match up to my link pipe ID! I'll have to take the midpipe and can off and measure them again to be sure...
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Call me stoopid :) is the linkpipe separate or part of the down pipes?
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Call me stoopid :) is the linkpipe separate or part of the down pipes?
It is on the FZ6. The link pipe on an FZS is attached to the silencer, which slides on to the downtube collector pipe. The conversion using an FZ6 cat is either cutting out the cat element and fitting it inside the collector or silencer link pipe, or cutting the either and welding in the cat section.
Which is basically what Riverside do.
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Call me stoopid :) is the linkpipe separate or part of the down pipes?
They're separate pipes, but come in different diameters. I have two aftermarket end cans and I believe they're both different sizes to the OEM can. Or at least the pair of them are definitely different anyway as they each have a link pipe, I've not laid eyes on the stock exhaust for 14 years now.
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Call me stoopid :) is the linkpipe separate or part of the down pipes?
They're separate pipes, but come in different diameters. I have two aftermarket end cans and I believe they're both different sizes to the OEM can. Or at least the pair of them are definitely different anyway as they each have a link pipe, I've not laid eyes on the stock exhaust for 14 years now.
I've still on original pipe. My thinking was I have a set of down pipes with the common rust hole which if I could find someone able to patch the hole and fabricate the fz6 link it would save the hassle and possible expense
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No, he was quite clear about me not being allowed in the workshop, which is fair enough i s'pose due to health & safety and covid current standard practices.
I get not being allowed into the w/s, but being deliberately blocked from seeing what they are doing to YOUR property is another thing entirely and something I cannot abide. Your paying them to work, so as the person with the money I want to see that my bike is being treated with respect. A lot of shops either have a viewing window or you can view it from outside via the w/s entrance in some instances.
Both times I had the displeasure of speaking to the owner of RB mc/s on the phone he came across and arrogant and belligerent, not what you want to hear as a potential customer. Its why ultimately I sold my Bandit 1200 and Fzs1000 for a 1250 and FZ1, his customer skills and his deminer meant that I preferred to go through all the hassle of selling and buying bikes than giving that utter c***! a single penny of my money. My reaction/stance may seem at first unreasonable, but I have spoken to over a dozen bike shops around London and either they themselves have witnessed it or their customers have.
Funny you should mention it because he took a phone call as he was dealing with my paperwork and whoever was on the other end was told to F*** Off then he put the phone down on them.
I was pointed to a nearby cafe to wait, but I chose to sit in a chair on a balcony overlooking a canal that was near that metal monstrosity they built before the Olympics.
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I did contact Yamaha by email, and they replied asking for my VIN/chassis number, etc, which i sent back to them, then they never responded again!
I just sent them another email with the same details.
A month later I get a response.....sort of:
Thank you for contacting Yamaha customer support. We are sorry for the delay in getting back to you regarding this matter and we apologize for any inconvenience it may have caused.We are emailing to follow up with the case - 00055817Thank you for providing our team with the requested details for your Yamaha FZS 600.We have forwarded this case to our HQ, our team will work to provide the requested information as quickly as possible and will be in contact further at the nearest available time.
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This was rather neatly done[size=78%] [/size]
I'm going to try some black wrap around the link pipe to keep the thieving eyes away from it.
The 600 is a2 piece exhaust
So when they refer to slotting in to the link pipe is it the tailpipe or the down pipe the cat would be pushed into
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This was rather neatly done
I'm going to try some black wrap around the link pipe to keep the thieving eyes away from it.
The 600 is a2 piece exhaust
So when they refer to slotting in to the link pipe is it the tailpipe or the down pipe the cat would be pushed into
I mean, the photo that shows they've cut the pipe, inserted the cat, and rewelded it is right there in the post...
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This was rather neatly done
I'm going to try some black wrap around the link pipe to keep the thieving eyes away from it.
The 600 is a2 piece exhaust
So when they refer to slotting in to the link pipe is it the tailpipe or the down pipe the cat would be pushed into
I mean, the photo that shows they've cut the pipe, inserted the cat, and rewelded it is right there in the post...
And you mean what exactly? I realise now I've kind of repeated my myself but I'm asking not about what they've done but what others could do. So to out it another way would you know the diameter of what is considered the link pipe on the standard FZS600 pipe
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Where are we at with this? Is it possible to get some sort of certificate or evidence so that my trusty Fazer thou ('03) can be ULEZ exempt?
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Where are we at with this? Is it possible to get some sort of certificate or evidence so that my trusty Fazer thou ('03) can be ULEZ exempt?
Short answer...Yes.
Long winded journey....https://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=24907.msg296166#msg296166
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This was rather neatly done
I'm going to try some black wrap around the link pipe to keep the thieving eyes away from it.
The 600 is a2 piece exhaust
So when they refer to slotting in to the link pipe is it the tailpipe or the down pipe the cat would be pushed into
I have downpipes, then link pipe, then end can, so it's actually 3 parts.
The Cat. was put inside the middle link pipe.
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This was rather neatly done
I'm going to try some black wrap around the link pipe to keep the thieving eyes away from it.
The 600 is a2 piece exhaust
So when they refer to slotting in to the link pipe is it the tailpipe or the down pipe the cat would be pushed into
I have downpipes, then link pipe, then end can, so it's actually 3 parts.
The Cat. was put inside the middle link pipe.
:)
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Where are we at with this? Is it possible to get some sort of certificate or evidence so that my trusty Fazer thou ('03) can be ULEZ exempt?
Short answer...Yes.
Long winded journey....https://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=24907.msg296166#msg296166 (https://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=24907.msg296166#msg296166)
I read through that and I do not see the answer to my question specifically regarding the earlier '03 (in my case) Fazer 1000.
Do I have to write to Yamaha or Saddo Khan or both? does anyone have a CoC or whtever document which states this type of vehicle should be ULEZ exempt which they might be willing to share with me?
If I can obtain proof that this vehicle type is exempt then I can push through whatever paperchase may be required. What I cannot do is pay an extortionate amount to do so (why do you think I am still riding about on this old bus).
Sorry to sound cross but I keep this machine tip top and there's no way I can afford a new Euro 3 anything. Makes me spit when I see heavily polluting vehicles cluttering up the road which are clearly not "compliant" in the real world on anything other than paper..
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Haven't done it myself, and someone will correct me if wrong.
I believe you need an individual CoC from Yamaha. Yamaha UK will charge you a fee for this. The CoC should show the NOX level as below TFL's threshold. . Although all FZS1000s are technically compliant, the CoC is individual to your VIN. So you can't use somebody else's CoC. You then send the CoC with a copy of your V5 showing your Reg No and VIN to TFL, who will record your Reg No on their database as exempt.
No use trying this route for a FZS600, as the CoC will show the NOX value as non compliant
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Haven't done it myself, and someone will correct me if wrong.
I believe you need an individual CoC from Yamaha. Yamaha UK will charge you a fee for this. The CoC should show the NOX level as below TFL's threshold. . Although all FZS1000s are technically compliant, the CoC is individual to your VIN. So you can't use somebody else's CoC. You then send the CoC with a copy of your V5 showing your Reg No and VIN to TFL, who will record your Reg No on their database as exempt.
No use trying this route for a FZS600, as the CoC will show the NOX value as non compliant
Just to add .... your bike has to have the original engine which came with the frame.
The £60 charge isn't until Yamaha confirm your bike conforms. Its payable when you request the certificate of conformity
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Sorry to sound cross but I keep this machine tip top and there's no way I can afford a new Euro 3 anything. Makes me spit when I see heavily polluting vehicles cluttering up the road which are clearly not "compliant" in the real world on anything other than paper..
All the info you need is in this very thread fella, in your instance just contact Yamaha UK and get a CoC. Then once you have that, create a dummy account on TFL's website and upload a copy of your CoC and the front page of your logbook. When I did this for my FZ1, the bike was listed as ulez compliant after 24hrs.
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For anyone else doing this, go here: https://www.yamaha-motor.eu/gb/en/contact/coc_dating-letter (https://www.yamaha-motor.eu/gb/en/contact/coc_dating-letter)
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My 600 is now officially ulez exempt and de-coked to boot ;)
Took a ride up the A1 to the newest entrant in Ulez testing.
The owner Gary was very pleasant and informative.
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:thumbup
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Took a ride up the A1 to the newest entrant in Ulez testing.
Got an address and how much was it..?
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Took a ride up the A1 to the newest entrant in Ulez testing.
Got an address and how much was it..?
He's kept the pricing the same as Riverside
He is very informative we had quite a long chat.
and a coffee :) the bike is in full view through the window and there's a monitor in the waiting area showing the info.
ULEZ Testing UK Ltd
01438 941222
https://maps.app.goo.gl/YUtodfYf5zmne6LJ7
Oh and the retest £75 stays that price even if you decide to leave and later return to have work done (or do work yourself).
[Edited to fix the tiny font - GrahamM - Moderator]
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Took a ride up the A1 to the newest entrant in Ulez testing.
Got an address and how much was it..?
He's kept the pricing the same as Riverside
He is very informative we had quite a long chat.
and a coffee :) the bike is in full view through the window and there's a monitor in the waiting area showing the info.
ULEZ Testing UK Ltd
01438 941222
https://maps.app.goo.gl/YUtodfYf5zmne6LJ7 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/YUtodfYf5zmne6LJ7)
Oh and the retest £75 stays that price even if you decide to leave and later return to have work done (or do work yourself).
[Edited to fix the tiny font - GrahamM - Moderator]
I had the choice of stand outside or sit on a balcony looking at a canal when i had my bike done in the East End. The canal wasn't such an unpleasant option though. :lol
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midden, couple of questions for you, how much did it cost? and what did they do to your bike to make it pass? They are advertising now. ULEZ Testing UK (https://www.uleztesting.co.uk/?fbclid=IwAR2HPmQNBCdHKtC3qvSUk6kd4bUYjmobtcAJEsz1W648T6mVx4AsWPsq0HI&fbclid=IwAR2HPmQNBCdHKtC3qvSUk6kd4bUYjmobtcAJEsz1W648T6mVx4AsWPsq0HI).
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I see Kahn is now proposing extending the scrappage scheme for 'hard working families' defined as those who claim child benefit. it's £1000 to scrap a motorbike. I'm probably going to send my Fazer on it's way via this route, might be an option for others.
Details end July: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/scrappage-schemes/car-and-motorcycle
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Presumably there's no limit on the number of bikes you can scrap?
So buying up loads of rubbish at £500 a go could turn into a nice little earner :)
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Presumably there's no limit on the number of bikes you can scrap?
I'll assume your being humerous, there will be a limit per person and per househould.
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Presumably there's no limit on the number of bikes you can scrap?
So buying up loads of rubbish at £500 a go could turn into a nice little earner :)
You have to be on benefits, the bike has to have been registered in your name for, irc, 6 months, and you can only scrap one.
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I see Kahn is now proposing extending the scrappage scheme for 'hard working families' defined as those who claim child benefit. it's £1000 to scrap a motorbike. I'm probably going to send my Fazer on it's way via this route, might be an option for others.
Details end July: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/scrappage-schemes/car-and-motorcycle (https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/scrappage-schemes/car-and-motorcycle)
From my experience, all the scrappers want is the frame and logbook, some may want crankcases too. I stripped mine down (ER5) and sold off the bits, added another £600 to what I got off the scrappers, all for a bike which I would have been lucky to get £600 quid for. Paid for my Fazer.
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ULEZ - I feel sorry for the people this is hitting, it really is an unfair tax. The other day that it would appear that Khan has exempted certain religious minorities from the ULEZ charge when they are on their way to a place of worship. I couldn't believe it, but a little research later and it appears that this is the case!
Having done a bit more research, I discovered that there are nearly 4 million Muslims in this country and only 3.4 million motorcyclists!
So, who's in the foccing minority?
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Not so
https://fullfact.org/online/ulez-exemption-places-of-worship/ (https://fullfact.org/online/ulez-exemption-places-of-worship/)
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Not so
https://fullfact.org/online/ulez-exemption-places-of-worship/ (https://fullfact.org/online/ulez-exemption-places-of-worship/)
Correct just more bullshit social media crap spread by those who............. I'll leave it to others to finish the sentence with what they think.
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Thankyou for putting this info up - I stand corrected (and I'll pass the message along).
[/size]Cue - the resurrection of ratty, rotten, rusty Transit minibus's, with religious connections painted all over the bodywork :lol :lol :lol [/color]
[/size]Still feel sorry for you chaps though - along with Birmingham, Bristol & Bath, London won't be getting any of my money in it's economy.[/color]
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London wont be getting any of my money either. iam about About 15 miles outside the M25. Both my fazers fail to comply so i wont go there...Looking forward to the reduction in Road Tax as iam not alloud to use all the roads in the country :)
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Hi Mr.Red,
Only just noticed your post. Your thou should be ok if you pay for a CoC, which was around £70 in my case, as that bikes NOX figure is well below TfL’s threshold of 0.15. I think the big Fazer is 0.09, but then again only worth it if you’re a regular at the Ace for example.
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I see Kahn is now proposing extending the scrappage scheme for 'hard working families' defined as those who claim child benefit. it's £1000 to scrap a motorbike. I'm probably going to send my Fazer on it's way via this route
I would be extremely surprised if you get the full £1000 if at all. Whats the model/year/mileage of the fazer..?
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Got my 1994 Triumph Speed Triple through the ULEZ emission test today at Deptford. Doubt if they did anything as only took 10 minutes and didn’t see it tested, but all good just £175 lighter, although no pass no fee.
Details if anyone’s interested
The Test Centre
193-197 Edward Place
Deptford
SE8 5HD
0333 358 2666
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:thumbup and that's the carburettor model? Wondering if my 2004 fuel injection version would get through :rolleyes
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Yep, carb model. My pals 1200 HD Sportster got through as well. Give them a call, ask for Ian if he’s there, say what bike you’ve got and what are the chances of it passing. More than likely he’ll tell you over the phone.