Date: 17-06-21  Time: 09:38 am

Author Topic: Hard to start when hot...  (Read 349 times)

Cagey_Thoughts

  • CBT Wobbler
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • - FJR 1300
    • View Profile
Hard to start when hot...
« on: 09 June 2021, 11:43:32 am »
Went out for a ... 'brisk'... ride yesterday.  Weather was really hot.  Stopped for fuel and the bike took a while and a little throttle to start again...   Rode ok afterwards.... bike seems a little 'flat' anyway because (I'm guessing) of the race can.  (Baffle in).  When I cleaned the bike afterwards the engine seemed hotter than normal around the cylinder head/cam cover at the spark plugs. (And this was around 15 mins after I had got home).
I'm thinking that the problem maybe one or another.. perm any combination..... Heat of the day... Plugs... Can.... Fuel mixture (Carbs have been rebuilt)... coils.... shit happens/deal with it..... Lol..... Any thoughts anyone???? (New battery BTW).

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,354
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300, X10
    • View Profile
Re: Hard to start when hot...
« Reply #1 on: 09 June 2021, 12:21:26 pm »
The fact the carbs have been rebuilt and assuming the bike run fine before whatever made you rebuild them?  I would suggest you start there first, air leaks, check the choke lever and the plungers on the carb bodies are fully returning it will only take one to give you the symptoms you've stated.  It could also be incorrectly set/fitted needles, diaphragms, jets and pilot screws and balance.  Failing that check the air filter intake and the filter it's self, if it's still there it could be a series of other issues, but the fact it's starting and running albeit not as it should rule out a lot of what you think it might be.

The race can will have no effect, Fazer are rich as standard and fitting one cleans up the low/mid range fuelling. 
Later

BBROWN1664

  • Administrator
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,731
  • Should get out more!
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • - Tiger 900i
    • View Profile
    • My website
Re: Hard to start when hot...
« Reply #2 on: 09 June 2021, 12:41:50 pm »
:agree

Another thing that may be relevant is the heat. Try turning the ignition on/off a few times before hitting the starter button to see what the fuel pump is doing - more than a click or two from the pump suggests fuel has evaporated or leaked from the carbs.

One final thought, how long ago did you have the tank lifted? Kinked breather hoses will allow you to run for several miles before the effort required by the pump is too much. Open the fuel cap and listen for a hiss next time it wont start. If it hiss's then look at the tank breather pipes.
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

Cagey_Thoughts

  • CBT Wobbler
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • - FJR 1300
    • View Profile
Re: Hard to start when hot...
« Reply #3 on: 09 June 2021, 01:46:04 pm »
Thanks Gnasher & BBBrown... Great advice.... I'll work through your suggestions....
The bike rebuild was started about 8 years ago... supposedly to ... one.. give it a refresh @ 38k miles.. new bearings etc... and secondly to protect it through winter commutes... powdercoating of aluminium parts etc.... I moved 7 times in those 8 years.. sometimes without a suitable work space... hence the delay.. LOL... Finished it last year, but the carbs had been laying around off the bike for that amount of time.. so I took the precaution to have them rebuilt... along with the calipers ... Retired now.. so the bike is only used for pleasure... :D :D :D  A couple of pics attached to show the results...

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,354
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300, X10
    • View Profile
Re: Hard to start when hot...
« Reply #4 on: 09 June 2021, 07:21:31 pm »
That's a lot of work, not to my taste I'm sorry to say but, if you like it that's all that matters.


The other thing you could check is the TPS although these don't go half as much as some would have you believe.  They fail mostly in my experience due to owners playing with them, that said they can a do fail.  Just doing a check via the rev counter will tell you it's working or not, better still is a resistance test.  If it's out don't move it until you've checked the hg draw on the carb. 
Later

Cagey_Thoughts

  • CBT Wobbler
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • - FJR 1300
    • View Profile
Re: Hard to start when hot...
« Reply #5 on: 10 June 2021, 10:11:38 am »
Thanks Gnasher... I'll hopefully get to have a look tomorrow and work through all the suggestions.....

That's a lot of work, not to my taste I'm sorry to say but, if you like it That's my baby... lol.... I've had the bike from new... My other bikes come and go.... But the Fazer will be with me forever... lol...

[fixed weird html issue - bkd.]
« Last Edit: 11 June 2021, 10:31:47 am by b1k3rdude »

darrsi

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,278
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Hard to start when hot...
« Reply #6 on: 10 June 2021, 10:12:51 pm »
And in MY experience, they fail, 3 of them to be precise. Not because I was tampering with them either, but most likely due to a combination of suffering extreme temperatures of heat and cold over the years, old age, and the simple fact that electronics can fail at any time anyway.
« Last Edit: 11 June 2021, 10:28:33 am by b1k3rdude »
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,354
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300, X10
    • View Profile
Re: Hard to start when hot...
« Reply #7 on: 10 June 2021, 11:11:06 pm »
And in MY experience, they fail, 3 of them to be precise.Not because I was tampering with them either, but most likely due to a combination of suffering extreme temperatures of heat and cold over the years, old age, and the simple fact that electronics can fail at any time anyway.
I've worked on 100s of Fazers over the years and still work on them regularly. Only 2 I've worked on have genuinely failed, those owners who thought they had failed or were told they failed by internet forum experts hadn't.  Nothing more than bad connections or damaged plugs/wires (repairable), cracked casing due to constant tinkering and over tightening, the latter causing most failures I've delt with. The Common denominator in your experience is you and your internet plagiarism and tinkering.

I'll make no apologies for correcting misleading or wrong technical advice, especially when it's going to put members through needless work or expense. i.e all iridium plugs sold on Ebay are crap, utter bollocks just your experience. 
« Last Edit: 11 June 2021, 10:29:26 am by b1k3rdude »
Later

b1k3rdude

  • Foc-u Helpful Foccer
  • Global Moderator
  • GP Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,063
    • Main bike:
      FZ1 Faired Gen2
    • - GSF 1250
    • View Profile
Re: Hard to start when hot...
« Reply #8 on: 11 June 2021, 10:30:42 am »
And, happy Friday morning.

I have cleaned up the thread and any more off-topic posts that aren't helpful to the Op will just get nuked.

fazersharp

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,815
  • 10 stone Racing Snake
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Hard to start when hot...
« Reply #9 on: 11 June 2021, 11:06:44 am »
Thanks Gnasher & BBBrown... Great advice.... I'll work through your suggestions....
The bike rebuild was started about 8 years ago... supposedly to ... one.. give it a refresh @ 38k miles.. new bearings etc... and secondly to protect it through winter commutes... powdercoating of aluminium parts etc.... I moved 7 times in those 8 years.. sometimes without a suitable work space... hence the delay.. LOL... Finished it last year, but the carbs had been laying around off the bike for that amount of time.. so I took the precaution to have them rebuilt... along with the calipers ... Retired now.. so the bike is only used for pleasure... :D :D :D  A couple of pics attached to show the results...
Bike looks great ( apart from it being Red ) I know that you have fitted the seat cowel as I had one for a while but whats going on at the back. 
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

Cagey_Thoughts

  • CBT Wobbler
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • - FJR 1300
    • View Profile
Re: Hard to start when hot...
« Reply #10 on: 11 June 2021, 02:18:09 pm »
Hi FazerSharp... Under the seat cowl the seat is cut away... bit like a Transit now.. :rollin :rollin :rollin  LOL... It clips underneath across the brace at the rear and I've fitted a lock which connects to a brace I concocted at the front of the cowl.. a bit Heath Robinson.. but it's worked for years... Along with the high level can (originally a LeoVince.... I was wearing through the original on the front lip) the seat cowl was one of the first mods to be done.
Deefer did his all in one rear end and did the spraying... and I've mounted integrated indicators to the rear lights... standard rear mudguard, but cut away around the old indicator mounts.... that's it really for the rear end...
Nearly forgot... I fitted an old tank bag that zips on and off to the cowl like an enduro back pack... it was just to throw a few bits in whilst I commuted.... not a fan of wearing a rucksack.... The base is just bolted to the cowl...
« Last Edit: 11 June 2021, 02:21:28 pm by Cagey_Thoughts »

unfazed

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,966
  • Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • - FZS1000 05-06, Serow 2000
    • View Profile
Re: Hard to start when hot...
« Reply #11 on: 11 June 2021, 03:28:46 pm »
Went out for a ... 'brisk'... ride yesterday.  Weather was really hot.  Stopped for fuel and the bike took a while and a little throttle to start again...   Rode ok afterwards.... bike seems a little 'flat' anyway because (I'm guessing) of the race can.  (Baffle in).  When I cleaned the bike afterwards the engine seemed hotter than normal around the cylinder head/cam cover at the spark plugs. (And this was around 15 mins after I had got home).
I'm thinking that the problem maybe one or another.. perm any combination..... Heat of the day... Plugs... Can.... Fuel mixture (Carbs have been rebuilt)... coils.... shit happens/deal with it..... Lol..... Any thoughts anyone???? (New battery BTW).
Could be the Pilot screws set incorrectly most set them to 2 turns out which make them run a bit lean but the Foxeye carbs are 2.5 turns out. I have come across it a few times. Fellows, including mechanics look up the Fzs600 manual but never check the supplementary section for the Foxeye

fazersharp

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,815
  • 10 stone Racing Snake
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Hard to start when hot...
« Reply #12 on: 11 June 2021, 03:34:36 pm »
Gotta say those indicators look dangerous to me. Unlesss I am mistaken, are they ones like those designed for the side of cars, inwhich case the reflecting surface is pointing in the wrong direction for the back - and half of them are buried in the cowel too. And I am sure they are too close to the break light. How do you get that through the MOT.
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

Cagey_Thoughts

  • CBT Wobbler
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • - FJR 1300
    • View Profile
Re: Hard to start when hot...
« Reply #13 on: 11 June 2021, 04:18:13 pm »
Thanks Unfazed.. I'll check..


THe bulbs on the indicators Fazersharp, are pointing outwards.. I just had to check now that you mentioned it... (I dont  think that they are car ones... I would have got them from somewhere like M&P.. (cant remember now.. lol.))... they have been on the bike since about 2007... never been a problem with MOT.. not even an advisory... they are quite defined in their operation and I think better that the integrated LEDs for clarity that you can buy.  Like I say.. never had a problem.. not even from the police...

b1k3rdude

  • Foc-u Helpful Foccer
  • Global Moderator
  • GP Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,063
    • Main bike:
      FZ1 Faired Gen2
    • - GSF 1250
    • View Profile
Re: Hard to start when hot...
« Reply #14 on: 12 June 2021, 10:47:56 am »
any more off-topic posts that aren't helpful to the Op will just get nuked.
Good morning.

Cagey_Thoughts

  • CBT Wobbler
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • - FJR 1300
    • View Profile
Re: Hard to start when hot...
« Reply #15 on: 16 June 2021, 09:43:15 pm »
Thanks everyone.. I worked through all your suggestions over the past 2 days...
I think that i found the answer.... Whilst doing a spanner check putting the bike back together i noticed that the expansion tank was empty.... no probs.. the tank was off anyway... took off the radiator cap and started filling it.... "blimey its taking a lot of mix".... as fast as I was filling.. it was peeing out of a hole (slit) in the pipe joining the radiator to the oil filter heater.... no wonder the engine was extremely hot when i got it home the other day... there was NO mix in the system at all !!!!!! All credit to the build quality that it didn't go pop at some stage out on the ride.... new hose from local bike shop....
will start it tomorrow just to see if anything has warped or blown..