The Covid thread

[fazersharp]

It basically said that every person who has had the flu ever since then up to now has had a mutated version of that same virus.

It reminds me of this from war of the worlds (do Morgan freeman in your head )
From the moment the invaders arrived, breathed our air, ate and drank, they were doomed. They were undone, destroyed, after all of man's weapons and devices had failed, by the tiniest creatures that God in his wisdom put upon this earth. By the toll of a billion deaths, man had earned his immunity, his right to survive among this planet's infinite organisms. And that right is ours against all challenges. For neither do men live nor die in vain.

[Slaninar]

It basically said that every person who has had the flu ever since then up to now has had a mutated version of that same virus.

It reminds me of this from war of the worlds (do Morgan freeman in your head )
From the moment the invaders arrived, breathed our air, ate and drank, they were doomed. They were undone, destroyed, after all of man's weapons and devices had failed, by the tiniest creatures that God in his wisdom put upon this earth. By the toll of a billion deaths, man had earned his immunity, his right to survive among this planet's infinite organisms. And that right is ours against all challenges. For neither do men live nor die in vain.

Great book.


It could be argued that medicine, including vaccines, does make the human race less resilient - generally speaking.

[darrsi]

It basically said that every person who has had the flu ever since then up to now has had a mutated version of that same virus.

It reminds me of this from war of the worlds (do Morgan freeman in your head )
From the moment the invaders arrived, breathed our air, ate and drank, they were doomed. They were undone, destroyed, after all of man's weapons and devices had failed, by the tiniest creatures that God in his wisdom put upon this earth. By the toll of a billion deaths, man had earned his immunity, his right to survive among this planet's infinite organisms. And that right is ours against all challenges. For neither do men live nor die in vain.

Great book.


It could be argued that medicine, including vaccines, does make the human race less resilient - generally speaking.

That's a pretty poor argument. We would be in a very bad place at the very least without medicine.

[Slaninar]

It basically said that every person who has had the flu ever since then up to now has had a mutated version of that same virus.

It reminds me of this from war of the worlds (do Morgan freeman in your head )
From the moment the invaders arrived, breathed our air, ate and drank, they were doomed. They were undone, destroyed, after all of man's weapons and devices had failed, by the tiniest creatures that God in his wisdom put upon this earth. By the toll of a billion deaths, man had earned his immunity, his right to survive among this planet's infinite organisms. And that right is ours against all challenges. For neither do men live nor die in vain.

Great book.


It could be argued that medicine, including vaccines, does make the human race less resilient - generally speaking.

That's a pretty poor argument. We would be in a very bad place at the very least without medicine.

Depends on how you look at it.


Of course, I could be wrong - not a doctor, but my thinking is:


Say I can't have children, and use medicine with all those artificial... whatever it's called, to "make" 3, or 4 kids.
In that case, isn't the medicine actually helping distribute and prolong the life of genes with such a defect?


Same goes for many other defects.


I'm not arguing against the medicine, or science and tech. in general - just think that it's not 100% good, it has its cons and costs.


No other species on earth lives after it is no longer productive - but we do. And we all like to live as long as possible. Is that good, healthy and natural?

[fazersharp]

Anyone who has had kids will tell you that whilst they are crawling around they pick up everything they can find and put it in their mouth - slugs, mud - the cat - EVERYTHING. It seems to be a natural human instinct to acquire every kind of organism possible as soon as possible. Parents paranoid about sterilising all surfaces are doing more harm than good. (maybe not under a WW pandemic ) but in general before covid.
I think there is an argument that we can be "too clean" and have been for a while.       

[vinnyb]

  Be careful where you go with that, you're right what you say about some medical interventions weakening future generations genes. For example i can't see my hand in front of my face without my specs and had we had kids I dare say at least one of them would have been short sighted too. In our hunter gatherer days I dare say I would have starved to death so my genes wouldn't have affected the next generation. Humanity's  main weakness is compassion and where would we be without that, although it does seem somewhat lacking nowadays, we as a race don't like to see others suffering.  Eugenics in principle works to some extent but who would want to see it put into practice?  There are also many examples in the animal kingdom of living  past their productive life, many primates do and so do elephants.

[Slaninar]

  Be careful where you go with that, you're right what you say about some medical interventions weakening future generations genes. For example i can't see my hand in front of my face without my specs and had we had kids I dare say at least one of them would have been short sighted too. In our hunter gatherer days I dare say I would have starved to death so my genes wouldn't have affected the next generation. Humanity's  main weakness is compassion and where would we be without that, although it does seem somewhat lacking nowadays, we as a race don't like to see others suffering.  Eugenics in principle works to some extent but who would want to see it put into practice?  There are also many examples in the animal kingdom of living  past their productive life, many primates do and so do elephants.

I agree it's not simple.


Just pointing out the potential problems. I suppose all the previous civilizations thought they were the pinnacle of human progress, and the way human society should go. Yet, only when those civilizations are dead, we get to discuss what got to them, through history.


For our civilization: it's clear we are destroying the planet, and to me it seems people are getting a bit dumber - shorter attention spans, especially for the younger generations. Doesn't look too promising.
Not claiming I have any idea how to correct that - there are too many things to consider (practical, ethical, economical...).

[darrsi]

  Be careful where you go with that, you're right what you say about some medical interventions weakening future generations genes. For example i can't see my hand in front of my face without my specs and had we had kids I dare say at least one of them would have been short sighted too. In our hunter gatherer days I dare say I would have starved to death so my genes wouldn't have affected the next generation. Humanity's  main weakness is compassion and where would we be without that, although it does seem somewhat lacking nowadays, we as a race don't like to see others suffering.  Eugenics in principle works to some extent but who would want to see it put into practice?  There are also many examples in the animal kingdom of living  past their productive life, many primates do and so do elephants.

I agree it's not simple.


Just pointing out the potential problems. I suppose all the previous civilizations thought they were the pinnacle of human progress, and the way human society should go. Yet, only when those civilizations are dead, we get to discuss what got to them, through history.


For our civilization: it's clear we are destroying the planet, and to me it seems people are getting a bit dumber - shorter attention spans, especially for the younger generations. Doesn't look too promising.
Not claiming I have any idea how to correct that - there are too many things to consider (practical, ethical, economical...).

Recreational drugs are a big factor in the way people behave these days, it's a massive market and the supply is most definitely there for the demand.
And due to the recent snowflake generation getting their way there is a vastly different attitude towards discipline with younger people nowadays which has basically given them free reign to run riot, and why we have so much trouble on our streets.
When i was a kid we all had penknives for example, but i don't recall anyone ever using one as a weapon. There was a kid stabbed to death near me 2 days ago, with a CCTV video showing exactly what happened, and the attackers can only be described as savages.
But when people are caught doing wrong you then get the snowflake defence liars doing their best to make them look good in court and they get their result far too often, meaning the criminal tends to get preferential treatment over the victims.
The horrible reality about all of this is that there isn't really a fix either. Drugs are already illegal, and if you look at places like USA where the threat of really long jail time, unlike our paltry sentencing, still doesn't seem to affect the crime statistics then it all seems rather scary when you think how bad the future is going to be.     

[Slaninar]

  Be careful where you go with that, you're right what you say about some medical interventions weakening future generations genes. For example i can't see my hand in front of my face without my specs and had we had kids I dare say at least one of them would have been short sighted too. In our hunter gatherer days I dare say I would have starved to death so my genes wouldn't have affected the next generation. Humanity's  main weakness is compassion and where would we be without that, although it does seem somewhat lacking nowadays, we as a race don't like to see others suffering.  Eugenics in principle works to some extent but who would want to see it put into practice?  There are also many examples in the animal kingdom of living  past their productive life, many primates do and so do elephants.

I agree it's not simple.


Just pointing out the potential problems. I suppose all the previous civilizations thought they were the pinnacle of human progress, and the way human society should go. Yet, only when those civilizations are dead, we get to discuss what got to them, through history.


For our civilization: it's clear we are destroying the planet, and to me it seems people are getting a bit dumber - shorter attention spans, especially for the younger generations. Doesn't look too promising.
Not claiming I have any idea how to correct that - there are too many things to consider (practical, ethical, economical...).

Recreational drugs are a big factor in the way people behave these days, it's a massive market and the supply is most definitely there for the demand.
And due to the recent snowflake generation getting their way there is a vastly different attitude towards discipline with younger people nowadays which has basically given them free reign to run riot, and why we have so much trouble on our streets.
When i was a kid we all had penknives for example, but i don't recall anyone ever using one as a weapon. There was a kid stabbed to death near me 2 days ago, with a CCTV video showing exactly what happened, and the attackers can only be described as savages.
But when people are caught doing wrong you then get the snowflake defence liars doing their best to make them look good in court and they get their result far too often, meaning the criminal tends to get preferential treatment over the victims.
The horrible reality about all of this is that there isn't really a fix either. Drugs are already illegal, and if you look at places like USA where the threat of really long jail time, unlike our paltry sentencing, still doesn't seem to affect the crime statistics then it all seems rather scary when you think how bad the future is going to be.   

Fair points. The snowflake ones really struck a chord. A practical example:


Cyclist was passing close to a parked car. Driver opened the door, pushing the cyclist towards the middle of the lane - and making them fall off.
The cyclist then got run over by a bus that was coming up from behind - the bus driver had no time to react (and hadn't created enough room in case something like that happens).


My reaction:
"Stay out of the door zone, people, it can be dangerous. We can't really rely on all the drivers being careful."


Most people's reaction to that:
"You victim blaming biker hater!"

[agricola]

I suppose theres an argument that we have stopped evolving naturally as a species, by our interventions in medical science. Whos to say that we wouldnt have evolved natural defences against diseases in time. I certainly think that we are losing our self reliance.

[darrsi]

  Be careful where you go with that, you're right what you say about some medical interventions weakening future generations genes. For example i can't see my hand in front of my face without my specs and had we had kids I dare say at least one of them would have been short sighted too. In our hunter gatherer days I dare say I would have starved to death so my genes wouldn't have affected the next generation. Humanity's  main weakness is compassion and where would we be without that, although it does seem somewhat lacking nowadays, we as a race don't like to see others suffering.  Eugenics in principle works to some extent but who would want to see it put into practice?  There are also many examples in the animal kingdom of living  past their productive life, many primates do and so do elephants.

I agree it's not simple.


Just pointing out the potential problems. I suppose all the previous civilizations thought they were the pinnacle of human progress, and the way human society should go. Yet, only when those civilizations are dead, we get to discuss what got to them, through history.


For our civilization: it's clear we are destroying the planet, and to me it seems people are getting a bit dumber - shorter attention spans, especially for the younger generations. Doesn't look too promising.
Not claiming I have any idea how to correct that - there are too many things to consider (practical, ethical, economical...).

Recreational drugs are a big factor in the way people behave these days, it's a massive market and the supply is most definitely there for the demand.
And due to the recent snowflake generation getting their way there is a vastly different attitude towards discipline with younger people nowadays which has basically given them free reign to run riot, and why we have so much trouble on our streets.
When i was a kid we all had penknives for example, but i don't recall anyone ever using one as a weapon. There was a kid stabbed to death near me 2 days ago, with a CCTV video showing exactly what happened, and the attackers can only be described as savages.
But when people are caught doing wrong you then get the snowflake defence liars doing their best to make them look good in court and they get their result far too often, meaning the criminal tends to get preferential treatment over the victims.
The horrible reality about all of this is that there isn't really a fix either. Drugs are already illegal, and if you look at places like USA where the threat of really long jail time, unlike our paltry sentencing, still doesn't seem to affect the crime statistics then it all seems rather scary when you think how bad the future is going to be.   

Fair points. The snowflake ones really struck a chord. A practical example:


Cyclist was passing close to a parked car. Driver opened the door, pushing the cyclist towards the middle of the lane - and making them fall off.
The cyclist then got run over by a bus that was coming up from behind - the bus driver had no time to react (and hadn't created enough room in case something like that happens).


My reaction:
"Stay out of the door zone, people, it can be dangerous. We can't really rely on all the drivers being careful."


Most people's reaction to that:
"You victim blaming biker hater!"

Bus drivers never seem to have time to react to the red light system we have going on our streets either. Even though there's a green then an amber light beforehand.
Sounds like a Deathrace 2000 moment to me. 

[fazersharp]

and to me it seems people are getting a bit dumber - shorter attention spans, especially for the younger generations.

And that is exactly the way the world governments want it. That way you can be controlled and will obey and not ask questions and will believe everything we are told.Anyone who questions anything other than the prescribed narrative is labelled a conspiracy nut job and non plat-formed.
Sentients don't like to speak out -- because they are cleaver and know their funding will disappear if they don't follow the narrative they are supposed to.     
 

[mtread]

No other species on earth lives after it is no longer productive - but we do. And we all like to live as long as possible. Is that good, healthy and natural?

Most whale species do, as do elephants.

[darrsi]

and to me it seems people are getting a bit dumber - shorter attention spans, especially for the younger generations.

And that is exactly the way the world governments want it. That way you can be controlled and will obey and not ask questions and will believe everything we are told.Anyone who questions anything other than the prescribed narrative is labelled a conspiracy nut job and non plat-formed.
Sentients don't like to speak out -- because they are cleaver and know their funding will disappear if they don't follow the narrative they are supposed to.   

But some people simply are conspiracy theory nut jobs. Or just like to do the opposite of the norm, generally to be a deliberate pain in the arse and seek attention.

[fazersharp]

and to me it seems people are getting a bit dumber - shorter attention spans, especially for the younger generations.

And that is exactly the way the world governments want it. That way you can be controlled and will obey and not ask questions and will believe everything we are told.Anyone who questions anything other than the prescribed narrative is labelled a conspiracy nut job and non plat-formed.
Sentients don't like to speak out -- because they are cleaver and know their funding will disappear if they don't follow the narrative they are supposed to.   

But some people simply are conspiracy theory nut jobs. Or just like to do the opposite of the norm, generally to be a deliberate pain in the arse and seek attention.

Yes I think the whole conspiracy "thing" has become an industry. Books/ public talks at £40 a ticket its became entertainment.
I don't agree with the likes of facebook / twitter / the "MSM" being the arbiters of deciding who I am allowed to listen too. Most people (I hope ) are intelligent enough to decide for themselves if a person is a nut job. 

[Slaninar]

No other species on earth lives after it is no longer productive - but we do. And we all like to live as long as possible. Is that good, healthy and natural?

Most whale species do, as do elephants.

Don't know about the whales, but I see elephants with glasses and in wheel-chairs all the time...

[mtread]

Don't know about the whales, but I see elephants with glasses and in wheel-chairs all the time...

You need to stop taking the hallucinogenics 

[Grahamm]

Don't know about the whales, but I see elephants with glasses and in wheel-chairs all the time...

I don't know what you've been smoking, but can I get some of it...?! 

[fazersharp]

I have got a feeling they are going to abandon 2 jabs. The "Science" and data will, of course be amended to accomadate.

[darrsi]

I have got a feeling they are going to abandon 2 jabs. The "Science" and data will, of course be amended to accomadate.

You're not the first person i've heard suggest that.

[Grahamm]

BoJo ordered 340 million vaccines (about three times as many as we'd need!)

If he starts flogging them off before everyone gets a second jab, he's going to have a lot of *very* pissed off people asking questions.

[fazersharp]

We could give them to the EU -----but France and Germany don't want the Ox AZ  France has been saying the BRITISH vax basically does not work in over 65s and so wont give it out.
NEWS JUST IN TODAYFrance has now changed its mind based on "encouraging" preliminary results of a large-scale study on the impact of the vaccine on COVID-19 hospitalizations among the Scottish population.THE SCOTTISH population !!
 France couldn't bring themselves to say British. But instead stroking crooked krankies bonnet to keep her purring and wanting to leave the UK and join the EU.
   
 Or we could give them to poorer countries.

 Or keep the order but change the formula because we are going to need 4 different jab a year to keep up with mutations.

[BBROWN1664]

We could give them to the EU -----but France and Germany don't want the Ox AZ  France has been saying the BRITISH vax basically does not work in over 65s and so wont give it out.
NEWS JUST IN TODAYFrance has now changed its mind based on "encouraging" preliminary results of a large-scale study on the impact of the vaccine on COVID-19 hospitalizations among the Scottish population.THE SCOTTISH population !!
 France couldn't bring themselves to say British. But instead stroking crooked krankies bonnet to keep her purring and wanting to leave the UK and join the EU.
   
 Or we could give them to poorer countries.

 Or keep the order but change the formula because we are going to need 4 different jab a year to keep up with mutations.

France has now said the AZ one is OK for under 75's

[mtread]

We could give them to the EU -----but France and Germany don't want the Ox AZ  France has been saying the BRITISH vax basically does not work in over 65s and so wont give it out.NEWS JUST IN TODAYFrance has now changed its mind based on "encouraging" preliminary results of a large-scale study on the impact of the vaccine on COVID-19 hospitalizations among the Scottish population.THE SCOTTISH population !! France couldn't bring themselves to say British. But instead stroking crooked krankies bonnet to keep her purring and wanting to leave the UK and join the EU.

You seem to be straying into politics here tsk tsk


Anyway, just to correct you, France and Germany (and others) didn't say 'it didn't work'. They said the data was incomplete. Now perhaps the Scottish data is complete. As for Britain, Johnson can't even keep data on how many children he has, let alone count effective vaccine doses.
   I seem to have strayed into politics too.

[fazersharp]

We could give them to the EU -----but France and Germany don't want the Ox AZ  France has been saying the BRITISH vax basically does not work in over 65s and so wont give it out.NEWS JUST IN TODAYFrance has now changed its mind based on "encouraging" preliminary results of a large-scale study on the impact of the vaccine on COVID-19 hospitalizations among the Scottish population.THE SCOTTISH population !! France couldn't bring themselves to say British. But instead stroking crooked krankies bonnet to keep her purring and wanting to leave the UK and join the EU.

You seem to be straying into politics here tsk tsk


Anyway, just to correct you, France and Germany (and others) didn't say 'it didn't work'. They said the data was incomplete. Now perhaps the Scottish data is complete. As for Britain, Johnson can't even keep data on how many children he has, let alone count effective vaccine doses.
   I seem to have strayed into politics too.

I remind you of whos thread it is and my first post said this
MY POLL - MY RULES. NO NAME CALLING, STAY POLITE AND DON'T GIVE THE MODS AN EXCUSE TO CANCEL
So I am happy for it to stray into politics - after all Germany and France started it cause they are unhappy its a British success and they get their noses rubbed in it by just having the name Oxford 
Don't give a Sh1t how many kids Johnson has - totally irrelevant to the conversation. Correct France said "data was incomplete" but that was the same data we used to jab the over 80s first.
Again none of this France and Gremany Ox AZ refusal or 100s of thousands of unused Ox az going to waste in empty vaccine hubs because the likes of Merkel have said they wont have it in her arm. None of this is on the BBC or Sky news.