Author Topic: [Resolved] Seeking error help: Will not start. Have possible error lights (Read 8722 times)

helloindustries · « **on:** 09 February 2015, 07:14:35 pm »

Resolved: Do not power wash your bike. Something was wet. Dried over night. Started first time this afternoon after spending some quality time drying out in a warm garage.

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Sure i submitted a post here... Anyway, let's try again...

Short version: Everything seems to work, but no spark in plugs.

Bike wont start (1998 5DM). I get a fuel and oil warning light when i hit the starter button.
I did a little jet washing earlier to get the winter goop off of it, spent some hours cleaning and painting etc. Looks great, goes nowhere.
Didn't go nuts with the water: No more than horizontal to the engine, all seems dry under the tank. Had to blast under the rear arch to get the caked gunk out, blasted around the swingarm etc.

Checks made so far:

In neutral
Kickstand connectors connected
Checked connector bundle under tank - all fine and dry
Checked battery - Good, dry
Checked fuses - Good, dry
Kill switch disengaged
Fuel in tank
Oil in engine (very recently changed)

So far, all that is certain is that the plugs aren't sparking. Even with a fresh plug. No spark.
Maybe it'll dry out whatever i've probably gotten wet overnight. Maybe i got a bit of water into the electronics under the rear fairing somehow (didn't have time to check there, but under the seat is dry etc)

Here's a quick mockup:

Help appreciated.
Probably getting look at professionally tomorrow, but would be nice to go in armed with likely causes which would drastically shorten time on bench.

darrsi · « **Reply #1 on:** 09 February 2015, 09:04:20 pm »

Learned never to jetwash an engine, water gets to places you wouldn't ever think of.
Probably just needs drying out and it will start eventually.
Good old bucket and sponge in the future.

helloindustries · « **Reply #2 on:** 09 February 2015, 09:36:25 pm »

Agreed.

I have little to no future fear of blasting the crap out of the swingarm etc, but the rest will be a nylon scrubbing brush and cleaning products/chemicals where needed, elbow grease, and then low-pressure (tap and hose) rinsing/wiping.

I could have done it without, and i could have just done the rear lower quarter (swingarm, shock area, wheel arch) with the jetwash. I think i only got carried away/careless because it was my own bike i was cleaning. When i occasionally do valeting work, i'm much more careful, methodical etc..

But hey. I'll find out what the problem is tomorrow if it isn't just a matter of drying out, which it'll do in the shop's garage tonight. Google didn't throw up any results either, but at least i have a very clean bike with freshly touched-up paint.

Not that it'll stay clean and nice for long in this weather...

darrsi · « **Reply #3 on:** 09 February 2015, 09:49:14 pm »

I especially learned what the power of water can do when I jet washed the engine before spraying it and it literally blasted the paintwork off.

helloindustries · « **Reply #4 on:** 09 February 2015, 10:11:45 pm »

Current research suggests at least part of my problem may be due to a potential issue with the connection between the main and starter relays (water/wire damage/connector damage or dirt etc).

Still unsure why the plugs aren't sparking.

I'm sure i'll be told why tomorrow, then duly and rightly mocked for power-washing the engine.

There are plus and minus points to having worked at the garage at which you get your bike fixed

Paulfzs · « **Reply #5 on:** 09 February 2015, 10:17:42 pm »

ive jetwashed all my bikes including my fazer with no issues :S

try the wires behind the left panel with the key hole for seat release, they're the main ones for the sparkings!

helloindustries · « **Reply #6 on:** 09 February 2015, 10:18:46 pm »

Quote from: Paulfzs on 09 February 2015, 10:17:42 pm

ive jetwashed all my bikes including my fazer with no issues :S

try the wires behind the left panel with the key hole for seat release, they're the main ones for the sparkings!

Indeed we did check. Nothing apparent.
Checked all connectors there.

Paulfzs · « **Reply #7 on:** 09 February 2015, 11:08:47 pm »

all lights are normal they go off once its started.

by check do you mean you took them out and replaced with a spare?
they can be broken even if you cant see it.

if still no spark it may need time to dry out hairdryer the wires...

check the coils with a voltmeter?
if no spark then check the wires going to coil for electric, if no electric then coils dead if no power check back further untill you reach the battery.

unplug the sidestand connector and bridge it just incase.

id place bets on let it dry out and it should be fine.

helloindustries · « **Reply #8 on:** 09 February 2015, 11:16:26 pm »

Quote from: Paulfzs on 09 February 2015, 11:08:47 pm

all lights are normal they go off once its started.

by check do you mean you took them out and replaced with a spare?
they can be broken even if you cant see it.

if still no spark it may need time to dry out hairdryer the wires...

check the coils with a voltmeter?
if no spark then check the wires going to coil for electric, if no electric then coils dead if no power check back further untill you reach the battery.

unplug the sidestand connector and bridge it just incase.

id place bets on let it dry out and it should be fine.

The fuses were checked with a meter and visually checked. All fine.
The ones in the main box and the one to the left (main, i think?) were the ones checked.

I imagine if a drying out doesn't fix it -which would be nice- i'll know why -or at least more- tomorrow.

unfazed · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 February 2015, 12:05:34 am »

Is this correct in my understanding of what you have done and what is happening?

You have bypassed the side stand switch,
The kill switch is on the run position
Engine in neutral

You press the starter button and the oil light and fuel low lights come on, but engine does not turn over.

If all the above is true?
Have you tried it with the clutch lever pulled in?

helloindustries · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 February 2015, 12:15:00 am »

Bypassed stand switches: Not at the switch, but the relay was bridged to activate the starter directly. Does that count?
Tried starting the bike with stands up/down clutch in/out and various combinations.
Kill switch properly set, tried toggled just in case.
Engine indeed in neutral, physically checked, put in to gear, rolled to confirm gear, back into neutral to confirm etc.
Attempted bump starts (no joy)
Attempted jump starts (no joy)
"You press the starter button and the oil light and fuel low lights come on, but engine does not turn over" this is the case - The starter does not activate when pressing the bar mounted control.
Condition plugs checked (also changed less than 1000 miles ago), good condition, do not need cleaning. Checked for spark against engine. No spark.
Checked for spark with a new plug. No spark.

Will report back tomorrow if failed/fixed etc so that there can be proper closure/continuation of the thread and for the benefit of search results.

Paulfzs · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 February 2015, 02:34:37 am »

red light coming on when trying to start only happens when the bikes in gear/killswitch engaged or stand down.

unfazed · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 February 2015, 08:33:23 am »

Explain how you bypassed the side stand switch.

The best method of bypassing the side stand switch is to disconnect the side stand switch plug under the right hand cover and bridge the Blue/Yellow wire and the Black/Yellow (this may be a black only wire) or earth the Blue/Yellow wire.

The Side stand switch supplies an earth to the Starter cut out relay and ECU (Ignitor). Without this earth the ECU will not fire and the cut out relay will not operate thus preventing the starter relay from operating. This condition allows the starter button to power the oil and fuel light and nothing else happens.

Frosties · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 February 2015, 09:45:11 am »

From all the checks you've done which are spot on imo - I reckon you've goosed the CDI because essentially it's no spark.

The starter motor may just need a slap with a rubber mallet. If you've had too much water into the starter then it can cause the same effect as the discs having a layer of rust in the morning after a wet ride and in essence partially seize (small air gaps inside).

There's one on Ebay below in link or maybe someone is near to you to try a swap over.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZS600-Fazer-CDI-99-01-/370459170567

Just my 2p fella.

darrsi · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 February 2015, 11:46:38 am »

Just remembered as well, the last time I jet washed my bike my air horn sounded like a strangled chicken for 3 days before it went back to normal due to water issues, that was using a fine spray rather than just a blast too.

fazersharp · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 February 2015, 11:54:40 am »

Quote

I jet washed my bike my air horn sounded like a strangled chicken for 3 days before it went back to normal

So now then rather than making the dozy pedestrian just do a funky dance they are now doing a "funky chicken dance"

Also my bike has never had anything wetter than a damp rag on it (go on then there you go do it - do it)

Paulfzs · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 February 2015, 03:35:13 pm »

Any updates?

helloindustries · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 February 2015, 03:39:59 pm »

Quote from: Paulfzs on 10 February 2015, 03:35:13 pm

Any updates?

Yes.

Just rode it home.

Started first time today. No idea what was wrong, but it was likely something which wasn't supposed to be wet.
At least it runs. At least it's clean.

And a gratuitous photo to celebrate:

fazersharp · « **Reply #18 on:** 10 February 2015, 04:34:12 pm »

Just a damp rag in future

helloindustries · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 February 2015, 04:45:18 pm »

Quote from: fazersharp on 10 February 2015, 04:34:12 pm

Just a damp rag in future

Indeed.

I usually just use some spray and a dish brush (for the worst of it, and not on bodywork) or a rag.
As i mentioned above: Easy to get carried away and/or careless with your own bike, i guess.

Nice to have it clean again, though. When i have a filthy bike, all i can think about it getting rid of it for something nicer. Now that it's clean, i can appreciate it again. Now looking forward to getting the nose fairing and contents on, sprayed to match, then getting some side fairing to seal the deal.

Also had to send my datatool alarm back as it was eating batteries, so this was a good opportunity to dig around inside the rear fairing.

fazersharp · « **Reply #20 on:** 10 February 2015, 05:44:16 pm »

A damp rag is easy for me to say in fairness because I dont ride in the wet and so it dont get that dirty

helloindustries · « **Reply #21 on:** 10 February 2015, 05:55:05 pm »

Quote from: fazersharp on 10 February 2015, 05:44:16 pm

A damp rag is easy for me to say in fairness because I dont ride in the wet and so it dont get that dirty

Also true.
I have little choice but to ride all year round. Only mode of transport etc...

I plan to buy a different bike next year, but also keep the Fazer as a winter bike. For the engine size; It's too good to let go. Especially since i paid so little for it and that it's so capable.

I don't plan to do a huge amount to it between now and then; Just sort out anything which needs it, get the fairing back on to sort out wind noise a bit, probably stick some Pilot Road 4s on it as i'll be commuting in all weather, and more grip and water-dispersal is always welcome.

Might even get some luggage for it.

Silverlegacy · « **Reply #22 on:** 10 February 2015, 06:15:36 pm »

Hi,
Can I ask what exhaust that is you have on there? I might treat my Fazer with a new one and as mines a black version I think it would look nice.
Also need one that's not overly loud as I use my bike all year and get up early for work so don't want anything that's going to wake the street.
Thanks

helloindustries · « **Reply #23 on:** 10 February 2015, 06:16:58 pm »

Quote from: Silverlegacy on 10 February 2015, 06:15:36 pm

Hi,
Can I ask what exhaust that is you have on there?

It's the standard can, wrapped in vinyl.

I'd like to get a Delkevic replacement at some point.

unfazed · « **Reply #24 on:** 10 February 2015, 08:12:02 pm »

I would suggest you pull all your connectors apart and check for corrosion, and treat them to something like WD40 especially those associated the the starting circuit as this is likely to happen again.

Your fault sounded like a problem with the side stand switch which is the connection I would check first.

Glad to see your back in working order. I have seen lots of negative comments about WD40 and electrical connection here recently, but I have been treating my bikes with it for years and never had electrical connections fail.