Date: 27-05-24  Time: 08:23 am

Author Topic: Jim'll fiddle it  (Read 18621 times)

Fazerider

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #25 on: 05 October 2012, 02:27:26 pm »
I have no difficulty in finding the allegations plausible... always thought he was a revolting old creep.
It's a shame the victims have only now found the courage to speak out, when it's too late, but given the attitudes of the time and the sheer force of the man's personality, it's understandable.
What puzzles me is that if the BBC was aware of allegations and rumours at the time, even if there was no substance to them, why didn't they protect St. Jimmy as well as these vulnerable kids by insisting on chaperones?


Rusty

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #26 on: 05 October 2012, 03:16:05 pm »
I think from the BBC's standpoint they wanted to protect an 'asset'. Damaging him would also be damaging to them, after all he was the Top of the Pop's frontman for years and must have represented a considerable investment. I'm going to say a very Un-PC thing here, but in good faith. Television is full gay people, and by the attitudes of the day homosexuals were often considered to be sexually deviant.


Given that, is it possible that even Saville's activity was known about and considered to be merely his own particular deviance?

jackojet

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #27 on: 05 October 2012, 04:27:59 pm »
What about Rod Hull ?
 
He got away with fisting a bird for years! :rolleyes :lol

Fazerider

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #28 on: 05 October 2012, 05:34:52 pm »
@Rusty. Yes, I guess they thought they were protecting an asset... I think they could have done that more effectively by making a rule that underage guests were never allowed in the dressing rooms of any performers unless they were accompanied by a BBC-designated responsible adult of the same gender. It would protect the kids, the "asset" against false accusations and the BBC against accusations of complicity and cover-ups. The most cunning of bullying, pervert superstars would find it hard to provide a valid argument against such a rule.


I'm not sure what your point is regarding homosexuality. Even in the 70's sex with children was illegal.
« Last Edit: 05 October 2012, 06:40:49 pm by Fazerider »

pitternator

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #29 on: 05 October 2012, 05:39:41 pm »
couple of things to consider to put this in context-
 
1. the 60s and 70s were a time when there was a constant string of groupies shagging all the popstars and DJs...to my mind we need to be sure some of this is not just slut groupies trying to cash in on this bandwagon. were they willing , or were they raped ??
 
2. he must have been feckin good at his work if he kept all this so quiet for so long.I still think its shameless bandwaggoning. Lets be honest , our media would  publish photographs of  Princess di with her head cut in half if they thought it would sell papers. How can we  be sure that any of this is true.
 
3. there are clear proven cases of unknown/ poor people to lie barefaced to gain notoriety ...look at sharon mathews...went on telly , crying , pleading with the world to bring her daughter back...she knew where she was all the time.Utter barefaced unashamed lying.
 
I would want  a much bigger proof of all this b4 I would condemn the bloke. he did an amazing amount for charity. I think its wrong until we know the full facts ( if that is ever possible)... he was an icon in my teens. :\

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #30 on: 05 October 2012, 06:35:25 pm »
Did you see the documentary Pitternator?

As Rantzen said "The jury is no longer out"



Rusty

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #31 on: 05 October 2012, 07:04:06 pm »
I'm not sure what your point is regarding homosexuality. Even in the 70's sex with children was illegal.


Just thinking out loud really. Until the 60's homosexuality was illegal too wasn't it? I just thought that perhaps BBC people didn't like to talk about such things, or perhaps even blocked out the rumours just as they might have done about gays. I wasn't there so can't know, but those that were there do and are saying nowt.

pitternator

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #32 on: 10 October 2012, 07:50:14 am »
VNA
None of us can corroborate any of these " victim" statements. Like I say ..sharon mathews lyed barefaced to all and sundry for her own aims. I can feel for anyone who has been genuinely abused , but in my op...its all one sided " evidence".Esther rantzen is also in an awkward position since she may well have known about these alleged occurrences, but said and did nothing. Almost an accomplice then , by aiding in any " cover up"??...Jeremy Vine asked her some quite awkward questions recently on radio2..
 
 
How would you react if someone you met 20 yrs ago said today you raped them ! ....go on, just what would you say and  do ??

fireblake

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #33 on: 10 October 2012, 08:12:57 am »
Now they are talking about John Peel too. So far only Freddie Starr is alive to argue back but he looks like he may peg it any time soon?


Gutted for John's family though?
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Streetbudgie

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #34 on: 10 October 2012, 01:03:15 pm »

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #35 on: 10 October 2012, 03:37:11 pm »
We shouldn't be making light of this, abuse is a very evil thing but the world was a different place 40 or 50 years ago, if a teacher inflicted the injuries I got as a 11 year old, when I got the cane,  they would go to jail for it now. Mind you it made sure you didn't do anything wrong or at least make sure you didn't get found out.


I agree we shouldn't make light of this but you cant compare sexual abuse to corporal punishment.
Yes the cane has been banned & if a teacher now uses it there would be an investigation. valid point that it was also a deterrent however that is a totally different thread.
 

 
How would you react if someone you met 20 yrs ago said today you raped them ! ....go on, just what would you say and  do ??

ok my wife was abused as a 10 year old and found out very recently that the abusers were abusing her sister at the same time.
 even 30+ years on I asked why they didn't report it to the police. the reply from both victims was that it would kill their parents to know what had happened to them by people that they trusted!!!
 
they have both become strong people but the "strength" (for want of a better word) of an abuser is that they know that they can instill fear into their victims by telling them that even if they were to tell then who would believe them!!
Even now the abuser stil has the upper hand knowing what effect reporting an incident this late on will have.
 
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Phil TK

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #36 on: 10 October 2012, 03:48:54 pm »
Until the 60's homosexuality was illegal too wasn't it? I just thought that perhaps BBC people didn't like to talk about such things, or perhaps even blocked out the rumours just as they might have done about gays. I wasn't there so can't know, but those that were there do and are saying nowt.

Read your own paragraph carefully. You've just turned a groundless speculation into a conspiracy theory.
 
 'those that were there do and are saying nowt'
 
Or perhaps it wasn't the case at all. Hence they are saying nowt
 

SteveH41

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #37 on: 11 October 2012, 07:16:25 am »
Gives Sky News something to bang on about for the next 6 months.

I'm more interested to see that bastard who killed the welsh kiddy hang from his bollocks until dead.

If Carlsberg did hangings...........................

pitternator

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #38 on: 11 October 2012, 07:41:30 am »
My issue is the almost hysterical way claims are now being made about someone who is dead, cannot answer to any allegation , has a incredible record of raising money for charity ( which so few people do these days), and now all that has been destroyed by the media. Take a step back and look at the process...its a witchhunt .Nobody can be safe if this indeed is how such matters are handled.Any claim, is the truth , guilty till proven innocent.
The latest " claim" is now he only raised millions for charity so he could abuse kids...am I the only one who feels uneasy at such ludicrous  speculation ?? FFs just who will be next ...??
 
At the end of all this..will we be any better off for it ???....just why didnt any of these adults come forward before his death ??...IMO by doing so now actually makes any investigation meaningless as he cant be brought to justice or any punishment if he was guilty.
 
I spose next  it will be war heroes were cowards, straight blokes were gay  etc...there could be no end to such claims...

Streetbudgie

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #39 on: 11 October 2012, 09:27:14 am »
My issue is the almost hysterical way claims are now being made about someone who is dead, cannot answer to any allegation , has a incredible record of raising money for charity ( which so few people do these days), and now all that has been destroyed by the media. Take a step back and look at the process...its a witchhunt

Take your point but I saw on the news that his own family have taken down his headstone (already mentioned that) but then smashed it up - sounds to me like they knew what he was up to but like a lot of others couldn't say anything because of his position.
 
Anyway for his own family to smash up his headstone is pretty damming don't you think?
 
Regarding so few people raising money for charity these days - Every week there's a stories in my local rag, on my intranet at work and in my local pub about charity events, individual and group efforts and all sorts of opportunites to raise money by doing a parachute jump, wing walk etc.
 
Even my local classic scooter club does charity ride outs.
 
I think there's lots of people doing lots of charity raising and volunteer work, they just don't shout about it and present themselves as a child lover on the TV while do so.

Streetbudgie

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #40 on: 11 October 2012, 09:32:07 am »
just why didnt any of these adults come forward before his death ??

Additional to the above, they did come forward, one girl who made such claims was declared 'a hysterical child with a dirty, perverted mind' and was commited to a Psychiatric Centre and held in isolation until she retracted the 'claim' and was declared cured of her mental illness.
 
I wonder why more didn't come forward.

pitternator

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #41 on: 11 October 2012, 05:08:22 pm »
I  mean when these people became adults. When any claim could have been reported to the police and it could have been properly investigated, as opposed to now , which is all just impossible to either prove or do anything with the " facts".
ref his family...well given the hysteria , would you want to be associated with the grave  in any way ...I feel they destroyed the headstone because it was impossible to use anymore. Its not an acknowledgement of his guilt.
 
I think we should all be concentrating with stuff we can do something about today , I think the whole issue is self defeating as just what more can be said and done??
 
I still find it hard to reconcile it all with a man who was a big figure in my childhood...and his charitable work was unprecedented . You cant compare it with local fundraising , which while obviously worthwhile and creditable, is nothing on the scale of what he raised.You know if it is true, its possible the biggest single shock in my life after deaths in my family...thats how I feel about it....why I feel the proof has to be certain...and can that be possible to achieve...?

Phil TK

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #42 on: 11 October 2012, 06:54:25 pm »

 I think we should all be concentrating with stuff we can do something about today , I think the whole issue is self defeating as just what more can be said and done??


I learned yesterday that one of my relatives ex-girlfiends complained about being groped by Savile at a charity event decades ago and no-one beleived her, she got in a hell of a state at the time apparently. At least now at last others have come forward she can expect a more sympathetic ear (and some apologies) when she gets a chance to talk about what was one of the nastiest events of her young life.

acid drop

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #43 on: 11 October 2012, 07:24:32 pm »
  Was Jimmy giving Rantzen one or two?????

fireblake

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #44 on: 11 October 2012, 11:10:55 pm »
I feel the same as Pitternator, a part of my childhood has been shocked the core. That's not to belittle the abuse suffered by all these young girl?
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Streetbudgie

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #45 on: 12 October 2012, 09:19:13 am »
I  mean when these people became adults. When any claim could have been reported to the police and it could have been properly investigated, as opposed to now , which is all just impossible to either prove or do anything with the " facts".
ref his family...well given the hysteria , would you want to be associated with the grave  in any way ...I feel they destroyed the headstone because it was impossible to use anymore. Its not an acknowledgement of his guilt.
 
I think we should all be concentrating with stuff we can do something about today , I think the whole issue is self defeating as just what more can be said and done??
 
I still find it hard to reconcile it all with a man who was a big figure in my childhood...and his charitable work was unprecedented . You cant compare it with local fundraising , which while obviously worthwhile and creditable, is nothing on the scale of what he raised.You know if it is true, its possible the biggest single shock in my life after deaths in my family...thats how I feel about it....why I feel the proof has to be certain...and can that be possible to achieve...?

That's a very honest post and I understand that this is affecting you on a personal level. However he was not a relative nor did you know him personally (I presume) and you must have been let down by people closer to you in the past, so why struggle to believe this when the evidence is gathering daily?
 
The reason people came foward now is simple - fear, he scared them as a child and scared them until they day he died and they knew he could hurt them no more.
 
I have to disagree about not being able to compare local fund raising with his efforts, most local fund raising is carried out by people who have to work for a living - JS did a radio show for a few hours a day and recorded one or two programmes a week.
 
He had a lot of spare time and people to drive him about to charity events and I think a lot of it was just turn up, show his face (which was now synonymous with charity fund raising), say something daft but supportive, wave a cigar about and bugger off.
 
A non famous employed person doing charity work has to commit a much higher ratio of their spare time to charity.
 
Also if you believe what is being written it appears he had his own agenda for going all over raising this money, at this stage it doesn't seem it was the heartfelt gesture we all thought it to be.
 
What is shocking me about the whole thing is the reaction by his family (this makes me think they knew something was wrong) and the BBC leeches like Rantzen saying but not saying they knew it was going on but could do nothing about it - bullshit, if I knew the King of England was a fiddler I would be shouting about it until someone heard me (as an adult, not a frightened child).

BBROWN1664

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #46 on: 12 October 2012, 09:26:13 am »
What is the point in the police investigation? He is dead ffs, its not like they are going to get a conviction out of it.
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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #47 on: 12 October 2012, 10:02:21 am »
Did you see the documentary Pitternator?

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #48 on: 12 October 2012, 11:13:54 am »
'What is the point in the police investigation? '

1. Try and prevent it happening again.
2. Find out if anyone still alive 'assisted'/had suspsicions/knew. And string them up :)
3. Closure? for the victims.

Certainly plenty of lessons to be learned, although most of them probably already have been since then.

Robbie8666

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Re: Jim'll fiddle it
« Reply #49 on: 12 October 2012, 01:25:28 pm »
taking this totally off thread and not belittling any previous comments or points of view / opinions on this matter but linked to his charity work .... Lance armstrong who is now looking like he may have been cheating raised half a billion dollars for cancer charity .... thats a lorra lorra cash!!!
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