Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial

General => General => Topic started by: dickturpin on 30 October 2011, 11:05:56 pm

Title: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: dickturpin on 30 October 2011, 11:05:56 pm: So who bothers with winter tyres on their cage? Or maybe some will say 'wouldn't be without them!'

Views???
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: Fazerider on 30 October 2011, 11:31:29 pm: After several years of slithering about on the cheapest rubber the local fitter had to offer, I decided to try some winter ones. Obviously I'm too much of a cheapskate to have a second set of wheels, so just plan to take it easy on the occasions when the car is needed during summer.
My verdict so far is to avoid like the plague... only had them fitted last Thursday and the bloody car wouldn't start the next day. :grumble
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: fazed600 on 31 October 2011, 12:11:49 am: Put summer tyres on and use it as an excuse not to go into work, if there is anything more than 2 snowflakes.

On a more serious note I am considering the same, but it really seems as if you need to be committed to winter tyres for snow and then change them in the spring for summer tyres. I don't think I can be arsed / afford to have a spare set of wheels & tyres knocking around waiting for the appropriate season.

Dunno if 'all season' tyres offer the best all round solution, or the worst of both worlds.

Unless someone can convince me otherwise I'm sticking to summer tyres and phoning in stranded.
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: paul.s on 31 October 2011, 06:49:05 am: just put some new tyres on me mrs winter car she wont get stuck with these bad boys on :D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/struv/2011_10272009france0187.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/struv/2011_10272009france0186.jpg)
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: goldfazer on 31 October 2011, 08:42:48 am: My boss had a set on his mini last winter and reckons they were great. I pondered but do so few miles it ain't worth it. Got a set of autosocks just in case.
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: Fazerider on 31 October 2011, 08:54:45 am: Quote from: goldfazer on 31 October 2011, 08:42:48 am
My boss had a set on his mini last winter and reckons they were great. I pondered but do so few miles it ain't worth it. Got a set of autosocks just in case.
My brother tried Autosocks and said they were astonishingly effective, but clear tarmac destroys them pretty much instantly... he risked a couple of gentle miles on them 'cos he couldn't be bothered to stop and they were torn to ribbons.
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: ZiggyCol on 31 October 2011, 10:00:04 am: We live at the bootom of a hill in an estate on the edge of town and it never gets gritted. 2 winters ago our car was stranded for over a week until a neighbour kindly towed us out with his Rangey and we then parked it at the top of the hill until the snow cleared.

Last year I invested in some snow socks and they are fantastic if used as advised i.e. in snow. The grip they provide is quite astonishing. Put them on - get clear - take them off. If you run for any length of time/speed on tarmac you will quickly destroy them. But they are very easy to put on/off unlike snow chains.

If your circumstances fit I can thouroughly recommend them.
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: richfzs on 31 October 2011, 05:28:16 pm: I bought winter tyres for the first time last winter. I run a BMW, with all the rear wheel drive entertainment that brings. I never had any bother, in all the snow & ice that last winter through at us. Whether it was forging new tracks through virgin snow, or driving over week old stuff that had been packed down to sheet ice - the car just did it, accelerate, corner, brake, whatever. I picked up a mate who owns a 4WD Audi, and he couldn't believe how poised my car was, compared to his running summer rubber. I've got Continentals "somethings", and can't fault them. They'll be going back on the car this weekend coming (as apparently they work better than summer rubber when the temp is less than 7 degress, altho I can't verify that!).

I do also have Autosocks, and as others have said, they do work really well, as long as you don't stray on tarmac. And thats their drawback, they are an emergency use thing, at least in this country where the chances are you'll be back on Tarmac the next day - they're on-off-on-off, with much scrabbling round feeding them round the tyres, getting dirtier/colder/wetter all the time. The winter rubber is always there, just waiting to flick a bogey at any snow that does come down.

Sure, with winter tyres, you might want a spare set of wheels, but you can also pay somebody like Kwik Fit (other tyre thiefs are available) to store them for you, if you don't have space at home.
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: robby boy on 31 October 2011, 09:18:58 pm: I fitted winter tyres to my car 2 years ago, took them off in the spring, fitted them again last year and again removed in the spring, will probably leave them on this spring and fit brand new ones next year. I use the tyre machine at work so it does not cost me anything, but it would add up if I was paying "slick fit" to fit and remove them. I have fitted Vredestein Quatrac "All Weather" tyres to my mates Passat and he says they give the best of both worlds.
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: locksmith on 01 November 2011, 04:40:04 pm: That reminds me I was going to look for some sort of snow chains for the van.
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: Slaninar on 01 November 2011, 05:19:07 pm: Got 4 second hand wheels for my mom's Punto for some 80 euros. Fitted winter tyres on them. Just change wheels in autumn/spring. Simple, quick, free.

Winter tyres are a must since she lives uphill - the car gets stuck with regular tyres. I'm also sure winter tyres are better for winter braking, cornering etc.
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: Kosmic Kartman on 01 November 2011, 07:59:04 pm: Mostly use the little 125 and get sideways or put the enduro wheels back on the KTM and get more sideways, but on ocassion when I have used the car I just press the 'W' (winter mode) button. This changes power delivery to the wheels.
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: goldfazer on 01 November 2011, 08:30:40 pm: 'This changes power delivery to the wheels.'

Does that help when your're braking?
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: Kosmic Kartman on 01 November 2011, 08:46:37 pm: Quote from: goldfazer on 01 November 2011, 08:30:40 pm
'This changes power delivery to the wheels.'

Does that help when your're braking?

ABS. Plus I always drive talking into account road conditions.
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: goldfazer on 01 November 2011, 09:02:56 pm: Trouble is, ABS is bad news in snow - too slippery for it to work properly!
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: richfzs on 01 November 2011, 09:06:54 pm: And ABS is feck all use, if the rubber isnt gripping anyway :eek
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: martynR on 02 November 2011, 10:44:22 am: For a FWD cars it should be enough to replace front with winter tyres, but for the RWD all four should be replaced.

Here is a tyre test from ADAC

http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/winterreifen/2009_Winterreifen_Test_205_55_R16.aspx?ComponentId=29880&SourcePageId=31821 (http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/winterreifen/2009_Winterreifen_Test_205_55_R16.aspx?ComponentId=29880&SourcePageId=31821)

If you use Google Chrome then it can be translated to English :)
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: BIG MAC on 02 November 2011, 11:56:21 am: I own a BMW 320dse and vote it the most treacherous thing on snow ever invented..However I took the Bridgestone Potenza runflats off it in the spring and put on Kumho Ecsta runflats...so far there is no appreciable difference except the sidewall construction allows for some flex which means the ride doesn't knock your fillings out...Maybe they will be better in snow...I am hoping however tgat we don't see much snow this year
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: richfzs on 02 November 2011, 04:38:25 pm: Trev, thats exactly the car I've got - as I said, absolutely no drama on the snow/ice last year, with winter tyres fitted :thumbup
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: karlo on 02 November 2011, 05:12:49 pm: I've run Cooper Discoverer STT's for a few years as well ;)
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: goldfazer on 02 November 2011, 08:55:47 pm: 'For a FWD cars it should be enough to replace front with winter tyres, but for the RWD all four should be replaced. '

Noooooo!!!! Probably unroadworthy, dangerous and no insurance.
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: Just Anne on 02 November 2011, 10:13:05 pm: I was wondering about this, last time my cooper S was at the stealers the chappie was raving about winter tyres to another customer. I'd not come across them in the UK before. Expensive though, are they really just good for snow and ice on the road or is there an advantage just in the cold and wet too?

Anne
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: richfzs on 02 November 2011, 10:36:50 pm: Anne,

yes, there is a benefit in the cold - summer rubber gets hard below 7degC, and starts to lose its performance. Its why plenty of Northern European countries mandate you run on winter tyres between Nov-Mar (approx), even Belgium, where they're not exactly a big snowfall country.
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: Slaninar on 03 November 2011, 05:22:13 am: Quote from: richfzs on 02 November 2011, 10:36:50 pm
Anne,

yes, there is a benefit in the cold - summer rubber gets hard below 7degC, and starts to lose its performance. Its why plenty of Northern European countries mandate you run on winter tyres between Nov-Mar (approx), even Belgium, where they're not exactly a big snowfall country.

What I've experienced is that summer tyres are a lot less gripy when it is cold - in both wet and dry conditions. This can be a difference between 10 and 13 meter stopping trail (hitting, or stopping just in time). All 4 winter tyres do great difference on braking and cornering when it's below 10 degrees Centigrade.

Expense is not too great - because when switching tyres they last about twice as long. Just get a spare set of wheels (rims) so you do not have to take tyres off to replace, just swap wheels - 30 minutes work. In my country it is mandatory to switch to winter tyres in November but I'd do it anyway.
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: richfzs on 03 November 2011, 04:01:00 pm: Quote from: Slaninar on 03 November 2011, 05:22:13 am

What I've experienced is that summer tyres are a lot less gripy when it is cold - in both wet and dry conditions. This can be a difference between 10 and 13 meter stopping trail (hitting, or stopping just in time). All 4 winter tyres do great difference on braking and cornering when it's below 10 degrees Centigrade.

Expense is not too great - because when switching tyres they last about twice as long. Just get a spare set of wheels (rims) so you do not have to take tyres off to replace, just swap wheels - 30 minutes work. In my country it is mandatory to switch to winter tyres in November but I'd do it anyway.

Exactly so, Slaninar! The expense question is one a lot of people raise, they don't seem to get that if you're wearing out one set of rubber, you're not using the other - so overall, there's no extra costs. Sure, there is some up front investment, in buying 4 new boots (and there's storage cost if you don't have the space at home), but that will be forgotten the first time you get home without drama when all around you are parked in the nearest ditch, and you don't have to make a claim on your insurance!
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: Just Anne on 03 November 2011, 06:29:19 pm: Thanks guys. Now next question is how do I store the wheels not in use? Is stacking them in the corner of the garage ok or do I have to disguise them as 'art' indoors?

Anne
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: richfzs on 03 November 2011, 06:54:42 pm: Ah, now that would be an ecumenical question!

Personally, mine are stacked in the corner of the garage - you may have different requirements, based on your thoughts and expected answers in your "Real Man" thread, and an equivalent "Real Woman" thread ;)
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: Just Anne on 03 November 2011, 07:09:53 pm: Well, at the risk of being thought of as a slightly 'odd' woman, I quite like tyres; there's something about the geometry of the tread that's rather pleasing to the eye. I'd probably bath them first but I can picture them in the lounge, might have to put a doily on top when my mum visits, she's always worried about these traits, I blame indoctrination by my brothers.

Anne
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: Slaninar on 03 November 2011, 07:21:36 pm: Just get a spare set of rims. Cheap, steel ones for winter tyres. Leave tyres on rims, slightly over inflated (2.2 bars instead of 2.0 if that's your car's spec). Keep away from direct sunlight and too much heat and they should be fine.

Not a single speeling mistake in this poost! Amaizing! :)
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: GringoRojo on 04 November 2011, 12:23:52 am: so is there any particular brand/model/make of tyre to look for?
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: martynR on 04 November 2011, 01:01:54 am: Quote from: GringoRojo on 04 November 2011, 12:23:52 am
so is there any particular brand/model/make of tyre to look for?

Yeah, many to choose from
Continental ContiWinterContact TS830 (http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/winterreifen/2011_195_65_R15_details.aspx?testId=104&recordId=2321)
,
Goodyear UltraGrip 8 (http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/winterreifen/2011_195_65_R15_details.aspx?testId=104&recordId=2322)
,
Dunlop SP Winter Sport 4D (http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/winterreifen/2011_195_65_R15_details.aspx?testId=104&recordId=2324)
,
Semperit Speed-Grip 2 (http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/winterreifen/2011_195_65_R15_details.aspx?testId=104&recordId=2323)
,
Pirelli Winter 190 Snowcontrol Serie 3 (http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/winterreifen/2011_195_65_R15_details.aspx?testId=104&recordId=2326)

In my country(Lithuania) it's compulsory to have winter tyres from November 1st until March 31st. The amount of snow we have would put UK to a standstill :rollin
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: paul.s on 04 November 2011, 06:34:38 am: the amount of snow we!! get puts the uk at a standstill :rolleyes (doesent take a lot) :lol
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: tomjimtom on 04 November 2011, 10:55:51 am: There would still be extra cost either in new set of wheels or having to pay for fitting twice a year :(

I'll just go into a ditch, claim the full amount I paid for the car and go buy a little off road bike, much more fun and you can pull it out of the ditch :)
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: dickturpin on 06 November 2011, 07:36:17 pm: Done it now....ordered some Avon Ice Touring so it probably won't snow now!!! :sun
Not the most expensive winter tyre out there but I'll see how they do.Will try to find some cheap
rims soon or they will go on the car's alloys. Lots of impressive footage on youtube if you search 'winter tyres'.
Living at the top of a hill it must be worth a go (spent one afternoon getting the cage home last year, only a hundred yards or so :grumble ). Anyone else looking check out 'mytyres' website, cheapest I could find.
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: richfzs on 06 November 2011, 08:19:53 pm: Good luck with mytyres, I tried to order from them last year, yes they were cheap, but pissed me around no end. Ended up cancelling the order (and bought through kwikfit, of all places).

Can't remember full details, but having selected to pay by credit card, they then got stroppy with me, because I hadn't done a bank transfer of the cash! Now why would I do that, when I chose the option on the website for CC payment... I think I came to the conclusion that they didnt actually have any stock (they wouldn;t confirm when I asked them) and were trying a stalling tactic. Told them to get fecked.
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: daveph on 06 November 2011, 08:58:20 pm: A bit late on this, but another vote for winter tyres. I got a set for our main car (mondeo) last winter. We live on the edge of the North York Moor, a mile up hill from the main road. We got in and out all the time. A neighbour has a company car and insisted his company changed it from an A6 to a Q5 (but it came on massive wide rims with summer tyres). The Q5 got in and out but following it it looked like bambi on ice, constantly fighting for grip.

Mondeo steel rims are quite cheap. The winter tyres and steel rims are on now.

I got Apollo Acelere Winter tyres (they, Apollo,are Indian but bought Verderstein a few years ago, so they are basically a basic rebadge Verderstein tyre). They are fine in the wet and not appreciably more noisy or any less efficient than the summer Continentals.

It will probably never snow again. :rolleyes

Dave
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: martynR on 06 November 2011, 10:55:30 pm: Winter tyres seem to be more expensive than their summer counterparts in a UK. That's probably due to low demand and short winter considering the mainland Europe. Although I would not consider any tyre make that is not known. And you get what you pay for :)
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: dickturpin on 06 November 2011, 11:10:56 pm: ''And you get what you pay for ''........on a good day!
Title: Re: Winter Tyres on the Cage
Post by: dickturpin on 09 November 2011, 07:22:39 pm: Tyres arrived today and service all good from 'mytyres' if anyone is thinking about it.
Can't comment on Rich's experience with them.

D