Advice from the foc-u guitar fiends

[noggythenog]

as per my comment on Joebloggs post im really itching to get learning the guitar but i dont really know where to start......im not a die hard musical enthusiast so i appreciate allot of different stuff............i wouldnt be into thrash metal or anything im more into keeping it chilled and relaxed.........and heres the thing....ive got a real nice bass guitar...a hudson pb 9 performance bass, amp etc........i had a bass when i was a teenager & indie fever was going on so i kinda followed on from that but i just cant get enthusiastic enough to get into it.....bass is more of a support role and in hindsight id much prefer to be strumming away on an accoustic or learning some evil licks.


I dont really want to learn via one of those books....you know the type where you get a cd...they bore the shit outta me......i've got an old accoustic guitar up in the attic that i can get started on to see if i can prove worthy of something better, needs some strings and wont be that good but neither will i so it will do for now.


But whats the best way to start as in should i stick to either rhythym or lead..or can i mix it up while learning...........do i have to learn scales first or can i just learn the chords and crack on a bit.


Exup says i should learn the blues.......i like blues......but are there any other suggestions as styles or artists that i can look up.....im thinking shit like credence clear water revival and the usual famous stuff but there is undoubtedly a whole world of artists ive never even heard of considered. I actually like allot of sheryl crow stuff.


Is it a good idea to get some lessons.....i often wonder what the foc they can teach you and no ammount of lessons will make your fingers contorted properly like good old fashioned practice surely


Any other general suggestions




Im just really getting focced off with evening telly and i sit listening to it every night and getting pissed off while generally wasting time mooching various websites...."the thrill is gone " [size=78%]and im thinking why not get into the guitar instead, especially now in the winter when theres little else to get up to apart from get pissed........get pissed and play guitar sounds better.[/size]


Cheers


BBnog

[joebloggs]

If your looking for new music for ideas check these out, Dave Mathews and Tim Reynolds, this isn't my favorite track but what Reynolds does on one string halfway through blew me away
The band doesn't solely play acustic but when they do, well, it works for me

[darrsi]

I play a mean 'triangle' 

[fazersharp]

get pissed and play guitar sounds better.

I play a bit-------- emphasis on the bit part, and yes it sounds better with alcohol, once you learn a few chords and practice changing between them you don't really have to know much else to get a nice sound.
At least I think so --- but funny thing is when I start to play I hear the sound of doors slamming around the house !
I used to play the drums in a band in my youth - local bars / music joints - that kind of thing, would love to start playing again but that will have to wait until my lottery house.

[mickvp]

Nogg,

I've dabbled with guitar for about 10-15 years now (on and off).

I just started out with my big bros cheapo guitar. Never really learned chords or anything to begin with, I just picked a song I wanted to play (pink floyds "wish you were here" was the first song I learned), downloaded the tabs and then sat with it for a few weeks learning a bit at a time until it came together.

Over time my playing style has changed as I've gotten into different styles of music, I have moved away from lead/solo stuff into fingerpicking.

The latest song I have been trying to learn is called "classical gas".

In hindsight, with me playing more fingerpicking now, I really should have learned more chords at the beginning as you can basically fret a chord and get a few notes without moving your fretting hand. At first i was chasing every note but after I figured out the basic chords (and then barre chords) it came together.

The only advice I can really give is to think about the sort of stuff you want to be playing, that will sort of dictate which approach would be best for you. It is a rewarding hobby once you get to the stage where you can play a few tunes, and there are always new things to learn. Just remember there are no hard and fast rules, do whatever works for you, which might be different from what works for exup, or me etc.

[Hedgetrimmer]

I'm with Exupnut - blues is a great start point for learning. It is the basis for many types of music, and you can keep it very simple to start with and quickly be making music with just 3 chords.But if you've never picked up a guitar before, you will need basic open chords, and this should perhaps be your first move. Learn open A, C, D, E, G (major). Learn open A, D, E (minor). Just learning those and getting it so you can strum each chord cleanly will keep you busy for a while, while your fingertips toughen up a little.

Then move onto 7th chords - these are the basics for blues. Learn open A7, B7, C7, D7, E7, G7.

Next, I would get you strumming a simple 12-bar blues with A7, D7, E7. But get those open major and minor chords down first.

Mick's point about starting with a simple tune to learn is valid, but to begin here you really need someone to show you a tune. Guitar teachers are very useful; for one thing, when you've booked a session, you won't be finding excuses not to bother for that hour or so at least. They will also be able to see exactly what you're doing wrong a set you right, which online guides, books etc can't. But get those basic open chords down first - that's something you can learn by yourself.


Here's a great little site that may help - don't skip the basics! :


http://www.justinguitar.com


Free lessons. Has a beginner's course, is very well taught, and will get you a good way into your new journey. Good luck 

P.S. Practice is everything!

[dazza]

Noggy,  wouldn't it be much simpler if you got into the punk scene, none of them seemed to be able to play for shit and if the tv is pissing you off that much you can throw it through the window or smash the fuck out of it with the guitar.

[Exupnut]

Nog.....start with the blues mate......and as nick said get some basic chords down to get ur fingers movin.....after u learn the basic chords (there are only seven) a,b,c,d,e.,f,g.....learn the 7ths and then minors.....after a while u will find its is easier to learn new chords as ur hand builds strength and dexterity.  U r learning new motor skills mate and it will take some practice and lots of dedication. The guitarists biggest friend is..............repetition. So when the Mrs has left you and the dog starts shittin in your sidi,s and the kids think ur a Cnut you'll know your getting somewhere lol

Mickvp  fuck the mason williams version it's good but a bit borin.....learn this version.....took me a month to get it down and now I just need to up the tempo a little....that little e flat scale was tricky to fit in but got there in the end. There are some good chord runs that will test u (they did me) but although it will seem tough at first it feels great when u get em down :-)

http://youtu.be/XHmsVqKjqHk

[mickvp]

Aye that's the one exup, the Tommy Emmanuel one

http://youtu.be/S33tWZqXhnk

[bri h]

Noggy im not exactly a virtuoso but the only way to learn and improve is to pratice. set yourself a target of half an hour a day and you will soon be playing for a lot more when your fingers stop bleeding and it starts to actualy sound like music .

[noggythenog]

Thanks everyone so far for all the advice.....not being rude not replying in detail yet...the little yin has conjunctivitis & a chest infection..missus is working...im on my holidays (well meant to be) so its all hands to the pumps...otherwise known as.....me


Im gonna get out though...determined to get some strings & see if theres any little back shops selling decent music for inspiration.


Half hour per night sounds a good starting point, im up for it

[divrod]

I say learn a mixture, essentially licks that are fun will keep you interested.  Some nice short blues licks that lead into a bit of rythem are a good place to start. Personally I'm a visual learner. YouTube's your friend here.
Patients Is key.
I started with saying learn a mixture. That's because whilst scales are fairly boring as foc, they are the foundation to how chords are made, and later on you'll have a better knowledge and feel for what's gonna come next and you'll be more likely to be able to improvise and do whatever you feel like.
Wish I'd have learn't some basic theory and scales earlier.
Good to get ya hands moving how you want them to as well.
Hope that helps. PEACE!

[divrod]

Oh forgot to say actually learn music you like. You'll get much more of buzz learning say hey joe (if that's what your into) than greensleeves.

[Hedgetrimmer]

Oh forgot to say actually learn music you like. You'll get much more of buzz learning say hey joe (if that's what your into) than greensleeves.

This is good advice. But sometimes, if you've been playing for a while, you forget what it's like the first time you pick up a guitar. If it has rusty old strings on it, how do you change them? How do you tune it? How do you hold a pick (assuming you'll be flat picking rather than finger picking)? And never mind what do you start learning. Justin's site, above, will show you all this if you don't have a mate around who can get you started with this stuff.


Already, it looks like there's conflicting advice here, but not really. I still say get those open chords down. But this doesn't mean you can't try other things as well. Another thing to learn early on, is how to read guitar tab, which is essentially diagrams of the fretboard that show you exactly where to put your fingers on each string for any particular thing you are trying to learn, whether it be a chord or a whole tune. It's simple, and is one very useful tool if not figuring out from a video, or just by ear if a little more advanced.


So once you understand tab, then you can choose a tune you like, find the tab, find a video tutorial for it, and combine the two to learn how to play that tune. Mick's suggestion of Floyd's "Wish You Were Here" is a good one, nice and easy. "House of the Rising Sun" is good for learning to pick individual strings cleanly whilst fretting basic chords (arpeggios). A favourite tune with a simple one-line lick/riff and a couple of easy chords would help to keep you interested. Scales can come a bit later in my view, once you're comfortable with one or two basics, although they too can help with your picking and fretting practice - very boring running up and down them though, so do some other stuff to keep it enjoyable too.


So probably, have a few different things to be working on for a bit of variation, but you have to start somewhere, and, once the guitar is tuned and ready to play, those open chords would be the very first thing I would teach you if it was down to me.

[Exupnut]

Another very important thing to consider when beginning is the action on the guitar or how far the strings are from the fretboard. The further the distance the harder it will be to push down and play a clean sounding note/chord. This can and has put many people off because of the pain to ur fingertips. If u r serious about it u may want to take it to a guitar shop and have someone set it up so its easier to play. Once u have done this there will still be some discomfort but nothing like it would have been had u not. After a couple months u will develop calloused /harder fingertips and it won't be a problem.

[john roche]

I'll add a vote for justinguitar.com lots of good stuff for all levels.


Cheers


John

[noggythenog]

I knew yous geezers woukd pull it out the bag




Ive been flat out busy but its gonna be my general winter hobby hopefully.......already got the start of the 6 month welsh, warm, windy and rainy every day weather and being in the sticks there is foc all to do when the weather turns foul.


I did manage to get some strings....plus all the BB King music i need.....12 cd's worth ..


Plus the guitar shop would take my bass as part ex if i get good enough to justify a new one.

[NorthWestern]

first things first, you need to nail that rather impressive facial grimace.

[joebloggs]

first things first, you need to nail that rather impressive facial grimace.

And how to not follow through when your practicing............

[Hedgetrimmer]

I knew yous geezers woukd pull it out the bag




Ive been flat out busy but its gonna be my general winter hobby hopefully.......already got the start of the 6 month welsh, warm, windy and rainy every day weather and being in the sticks there is foc all to do when the weather turns foul.


I did manage to get some strings....plus all the BB King music i need.....12 cd's worth ..


Plus the guitar shop would take my bass as part ex if i get good enough to justify a new one.

Guitar is what I'm turning to now the best of the biking weather is over. My current learning project is this:

! No longer available

Bit out of my league really, but making good progress. I don't expect to be able to get it exactly right all through, but if I can get down a version that sounds good and captures the important bits of the theme, and the overall feel, I'll be content enough.



It's so easy to lose a couple of hours just getting involved in working something out and practicing; shit, I forgot that appointment/missed that tv program I really wanted to watch/forgot to go to work! 


B.B. King eh? Nice choice. Going to learn about the "B.B. King box" huh?    Also, he does some very tasteful, and occasionally pretty wild string bending (up to 2 whole tones), so don't expect to be able to master his style quickly. His vibrato is among the sweetest in the business too. Best B.B. King album in my view is "Live at the Regal" - a true classic.


You can probably find one or two of his licks on Justin's site - if not, that Justin fella's a fool    Good blues course on there too, have a look.


Afterthought: If that's the kind of blues you like, might be worth investing in a reasonable electric guitar. You'll have real trouble tackling that string bending stuff with 11 gauges on an acoustic when you're starting out. Still, you could maybe transpose some little slides in place of the more difficult bends. Kinda suspect that it'll be a while before you'll grasp any of this though.

[Exupnut]

Live at the Regal.....agreed ....prob one of the top ten blues albums of all time...I would include Clapton Unplugged and Born Under A Bad Sign by Albert King aswell.

[Hedgetrimmer]

Go on then, top 10 blues albums. Mine would have to include:


B.B. King - Live at the Regal
John Mayall's Bluesbreakers - with Eric Clapton, 1966
Stevie Ray Vaughan - Couldn't Stand the Weather
Buddy Guy - Damn Right I've Got The Blues
Alvin Youngblood Hart - Big Mama's Door (for acoustic blues)
If I had to include Albert King (not a favourite of mine), it'd be Live Wire/Blues Power; Live at the Fillmore.
Probably Muddy Waters with Johnny Winter, rerecording of the Mud's best known tunes.
Possibly The Fabulous Thunderbirds 1st album.




Hmmm, can't come up with any others right now, and this list wouldn't be everyone's definitive one, but includes some of my favourites that are up there for me.

[noggythenog]

I only just noticed exups retaliatory strike strap line.......ya bastad


At least my 2 cylinders got out on the road this year.......no point havin a big member if you dont use it




P.s...i know of tab nick...ive used it before with the bass.


My missus is classically trained....but shes shit at explaining things in noggy terms.......shes got 5k worth of euphonium up the attic.......what guitar could i get trading that in

[Hedgetrimmer]

I only just noticed exups retaliatory strike strap line.......ya bastad


At least my 2 cylinders got out on the road this year.......no point havin a big member if you dont use it




P.s...i know of tab nick...ive used it before with the bass.


My missus is classically trained....but shes shit at explaining things in noggy terms.......shes got 5k worth of euphonium up the attic.......what guitar could i get trading that in

So, lost two cylinders but gained two strings...I don't know if that leaves you better or worse off 

[Exupnut]

I only just noticed exups retaliatory strike strap line.......ya bastad


At least my 2 cylinders got out on the road this year.......no point havin a big member if you dont use it

Lol I spose....but I still racked 60k miles last year on the work bike......the signature was changed about 6 weeks ago mate....when I saw your windup lol....surprised u never saw it sooner.

GET UR GUITAR SET UP WITH LOW ACTION FRASER.....it will make it so much easier for you to learn.